'74 Argosy 20' Motorhome restoration/rebuild

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

......

I think it has definite possibilities. When you get a chance could you measure the diameter of the top where it fits in the tank?

Brad

The overall outside diameter is 3 5/8", with the outside diameter of the raised lip/ring (I am assuming that ring sits inside the opening to center the sender) at 3 1/8"

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

The overall outside diameter is 3 5/8", with the outside diameter of the raised lip/ring (I am assuming that ring sits inside the opening to center the sender) at 3 1/8"

Those dimensions match the FG12Q sending unit so it looks like your sender will fit in the GM29 tank.

I believe this is the same sending unit that you purchased.


If the longest tube is 3/8" and if there is a 1/4" tube that is suitable for a return line then I can't see why this one couldn't be made to work. The 11-3/4" tube would need to have a bend put in the bottom of it to bring it up off the bottom of the tank and a strainer sock installed but that shouldn't be a problem.

In my case what I would probably do is use the shorter of the large diameter tubes as a pickup for my genset.

I found this strainer sock online for $12 that I think will work.


Now I just need to return the one I bought from Mill Supply and order one of these units.

Thanks!

Brad

[martin300662]

Would it help if I sent you the one I have to investigate Brad?

[bkahler]

Last night while watching football I decided to take some time to test the two Teleflex fuel gauges that I have. Both are used, one came from the 345 and the other from an ebay purchase.

I used the 0-90 ohm Mill Supply sending unit along with a 12 volt mower battery for testing. Both gauges responded the same, unfortunately neither gave correct readings. When the float was at the empty position the gauges read just slightly over half full. When the float was at the full position both gauges were pegged past the full mark.

The needles would move as the float was moved but would not drop below 1/2 tank. I'm not really sure where to go from here. I checked the resistance reading of the sender and when at low float position the reading was about 1 ohm. At high float level the reading was close to 100 ohms.

Since one of the gauges came from a 345 I'm fairly certain it's for the correct 0-90 sending units as used on GM vehicles of the era. The resistance readings are the same that Steve (Keyair) reported with the sender he purchased for his rebuild.

I am returning the Mill Supply sender since it's broken and doesn't have the right tube configuration. I'll probably end up buying the same unit that Martin purchased. Who knows, maybe that will solve my problem with the gauges.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Would it help if I sent you the one I have to investigate Brad?

Martin, thanks for the offer. If yours has the 1/4" return and the feed is 3/8" then I can't see any reason that it couldn't be made to work. We already know it fits the tank so if the tube dimensions match we should be good to go at which point I will just go ahead and order one.

It would probably help as well for me to order a tank to go with it The cheapest Spectra GM29 tank that I've found is $173.98 delivered.

Brad

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Martin, thanks for the offer. If yours has the 1/4" return and the feed is 3/8" then I can't see any reason that it couldn't be made to work. We already know it fits the tank so if the tube dimensions match we should be good to go at which point I will just go ahead and order one.

It would probably help as well for me to order a tank to go with it The cheapest Spectra GM29 tank that I've found is $173.98 delivered.

Brad

I'm not sure that is the case Brad.

I measure the longest pipe (that has the support bracket attached) as 1/4". The shorter pipe (which is meant to have the electric pump fitted) is 3/8". The shortest pipe (that I am calling the return) is 9/16" and the pipe fitted with the anti-tipping valve is also 1/4" (but is contoured/mandrelled at the pipe fitting down to 3/16")



I think this will only work with the pump extending the feed down to the base of the tank.

[bkahler]

Martin, nothing is ever easy is it

I think the large 9/16 line is probably a vapor line. That would either get capped off or in my case I can convert it to a generator feed with a little bit of rework.

The anti tip-over which is some sort of breather when the tank is upright would either be plugged or what would I probably try to do is go ahead and plumb it like they do in race cars.

The long 1/4 return line would be cut off to a few inches below the flange.

The 3/8 suction line would have to be lengthened somehow and a strainer attached.

I think this particular sending unit is the best option found so far. If you're not yet sure you'll be using this one I'll buy it from you and try the mods I'm suggesting. If it works and you want one done the same way I'd be happy to make the mods. That way you're not sitting on a sender you may not need and I would have one to tinker with. Or I can just go ahead and order one.



Brad

[martin300662]

Makes perfect sense Brad.

I have just spoken to the shop and there is no sign of my tank coming back (I guess at least I am getting free indoor storage!) but there there two things playing on my mind.

1) My tank is bigger than standard; so I am guessing 'taller', and so I am guessing may need a custom length pick-up anyway

2) I am really taken to the idea of using the electric pump within the tank as per the standard 1986 S10 install (that this sender comes from). I now they only had a little six pot engine but as a assistance pump I like the idea.

Both of which I can't really answer until the damn tank comes back!

As there is no way to tell how long the Ebay offer on these senders will last, I suggest you order one and I will take the hit if the one I have never gets used.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Makes perfect sense Brad.

I have just spoken to the shop and there is no sign of my tank coming back (I guess at least I am getting free indoor storage!) but there there two things playing on my mind.

1) My tank is bigger than standard; so I am guessing 'taller', and so I am guessing may need a custom length pick-up anyway

Your tank definitely hangs lower than stock.

2) I am really taken to the idea of using the electric pump within the tank as per the standard 1986 S10 install (that this sender comes from). I now they only had a little six pot engine but as a assistance pump I like the idea.

The S10 tank in 1986 was 13-1/2" deep and from the pictures of your tank I'd say you're at least 12-1/2" to 13" deep.

Both of which I can't really answer until the damn tank comes back!

I can hear your teeth gritting from here

As there is no way to tell how long the Ebay offer on these senders will last, I suggest you order one and I will take the hit if the one I have never gets used.

Sounds good. I just finished buying the ACDelco unit for $53.99 which is a lot better than the $414.95 I saw for the same unit also on ebay!

I might look at the in-tank fuel pump arrangement but that would mean shortening the two tubes slightly, moving the pump support bracket and figuring out how to add the bulge on the end of the 3/8" tube. None is insurmountable I just don't know if it would be worth the effort. Fortunately I have a little bit of time to decide what to do.

Brad

[bkahler]

Well thanks to Peter I now have my in-dash radio on order

I opted to purchase a Jensen XV7012 in dash radio with flip up screen for GPS, movies and rear view camera.


For those of you not familiar with the early Argosy dashes here's some pictures to give you an idea of what they look like. The dash is the long narrow strip that runs left to right and has switches, radio, vents, etc in it.


With the dash being long and skinny a standard 2-din radio with a 7" screen wasn't about to fit so a single din with flip up screen was the only option.

I will be reworking the arrangement of device located in the dash and will look at swapping the position of the ac/heater controls and moving the radio over to that spot.

I may have to find a way to test it in my Triumph TR4 in the mean time...

Should be interesting

Brad

[Danec020]

I was unaware they made screens that could come out and flip up like that, very neat! The only issue you might run into with that type of screen/dash combination is the clearance for the screen being able to flip up properly. It looks like there is a little strip of molding that sticks out a littler further then where your radio would be mounted. It probably won't be an issue but hopefully it doesn't prevent the screen from reclining back into position fully. I say this because it looks like that screen has to go back a certain amount for the little legs to lock it into place, at least that is what it seems like in the picture. In the end I guess you could just have the radio mounted out a little but a flush fit would be nice .

Edit: Never mind! Looking at the pictures again it doesn't appear to stick out much further if any at all. Also looks like your dash has a slight slope backwards as it goes up which should work perfectly. When you are done that is going to be one cool added feature!

-Dane

[bkahler]

Dane, there is a possibility that I will have to pull the radio out of the dash slightly to get it to lock in place properly. Unfortunately this style of flip up radio is about the only option that I know of for getting a 7" video display in the dash.

I didn't want an under dash mount and if I put anything above the dash it would likely be some sort of display for a camera system. As it is I think this radio can be made to work without being to much of an eyes sore

Brad

[mayco]

I really struggled with designing my head unit/stereo install. I had it in a temporary Jensen single din plastic Marine grade device for awhile just so we had some tunes on the road. There are soooo dog gone many choices these days and so many gadgets to choose from. I finally decided to do something real simple but true to the 80's vintage. I tried to kind of mimic an old Kenwood receiver I once owned and loved from that time period, something like this


So I just kept it simple and made a small cabinet from walnut and plywood laminated with aluminum. Angled the face in the cabinet for easier vision and used an Alpine head unit. Its on rubber mounting legs so it doesnt move around on top of the doghouse. Incorporated a couple drink holders in the top, a little map light and a cool little Airstream logo badge.


Its wired with quick connectors so I can move it to access the front of the doghouse top. Its worked out pretty good


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[dadstoy]

Very nice!

Originally Posted by mayco

I really struggled with designing my head unit/stereo install. I had it in a temporary Jensen single din plastic Marine grade device for awhile just so we had some tunes on the road. There are soooo dog gone many choices these days and so many gadgets to choose from. I finally decided to do something real simple but true to the 80's vintage. I tried to kind of mimic an old Kenwood receiver I once owned and loved from that time period, something like this
Attachment 254142

So I just kept it simple and made a small cabinet from walnut and plywood laminated with aluminum. Angled the face in the cabinet for easier vision and used an Alpine head unit. Its on rubber mounting legs so it doesnt move around on top of the doghouse. Incorporated a couple drink holders in the top, a little map light and a cool little Airstream logo badge.
Attachment 254143

Its wired with quick connectors so I can move it to access the front of the doghouse top. Its worked out pretty good


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by mayco

I really struggled with designing my head unit/stereo install. I had it in a temporary Jensen single din plastic Marine grade device for awhile just so we had some tunes on the road. There are soooo dog gone many choices these days and so many gadgets to choose from. I finally decided to do something real simple but true to the 80's vintage. I tried to kind of mimic an old Kenwood receiver I once owned and loved from that time period, something like this
Attachment 254142

So I just kept it simple and made a small cabinet from walnut and plywood laminated with aluminum. Angled the face in the cabinet for easier vision and used an Alpine head unit. Its on rubber mounting legs so it doesnt move around on top of the doghouse. Incorporated a couple drink holders in the top, a little map light and a cool little Airstream logo badge.
Attachment 254143

Its wired with quick connectors so I can move it to access the front of the doghouse top. Its worked out pretty good


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

Mike, now that's a stereo!

Nice install by the way

[bkahler]

I knew there was a reason I was trying to come up with the correct ball joint tools. Today I was crawling around under the front of the Argosy and noticed these problems.

Left side:


Right side:


Back in 2008 I had the front end rebuilt by some guys that worked in a machine shop owned by a friend of mine. This was moonlighting work for them.

For some reason the ball joint tapers haven't seated deep enough in the steering knuckle so the castle nuts can't be turned to engage the hole for the cotter pin. The ball joints are Moog K6174 and K6175.

Looks like a rework of the front suspension is definitely in the works this winter.

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I knew there was a reason I was trying to come up with the correct ball joint tools. Today I was crawling around under the front of the Argosy and noticed these problems.

Left side:
Attachment 254194Attachment 254195

Right side:
Attachment 254196Attachment 254197

Back in 2008 I had the front end rebuilt by some guys that worked in a machine shop owned by a friend of mine. This was moonlighting work for them.

For some reason the ball joint tapers haven't seated deep enough in the steering knuckle so the castle nuts can't be turned to engage the hole for the cotter pin. The ball joints are Moog K6174 and K6175.

Looks like a rework of the front suspension is definitely in the works this winter.

Brad

I used K6511 for the lowers and K6174 for the uppers
that just isn't right, I wonder if there was any other moonlighting going on.
Upper torques to ~ 70-80 and lower to ~80-90 and NOT what the shop manual says (130)

[bkahler]

Peter, it appears the K6511 is for the 14K chassis. As near as I've been able to figure mine is known as an 11K chassis and somes called "MHC not 14K". With that in mind the two choices seem to be K6175 and K6129T. I think the K6129T is what I might need for the lower.

The other wild card is the guys doing the work bailed on me before they were done and its possible they never torqued the nuts on the ball joints. I finished up the assembley but the springs and ball joints were already installed and I know didn't look to close at the installation as I had other things on my mind.. My main concern at the time was getting the Argosy on wheels so I could get it loaded on the trailer for the move to Kentucky.

[bkahler]

Ok, here's a potentially dumb question

Since I'm switching the toilet to a cassette style arrangement and removing the black water tank completely is there any reason I would need the 3" discharge pipe just for the gray water tank? I would think I could easily get by with a 3/4" hose style connection and use a regular garden hose to empty the tank.

Am I missing something here?!

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Ok, here's a potentially dumb question

Since I'm switching the toilet to a cassette style arrangement and removing the black water tank completely is there any reason I would need the 3" discharge pipe just for the gray water tank? I would think I could easily get by with a 3/4" hose style connection and use a regular garden hose to empty the tank.

Am I missing something here?!

Brad

Good thinking! The macerator pump system have small diameter discharge hose, but it ends up in the same 3" screw in adapter for the sewer connection. I have been in campgrounds where they insisted on a tight connection to the sewer system, either via the threaded type or a rubber grommet type. I would probably consider a 1 -1 1/2 hose, so you have sufficient drainage for taking soapy showers.