DEF error nightmare

[LB_3]

At this point I would be tempted to have a tuner disable the emission system.

[sheakev]

This is a scary risk for anyone who wants to journey off the beaten path. We are planning on driving to Alaska in 2019. I now want the ability to reset, bypass, or override the emissions system if something happens on the AL-Can Highway.

I understand the implications of potentially voiding warranties, but being stranded hundreds of miles from a Sprinter dealer because of a sensor defect, or programming error leaves one no choice.

So any ideas how one knows for sure which device (reader, scanner, chip) can be used to address this?

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by sheakev

.



I understand the implications of potentially voiding warranties, but being stranded hundreds of miles from a Sprinter dealer because of a sensor defect, or programming error leaves one no choice.this?

I certainly don't have the answer but this is a darn interesting question.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

I certainly don't have the answer but this is a darn interesting question.

A Google search will give you lots of options. Be sure to read the fine print....

[InterBlog]

Suggestion:

If you have a good working relationship with a certified Sprinter servicer, you could ask them whether your area has any competent Sprinter mechanics accepting work on the side. Just in case you need something done quickly and perhaps after hours due to your own scheduling constraints. Understanding of course that you intend to have most of your work done at MB itself.

It's not unreasonable to have the name of "Mr. or Ms. Plan B" in your back pocket, especially if you are a DIYer who may intend to make certain mods that are not necessarily within MB's scope of services and that they wouldn't agree to do for you anyway.

For instance, I got a local name for us in preparation for the air suspension system that we ended up not installing (yet?). That project had me nervous and I wanted a Sprinter mechanic to assist the husband and me, for safety reasons if nothing else. Never did use the guy, but it's good to know he's potentially available.

[perryg114]

These things are way to complicated. Their should be a way to fool the computer that the DEF tank is always full. Yes they things need to be reprogrammed to illuminate this particular issue. I am sure there are many other issues as well.

Perry

[billrector]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I've hesitated to post this comment because I know that some folks won't appreciate it, but what the heck.

There IS a foolproof way to completely exit all DEF / emissions-related Sprinter headaches and expenses, and that's to buy a T1N Interstate (model years 2004-2007) which pre-date the requirement. My husband and I have never had a DEF-related repair or failure because our Sprinter lacks the system entirely.

Even if we chose to put our money in a newer Interstate, I would not do that until the DEF system reliability issues were proven to be resoundingly SOLVED, once and for all. What am I going to do -- risk taking such a twitchy machine into rural Canada and potentially be more than 500 miles round trip from the nearest dealer that even pretends to have Sprinter-related service capacity? That is never going to happen.

Also, while we're on the subject of outside references, nobody has yet re-posted this assessment, so here it is (it has appeared on historical threads that address the same topic):

The Fatal Flaw of Mercedes Benz Sprinters

At one time, I considered a Sprinter based motorhome but ended up with a trailer. I had a friend a few weeks ago send me an article on a rumor that Mercedes was going to stop selling diesel engines in the U.S. The article stated that they had not submitted the diesel engines to US authorities for emissions approval for the next model year. Speculation in that article was that they have so many unhappy customers with the emission system of the Sprinter based models that they just decided it was not worth it.

Here is the article....http://driving.ca/mercedes-benz/auto...-north-america

[InterBlog]

But according to the internet (e.g., here), construction of the half-billion-dollar Sprinter plant is still proceeding in South Carolina. And Sprinters are diesel vehicles. It appears that there's information as yet to be uncovered here.

[billrector]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

But according to the internet (e.g., here), construction of the half-billion-dollar Sprinter plant is still proceeding in South Carolina. And Sprinters are diesel vehicles. It appears that there's information as yet to be uncovered here.

They clearly are diesel vehicles today, but maybe they have plans to change that??

[BurntAsphalt]

Out of curiosity I made an inquiry to one of the more well known Sprinter tuners (Green Diesel Engineering) and they said that the 2008 Sprinter is the latest model year that they will do because the newer ones require drilling into the ECU to bench flash it. Guess we'll just keep playing Bluetec Russian Roulette!
(BTW, tuning Sprinters is a volatile topic on the Sprinter-Source forum)

[amirm]

Renntech has tuning for current sprinters and requires no drilling. I have it and it is quite worthwhile despite the high cost. It does not defeat DEF warning though. Only provides more horsepower and torque.

[switz]

My wife has a 2009 E320 CDI sedan that was not a true diesel nor a "DEF" vehicle. In fact, I was charged $250 for getting "DEF" in the vehicle at the first service. I asked them where they put it in the car. Got the $250 back.

Fast forward 8 years and about 50,000 miles and we had a real issue with warnings and drivability. Turned out the exhaust manifold had coked up by the short driving and low power runs she made. (The typical $5,000+ for two weeks wasted labor applied including a new exhaust system as even factory tech support was useless.)

The car needs long hard runs to burn the carbon out of the manifold and all downstream exhaust components. Just like the 2010 to 2012 6.7L Cummins diesels Ram pickups needed hard driving and no short trips. In 2013 Ram had to go to the "DEF" solution. I have a little knowledge of some of the technology work arounds done on the 2010 to 2012 Rams but it would not work on later models.

I have had none of these emission challenges with my 2007 ML320 CDI at 175,000 miles. I plan to rebuild the engine if that becomes necessary rather than trade for a nightmare. Besides, I get 16+ MPG towing the 6,000 pound 2015 23D International Serenity at 55 mph. The 5.5L V8 gas engine of that era had less torque than the 3.0L diesel and got 14 to 16 mpg where I get 28+ mpg with the diesel.

Folks will not gleefully go back to huge displacement gasoline engines in trucks that got two to three miles per gallon in the 70s. (Like the 549 cu in International going into a combo 5 and 4 speed gear box set up with two gear shift levers I had).

MB may try the propane fuel experiment, but the milage is just not as good as diesel and Tesla is years away. Most importantly, we lack the electric infra-structure to have every home fitted with a 200 amp vehicle battery charger in addition to the regular home service.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by BurntAsphalt

(BTW, tuning Sprinters is a volatile topic on the Sprinter-Source forum)

Here, too.

Like amirm, I have the RennTech tune, and wouldn't be without it. I drove my Sprinter/Interstate for over a year before getting the RennTech ECU tune, and the difference in performance before vs. after was both noticeable and welcome. Most especially merging onto the highway from a dead stop at a traffic light; the van accelerates with authority even when pulling a ton and a half of toad.

But back to the OP's dilemma, I'm at a loss to explain the problems he's having with the DEF system. Mine has been virtually trouble-free for 6 years. Had to replace a sensor once, but the replacement has worked flawlessly for years. I've never had to deal with the dreaded "limp-home" mode, and the countdown to immobility has never gotten below 15 starts, and that was only once.

[xrvr]

I thought there was a gasoline option for sprinters years ago?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by avionstream

I thought there was a gasoline option for sprinters years ago?

From 2014 to present, there is a gasoline engine option in Europe, Asia, and Australia: a 1.8 liter supercharged gas engine producing 154 horsepower and 177 lb-ft of torque But it's not available in the US. This is according to Wikipedia, which is not known for its accuracy, so caveat emptor

[xrvr]

3.5 liter v6 was offered at least in 2007, possibly. Google v6 gas in sprinter.

[Bruce B]

I am always amazed at responses people have to stories like this.
While I am sympathetic to the owner of the afflicted Airstream the reality is, all vehicles are subject to the possibility of single part failure.
At my previous working life in the business of maintaining and repairing vehicles we dealt with this every day.
Whether it is sensor in a DEF system, a faulty wire termination, a crankshaft position sensor, a fuel pump relay or maybe even a bit of debris in a mechanical fuel pump check valve, I have seen my share of disabled vehicles. It happens and the result is the same, the vehicle is towed in for repair.
Some of the simplest problems are sometimes not obvious and can result in real frustration too. Failures can be due to many possibilities including but certainly not limited to sporadic runs of faulty parts, poor design or improper maintenance.

A company like Mercedes has the resources and incentive to find and repair this issue. If not there are lemon laws to protect the owner. I see that a representative from Airstream has already responded in this thread too.

There are many miles driven annually by clean diesels in this country, Def systems make it all possible. I am amazed at how clean my own diesel trucks exhaust is and how devoid the truck is of carbon and soot.
I'm sure that once the issue is identified and repaired, this vehicle has a bright future ahead of it.

Bruce

[BurntAsphalt]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

I am always amazed at responses people have to stories like this.
While I am sympathetic to the owner of the afflicted Airstream the reality is, all vehicles are subject to the possibility of single part failure.
At my previous working life in the business of maintaining and repairing vehicles we dealt with this every day.
Whether it is sensor in a DEF system, a faulty wire termination, a crankshaft position sensor, a fuel pump relay or maybe even a bit of debris in a mechanical fuel pump check valve, I have seen my share of disabled vehicles. It happens and the result is the same, the vehicle is towed in for repair.
Some of the simplest problems are sometimes not obvious and can result in real frustration too. Failures can be due to many possibilities including but certainly not limited to sporadic runs of faulty parts, poor design or improper maintenance.

A company like Mercedes has the resources and incentive to find and repair this issue. If not there are lemon laws to protect the owner. I see that a representative from Airstream has already responded in this thread too.

There are many miles driven annually by clean diesels in this country, Def systems make it all possible. I am amazed at how clean my own diesel trucks exhaust is and how devoid the truck is of carbon and soot.
I'm sure that once the issue is identified and repaired, this vehicle has a bright future ahead of it.

Bruce

I am the first to admit that I'm spoiled with the reliability of the vehicles that I drive today. The MB Sprinter engine itself is as bulletproof as they come. I also understand that things break occasionally. My main concern is MB creating a "death penalty" for a non-mission critical system such as emissions that results in a disabled vehicle instead of allowing the customer to drive to have it repaired at his/her convenience. The good old check engine light worked fine by itself for 30 years (yes I know there are folks that do not take appropriate action to address a CEL like they should)

[AirstreamJim]

Originally Posted by BurntAsphalt

My main concern is MB creating a "death penalty" for a non-mission critical system such as emissions that results in a disabled vehicle instead of allowing the customer to drive to have it repaired at his/her convenience.

To be fair, the "death penalty" was not of MB's doing. It's a requirement; both my Jeep diesel and my RAM Cummins diesel have the same enforcement protocol.

Jim

[BurntAsphalt]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

To be fair, the "death penalty" was not of MB's doing. It's a requirement; both my Jeep diesel and my RAM Cummins diesel have the same enforcement protocol.

Jim

True, but my conspiracy theory is that's because Dodge, Jeep, and MB were all owned by Daimler during the time the clean diesel emissions systems were designed.