Hello Airstream Doers and Dreamers (formerly T)

[slowmover]

On FE

For a lightweight, low CG, aero all Alu TT the function of weight is a stop/ go problem almost exclusively. The longer versions exert more drag and present more sail area

Now, unlike square boxes where wind forces pile up along the length, this type allows wind to pass over where a sort of vacuum is induced (and is much less strong thereby).

Yes, weight is a penalty but hardly so among this type. IOW not too much difference. It need not be concern as TV spec takes precedence for FE matters. Ergo some more weight/length won't change a monthly travel budget.

I can see where the thought of the shortest TT could mean parking it in places not usually thought of as RV spots. Etc. The OP should get the right one but the addition of a few feet won't likely change that either.

Potable water isn't always conveniently found. There is a current thread on Rv.net about not allowing a water thief to be used at some state/national parks. Etc. Transporting propane presents its own problems.

There are longer term workarounds for extended stays, but self-sufficiency is at the very heart of the matter of how to be independent for as long as possible. What are the reserves for a given consumption rate, etc? Alike to TV fuel range when towing. Let us consider extraordinary circumstances as when and not if. Prudence, examined.


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[TCwheels]

Originally Posted by BearScream

That brings up the question of TV for a FC20.

Maybe people with a Safari 20 or FC20 can post what vehicle they are towing with and how it has worked out?

Thanks,
Myles

2010 Lexus RX350 w/factory tow option, reinforced receiver (by CanAm), Eaz lift hitch, dual Husky anti-sway controls, PS3 brake controller. Tows very smoothly, no sway - even at speed in high winds - brakes VERY quickly, comfortable and easy to drive.

[subfan1]

We have a 08 Tahoe with tow package. Living in So Calif where we have to climb some steep mountain passes to get out on our travels, with 100F temps outside and 6 to 7 percent grades, I would not tow with anything less.
It just depends on where you live that would depend on what vehicle to use for towing. One size does not fit all


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[slowmover]

You can also use a Mini Cooper. Have a look at posts by Andrew T of Can Am Rv. Point would be that a 20 can be pulled by about anything.

What best suits solo duty may in this instance be ideal.

If set on a truck then, no, a bed cap is a trade off for space. Just keep it cab high. Or, an Aerolid. There is an increase in sail area with a standard topper.


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[BearScream]

Originally Posted by slowmover

On FE

For a lightweight, low CG, aero all Alu TT the function of weight is a stop/ go problem almost exclusively. The longer versions exert more drag and present more sail area

Now, unlike square boxes where wind forces pile up along the length, this type allows wind to pass over where a sort of vacuum is induced (and is much less strong thereby).

Yes, weight is a penalty but hardly so among this type. IOW not too much difference. It need not be concern as TV spec takes precedence for FE matters. Ergo some more weight/length won't change a monthly travel budget.

I can see where the thought of the shortest TT could mean parking it in places not usually thought of as RV spots. Etc. The OP should get the right one but the addition of a few feet won't likely change that either.

Potable water isn't always conveniently found. There is a current thread on Rv.net about not allowing a water thief to be used at some state/national parks. Etc. Transporting propane presents its own problems.

There are longer term workarounds for extended stays, but self-sufficiency is at the very heart of the matter of how to be independent for as long as possible. What are the reserves for a given consumption rate, etc? Alike to TV fuel range when towing. Let us consider extraordinary circumstances as when and not if. Prudence, examined.


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(Sorry for the response delay)

I guess the case for larger trailers autonomy trade-off to FE is not easy to dismiss. Your sig shows a 35' so you have the experience.

Agreed, independence is a desirable goal, to the point permitted by the technology. Someday we will all recycle our water, be entirely
self-powered and so on, but not yet. (Good practice for long interstellar trips ) but for now, there have to be pit stops. How often becomes the question. That is partly a function of tank sizes, partly usage rates. One is fixed initially, the other can vary with usage practices. That is my logic. But sure, I would rather a larger tank.

As I read it, propane will only become a burn rate problem in fairly cold weather.

I figure I would seek an RV park when I needed the services, electricity, dump, or even water. What I don't know is how easy it would be to find one when I need one without long travel.

Thanks for your input.

-Myles

[BearScream]

Set (on a truck) would be too strong a word for it Slowmover. I thought I needed a truck of a certain weight not to get wagged by the tail and manage rougher terrain in the West.. And for the storage -- I thought I would want a generator at some point down the line, along with extra water. The cap would also be added protection for that and other valuable items I might want to carry.

In Phil Caputo's book "The Longest Road," he kept two dogs in it.

.

[BearScream]

Thanks to those who posted their TV for a 20 footer.

-Myles

[Lily&Me]

The AllStays app is an excellent resource for campgrounds, propane, fuel, dump stations, WalMart , etc.

We have not had problems finding dump stations when we needed them, and you can always pull into a private campground, ask, pay a small fee, and dump/refill there.

We also like this public campgrounds website, which has everything, everywhere, and is very user-friendly.


www.uscampgrounds.info/


Maggie

[BearScream]

Thanks Maggie. Noted and saved.

[KJRitchie]

If you look at photos of a 23FB International vs 23FB Flying Cloud you get more kitchen counter space on the International because they install a round sink vs a rectangle double sink. This lends to more counter space on the International. The rear bath is very spacious compared to my 25fb and there seems to also be more wardrobe space too as the two closests in the 23fb are wider than the two in the 25fb and there is only 1 in the 20. The holding tanks are larger on the 23fb vs the 20 or 23d, 30 gallon grey. There is more overhead cabinets than my 25fb. I'm kinda wishing we went with a 23fb vs 25fb although I'd miss my 2 door fridge.

Kelvin

[BearScream]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

If you look at photos of a 23FB International vs 23FB Flying Cloud you get more kitchen counter space on the International because they install a round sink vs a rectangle double sink. This lends to more counter space on the International. The rear bath is very spacious compared to my 25fb and there seems to also be more wardrobe space too as the two closests in the 23fb are wider than the two in the 25fb and there is only 1 in the 20. The holding tanks are larger on the 23fb vs the 20 or 23d, 30 gallon grey. There is more overhead cabinets than my 25fb. I'm kinda wishing we went with a 23fb vs 25fb although I'd miss my 2 door fridge.

Kelvin

Because of posts like this, I took another look at the 23D. At the cost of 1000 lbs it had a 39 gal FW tank. I like the 23D over the 23FB for a single because it consumes less space for the dinette and bed areas and so more possibilities for a work area to fit in, maybe where the 23D lounge is. If I needed a dinette, I would want it at the pano window where one could eat and lounge with a view. But it is a lot of space and function for a single traveler, I feel. With the bed virtually fixed in function (although the Vinnick 19' 75 Anniversary model showed a modular sofa/bed idea, it was not standardized by AS).

As for the sink, I think it is a bit overdone. The double sink could well be single; a 2 burner gas stove would suffice (don't use a big oven), placed front to back rather than side to side, to free up a little counter. I wish AS allowed one to specify such things for the build so that customizing wasn't so compelling. One reason I like the galley in the 20. I can accept the 3-burner top with so much counter space.

The one-door fridge is a compromise for me too. I wish I could get rid of the tv on top and get a bigger 2 door on the 20! Same comment applies.

I guess, if a 23D came up with a great price, I would be very tempted, knowing what I have learned here.

Thanks Kelvin.

[TCwheels]

Originally Posted by BearScream

The one-door fridge is a compromise for me too. I wish I could get rid of the tv on top and get a bigger 2 door on the 20!

Agreed. I'd like to move the tv to the bedroom - it's already wired for second tv there - and install two door reefer...wonder if JC could do that conversion for me....?


WBCCI #7246
AIR #91367

[BearScream]

Just an idea TCwheels

.Is the dinette/bed partition strong enough to hold the tv bracket?.

If so it could be swung out for viewing from one side of the dinette, or back to the bed, if the pivoting arm permits.

Anyway worth checking with JC. [Jackson Ctr I finally realized]

[TCwheels]

That's a thought but we don't really watch tv until we're tucked in. The current position of the tv means you have to lay with your head on the opposite end from the LED reading lights if you want watch from the bed! I might just move the tv anyway and build a shallow shelf or cabinet in its place...

[Piggy Bank]

Just wondering if you perhaps looked at this in the classified?

2007 Airstream International CCD 22 - Louisiana

Model is a 22 with dual axels, desk, nice span of counter in the kitchen. Potential drawback in the wet bath, but it is larger that the one in the 16s. May be something to consider

[BearScream]

Originally Posted by Piggy Bank

Just wondering if you perhaps looked at this in the classified?

2007 Airstream International CCD 22 - Louisiana

Model is a 22 with dual axels, desk, nice span of counter in the kitchen. Potential drawback in the wet bath, but it is larger that the one in the 16s. May be something to consider

Really nice of you to point this one out, Piggy Bank.

With typical tunnel vision, I was only looking 13-21'

This seems to be in good shape, small dinette AND desk. Didn't think any AS ever did that (maybe a customization?). Also roomier with an extra couple of feet.

I had no idea a model like this ever existed. At first I thought it
patterned after a Sport 22, one battery, 20 lb LPG tanks, except for the front rock guards, some kind of wall covering, but it has differences. Unexpected design.

The only quibbles I would have are the wet bath and fixed bed. The bath would take some getting use to. It would be better for me if I had a sofa for lounging. Perhaps that is doable..

Odd this is a CCD signature design, so different it is from the eye appeal of the current one. A bit of vintage charm?

For its length, its a small extra weight (and extra fresh water) are a decent trade-off. Its asking price is about the same as a 2008 Safari 20 I saw at Colonial.

I just got off the phone with a well-known distant customizer on my 20' idea.
This one throws me a curve.

-Myles

[timhortons]

It's not customized.The desk is part of the design. I was told this is the first Christopher Dean International design, appearing in the 2004 model year, I think it may have disappeared with the redesign in 2008. It's a bright open design with the dinette, bed with the white laminates and bright primary colors and cabinetry good kitchen and a neat desk that you could get some stuff done. Big tanks and low weight for it's size(see below).

Apparently there's a problem with the frame strength on this design and it requires a known doable reinforcement though. The large wetbath with sink is another potential drawback. It shows wonderfully, and looks like it would be a good choice for a full timing single. I'd be curious to hear from anyone with experience with actually traveling with the 22.

You could tow this with a Minivan or good output 6 Cylinder Car properly set up.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by BearScream

Really nice of you to point this one out, Piggy Bank.

With typical tunnel vision, I was only looking 13-21'

This seems to be in good shape, small dinette AND desk. Didn't think any AS ever did that (maybe a customization?). Also roomier with an extra couple of feet.

I had no idea a model like this ever existed. At first I thought it
patterned after a Sport 22, one battery, 20 lb LPG tanks, except for the front rock guards, some kind of wall covering, but it has differences. Unexpected design.

The only quibbles I would have are the wet bath and fixed bed. The bath would take some getting use to. It would be better for me if I had a sofa for lounging. Perhaps that is doable..

Odd this is a CCD signature design, so different it is from the eye appeal of the current one. A bit of vintage charm?

For its length, its a small extra weight (and extra fresh water) are a decent trade-off. Its asking price is about the same as a 2008 Safari 20 I saw at Colonial.

I just got off the phone with a well-known distant customizer on my 20' idea.
This one throws me a curve.

-Myles

Desk was standard in this model. We have one and love it. Desk is great for computer work and ham radio (my passion) setups. We added a tankless hot water heater to assist in taking hotel showers. Have solar panel on roof, plus several extra antennae.

Wet bath takes some getting used to, but the main trick we use is to place both parts of the toilet seat in the vertical position to allow water a chance to run off quickly after a shower. The prevents a surprise at zero dark hundred when your wife's bladder wakes her. Don't ask why I know this....

An inexpensive shower wall squeege helps as well keeping it dry. I'm looking for duckboards to get my feet off the wet floor as well. As for the bed, the partner better at climbing out should sleep on the inside side--it's just easier to manage. This is the only really irritating part of this layout, IMHO.

In my opinion, this length tows nicely with a small truck like a Tacoma, especially with a ProPride hitch. I'm not sure I'd like it with a smaller vehicle YMMV.

[Lily&Me]

IMO....

I think the fixed bed would be a serious drawback over time, for a full timer.

You would not be towing this, just to sleep in it each night, but living in it. You will want someplace to sit.....and live. IMO.

The kitchen looks spacious, really, and a dinette plus a desk.....nice.

Just sayin'.


Maggie

[Wild Child]

Hello - After 15 years of dreaming we bought our 20'FC new from Colonial in NJ. So we are total newbies still learning the ropes and relying on the forum for valuable guidance. But wanted to chime in on how pleased we (husband & I) with the 20' unit and its layout.
For us, a wet bath was not an option we were interested in having, but we wanted the counter layout of the 20' - so that helped us when looking.
It also helped to sit in the different units at Colonial - they were terrific to deal with.
We tow with a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8. It tows pretty good - ave gas mileage has been around 12mpg. Hubbie can speak to this more in detail than I. Only drawback I see so far with this tv is we want to purchase a generator and can't store it in the back of the vehicle and having to figure adding it somehow next spring. I am sure the forum will help!
A word of caution when shopping used and buying private party - be sure the title is clear, that the seller is truly private party and not a "quasie" dealer working out a different state than the unit, that the seller isn't asking for money wired to their bank account, etc....don't ask how I know this. It's hard to be objective with stars in your eyes, as we had. After a few foiled purchasing attempts, that is how we ended up buying from Colonial, as we wanted a REAL dealer with a good track record. Just sayin' as we want to save you and perhaps other folks from the same crazy train ride we experienced!
Since we live in MA too- please feel free to get in touch. Good luck in the search!