Grievance time again -Leo gets slammed again

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

Exactly. Leo G. should get the hell out of there.

You don't know Leo, he's a pitbull, he intends to fight hard.

Originally Posted by rideair

Just because someone is pointing out there are problems, should not mean they are run out of the club for doing so. Leo has offered good ideas, offered to help in many ways and has nothing but the “LONGTERM” future of the club as the cornerstone of his concerns.

Paul you are correct, how do you think he should proceed?

Originally Posted by HowieE

If it gets to the point of going to court my dues will be better spent in your defense than supporting a group that won't let others in their sandbox.

If?

I think it's a given if he can afford it?

Originally Posted by 62overlander

those officers are the very ones that use the funds to cover their travels are they not?

How can they be the least bit objective about Leo's complaints of misusing the general fund.

Great point, they're in their own world, but I know somebody that thought all these folks have a link to this thread.

Too bad none have the spine to comment!

[LI Pets]

Club financial losses $25,000.00 in 2008, and with a $44,000.00 operational loss in 2009. They passed a 2010 budget deficit of $81,000.00.


Our leaders mismanaged the WBCCI's International Rally, which has a projected to loose between $40,000.00 and $60,000.00 from additional membership funds.


But they have received 125,000 dollars in personal travel reimbursements, enabling their ability to travel coast to coast, all across North America, for their pleasure.


Maybe they can get advise from Bernie Madoff...........oh he's in jail

[bob280]

It is truly a sorry day when the International leadership would rather rule with dishonor instead of operating the club to the benefit of the membership.

It is a sorry day when a member who speaks out and renders his opinion is attacked in order to shut him up.

Well, it is understood that a new club / association is on the way that treats its members with honor and is set up to eliminate elite groups who are only interested in themselves.

A new club fun for the people and by the people and is oriented towards having fun; in camping and adventure; and in fellowship.

[robandzoe]

Here, Here Paul! I've got money saying they are already saying that around the campfire in the sky... I agree with all what Leo stands for... Leo - stand your ground - I'm with ya! This grievance stuff is a bunch of crap! - it's all childish in my eyes.

[Foiled Again]

I had the great pleasure of meeting PeeWee at the Wilds of Ohio Rally. A true gentleman. Seeing that his mother basically started WBCCI he's naturally decided to try to bring some of the history back to the forefront, and he's personally asked me and others to maintain a standard of civility. I shall attempt to adhere to that standard and goal.

I don't see any point in bashing, especially when the facts speak for themselves. Pouring lemonade over someone's head is an act that might be understandable in a 7 year old, an "adult" who does it has either committed assault or has Alzheimers. Filing grievances against Leo is a red herring - drawing attention away from the financial irresponsibility of the IBC who are running the club into ever ever increasing deficits.

Leo has bad manners? Really? Is Leo putting in vouchers for $125K for travel expenses, or mis-managing the budget of the club to the tune of an $81K deficit? It seems that perhaps it's a huge crime in the WBCCI to say "the king has no clothes on" and that's what Leo has been trying to do.

I'm going to support the good people in the WDCU and when the IBC puts the club into bankruptcy, I'll help fiscally moral people whose whole focus won't be raiding the treasury for their personal gain build a new club.

Paula

[Buttercup]

Actually, Leo should have nothing to worry about... In my case, when I got my "Timmy Butterball" letter, the Ethics and Grievance Committee dismissed it as "a private matter concerning legal behavior" (even though it was not as no legal action was filed at all). In other words, sending an email message, no matter how offensive doesn't concern the EGC as it is just a personal issue.
However, should the EGC find otherwise, it would likely immediately find itself and WBCCI in court for a grossly unbalanced application of the rules it is supposed to maintain...

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Actually, Leo should have nothing to worry about... In my case, when I got my "Timmy Butterball" letter, the Ethics and Grievance Committee dismissed it as "a private matter concerning legal behavior" (even though it was not as no legal action was filed at all). In other words, sending an email message, no matter how offensive doesn't concern the EGC as it is just a personal issue.
However, should the EGC find otherwise, it would likely immediately find itself and WBCCI in court for a grossly unbalanced application of the rules it is supposed to maintain...

Tim,

Wasn't Bob Thompson suspended as a result of his email?

Bill

[robandzoe]

but I bet you "Grievance People" are "Sue Happy People" too. I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who - who wrote the book of love?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I wonder if the french revolution began this way. Now, I understand why 2012 is such an important date. The WBCCI is totally destroyed by then.

So those people sending Leo the emails. Are they some of those given money to cover their travels? Those three people specifically? Could some one with a little more knowledge answer that for me? I would like to know if that is indeed the case.

[dwightdi]

All current region officers receive a travel allowance that they must account for. Most use the budget up for travel to their unit rallies to promote their Region Rallies and attending Installation ceremonies. International level officers use their budgets to pay for their travels to recruit local members to attend their International Rally and scout out the particulars for that Rally. What Leo is campaigning for would reduce their budgets and travel. It would also force the club to modernize its marketing practices and optimiize its operations. Past International officers are frequently recycled into Chairmanship roles and also receive money for travel to some events. The local level officers receive no money from International for anything. International's goals and costs are not aligned to help local unit success, other than providing the Blue Beret to the local members.

[LI Pets]

Which may be all well if they weren't operating in the red as deep as they are.

They should forego those perks until they can operate in the black.

If they stopped draining 125K a year for this expense they may break even.

Do they know how to cut back in a recession?

[markdoane]

The Management of WBCCI could voluntarily publish the amount each officer receives in travel reimbursements.

They could also publish the amount of un-reimbursed expenses such as meals and entertainment. The un-reimbursed expenses are probably a lot higher than the amount they receive for mileage.

I think a little transparency would dispel some of the animosity about officer perks.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Mark, Transparency would only inflame things even more. The problem that many are having with this is that the compensation is for travel to promote the International. At that same International(which has lost money three years running) there are many perks the general, full fare paying, public never sees. All of this adds up to huge perks at the expense of the general population of the club.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Tim,

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Wasn't Bob Thompson suspended as a result of his email?

Bill

Good point - he was and it was overturned. His message was sent to a list of individuals, my "Timmy Butterball" message was sent to me only (as far as I know) so it is deemed a personal and legal matter by the EGC. However, that message contained threats of legal action for the club forums - so it was done as part of club business.
Of course - the club cannot find that an offense because if they do - somebody is going to take their ball and go home.

Point is - Tompson writes an email message and his conviction is overturned.
The Conquistador writes a message and it is overturned.
Anything less than an overturned ruling on Leo and I bet it will get ugly.

If we do not have to be truly held accountable for what we say as private citizens communicating to other private citizens outside the arena of the club, as The Conquistador allegedly was, the precedent is set to challenge in court any conviction which is not dismissed completely as not following the bylaws & constitution.

[dwightdi]

It is not unusual for a minority of the members of any club to receive the majority of the benefits. It is in the leaders own self interest that they would structure it that way.

Only 13% of the club's membership came to the Madison Rally. They received the benefit of providing the $60,000 loss. The usual participation in the Internationals has been less that 15%.

The national caravans have only about a 10% membership participation rate. They receive very little funding from the general treasury.

The National Special Event Rallies receive nothing from the International treasury. They have to be all self sustaining and are usually run at a profit to the local unit putting them on. I am not sure what percentage of the overall national membership attend them but they are likely the same people who have the time to participate in the national caravans.

The 80% of the general membership who do not participate in the National events get nothing for their $55 since the benefit of receiving the Blue Beret (up to this year) has been self supporting and therefore a no cost benefit.

[hampstead38]

"In it I stated to you to cut the negative crap and work with our International Board to add 6000 new members to our membership and ensure that they are all leaders. In addition your challenge was to work to ensure that at least 2500 units attended our International Rally. That would totally solve our financial woes."

I really don't know how many units attend the International Rally... but 2500 seems like an awfully big number for an organization with between 6000 and 7000 members. And if my recollection of 2009 membership is correct, an increase of 6000 represent doubling the size of the existing club.

So... all the WBCCI needs to do to "solve its financial woes" is double its membership?

In 1978, the WBCCI had 25,428 members. In the 31 years hence, the organization has lost 75 percent of its members. Airstream has stopped making Class A motorhomes which comprise 20 percent of WBCCI owners. In 2009 (and depending on the data source), the WBCCI will lose between $90,000 and $120,000. When you factor in the declining market share of Airstream travel trailers, the current economy and the meta-trend of declining memberships in social, fraternal and civic organizations, an ambitious goal would be stablizing the WBCCI at current membership levels.

The cold, hard financial reality, however, is it is effectively impossible for the WBCCI to recruit itself out of its financial deficit. Even with sweeping changes to the organization and an exponentially greater effort to retain and recruit members, the club will burn through its cash reserves or be forced to make significant changes, e.g., dramatically cut expenses.

[bob280]

An open letter to the Leadership:

With all due respect, please explain to me how Leo violated his probation when not a single leader has defined to him or any one else what constitutes probation and no one, to the best of my knowledge, has defined or set down the ground rules for his probation. In our society, even a hardened criminal's probation is difined and the ground rules provided. Where is the ethics and honor in what the "Cartel" has done do Leo.

By the way the Club's Constitution states that anything not covered in the Constitution or By-Laws is dcovered by RRONR. And since the appearl of a probation is not covered by the By-Laws, RRONR applies and it very clearly provides the form, fit, and function for appealing a probation. Do I detect direlection of duty on the part of someone in our leadership?

There are thoses who are claiming that Leo violated his probation. OK, fine, now please tell me the exect violation and where in the letter to him that defined that rule or item which they say he vilation. Oh! you can not. I thought so.

By the way according to the grievance article, a grievance can only be filed against a member because an incident that happens at an International, regional or unit activity or function (If anyone thinks differently, they should go talk to a poffessor who deals in legal english) the airforum and savewally forum do not, i my opinion, qualify. So it appears that the grievance was inproper in the first place and the probation a miss-carrage of justice, ethics and fairness.

For shame on those involved (in my opinion)

All of the above is my "differing opinion" on this whole sorry affair!!!

Bob T
WBCCI # 280 -- 34 year member

[Goin camping]

This whole affair is just sorry.

It's embarrassing to the members. The International looks childish and petulant and worst of all it demeans a great Club.

Just sad and sorry.

I encourage all who disagree with the direction of our club to start or continue the process to change or delete bylaws and elect members who you feel best reflect your beliefs. Rust never sleeps or slackens and neither should you.

[big_john]

Wow! As a brand new Airstreamer and having actually inquired as to the process of becoming a WBCCI member this is eye opening. Kinda like seeing the sorry underbelly of what otherwise looked so promising. I am actually saddened that I happened upon this post.

I will rethink my application and just go camping and be friendly to others...red numbers or not.

Though I will proudly display my blue 41001.

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by big_john

Wow! As a brand new Airstreamer and having actually inquired as to the process of becoming a WBCCI member this is eye opening. Kinda like seeing the sorry underbelly of what otherwise looked so promising. I am actually saddened that I happened upon this post.

I will rethink my application and just go camping and be friendly to others...red numbers or not.

Though I will proudly display my blue 41001.

There is a huge disconnect between the International and the Unit.

The unit level is where you make lifetime friends and have tons of fun. Don't pass up that opportunity.

The International level has issues that will be solved and doesn't have anything to do with enjoying your unit and the people you will meet.