Battery to heavy?

[Pick]

Got a chance to snag some Dynasty UPS12-475FR 134 AH batterys. The Trojan I have in there now is 66 lbs. The Dynasty is 110 lbs I am concerned because the battery in my coach is at the rear of the trailer in a corner. Any thoughts?

[nickcrowhurst]

Mike, an extra 44 pounds at an estimated 10 feet behind the rear axle applies a static torque of 440 foot pounds, which will tend to bend the frame by the axle, although the monocoque body will help to resist this. As a comparison, my Dodge 3/4 ton Cummins diesel truck has a maximum torque of about that, IIRC. The dynamic instantaneous torque when hitting a bump in the road would be much higher. If I wanted to fit the battery, I would make every effort to try to place it over the axles, or at least in front of them. Just my intuitive feeling, for what it's worth. BTW, I'll call you soon, as we haven't met for a while, and I'd like to see your generator and its propane conversion.
Nick

[wahoonc]

Pick,
I am with Nick about getting that battery away from the rear area. I have been contemplating mine and trying to decide if I want to relocate the Univolt and battery(s) while I have it gutted. Actually the Univolt is getting replaced with something lighter and quieter. I really have to wonder about the engineers that placed that much weight that far to the rear...must have been out having a beer and the installation crew made the decision for them I know by 1978? they had moved them to the front of the trailer kind of behind the gaucho...a much better location from a weight distribution stand point.

Aaron

[87MH]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

...I know by 1978? they had moved them to the front of the trailer kind of behind the gaucho...

I can confirm that my '78 Sovereign (Birth date 8-8-77) had both the battery and the univolt between the front Gaucho and the front of the trailer. The Excella models for that year had two batteries mounted in the front - with an access door for each. The doors and batteries are mounted far to the left and right of centerline.

One thing to watch out for - the batteries were installed in plastic "boxes" which were accessible from the front hatch only - in my instance the plastic box had deteriorated, allowing rain and chilly breezes into the trailer, and allowing battery acid to boil over and attack the plywood floor of the trailer (not a good thing).

In order to get the battery (fumes and acid) out of the interior I mounted the battery on the outside tongue frame between the shell and the LPG tanks.

The univolt was mounted more or less centerline, just behind the front steel plate joning the frame and the shell.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Pick,
I am with Nick about getting that battery away from the rear area. I have been contemplating mine and trying to decide if I want to relocate the Univolt and battery(s) while I have it gutted. Actually the Univolt is getting replaced with something lighter and quieter. I really have to wonder about the engineers that placed that much weight that far to the rear...must have been out having a beer and the installation crew made the decision for them I know by 1978? they had moved them to the front of the trailer kind of behind the gaucho...a much better location from a weight distribution stand point.

Aaron

I would think that a 31 footer gives lots of options for where to put the batteries. In my 26 footer it or they will be at the forward edge of the front axel which is about the head of the center twin bed just tucking under the galley. Thinking of one 160 lb. 220AH unit well secured to the floor. Imagine that puppy bouncing around on dirts roads.

[Pick]

Only problem with relocating the battery, is the fact that all the wiring terminates at the Univolt. I could relocate the battery in the closet or under one of the twins, I would just need to come up with some bigger battery cables. Not sure what type of batteries these are. They are either gel or AGM.

[wahoonc]

Pick,
To me the cost of relocating the batteries, (longer cables, etc) would well outweigh the issue of the 70's vintage long trailers, rear separation, broken frames etc. I figure every pound that I can move forward of the axle is going to add longevity to my unit. I have a rear bath with all of the associated problems but that was my choice. I love the size of the rear bath and I love the 70's vintage long trailers.

Aaron

[Torii]

Originally Posted by Over59

I would think that a 31 footer gives lots of options for where to put the batteries. In my 26 footer it or they will be at the forward edge of the front axel which is about the head of the center twin bed just tucking under the galley. Thinking of one 160 lb. 220AH unit well secured to the floor. Imagine that puppy bouncing around on dirts roads.

Hey, thats what I've been thinking...

I have been thinking of putting a Lifeline GPL-8DA under the curbside twin snugged up next to the wheel well and right over the axles. It's a LARGE and HEAVY battery (162 Lbs ) but it will give me 255 amp hours. I will replace the univolt with a lighter intellivolt model (60 amp) to help offset the weight and also provide better charging...

I am still brain storming this idea so if anyone has any pointers on this setup it would be much appreciated. (for example, what gauge battery cables should I use) The new charger will only be about 4 or 5 feet from the batteries in the rear bath closet.

Now what will I do with the empty battery compartment...

-T

[lewster]

Originally Posted by T Man

Hey, thats what I've been thinking...

I have been thinking of putting a Lifeline GPL-8DA under the curbside twin snugged up next to the wheel well and right over the axles. It's a LARGE and HEAVY battery (162 Lbs ) but it will give me 255 amp hours. I will replace the univolt with a lighter intellivolt model (60 amp) to help offset the weight and also provide better charging...

I am still brain storming this idea so if anyone has any pointers on this setup it would be much appreciated. (for example, what gauge battery cables should I use) The new charger will only be about 4 or 5 feet from the batteries in the rear bath closet.
Comment/Question Text -
I have a V-3 Razr and would like to connect a wired mic/head set to it thru the mini USB port. I noticed that your new SLVR has such an adapter and that you offer a head set that will utilize this port. Please provide the part # and location where it can be purchased.



Thanks!
-T

T-Man,

If your going jumbo on the battery, I would consider using 2-6 volt golf cart batteries (4C) in series for 12 VDC total. They will give you 220 amps but double the capacity in hours of discharge, are way smaller than an 8D and much earier to handle. Most of the big MoHo manufacturers went away from the 4D and 8D sizes and went to banks of 6V golf cart type units. Thay also have a higher # of re-charges, will last longer and coupled with a WFCO 75 amp converter with integrated smart charge, give you one powerhouse of a charging center.

[DreamStreamr]

Pick,
We just completed a replacement battery install for our CCD22. While we don't have issues of longer trailer and cables we did face whether to place new battery on tongue or inside trailer. Ended up placing under the front bed near center-line of trailer and same distance to the terminal block the original installation was (on the tongue). We are really happy with the 305ah battery (24hr rate) we got from Interstate Battery -- it is a Concorde PVX-2580L, 165 pounds Absorbed Glass Mat. Leakproof, virtually gasproof, approved by FAA for in-cabin installation on aircraft, really neat. I put photos on this forum last week and would be happy to answer any questions if I can. I am still hunting a decent inexpensive digital voltmeter to install in our unit instead of using the idiot lights on the monitor panel.
Jim

[Pick]

DreamStreamr, would like to see those photo's! I am going to have to replace my Univolt. Last night, I checked the battery voltage, with the Univolt on. The meter was on AC, and it read 29 volts I guess the rectifiers are all shot.

[Torii]

Originally Posted by lewster

T-Man,

If your going jumbo on the battery, I would consider using 2-6 volt golf cart batteries (4C) in series for 12 VDC total. They will give you 220 amps but double the capacity in hours of discharge, are way smaller than an 8D and much earier to handle. Most of the big MoHo manufacturers went away from the 4D and 8D sizes and went to banks of 6V golf cart type units. Thay also have a higher # of re-charges, will last longer and coupled with a WFCO 75 amp converter with integrated smart charge, give you one powerhouse of a charging center.


[/size]

I've used Trojan six volt T-105s in the past and liked them but the factory battery compartment (rear corner) on my airstream will really only fit one group 24 battery and I do not want any additional tongue weight up front so I think I need to put the batteries inside the coach (near or on the axles)... thus the gassing becomes an issue. This is why I am looking AGM batteries

That said, I think the Trojans the best bang for your buck in terms of amp hours to dollars.

[rseagle]

Originally Posted by DreamStreamr

... it is a Concorde PVX-2580L, 165 pounds Absorbed Glass Mat.

Hi Jim,

That's a nice battery and a nice install. Lotsa Boondocking ahead for you and Deb. Do you have any favorite secluded spots to camp in NC? Do you have a generator to charge up your new battery?

Sorry we won't see you at Galax this summer. Hope you'll reconsider. Last year was so much fun!

[Over59]

Originally Posted by lewster

T-Man,

They will give you 220 amps but double the capacity in hours of discharge,

[/size]

Please explain this in terms of spec reading. Do I understand you to say two 220 amp 6 volts with give up more juice than two 110 amp 12 volt or one 220 amp 12 volt?

[DreamStreamr]

Yeah Pick, I think I figured out how to direct someone to my few little photos. If you left click on my forum name (at the left of my message) it will unfurl a set of menu choices, one of which is to view my pictures. I tried to explain how I built the rack and hold-downs in the captions. Not a great place to take pictures since I built this from under the bed platform instead of removing the plywood mattress platform. Worked out great. For now I check the battery reading with battery d/c'd from shore power and only phantom loads on it by reading at the post jack power wire (I remove the fuse and read the hot side to chassis).

Jim

[DreamStreamr]

Bob,
We bought a really nice 1kw Yamaha gasoline generator last year. Haven't needed it, might never. (darn it!) Very slow charge rate and not much power but should do great in a pinch. Coolest thing is how light (27 #) and how quiet (47 dB) and how gas-stingy (runs forever on 1 gallon). Really figure it is for when we start full-timing. Each thing we shop for has to meet the dual-purpose test -- cannot afford to carry very many single-purpose things, just like when we are backpacking.

Sorry to miss you guys at Galax. For any other readers who could go, Old Time Fiddlers Convention in Galax VA is one excellent outing and a wonderful rally. Great weather, phenom music, and tremendous collection of oddball campers in the infield. We loved it and would encourage anyone to try it.

Later,
Jim

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Over59

Please explain this in terms of spec reading. Do I understand you to say two 220 amp 6 volts with give up more juice than two 110 amp 12 volt or one 220 amp 12 volt?

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvbatteries.php

The specs from the lifeline web site:

Gp 24.............................80 Amp-hours.......................149 min. discharge
Gp 27............................100................. .....................189
4-C 6-volt......................220..................... .................492
4-D...............................210............... .......................390
8-D...............................255............... .......................475

As you can see, the 6V golf cart battery, using 2 in series, will give you more amp-hours and WAY more discharge capacity than any 2-GP 24 or Gp 27 combo and even more than the behemoth 4-D or 8-D batteries. Plus, they have much thicker plates and are rated for more charge/discharge cycles.

Remember, you add only the voltage when connecting in series (2 X 6+12V) but you add the amps when connecting in parallel (2 X 12= 12V) but double the amps. The 4-C's win either way!!!! This is why most major MoHo OEM's have switched the house batteries on the bugbusses to 6V combinations and don't use 4-D or 8-D any more.

[DreamStreamr]

The only advantage the 6v batteries provide is first cost. One 12v AGM weighs about the same, takes up about the same space, doesn't gas, won't leak, has greater discharge capacity (504 minutes) and higher amp hour rating (258 @ 24 hr rate) than two 6 volts. http://www.bitterrootsolar.com/battery/concorde.htm

Very expensive, $400 for Concorde PVX2580L, but longer life rating, trouble free, different shape may work better in some applications, same very thick plates as Trojans. I guess it really amounts to different strokes for different needs, eh?

[markdoane]

Lew,

Your numbers are right as far as they go, but keep in mind that the amp-hours and the minutes at 25 amps are at 6 volts for the 4C.

The 4C battery will put out 6V*25a=150Va for 492 minutes, whereas the 4D puts out 12V*25a=300Va for 390 minutes.

Without making adjustments for Peukert factor, the 4C is probably only good for 240 minutes at the same energy output level (Volt-amps) as the 4D battery.

[lewster]

Mark,

When you use 2-6Volts in series you should get about the full amp draw rating.

Dreamstreamr,

The 4-C golf cart batteries I was suggesting IS an AGM from Lifeline, so no gasing or other issues....just to clarify