New Airstream MotorHome

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by steelbird312

Just a little stir to keep the pot boiling, remember:
Wally wasn't even there when the WBCCI was formed. His cousin and others did it.
Also, all of his caravaans before the club was formed included anybody and any kind of trailer that would make the trip.
I don't know about those trips after the formation of the club.
And one last thing, the club was formed to promote TRAVEL......not sitting around enjoying the company of others while they stroked the feathers of others.
There, that ought to liven things up!

To further stir the pot, you are correct. Wally didn't start the club, it was just named in his honor so whether he would have invited, or allowed, SOB's in the club is really a moot point. How's that for a little extra stir.

Anyway, I think the officers of the WBCCI are selling out the club if they are trying to convince Airstream to brand a few Mandalay Bays for their own personal benefit. My main objection is that this is for the benefit of a few, not the benefit of the club.

Since Airstream discontinued the motor home division, how does it now benefit the club as a whole to sell a counterfeit Airstream motor home? Will people actually buy an expensive Class A Mandalay Bay with Airstream badging for the sole purpose of joining the WBCCI? Will selling a counterfeit Class A Airstream increase membership in the club? It will do neither. I think the only benefit that can remotely be considered is that a few soon to be octogenarian officers that will be too old to camp in less than 10 years will be able to extend their memberships maybe five or six extra years and thus extend their antiquated influence on the club for those next few years before turning the reigns over to the next wave of officers. Officers that will probably be there to take over the reigns whether it is next year or five years from now. Those officers behind this are being selfish plain and simple.

The fiberglass Squarestreams of the past have been real Airstreams. They were made by Airstream in Airstream factories by Airstream employees. They have a place in the WBCCI. This fake that is being proposed is just a means to an end. I think the only market will be the officers of the WBCCI. If there were any other profitable market, Airstream would not have canceled the diesel pusher division.

Climb down off of soap box now.

Thank you for tolerating the rantings of a recently impassioned WBCCI member.

[cooperhawk]

I don't personally know who is trying to convince Airstream to do what, however, I would suppose the reason older folks would like to be able to buy a new motorhome and still stay in the club, is because they have made friends and would still like to be a part of the group.

Is this really about the motorhome, or the animosity towards those octogenarians that actually do the work of the club. Sounds to me like sour grapes from small minds.

The real reason they run the club is because nobody else wants to. I know quite a few of them and they would certainly like to have someone else take over so they could enjoy their (octogenarian years)!

Don't like how the club is run, get off your behinds and get to work! You know, those folks would love the help in most units.

[Minnie's Mate]

As was earlier pointed out, if the officers wish to purchase new motor homes and stay in the club, they can be grandfathered in or they can buy newer motor homes than their current units or buy Class B's.

I have no animosity toward the octogenarians, just that according to the line of this thread it seams that the officers of the WBCCI are being self serving in their interest in having a counterfeit Airstream Class A. I would love to see Airstream reascend their decision to discontinue production of the Class A. I just think they should do it proper and not deceive the buying public that might be misled into thinking they were getting the same thing that someone who bought a Class A from Airstream a year ago might have received.

I was extremely disappointed when Airstream canceled the New Classic when all looked as if they were poised to begin production even though I was not in the market to purchase one. I just wanted to see a beautiful aluminum motor home on the market again. It just seems to me that if the WBCCI leaders are behind this, they are encouraging Thor to misrepresent the future buyers of the Airstream Class A who aren't yet members of this forum or the WBCCI and don't know what's going on.

As far as getting off my behind and do something...I do that every morning at 5:30 when I get up and get ready to go to work and I will continue to do so for at least the next 20 years or so until I reach retirement age. Then I will have the time available to invest in going to all of the required functions that officers in the WBCCI have to attend. Until that time I will voice my dissatisfaction when I feel that the club has taken a wrong direction. The last time I looked at the club's constitution it was one member one vote.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by cooperhawk

Is this really about the motorhome, or the animosity towards those octogenarians that actually do the work of the club. Sounds to me like sour grapes from small minds.

I think there may be some animosity in that some of us who are aquainted with a few of these motor home folks who actually run the club remember when some were part of the crowd who stood against admittance of the Base Camp and the other Airsteam produced vehicles. Now that the shoe is on the other foot I'm sure a few are getting some pleasure in giving them a dose back.

Jack

[cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Then I will have the time available to invest in going to all of the required functions that officers in the WBCCI have to attend. Until that time I will voice my dissatisfaction when I feel that the club has taken a wrong direction. The last time I looked at the club's constitution it was one member one vote.

Okay, I agree with that, however that is why the older folks actually run the club. I'm retired but due to family considerations unable to travel enough to serve as an officer. I do web sites as my contributions. And you are right of course. one member, one vote. Well, that means that the members elect these octogenarians because there is no one else running. It's not their fault you see. In fact we have members that are doing a second and even a third round as Officers because no one else has come foreward.

Jack, you may be right about some of the Officers but I know several and they seem to be opened minded to me. Maybe they've changed. Well, anyway, it gives an excuse to act in the same manner that you find fault with in them.

[Minnie's Mate]

Gunner, I'm not saying that every officer in the WBCCI is behind this or is self serving, but I do think those that are behind it just so they will have the option of trading for new in a couple of years should re-examine their motives and whether they are doing it for the good of the WBCCI or not. I really don't think they should be involved since there doesn't seem to be anything in it for the club.

There was a post several months ago that said the WBCCI quit giving away the first year's membership with the purchase of your first Airstream because they were only seeing a 15% return on the program. Well, that is a pretty good return and I would venture to guess would return more paying members than these counterfeit motor homes will bring in every year.

It's kind of like the WBCCI doesn't really have a dog in this fight so why would the officers be so interested in getting Thor to put a badge on the Mandalay? BTW, I have done a little research on the Mandalay and it seems they are nice, but really not as much of a luxury coach like I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Monaco.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Gunner, I'm not saying that every officer in the WBCCI is behind this or is self serving, but I do think those that are behind it just so they will have the option of trading for new in a couple of years should re-examine their motives and whether they are doing it for the good of the WBCCI or not. I really don't think they should be involved since there doesn't seem to be anything in it for the club.

There was a post several months ago that said the WBCCI quit giving away the first year's membership with the purchase of your first Airstream because they were only seeing a 15% return on the program. Well, that is a pretty good return and I would venture to guess would return more paying members than these counterfeit motor homes will bring in every year.

It's kind of like the WBCCI doesn't really have a dog in this fight so why would the officers be so interested in getting Thor to put a badge on the Mandalay? BTW, I have done a little research on the Mandalay and it seems they are nice, but really not as much of a luxury coach like I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Monaco.

Well said.

[cooperhawk]

Well, I guess my main question is do we actually know the officers have asked Thor to do this, or is this just a suspicion. Also, I don't believe there are enough Officers willing buy motorhomes to sway anyone to spend any money on rebadging. There just aren't the numbers it would take. If Thor is thinking of doing this, they have to have better reasons than just a few WBCCI Officers.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

BTW, I have done a little research on the Mandalay and it seems they are nice, but really not as much of a luxury coach like I was expecting. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Monaco.

We are in the midst of setting up the St. Louis RV show here at the convention center so I had a chance to go down to the exhibition hall and talk to the sales manager of the local Airstream dealer. He was not aware of the Mandalay issue but he was familiar with the motor homes and said that they were considering them as an add on to their current product offerings. He also noted that Mandalay had some nice touches that he wished Airstream had done on their motor homes. I'm not sure what those were but his reaction to the product line was good.

Jack

[steelbird312]

Here I am again. It's interesting to listen (read) opinions, and all the what ifs, the blaming of some for doing such and such, all the while we are suppositioning that something is in the works at Airstream, and unless I've missed it, that's all there is- just someone who suspects something is happening?
I have a trailer and a Class A as well. Now, if Airstream , which is wholly owned by Thor, were to offer an Airstream trailer that was assembled by another plant in the Thor family that looked like an Airstream, was badged as an Airstream, and maybe was of better quality than the present ones, would I raise sand about it. Truley, I do not know. HOWEVERI do think I would be very interested in a Class A that was assembled in a diffferent plant in the Thor family, that looked like my present Airstream, was badged as an Airstream, and maybe was of better quality than my present one!
Since Airstream Jackson Center is tight on production capability, and since Thor is owned by stockholders, and since they want to profit from their investments, it makes very good business sense (cents?) to utilize the already present manufacturing capabilities in the Thor company to satisfy what the market might want, whether they are awful, old, present WBCCI officers or are the up and coming, higher than average wage earners (thats you Minnie) or retired early full-timers in their 50's (Steve and Jane) who want a quality Class A deisel. My 390XL came from the factory with a too-small front axle and tires. Airsteam did a recall, putting on larger tires, but refusing to change the axle. Appeals to Dickie did not produce positive results. Freightliner did not have a good opinion of the route Airstream took either. My coach runs right at 97% of the front axle capacity. That's not what I would say is a quality built coach. Maybe Mandalay does better with things like this?
I just think you guys are really beating each other up, not looking at anything other than if a WBCCI officer would like to continue buying Class A's while staying in the club. Dang, that's the reason I am driving what I am now, rather than another brand....because I want to stay in and enjoy the club.
Now my thoughts of the club are slightly different than others, as I use it as an avenue to tour USA and Canada with others who I know are there for the love of travel as well. I only went to one of my local unit's rallies last year, (because I was 2500 miles away ) so I'm trying to understand this discussion from both sides. I guess I approve of the thoughts of a rebadged (is that a word?) unit, but for a completely different reason than anyone else has described.
By the way, if any of you have pull with anyone at Jackson Center, I still would like to have a true 12,000 lb front axle, instead of the bastard 11,000 lb I'm stuck with now. I call it a bastard one as Freightliner does not offer a 11,000 lb one.
In reality, it is a rebadged 10,000lb one!
I'll stop here, I don't have a conclusion!

[PWRSTRK]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Perhaps it is discrimination on some scale, but I don't think it is anymore a form of discrimination than a Corvette Club or Harley Club or any other brand specific club. I don't think you can lump it into the same kind of discrimination as a country club that only allows WASPs to join.

As for Airstream being independent, you may be right. I'm not sure, but I do know they are an independent corporation founded in 1936 that is wholly owned by Thor (per the Airstream website). Chevy is a DIVISION of GM. If I am not mistaken, there is a difference.

1.) Corvette Clubs don't spend their time figuring out ways to exclude owners of lower-grade 'vettes. Or other grade 'vettes. If it's a Corvette, they let you in.

2.) There's nothing independent about Airstream. Read Thor's annual report.

[JimGolden]

Sure. Remember the Che-vette??!!

[mistral blue]

The Corvair? The Cordoba? The list is endless...

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by PWRSTRK

1.) Corvette Clubs don't spend their time figuring out ways to exclude owners of lower-grade 'vettes. Or other grade 'vettes. If it's a Corvette, they let you in.

2.) There's nothing independent about Airstream. Read Thor's annual report.

Ahh, but there is the rub..... If that's the case then why all the full about Motorhomes back in the day, Argosy and now Basecamp?

Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.

GM also make Impalas, Camaros (at least did) and other cars too, but a Corvette club, though they may appreciate an Impala SS, still ususally won't let an SSer join simply because they have an LT1 engine, even if it was built by a seperate company or segment within a parent company.

One other thing...there are Corvette clubs that are niche clubs...vintage, 80s and 90s, so the fact that one says there aren't some splinter clubs, isn't totally true.

[bfred]

steelbird312
I don't have an in with anybody at JC, but a complaint to the NTSB might jog their memory just a little and get you that axle you need.

[Roscinante]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, the Cordobah!

Rich CORINTHIAN leather...Ricardo Monteban...

[steelbird312]

Fred,
Watch out!!!!
I may be mistaken on the numbers, however, the first 5, before the recall, received a whole new axle assembly, 12000 lb units along with 2 new Michelin tires.
The total done was (I think) 14, of which mine was one. The supplier of the axle agreed that, with the addition of higher rated tires, they would recert the original 10000 lb axle to 11000 lbs. Now, I weigh 200lbs, my wife, at 5'9" about 180. I had the unit weighed with us in our seats, and the front axle had 10700 lbs on it. I did not have a full tank of fuel, I did not have any black or gray water, and a half tank of fresh. We were not loaded heavily.
Now, I had a situation with my front Michelin tires (the ones from the recall) that no Michelin people, 3 dealers and the factory rep could explain. I had to buy two new front tires. I personally think the problem was from an overloaded, underrated front axle. I eve n had it over to Gafney for Freightliner to confirm there was no problem with the chassis. There was not. I've had it maintained there on Freightliners suggested schedule.
Now, I wrote Dicky Reigel a very nice (I thought) letter, prior to the tire occurrance, requesting Airstream provide an adequate axle. He did not refuse in writing, however, he did call me and double talk through a series of reasons why he would not do that. Now that the management at Airstream has changed to one that may not have even the foresight Mr. Reigel had. I give no hope for being satisfied with what their position might be. The fact remains, I own a motorhome that I have way more money in than I could ever hope to get back, since Airstream has stopped production of them. It has a very good running gear, it has the axle in it that Airstream specified, not what Freightliner suggests, and I, being a sucker for the "supposed" Airstream quality, purchased. I will use it, enjoy the club, and forever, be a very dissatisfied Airstream Motorhome owner. I have let it be known to enough people that if anything does ever occur from the front axle components failing, they will regret the day they refused to 'properly' rectify their engineering flaw, because of the bad publicity.
Now that said, I will stop my flame. I normally am a very positive person, you have read my posts, however, Airstream has really done wrong on this. I mean it is wrong on so many levels. And they want, or even expect our loyal purchases.
Be thankful you have the 12000 lb axle.
Oh, last year, actually, at Homecoming 2005, I was one of the folks chosen to go and 'inspec' new Airstreams that had already been released for delivery. Of the 5 units, I found at least a page of quality problems on 4 of them. The Westfalia had absolutely none that I could find. Guess which one they have discontinued? Oh, and they thanked me for the time I took to do it. They even went so far as to exclaim that I had judged the Quality of production, rather than judging the engineering. Gosh, I wish someone had judged the MH before shipping.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Ahh, but there is the rub..... If that's the case then why all the full about Motorhomes back in the day, Argosy and now Basecamp?

Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.

GM also make Impalas, Camaros (at least did) and other cars too, but a Corvette club, though they may appreciate an Impala SS, still ususally won't let an SSer join simply because they have an LT1 engine, even if it was built by a seperate company or segment within a parent company.

One other thing...there are Corvette clubs that are niche clubs...vintage, 80s and 90s, so the fact that one says there aren't some splinter clubs, isn't totally true.

Thank you!

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Airstream might not be independent, but it is it's own company, simply owned by a parent company that owns other builders. If you read the Money article about how Wade and Company run Thor, he lets each company build what they want, as long as it sells.

This is exactly what I meant. Airstream is operated independently as if it was a separate corporation with Thor owning all of the stock.

[bfred]

steelbird312
I have a friend with the same unit and year you have and he had his axle and tires replaced by AS. I would still file a complaint with the NHSB. I,ve done that on couple of vehicles I've owned and it did get the manufactures attention.
good luck