'72 Ambassador makeover

[Aerowood]

I like the double stack overhead cabinets but curious about how far they protrude. Would a tall person hit his head on the upper most cabinet while working on the counter?

[SuzyHomemakr]

Aerowood, I've been banging my head against the wall to solve that problem! The cabinet closest to the door houses an overhead vent that I don't want to move. I'll make that cabinet as close as possible to that, and move the new range top out as far as I can. The end cabinet is basically flush to the edge of the countertop, so it could be a head banger. The middle one is recessed, so all of the cooking/cleaning work will be done in that middle position. It'll be just big enough to house the stereo with the auxiliary TV screen.

Proportions will probably change when I get to mock-up stage.

[albert]

Based on your great choices, I too bought new marker lights for the front and back, BUT, Seeing that the new marker hot wire has a large connector on it AND that it is a sealed casing, HOW did you hide the wire? Did you cut off the connector and slice the two wires?
Did you stuff it back inside the skin of the trailer? Or did you just press it under the foam backing for the marker?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr

For those of you contemplating replacing your light fixture over the door, I detailed my experiences as a product review at Vintage Trailer in the Home > Major Systems & Appliances > Electrical > Lights - Exterior > section. It's not a bolt-in replacement, but can work out well if care and painstaking modification is used. Just knowing that the light is switched by the ground leg before I started would have trimmed out a good deal of troubleshooting time!

My rear markers, per request. They are Maxxima M23015R Red 4" Combination Clearance Marker Lights, available on Amazon. Much brighter than the old double-bullseyes, nice and sealed up, too. The old fixture looked like it came out of a Cracker Jax box. Someone had neglected to actually hook up two of the markers, so I ran a new wire with the help of a trusty coathanger. Soon as it's dry out, I'll Vulkem them into place.

[SuzyHomemakr]

Originally Posted by albert

Based on your great choices, I too bought new marker lights for the front and back, BUT, Seeing that the new marker hot wire has a large connector on it AND that it is a sealed casing, HOW did you hide the wire? Did you cut off the connector and slice the two wires?
Did you stuff it back inside the skin of the trailer? Or did you just press it under the foam backing for the marker?
Thanks!

Because I had to run new wires, I made a 1" square hole in the skin under the fixtures. This was done with a metal cutting disc on my Dremel tool, which seems to be getting lots of use lately during the demo. I clipped off the bullet connector and used a butt connector to gang up the two wires, then connected it to the light. I tucked in the connector, and as much of the wire as I could stuff in, ran a bead of Trempro, and screwed it in. Seems to seal up just fine!

[albert]

Thank you, that sounds perfect for me too, even though I don't need to run new wire, I do need a bigger hole for all that wire. Can I ask what type of screw you used? What's best for alum to metal contact? I was thinking of using rivets but I think they won't be long enough for the marker.

[SuzyHomemakr]

Yesterday I went up to Riviera Beach, and bought some cool plywood from World Panel Products. They have an amazing plywood called Eurolite, which weighs about 1/3 of conventional ply. It's European Poplar, which is very light in color and has some interesting figure to it. Josh was very helpful, and let me paw through a number of sheets to find the ones that I liked.

That warehouse is amazing, completely filled with beautiful teak dimensional lumber. The owner travels to Myanmar a few times a year to set up the shipments. I really love teak, but the conflict and environmental degradation involved (OK, and the unbelievable price!) have put it off the table.

I was up in the air about what the main wood for cabinetry and bulkheads would would be, so this decided me. I'll do some stain and finish tests today so that I can live with the results for a bit before fully committing. World Panel was out of dimensional poplar, but I found a great substitute, aspen wood at the local Lowe's.

Plywood is a fantastic material to work with, but looking at the raw edges sure sucks! As I also want to have many sexy curves in the construction, the aspen will come in handy to cut and form all of the exposed edges.

Many moons ago, I constructed a strip-built kayak, and marveled at the methodology. Using 3/4" X 1/4" strips, with a cove-and-bead detail (a 1/2 round bulge on one edge, and the matching curve on the other edge), you could make a beautifully curved kayak. So that's how I plan to get some of the wilder curves in the Airstream built. I'll form the strips into curves, glue the edges together, then epoxy glass the backside for strength. Speaking of which...

[Lance M]

Hi and welcome to the forums.
Wow! That is some nice planning you have going on there. You certainly are a master of rendering a plan. Nice layout. I have a fondness for '72 Ambassadors. Yours looks to be in pretty good shape.
Since you are in the process of removing the original interior, I was wondering how the sub-floor looks under the bath and under all the windows. I may have missed you mention it, but the structural integrity of the frame, sub-floor and shell are critical. I have not seen a 70s era Airstream that wasn't parked inside its whole life without the rear sub-floor rotted out. The common problems with the 70s era trailers are rotten/rotted sub-floor and weak, rusted, crusted, sagged, cracked and broken frames. Your trailer being in Florida would make me really want to see what the frame looks like underneath. I would also replace the nasty pink mouse house insulation that is sandwiched between the sub-floor and frame. Actually, if I were you, I would remove the shell and build a completely new frame from high quality steel. New 3/4" Joubert MGP sub-floor and replace every speck of the pink insulation with something that won't hold water and the mice won't make nests in. That will give you a structurally sound foundation for the wonderful interior you have designed.
I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful design become a reality.
Good luck and thanks for sharing this cool project with us all!

[SuzyHomemakr]

My first two tries at building an epoxy panel turned out less than stellar. Oh well, that's why they call it "experimenting". I used a sandwich of two pieces of fiberglass cloth with raffia strands in between in one case, and some spiffy handmade paper in the other. Lots of nasty air bubbles, and I used some old epoxy resin that turned way yellow and disgusting. The paper that I had went almost clear as well.

The one bright thing was using plastic drop cloth- the epoxy releases perfectly. For the next round, I'll improve my press with two pieces of melamine, stretch the drop cloth like canvas, and lots of weight to really squeeze out the excess. I think that one piece of fiberglass cloth should be enough, as I found some beautiful hand-made papers at Jerry's Artarama in Deerfield Beach. I was down there buying the correct hardener (West Systems 207) and some new pumps. Jerry's papers look to be the answer, as they have a good assortment of patterns and materials. The photo doesn't really do the papers justice, as the one on the right has some reflective bits, and they are all very dimensional.

The papers look to be pliable enough to be able to mold them into cut outs in 1/4" ply. That would leave me with a flush surface on the nice side, which could be quite nice.

For those of you following along at home, this looks to be a promising method for coming up with rigid, waterproof decorative panels. A thin patterned cloth, like a Hawaiian shirt, could be used in place of the fiberglass cloth. Dried leaves could also be very cool. West Systems makes a fine epoxy that is easy to use (a squirt of resin, a squirt of hardener from calibrated pumps) that is available through West Marine.

A better source of epoxy is epoxyproducts.com, and use their Basic No-Blush. The blush part doesn't refer to the glow of pride as your friends haul you about on their shoulders to celebrate your fine craftsmanship. Amine blush is nasty white streaks that appear if you use inferior products and leave your finish bright (that's "clear" to you landlubbers). No-Blush is basically 1/2 the price of West, and you can use Dixie Cups to measure it out instead of pricey pumps that can fail.

More experiments later today! When I come up with a repeatable solution, I'll detail the process over on instructables.com, a great searchable resource when you're trying to figure out how to accomplish some arcane task.

[SuzyHomemakr]

Originally Posted by Top

Hi and welcome to the forums.
Wow! That is some nice planning you have going on there. You certainly are a master of rendering a plan. Nice layout. I have a fondness for '72 Ambassadors. Yours looks to be in pretty good shape.
Since you are in the process of removing the original interior, I was wondering how the sub-floor looks under the bath and under all the windows. I may have missed you mention it, but the structural integrity of the frame, sub-floor and shell are critical. I have not seen a 70s era Airstream that wasn't parked inside its whole life without the rear sub-floor rotted out. The common problems with the 70s era trailers are rotten/rotted sub-floor and weak, rusted, crusted, sagged, cracked and broken frames. Your trailer being in Florida would make me really want to see what the frame looks like underneath. I would also replace the nasty pink mouse house insulation that is sandwiched between the sub-floor and frame. Actually, if I were you, I would remove the shell and build a completely new frame from high quality steel. New 3/4" Joubert MGP sub-floor and replace every speck of the pink insulation with something that won't hold water and the mice won't make nests in. That will give you a structurally sound foundation for the wonderful interior you have designed.
I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful design become a reality.
Good luck and thanks for sharing this cool project with us all!

Thanks for the nice compliment! Now that you mention it, my rear end is sagging a bit (and so is my trailer's!). I should get the rest of the old stuff out of the rear half of the Airstream later today, so I can examine the patient in greater depth. The area around where the old head was is indeed rotted- I tried to look up "3/4" Joubert MGP sub-floor", and all I got was some French flautist. Thin soup, indeed! Got a link for that?

Full-on frame replacement is a bit farther than I'd like to go... I'm hoping that I can warp the ass-end back into place and maybe sister on steel tubing to support it. The bed frame that's going in is basically a huge spar, so that should also help with the rigidity.

This could also be a case of "wishful thinking to the point of hallucination"...

[Lance M]

Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr

Got a link for that?

Full-on frame replacement is a bit farther than I'd like to go... I'm hoping that I can warp the ass-end back into place and maybe sister on steel tubing to support it. The bed frame that's going in is basically a huge spar, so that should also help with the rigidity.

This could also be a case of "wishful thinking to the point of hallucination"...

Probably is wishful thinking, but you gotta have hope. Right? If you have any doubt about the frame, I would build a new one. It may be less labor intensive (and less costly) to build a new frame rather than repairing the old one. I'm pretty sure someday I'll be building a new frame to replace the repaired frame on my '72 Abby.

The Joubert is the best marine grade plywood available.
Joubert plywood - Gamme : entrée
Hydrotek is also a great choice and meets BS1088.
Marine Plywood – Forest Plywood

[perryg114]

I agree with TOP. You need a good foundation to build on before you start. There are several of us here who have gone through this. Since you are going to put the bedroom in the back, you are going to have to rip all that bathroom out anyway. If you pull the bumper trim around the back of the trailer, it will let you inspect the rear hold down plate and rear cross member. If you have a bumper storage compartment, look in there and you can see that cross member.

Perry

[samyjam14]

Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr

Yesterday I went up to Riviera Beach, and bought some cool plywood from World Panel Products. They have an amazing plywood called Eurolite, which weighs about 1/3 of conventional ply. It's European Poplar, which is very light in color and has some interesting figure to it. Josh was very helpful, and let me paw through a number of sheets to find the ones that I liked.

That warehouse is amazing, completely filled with beautiful teak dimensional lumber. The owner travels to Myanmar a few times a year to set up the shipments. I really love teak, but the conflict and environmental degradation involved (OK, and the unbelievable price!) have put it off the table.

I was up in the air about what the main wood for cabinetry and bulkheads would would be, so this decided me. I'll do some stain and finish tests today so that I can live with the results for a bit before fully committing. World Panel was out of dimensional poplar, but I found a great substitute, aspen wood at the local Lowe's.

Plywood is a fantastic material to work with, but looking at the raw edges sure sucks! As I also want to have many sexy curves in the construction, the aspen will come in handy to cut and form all of the exposed edges.

Many moons ago, I constructed a strip-built kayak, and marveled at the methodology. Using 3/4" X 1/4" strips, with a cove-and-bead detail (a 1/2 round bulge on one edge, and the matching curve on the other edge), you could make a beautifully curved kayak. So that's how I plan to get some of the wilder curves in the Airstream built. I'll form the strips into curves, glue the edges together, then epoxy glass the backside for strength. Speaking of which...

I like the wood!
We have a sliding door from ikea in our garage (covering shelves) and every time I walk by it I think about how cool our 72 sovereign would look with that wood (is it really wood?)

I'm enjoying following your thread! Thanks for sharing!

[SuzyHomemakr]

A big shout out to desertair27, who sold me a beautiful rock guard through the Classifieds. He pointed out an installation video, and a helper and I installed it with no problems. Felt good to be putting some rivets in, rather than drilling/grinding them out!

The big thing was stripping out most of the back half. I put an ad in the Classifieds, and ss64chevy has agreed to buy the storage bins that were above the gaucho and the closet. Any other takers?

I'll replace all of the vent lines with anti-siphon traps on the sinks, and some sort of flexible hose for the gray water. The black water tank converts to gray water with the composting head.

Any leads for me on that hose? I've tried searching the Forums, but haven't come up with an actual part name.

Of course, grim reality set in when I had a clear view of the interior. So my plan changed a bit. Looks like I'll keep the water heater and the battery case where they are, and build cushioned wings on the side of the bed frame to house them. The rendering shows my deck prism downlights in place, and the complete cabinetry module. The view is unrealistic; I've got the bathroom hidden, it's really not that spacious! I had to move the bulkhead between the head and the stateroom more forward, as there wasn't enough room to walk around the bed.

The overhead needs some detailing, and I really like the look of the current Land Yacht configuration. Anyone know of some pics as to how those babies open up? I'm assuming that they fold down, but that seems like it would have horrible access. I could easily be persuaded to torment some veneer into those sexy curves! Or maybe strip build it...

So this post has gone on too long, I'm putting off going out and cutting away the rotted floor and checking out what's underneath...

[perryg114]

I like the bedroom layout. It looks very inviting. I need to hire you to model my kitchen in the house. The wife has all these ideas and I told her I will draw it first and we will hash everything out before anything gets torn out or built. When you going to finish the dinet rendering. I may want to steal that from you. I want to get rid of the coucho and put in a dinet.

Perry

[Aerowood]

Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr

I'll replace all of the vent lines with anti-siphon traps on the sinks, and some sort of flexible hose for the gray water. The black water tank converts to gray water with the composting head.

Any leads for me on that hose? I've tried searching the Forums, but haven't come up with an actual part name

Look at post 413 around page 30 for the vents I used on the thread below

[desertair27]

I'm glad to hear the rock guard worked out for you and the install went well.
The hold down fasteners are in the mail.
Thanks
Mike

[SuzyHomemakr]

After asking Aerowood about his vent/drain pipe (1 1/4" poly/irrigation pipe, geez that guy has some serious skills!), I got to thinking about it in greater depth. I find myself using my yacht repair skills more and more, as I think that these trailers more resemble boats than small houses. So maybe I could install "bilges" in the trailer, and use a small bilge pump to pump the gray water into the main tank? I'm thinking a 2 gal. bucket under the sink as a catch basin, then use 3/4" clear hose to the tank. It looks like I'll add a wainscot to the sides of the stateroom, which will make a dandy pipe chase to route whatever pipes and wires that I need.

Good news yesterday! When I removed all of the pipes in the way, and cut up the floor, I discovered the source of the sponginess. Turns out that the plywood had rotted away at the back, and I was walking on the black tank. The I-beams still have a lot of meat in them, and the back end isn't too saggy (1/4" in 4'). So I'll just replace the last 24" of floor, and monitor the situation.

[ALUMINUMINUM]

Pardon the unsolicited help, but it's common on this forum...


I wholly understand your decision and determination to make a raffia door. I've done some fiberglass sheet forming, and I had best luck vacuum forming. I made a giant bag from sheet plastic and duct tape, then attached shop-vac and used a heavy roller. You might decide to celebrate the bubbles.




Alternately, there are heavy Shoji screen papers designed for outdoors. What I am especially impressed with, is not only the durability, but the light diffusion. The light diffusion is a subtlety that may have taken many generations to perfect. Japan knows paper better than I.


Following are images of how I made a replacement for the absolutely hideous melamine pocket door specified by AS in 1968. I used plasticized Shoji paper, common joinery, and clear fir. As the lites descend, their heights increase in the ratio of Phi. This door's paper application is not true to traditional Japanese method, but few are aware of the Euro-centric modification.


There may be fewer than a dozen paper patterns, but I found one that pleases me. It is quite strong, has a faintly smooth matte texture, lightweight, and very illuminating.


Not sure if this helps with your plan, but I do sympathize with your door struggle.

[SuzyHomemakr]

How cool is that door! Very nice work. The pattern is very striking, and it makes the space look larger. Well done,sir!

My experiments have been going along nicely with the papers that I bought from Jerry's Artarama. They're ready for their 2nd lamination. I'll add another layer of paper, as they tend to go transparent with the epoxy, and another layer of cloth.

While I have the epoxy going, I'll laminate the blocks for the mounting rings for my front speakers and the base for my deck prism lamps. The speakers are going where the overhead bin starts to curve, therefore I need a flat surface to insure a good seal. The rings will start out at 8" X 5 1/2" X 1 1/2", then be shaped down to fit the curve. My intarsia wood carving skills will come in handy here!

The deck prisms get a 6" diameter plate with a hexagonal 4" X 4 1/2" hole cut out of it. This plate gets glued on with thickened epoxy, to keep the prism from falling out and spearing my skull in the night. I have small tupperware-like buckets that will become the housing for the LEDs that will illuminate them. Years ago, when I remodeled a Skipjack cuddy cabin boat, I put a deck prism sticking up out of the foredeck. It illuminated the interior nicely, even when installed upside down. Looked cool as all get-out. When asked about it, I would look at the person with a straight face and say, "It's what powers the boat".

[Skatiero]

I just wrote a long reply and the app closed and I lost it! Argh! Great work. I thought you might be interested in a product we are using on our latest Airstream renovation. We have finally finished the non-pretty stuff, replacing. The plumbing (complete redo) and electrical (we upgraded to 50 amp and wired for additional lighting and an additional Air Conditioner) and stripped and sealed the exterior (and sealed, and sealed, and sealed-- that actually came first, root counting the running gear) and replace extensive sections of subfloor-- be sure you get yours into the c-channel-- read threads--it's structural.

I love your door ideas and the shoji material is really cool too. I wanted to point out a product called 3-form at we are using in our "new" Airstream. It is a post-consumer recycled material which is laminated plastic. They have led lighting built in in so many different ways. If you search for 3-form and 3form you'll see myriad styles and applications. It is primarily used in commercial projects, and is very pricey but they do have a "seconds" area on the website with some smaller pieces. Here are a couple of examples. Airstream uses 3-form for their sliding cabinet doors in some of their new high-end models.

Check out our read (boring so far) about our 1986 Excella 32 remodel, going from a read bed into a 2-bedroom bunkhouse. It's in the 1986 Excella section on the forums.