Where to move batteries inside 23d. Upgrading to AGM batteries.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Eyeballs

Alright...I really appreciate all your suggestions. I guess it will come down to balancing my needs with cost and time.

Spectrum of choices.

Move batteries inside TT, upgrade to PD charger.
Pros: Easy DIY, cheaper, lowers tongue weight, aesthetically original without panels on top. Cons: Rely on generator for all charging needs

Upgrade to solar, leave batteries in box.
Pros: Boondocking freedom. Cons: Tongue weight not addressed.

Move Batteries inside TT, upgrade to Solar via AM Solar (thanks Lew)
Pros: Boondocking freedom, lower tongue weight. Cons: Higher cost, will need to find help but some DIY.


Go all out, Switz style...this sounds dreamy
Pros: Boondocking freedom with A/C, lower tongue weight. Cons: $$$$$, No way I'm tackling this DIY...trip to Oregon for AM solar install...?

Wish I had an AM solar around here.

So what will I do? PM Switz for some more details about his setup, spend a few more hours/days searching the forum, and finally post pics of whatever I end up doing.

Come on up to the beautiful Columbia River Gorge any time after mid June for a proper system installation. It's straight up I-84 and less than 12 hours.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by dkottum

If that were true we would never be able to go over a bump in the road because of the additional weight the g-force would apply to the hitch receiver. In actual use it's a mute point because we engage our weight distribution bars before releasing the tongue weight onto the hitch receiver, by raising the trailer tongue jack.

What I posted is based on what a hitch manufacturer told me. What is your source?

[dkottum]

Experience.

[rostam]

I'm sorry, I completely forgot that your "experience" overrides manufacturer's recommendations. My bad.

[m.hony]

Sometimes personal experience does override manufacturer's recommendations.


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[xrvr]

Otherwise how could all those undersized tv work on the road? Mfg recommendations are generally ignored, rightly or wrongly.

[tjdonahoe]

I sure wouldn't worry about 100 lbs, let alone 60 lbs, our stock batteries will last 3 days in the boonies before running out of power, time to go home anyway, save your money for another trip.....

[m.hony]

My personal experience overrides recommendations of Crain RV, Progressive Mfg. (maker of Equal-I-zer) and Jackson Center.
No more than 4 washers? It took 6.
Weight bars parallel to trailer tongue? Doesn't apply enough weight distribution or sway control. Had to go a little higher than parallel to get enough sway control.
I'm sure lots of folks have anecdotal little scenarios such as that.
What "they" recommended simply did not work well.
And maybe I have an "undersized tow vehicle", but I really don't think so-


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[rostam]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Sometimes personal experience does override manufacturer's recommendations.

I agree. But not in this case. Tongue weight is tongue weight. It does not change or go anywhere. What WDH does is to change the affect of tongue weight on axle weights. This is just physics. If your tongue weight is, say 800#, and your WDH gear weighs, say 200#, you need a receiver rated > 800#+200#.

Originally Posted by avionstream

Otherwise how could all those undersized tv work on the road? Mfg recommendations are generally ignored, rightly or wrongly.

As for undersized TV on the road, I am yet to see a sedan/minivan tow a large trailer in person. They are that rare. Based on posts in this forum, most users of such vehicles switch to a proper TV soon after. They have limited lifespan and limited usage (local trips, favorable terrain/temperature).

[switz]

There are many folks that tow larger Airstreams not using ½ ton, ¾ ton or 1 ton pickups. We saw a few at the International Rally in 2015.

The CAT scales coupled with weight distribution hitches and reinforced receivers allows many non-truck vehicles to tow.

We cut off the 1,200 pound rated factory receiver on the 2012 Dodge as there were a few failure reports of the welds and I knew the 2013 25FB International Serenity tongue weight was 1,175 pounds. We installed a CURT model 15049 rated at 2,550 pounds tongue weight and a 17,000 pound trailer. I knew that capacity would cover any Airstream trailer made.

Our 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI had a hitch reinforcement done at CanAm on the recall repaired factory receiver. When I towed the brand new 25FB home, the Cat scales reported all weights were within limits. After loading the 25FB for camping and having my wife also in thecae, those numbers were exceeded. Thus the truck acquisition.

The 2015 23D International Serenity loaded for camping and our gear inside the Mercedes crosses the CAT scales with adequate weight margins. That is the appropriate sized Airstream for my car.

[Fred L]

Eyeballs,
Did you ever figure out how to add AGM's and move them inside and back off the tongue?

[Boog]

Originally Posted by Eyeballs

Silver Hawk, Good point on weighing the trailer. It is on my to do list and see how that might determine where to put the batteries.

I’d like to know too, but he might have gotten frustrated with all the discussion about hitches (this is the only thread that he ever posted in). I was most interested to see if he ever found out the stock 23d weight curb side vs street side.

[Fred L]

Originally Posted by Boog

I’d like to know too, but he might have gotten frustrated with all the discussion about hitches (this is the only thread that he ever posted in). I was most interested to see if he ever found out the stock 23d weight curb side vs street side.

I was frustrated , can just imagine how he felt. Exactly the same here. Looking to get AGM and move them inside off the tongue, but not sure which side of the trailer to move them to. Also curious what the impact will be on hitch weight by moving them closer to the axle. Will take some weights.
Presume as mentioned, if we moved them to the back under the bed, it would lighten the tongue by more than the 140 ish lbs the two batteries weigh, since with the axles acting as a fulcrum, it would have to lighten the tongue even more than just removing the weight.
Expect AS built them this way to ensure it would take a lot to get the tongue under the safety level of 10%, so can appreciate that, but "if" my loaded trailer is 5000lbs (empty fresh water) and tongue weight is 800lbs, that's well more than needed for safe towing.

Just picked up the Sherline scale, but the trailer is still in storage at a warehouse an hour away. Hope to get a lot of weights done this year on a local truck scale and post in the 23D thread. May stop on the way back from storage to get the empty weight, but with propane and batteries and will see if can get the curb and street side weights.

Have been thinking of a way to get the curb and street side using the sherline scale, but haven't come up with that just yet..... Maybe mount it on a floor jack and turn the dial facing the side vs up ?

[switz]

Can not revert back to stock, but these are our 2015 23D International Serenity numbers after all modifications that included all of the solar controls and lithium battery (installed just in front of the street side wheel well) under the sofa and street side dinette seat with no loss of the stock storage and bed slide out still operational.

Camping Ready 23D my scales 9 May 2016 Full water and propane tanks

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2,609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

[Boog]

Originally Posted by switz

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2,609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

Thanks Switz, is the first number in your axle weights the left side - making the street side combined axle weight 2656 and the curbside weight 2479? Either way, that's pretty close to being balanced even after the battery move.

[switz]

The tongue weight is the front of the trailer looking down from above. So the left numbers in each row are street side and the right are curb side.

The Truma AquaGo comfort instant on water heater took about 50 pounds of weight off behind the curb side rear wheel as there is little water stored in the instant on water heater.

[Fred L]

So a considerable weighting advantage to the street side then.
If my calculations are correct:
2656 lbs Street, vs 2479 lbs Curb. Roughly 175 lbs heavier on the street side.

Adding back the 50lbs for a standard with water heater which most of us still have, so 125 lbs heavier on the street side.

A bit challenging for me to put AGMs on the curb side with the couch layout instead of the dinette, so will need to think this through.

Lou, any idea if your loading favors the street side, ie do you think this same factor of 125 lbs would apply unloaded?

When my trailer comes out of storage in several weeks, will do some weighing and post it here.