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Old 04-30-2008, 10:08 PM   #183
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The welder and I got to looking at the outrigger material which is 5x1.75x.190 channel. This is big stuff. We decided to take this back to the steel supplier and replace it with something closer to an 1/8th inch material which would still be larger than the original material and much easier and faster to cut. And lighter.

We also decided to use the original A-frame and coupler which have now been cut out of the old frame and tacked right onto the new one. The A-frame, which is 4 inch tube, also has the forward most cross-member attached and the metal plate that lies behind the lower exterior skin and holds the 7-way connector.

The first photo shows how large the 5 inch channel actually is and you can see why it's probably too big for outrigger material. There is also a photo of the old frame with the A-frame removed. And various photos of the new framing! Moving right along!
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:35 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monocoque
Kip, I'm not familiar with these type screws and washers. What would be the advantage of using them in this case?
The countersunk washer prevents the screw head from pulling through the floor and distributes the load over a greater area. the screws are stronger then any screws bought at the big box stores and have a phillips head, with more threads per inch you would have more thread ingagement in a taped hole.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:05 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monocoque
The welder and I got to looking at the outrigger material which is 5x1.75x.190 channel. This is big stuff. We decided to take this back to the steel supplier and replace it with something closer to an 1/8th inch material which would still be larger than the original material and much easier and faster to cut. And lighter.

We also decided to use the original A-frame and coupler which have now been cut out of the old frame and tacked right onto the new one. The A-frame, which is 4 inch tube, also has the forward most cross-member attached and the metal plate that lies behind the lower exterior skin and holds the 7-way connector.

The first photo shows how large the 5 inch channel actually is and you can see why it's probably too big for outrigger material. There is also a photo of the old frame with the A-frame removed. And various photos of the new framing! Moving right along!
It's looking great, I'm surprised with how fast you and your welder are moving right now. Good news indeed.

I might have missed it somewhere back in the thread, but will you be making provisions for a spare-tire carrier, maybe mounted under the frame just behind the A-frame, or even directly on the A-frame behind the LPG bottle carrier? Seems like now is the perfect time to do so.

Anyway, great progress, keep it up!

-Marcus
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:01 PM   #186
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What about pop rivets?

I wonder if there is an appropriate type of pop rivet available that could be used for fastening down the flooring? I know that I have seen pop rivets with a large diameter head on them. Wouldn't there be some type that would work for this purpose?

Malcolm
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:11 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by malconium
I wonder if there is an appropriate type of pop rivet available that could be used for fastening down the flooring? I know that I have seen pop rivets with a large diameter head on them. Wouldn't there be some type that would work for this purpose?

Malcolm
I'm not sure I follow? The flooring outside the wall-channel will be held with the original type self-tapping screws. Yes? No problem there. Part of this discussion, on the other hand, has been about how to use elevator type bolts through the wall-channel above the tubing without access inside the tubing. Kip's idea to use higher quality screws through a pre-tapped hole sounds pretty good to me. Where or how might pop rivets be appropriate? Doesn't sound very strong?
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:15 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by utee94
It's looking great, I'm surprised with how fast you and your welder are moving right now. Good news indeed.

I might have missed it somewhere back in the thread, but will you be making provisions for a spare-tire carrier, maybe mounted under the frame just behind the A-frame, or even directly on the A-frame behind the LPG bottle carrier? Seems like now is the perfect time to do so.

Anyway, great progress, keep it up!

-Marcus
Thanks! Yes, this project is moving quicker than I planned. I hadn't thought about the spare tire carrier. It had been removed from my trailer so I don't have a pattern. I assume I could purchase one of these or fabricate from an existing pattern.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:32 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
I wonder if there is an appropriate type of pop rivet available that could be used for fastening down the flooring? I know that I have seen pop rivets with a large diameter head on them. Wouldn't there be some type that would work for this purpose?

Malcolm
"Pop" style rivets are available in many sizes and styles. Steel blind fasteners of the size required also require a big phnumatic rivet puller, not the type used to pull olympic rivets and such. They also cost big money.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:36 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by monocoque
Thanks! Yes, this project is moving quicker than I planned. I hadn't thought about the spare tire carrier. It had been removed from my trailer so I don't have a pattern. I assume I could purchase one of these or fabricate from an existing pattern.
I can send you a picture of mine later if you're interested. The carrier is removed from my GT right now and just sitting in the basement.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:48 PM   #191
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I can send you a picture of mine later if you're interested. The carrier is removed from my GT right now and just sitting in the basement.
Please do! I'm sure the welder would be thrilled to have another task tacked onto the job. Post 'em here if you like. I'm sure there are others who are interested as well.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:55 PM   #192
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Whoo Hooo - Great Thread! It will be great to keep another Ambassador on the road - keep the updates coming.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:45 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monocoque
I'm not sure I follow? The flooring outside the wall-channel will be held with the original type self-tapping screws. Yes? No problem there. Part of this discussion, on the other hand, has been about how to use elevator type bolts through the wall-channel above the tubing without access inside the tubing. Kip's idea to use higher quality screws through a pre-tapped hole sounds pretty good to me. Where or how might pop rivets be appropriate? Doesn't sound very strong?
I too am using the tap and bolt method. If that makes you feel more comfortable. I will also put sealant over the screw. This should help "lock" the screws addition to the lock tite.

On the outside achors, the ones through the channel holding the pan and walls, I will probably use a bolt and nut.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:48 PM   #194
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5" tube and 4" channel cross-members

Here you can see the rear most cross-member and other cross-members fabricated out of 5" tube. The shorter cross-members which occur at the floor-splices are fabricated out of 4 inch channel. So the floor splices will need to be out of 1" plywood or some other 1" material.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:30 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Aerowood
"Pop" style rivets are available in many sizes and styles. Steel blind fasteners of the size required also require a big phnumatic rivet puller, not the type used to pull olympic rivets and such. They also cost big money.
I think my Harbor Freight pneumatic rivet puller can go up to a 1/4" diameter blind rivet. Would something larger than that be needed?

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Old 05-01-2008, 09:43 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by monocoque
I'm not sure I follow? The flooring outside the wall-channel will be held with the original type self-tapping screws. Yes? No problem there. Part of this discussion, on the other hand, has been about how to use elevator type bolts through the wall-channel above the tubing without access inside the tubing. Kip's idea to use higher quality screws through a pre-tapped hole sounds pretty good to me. Where or how might pop rivets be appropriate? Doesn't sound very strong?
If you trust self-taping screws to work out in the middle of the floor why wouldn't you trust them to work in the areas where you can not use a bolt with a nut on the bottom? I remember when I took my '73 apart being quite suprised that there wern't any bolts attaching the body to the ends of the outriggers. I also remember just how tight the larger size self taping screws grabbed when I used them in some places on my job.

Blind rivets (or pop-rivets) are another type of fastener that does not require access to the bottom of the frame member. I would be very suprised if steel pop rivets in the range of 1/4" diameter would not have plenty of strength for the job but I defer to someone more familiar with rivet strengths on that issue. It would also be easy to double up on the quantity too.

Lets not lose site of the fact that our Airstreams are not going to flying through the air like an airplane. While the attachements need to be strong enough there is a point beyond which the attachments are way overkill. Just maybe we have passed into that zone with some of our suggestions.

Malcolm
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