Martin's Argosy Rebuild Thread

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Some positive news....

The tech support guys at Magnum have confirmed the cable should be the same and I should be able to simply plug in the new controller. Just need that new controller to arrive now; it has cleared customs/Global Shipping Programme and is 'out for delivery' just no idea when.

It's about time you got some positive news for a change

I would think "out for delivery" would mean it's on a truck to be delivered that day.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

....... I would think "out for delivery" would mean it's on a truck to be delivered that day.

Well I suppose 4 days later is not too bad.

The new remote just got delivered so I know what I am doing tomorrow!

[martin300662]

Oh joy.....

I plug in the new controller, it lights up and seems to be working fine.

I go into the charger set-up parameters, and can read the pre-sets.

I select the option to change....."not available with this firmware revision"

So basically I have to wait until tomorrow, call Magnum and see if the firmware in the MMS can be updated.

Amazing how something that was supposedly state of the art 5 years ago, becomes only usable as a paper weight!

[bkahler]

It sounds like they didn't want the end users tinkering with the charge settings. I can't wait to hear what their response will be

[martin300662]

Hmmm.....

So the reply was 'it shouldn't do that', I should be able to change the charger parameters.

However there is a high probability that the 'new' controller, isn't the current version (ie it was NOS). The older firmware message is coming from the controller not the MMS. Apparently prior to COVID Magnum offered an upgrade service for the controller firmware but it seems that is no longer available, so I now have to contact the seller and let them try and sort it.

I have had the two group27 batteries on a bench charger for a couple of days, then monitored the voltage drop, and they don't seem that bad. May just put them back in and run SLA until the end of the camping season, then worry about switching to LFP later.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Hmmm.....

So the reply was 'it shouldn't do that', I should be able to change the charger parameters.

However there is a high probability that the 'new' controller, isn't the current version (ie it was NOS). The older firmware message is coming from the controller not the MMS. Apparently prior to COVID Magnum offered an upgrade service for the controller firmware but it seems that is no longer available, so I now have to contact the seller and let them try and sort it.

I have had the two group27 batteries on a bench charger for a couple of days, then monitored the voltage drop, and they don't seem that bad. May just put them back in and run SLA until the end of the camping season, then worry about switching to LFP later.

Good news about the batteries, bad news about the controller.

Hopefully the seller will take care getting the controller upgraded.

[martin300662]

"Belay my last message!"

Both the old SLA batteries are charging, both appeared to be holding charge when not under load. I tried a load test on the first and got a decent return using a little 600w inverter, but as soon as I connected the second to the inverter, the inverter shut-off, at which point I noticed the case of that battery is physically "bowing". So I guess the batteries are not good after all.


Still no news about the controller; the seller appears to just buy surplus stock and resell, so his first suggestion is to send it back and try another. Great apart from I have already paid $40 shipping plus $30 tax, so it would actually be cheaper to buy another than return mine!

The newly launched (slightly smaller) Victron Energy Multi-Plus (PMP122200100) fits and is looking more and more attractive (although the $1500 price tag less so!).

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

"Belay my last message!"

Both the old SLA batteries are charging, both appeared to be holding charge when not under load. I tried a load test on the first and got a decent return using a little 600w inverter, but as soon as I connected the second to the inverter, the inverter shut-off, at which point I noticed the case of that battery is physically "bowing". So I guess the batteries are not good after all.

So the question is, what type of batteries do you buy?

Still no news about the controller; the seller appears to just buy surplus stock and resell, so his first suggestion is to send it back and try another. Great apart from I have already paid $40 shipping plus $30 tax, so it would actually be cheaper to buy another than return mine!

The newly launched (slightly smaller) Victron Energy Multi-Plus (PMP122200100) fits and is looking more and more attractive (although the $1500 price tag less so!).

What's the price difference between the correct working controller and the Victron?

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

So the question is, what type of batteries do you buy?

Harry Belafonte - There's a Hole in the Bucket

I am really tempted to just get a couple of new SLA and stick my head in the sand for another 3 years!

Originally Posted by bkahler

What's the price difference between the correct working controller and the Victron?

I could buy another controller from a different vendor but there is no way to know whether that will also be NOS (Magnum only added LFP profiles around a year ago), and even then there is nothing to say 'for sure' my 7 year old MMS will actually work with that controller. So spend another $300 and keep my fingers crossed, or spend $1500 and know it will work (and if it doesn't I can drive to the local dealer and get them to fix it!)

Basically I bought a BetaMax and VHS has won the video war.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Harry Belafonte - There's a Hole in the Bucket

I am really tempted to just get a couple of new SLA and stick my head in the sand for another 3 years!

That approach for me has worked well over the years

I could buy another controller from a different vendor but there is no way to know whether that will also be NOS (Magnum only added LFP profiles around a year ago), and even then there is nothing to say 'for sure' my 7 year old MMS will actually work with that controller. So spend another $300 and keep my fingers crossed, or spend $1500 and know it will work (and if it doesn't I can drive to the local dealer and get them to fix it!)

Basically I bought a BetaMax and VHS has won the video war.

Sometimes is just easier to bite the bullet and just make the change and be done with it. I've got boxes and boxes full of the same sort of stuff. Who knows, maybe someday future antique hunters will find some or all of it valuable.

[martin300662]

Celebrating tiny victories.....

This photo is probably insignificant to most but the new (confirmed as 'old stock') controller has been reset to default conditions, and even though it doesn't have the LFP presets, I can now get to the 'custom' battery type configuration and so can program whatever profile I want.



Next job is to cut the recess to take the larger controller, then to tackle the issue of the batteries.....oh I haven't shared that hiccup yet. Bella has a pull out battery tray, sized to take group 27 batteries; all the 100ah LFP batteries commercially available in the UK are group 31 size and are around an inch too wide for the battery tray. The frustration is the components inside (4 prismatic 100ah cells and a BMS), fit in a group 27 size box, just in UK/EU no-one uses group 27 batteries so no-one makes them. One vendor has offered to sell an assembled battery out of a case (this sounds complicated but a 0.50cal ammo box is the same size as a group 27 battery). Or I could just order the parts and build another of my own (but battery cells take 8-12 weeks to ship from China - that what I have done for Peanuts battery pack). Or I could buy and ship from US. Or I could get the battery tray rebuilt to take group 31 size batteries.

So basically my smaller victory is hollow because it doesn't get me any closer to a solution!

[bkahler]

Not sure how much work it might be but it would seem that upsizing your battery tray might be a good option. That could save you down the road if a battery dies while you're out and about. Being able to buy a battery locally would be nice.

Just my $0.02

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Not sure how much work it might be but it would seem that upsizing your battery tray might be a good option. That could save you down the road if a battery dies while you're out and about. Being able to buy a battery locally would be nice.

Just my $0.02

I agree Brad and deciding that is my task for the weekend.

It isn't going to be an easy task as the 'tray' is actually welded out of 1/8th angle but that slides in runners welded to a sub-frame that sits the whole length of the drivers side and carries the propane tank, kitchen grey water tank as well as acting as the pivot for the extending compartment door hinges.....it is a 'can of worms'.

I think it is highly likely that couple of 'cheap' SLA batteries to get me through the camping season (we have two regional WBCCI rallies in the next month, which run back to back and include a caravan between the two), and modify the battery tray over the winter, is the way forward.

[martin300662]

Some photos to better explain the situation....

Bella's battery tray is a 307mm by 365mm square of 90degree angle, but with the sides extended to sit in 'T-slot', the front to include a shaped handle, and a raised back (to take a retaining strap and stop it being pulled out in normal operation.





You can better see the 'tray' if it is removed



The issue is, group 31 batteries are the same depth but 330mm wide, so the tray would need to be 25mm wider, but also the rearward/right side T-slot runner cut out and moved 25mm further back.

[bkahler]

Is the floor of the compartment made from steel diamond plate or aluminum? It looks like your tray assembly is welded in place. If so that does add to the complexity a little bit.

Fortunately none of the issues are insurmountable.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Is the floor of the compartment made from steel diamond plate or aluminum? It looks like your tray assembly is welded in place. If so that does add to the complexity a little bit.

Fortunately none of the issues are insurmountable.

Steel diamond plate and yes it is welded in place.

I maybe looking at it too simplistically, but it looks to me like the joins on the right side could be ground off and a continuous piece of (bent) 1in flat bar inserted (basically 'banding the tray'. Then the tacks that hold the runner cut off and re-attached 1in to the right. Yes the handle etc will be offset/not centralized but that doesn't really matter.

However I am waiting on a call from a welder/fabricator I use for other projects who is much more competent than me to make that call!

[martin300662]

D'oh!

I am sure many of you have come across situations where a 'light bulb' goes off, and you realize you are trying to address/fix a problem when actually you would be much better off changing the problem.... a Kobayashi Maru situation for fans of the original Star Trek.

So having spent yesterday trying to fit a quart into a pint pot, AKA 2xgroup 31 batteries into a tray built for 2xgroup 24, and failing. I realized the issue was not the batteries, not even the try itself, but why I had the tray. ASNE built the tray to give regular access to the original flooded lead acid batteries that needed regular maintenance (AKA topping up with water). The only purpose it has now is to get to the terminal posts of the rear battery.

This would still be valid if I fit 2x100ah LFP batteries, but not so if I change to a single 200ah, which has the terminals on the leading edge. Basically the battery tray has no value than get in the way, literally.

So this morning I fought with, and removed, the hardware ASNE mounted behind the tray to prevent it moving whilst cornering at 4g (as you are likely to do in a motorhome), leaving a flat platform between the two runners. Then I mocked up a single 200ah battery (out of cardboard), and guess what it fits perfectly snug against the rear of the compartment (which abuts the chassis rail), between the two runners, and is the perfect length to allow access to the terminal posts without moving the battery.



I still have to attach a strap to hold-down a new battery, but will be ordering one of these tomorrow.



Just remember when life gives you lemons....make lemonade!

PS....Bella also looses 50lb in weight by removing the tray and with the battery swap and gains more than 50% ah capacity (because lead acid batteries can only deliver 50% of the capacity (ie 100ah from 2x100ah batteries) whereas the 200ah LFP uses 8 105ah cells (2P4S) so is guaranteed to return 200ah but typically hits 220ah capacity).

[bkahler]

Sounds like the classic "can't see the forest for the trees" problem

Sure looks like you have your solution.

[martin300662]

I have lined the floor and rear panel of the area between to old battery tray runners with 3mm rubber floor (I actually got some with checker plate finish, to match the steel floor).

.

Battery has arrived (with new branding) and is currently 60% charged, trouble is it will take overnight to charge the other 40%!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I have lined the floor and rear panel of the area between to old battery tray runners with 3mm rubber floor (I actually got some with checker plate finish, to match the steel floor).



Battery has arrived (with new branding) and is currently 60% charged, trouble is it will take overnight to charge the other 40%!

Attachment 400689 Attachment 400690

What would be the ~full recharge time? The reason i am asking is that I may be interested in one of those 12V AC system powered by Lithium batteries to operate during daytime driving hours and recharge over night with full hook ups.