Airstream reliability

[xrvr]

Why leave the vehicle at the dealership? Have them order the parts and call you when they come in! Unless it is a safety item, it is foolish to let the thing just sit there. Jim

[featherbedder]

I have always done repairs on all my AS as dealers that I dealt with are defunct except Woodland in Grand Rapids Mich. to far to travel for repairs, I will say that they have always been friendly and helpful with ordering parts by ph. They were whom I pur. my new 31ft. 1976 from and last time I talked to them I was still in there system. The only repairs I have pd. for were several boo-boos, fixed at JC was front corner then later rear corner sheet metal that I could not do, rear not happy about as they used steel screws that rusted and reflector that does not match [both jobs very small]

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Why leave the vehicle at the dealership? Have them order the parts and call you when they come in! Unless it is a safety item, it is foolish to let the thing just sit there. Jim

Yes - that's another inconvenience: for warranty work Airstream expects the dealer to see the vehicle first and identify the source of problem before any parts can be ordered.

[avanti]

We loved our '05 Interstate for all the years that we owned it. The design was outstanding for the era. But to suggest that the workmanship was of even average quality would be a joke. I have documented the disgraceful as-delivered workmanship of our van (inside and out) before, so I won't repeat it here. By the time we sold it, we passed on a vehicle in great condition. But it got that way through the sweat of my brow. Early on, I tried getting warranty work done, but it was like pulling teeth and just wasn't worth the hassle, so I ended up fixing everything myself.

There is a current thread on Sprinter-Source on build quality of Thor products, and as stated above, Airstreams are just another Thor brand. We take delivery of our new Great West Legend next week. We'll see how that compares, but we did our research before we choose an upfitter, and I am optimistic that the experience is going to be much better this time. I certainly hope so. We looked carefully at this year's Interstates. (We know what to look for now.) Didn't even make the first cut.

[Gene]

Sadly, some things never change.

When I joined the Forum in 2007, we were looking at Airstreams. The style was cool, Barb really wanted one and we bought the myth of Airstream quality. I noticed some owners were complaining about poor quality, but I was focused on learning about RV's since we had not owned a real one (a brief time with a truck camper, built awfully, had in years past turned me off to RV's).

We looked at them at 2 dealerships and let ourselves get sucked in. The dealership was awful—when we brought it in for warranty work (240 miles each way), they did more damage than fixing. They were difficult to deal with. They had prepared the trailer badly. We had scores of problems. We gave up on them and took the trailer to Ohio (1,400 miles one way) for service at Airstream's Service Center. They did great work—unlike the factory across the street.

Looking at old threads on the Forum I eventually noticed members were complaining about poor quality, cheap materials and bad workmanship since the Forum began. Some problems with Airstreams dated back decades (poor location of water pump in some models, for ex.). I learned the Airstream president had been brought by in Thor as a cost cutter and it showed.

Barb at one point was ready to sell it; she had been in love, but felt betrayed and was tired of the constant problems We held on. I, like others, can fix a lot of things myself. And I made lots of improvements. For ex., I replaced the super cheap paper thin vinyl flooring and sealed the subfloor; the cheap fabric on the cushions quickly looked bad, so we found a seamstress who worked cheap and did good work and replaced it with a high quality vinyl, replaced the crappy tires with Michelins, and the list goes on and on.

After 2 years, the problems pretty much stopped. We've taken the trailer about 45,000 miles and the basic design, perfected long, long ago, is strong. it tows well and is very cool. And we made it through the dark times.

If we were to do it again, I would look at other brands. Airstream is an average brand made by a company with mostly below average brands. Average in RV's means much lower than average in the auto industry. Some of the problems identified years ago got solved, but it took years to make it happen. The company tried to engage owners (the Town Hall thread, possibly disappeared by the mods) and seemed shocked when owners told the truth about all the issues. The company ran away after trying to keep the discussion only about corrosion.

Some will say they never had any problems with their's—good for them. Some will say we who have had problems are just complainers. They love the myth I guess. I could post all our work orders, but why bother? Some say all RV's are not well made, so suck it up—nothing ever gets better with that attitude. Some say Airstreams are well made of great products; many of us disagree.

I'm sorry to hear people are still having problems. When you can sell everything you make, there's little pressure to improve.

Gene

[r carl]

Somewhere around here I read,,,, We don't make changes, only improvements.

[TG Twinkie]

I don't believe A$ has a engineer or designer on their staff.
But they must have a copy machine.
Because they don't appear to make the necessary quality improvements.
So far they still have leaks, but haven't upgraded the flooring material with a product that doesn't rot away.
Just one example of many.

[MeandMB]

Purchased my AI new in Oct 2013, from Colonial, and have NO issues (no problems, no issues and no complaints. Colonial has bee mover the top with any operating questions we have had and with over 21,000 miles on this bad boy and we will buy another Airstream from Colonial in the future. Looked hard at Leisure Travel during the Hershey show and found them to be average or best with the bump out offered in their standard van comical. Good luck it's all good.

Joe

[c21]

I suppose a case could be made for shoddy workmanship on some of the AI's but that can certainly vary from coach to coach and it affects all manufacturers, not just Airstream. One of the things that sold me on the AI over the other Class B's I looked at was the quality of the components that went into the AI's. This starts with the upline Sprinter chassis instead of the base chassis used by some RV manufactures and continues with quality stuff like Lifeline AGM batteries, Magnum Invertor Chargers, Garmin GPS, high efficiency AC/DC frige, thru bolted steel cabinet hinges not to mention the high gloss laminated & lined cabinets, etc, etc. And in the case of my twin model, memory foam pillow top mattresses. If I had it to do over I would wind up with the same coach.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by c21bill

I suppose a case could be made for shoddy workmanship on some of the AI's but that can certainly vary from coach to coach and it affects all manufacturers, not just Airstream. One of the things that sold me on the AI over the other Class B's I looked at was the quality of the components that went into the AI's. This starts with the upline Sprinter chassis instead of the base chassis used by some RV manufactures and continues with quality stuff like Lifeline AGM batteries, Magnum Invertor Chargers, Garmin GPS, high efficiency AC/DC frige, thru bolted steel cabinet hinges not to mention the high gloss laminated & lined cabinets, etc, etc. And in the case of my twin model, memory foam pillow top mattresses. If I had it to do over I would wind up with the same coach.

I completely agree that the design of the Interstate tends to be first rate (although not uniquely so). We bought ours for the same reasons. But we are talking about execution, not design. I also agree that the workmanship can vary from unit to unit. The previous poster, for example, apparently got lucky. I'm glad for him.

But, I don't understand why you say that this "affects all manufacturers." My careful reading of the available evidence is that there are some manufacturers who consistently have much higher levels of owner satisfaction than does Airstream.

IMO, Thor has been coasting along on the stellar Airstream brand for a long time now without consistently delivering the quality needed to sustain it. This game can only be played for so long.

[jkinglet]

Thought I'd chime in. Opposite experience. We love our "new" 2013 AI. Usual battery problem from on-lot time after delivery, but resolved amicably and no money out of my pocket. We've pounded just over 6,000 miles on it since March with no issues -coach or Mercedes. Averaging 18-22 mpg. Adding some upgrades this week including an inside propane switch. Water heater (Atwood) won't ignite at altitude, but just needs a slight adjustment. Parked the AI next to a Winnebago Sprinter (2500) recently and the owners asked for a walk through. Both were ga ga with the quality of the AI interior compared to their 'bago, especially the removable table, bathroom and the mood lighting. They also liked the overall look and finish along with the 1 ton chassis. Too, it's tough to ignore all the compliments as we travel around the northwest. Bottom line..we're delighted.

[c21]

Originally Posted by avanti

I completely agree that the design of the Interstate tends to be first rate (although not uniquely so). We bought ours for the same reasons. But we are talking about execution, not design. I also agree that the workmanship can vary from unit to unit. The previous poster, for example, apparently got lucky. I'm glad for him.

But, I don't understand why you say that this "affects all manufacturers." My careful reading of the available evidence is that there are some manufacturers who consistently have much higher levels of owner satisfaction than does Airstream.

IMO, Thor has been coasting along on the stellar Airstream brand for a long time now without consistently delivering the quality needed to sustain it. This game can only be played for so long.

I base that statement on my previous experiance with 3 travel trailers and 3 motorized rv's. Every one of them came from the factory with a handfull of issues, many of which took two or more trips to the dealer or factory to resolve. Maybe there is a manufacturer out there with a perfect record but I seriously doubt it, after all, there are human beings involved in the assembly of all of them.

[Dungrace]

The reason I had to leave mine at the dealership because it is more than an hour away from my house and the service advisor told me it will get fix by the end of the week. The weekend came and I called her and she said all the parts are not in. I think Holiday World Rv service is so bad when it comes to repairing my Interstate. I told the wifey, if there is one more problem with this Rv I am getting rid of it.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by avanti

IMO, Thor has been coasting along on the stellar Airstream brand for a long time now without consistently delivering the quality needed to sustain it. This game can only be played for so long.

They've been playing the same game for decades and are still getting away with it. People who see our trailer always think they have great quality. If they ask, I correct them. Airstream probably could have sold more Airstreams if the quality were better, but they don't seem to care. Towards the end of the 00's there was an outpouring of complaints about build quality, material quality and design issues on the Forum.

Quite a few people posted that they decided not to buy an Airstream based on the complaints. Assuming others made the same decision, but did not post, Airstream lost millions of dollars, but the response from the company was weak. That was during a period when sales had dropped from about 2,400 units/year to about 700 or 800.

The only heads that rolled at Airstream were those of the marketing people. Actually one person at a time, but for several years one head/year rolled out the door. No one at the factory, just marketing. The Airstream president (really just a division head since Airstream is wholly owned by Thor) had family ties with the CEO of Thor, so he had a sinecure, and even with the CEO having moved on, the cost cutter is still in charge. I have met him and he is quite personable. We had a very long talk about quality and he wrote down a long list of suggestions. I am not aware of any changes. There are some good people at Airstream, especially in customer relations and the Service Center. I was told there is a committee with people from those divisions and the factory that meets regularly. Certainly the people in the shop and customer relations know what the problems are (if you ask the mechanics what they think of build quality, they kind of avoid the answer, but you can tell what they think). It appears the factory people just don't listen.

Thor Industries is well run by today's standards. It has healthy earnings quarter after quarter and has built up a lot of cash. It got through the worst of the Great Recession without problems, even lending $20 M to Camping World at 10% interest. Airstream makes a big profit and gives Thor a reputation for quality. When Wally ran things, they did make improvements, pioneered RV technology and were industry leaders. After he died the company was sold to Beatrice Foods around 1970. Why Beatrice bought the company is beyond understanding, but it is know they cheapened the product and '70's models had some structural problems (rear end separation is best known). The guys who founded Thor bought up Airstream (1980) and other RV manufacturers. They did fix some of the messes made by Beatrice, but eventually succumbed to modern corporate culture—doing everything to bump up stock prices, perpetual cost cutting, marginal quality, minimal reinvestment in the company and paying themselves lots of money. Ironically, by the 00's some models were structurally weakened to save money, and once again rear and front separation occurred costing the company lots of money on repairs.

During a long lifetime I have seen famous and reliable brands go in the toilet. Sears was once a great retailer and had developed trust with good reason. Now the company is being sold off, part by part, with divisions fighting each other for scarce resources. Products have been cheapened and it is a matter of time before they go under. GM made the best production cars and trucks in the 1950's, then started a long decline. Now it is struggling to rebuild trust, have excellent quality and design. These efforts are working (despite the recalls) and GM may regain their long lost reputation. Meanwhile Toyota quality has slipped as sales have increased—are they going the way of GM? So ups and downs are common in the corporate world as zombie leadership often takes over after a phase of excellence and runs the brand into the ground. Some come back from that, others don't. There once were many competing aluminum brands that built better trailers (Silverstreak comes to mind)—maybe they will be resurrected.

We haven't been able to travel far for a few years, so we have had relatively low maintenance. Maybe everything is fixed or improved. Leaks are far less since all the bad sealing from the factory has been fixed. If you've got a new one, hold on and take it to Airstream since they are better than many of the dealers (the dealer network is another sad story) for warranty work. Learn to fix things yourself. After all, most things break on the road when you are defenseless and have no idea where a good RV shop is. I would never take the trailer anywhere without lots and lots of tools. And if you get disgusted and decide to sell fast, you will lose a lot of money on the initial investment.

Gene

[eubank]

Save for one, whose problems were owner caused, I haven't seen any brand new Airstreams with problems here, but have seen lots of brand new SOBs with issues. It gets to the point that you don't even want to have a new one here; it's just like asking for problems. (The one we had here over last weekend had all 25 amp fuses blown. I replaced them all, but the dealer's going to have to figure out why it was blowing them.)

Lynn

[SteveSueMac]

"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory." - W. Edwards Deming

Personally, I'm very happy with my trailer. I love the product. I'm also aware that a company like GM which sells millions of units is going to focus more energy on consistent process, automation and improvements than a company like Thor/Airstream who produces in the thousands.

However - those principles of Six Sigma and Continuous Improvement would be of GREAT benefit to Airstream.

Here's a question - how many of their factory workers own one? They all should - or at least they all should have access to one they can use for 2 weeks/year camping to have direct real world experience with the product - in rain storms, on long trips in very hot areas, etc.

And I would hope the President and many others read these forums to sniff out clues for improvements that could both improve quality and lower the price (oddly enough, those coexist quite well) so they could grow in the market.

Moreover, there is such a wealth of insight from their customers - including deep experts and noobs like me from whom they could mine unbelievably valuable information about quality, evolutionary improvements, revolutionary ideas, and the heritage aspects that shouldn't be changed. Imagine the advocacy that would create!

Then again - survival isn't mandatory...

Again - I'm VERY pleased with the quality, features, and functionality of my trailer and highly recommend it to others. It's befuddling to me to see anyone disappointed with stuff that is a HUGE dissatisfier but something so SIMPLE that could have been caught before leaving production. Really no good excuse for that.

[Gene]

Since Thor doesn't pay workers well and is very anti-union, I doubt any factory worker could afford anything but a very old one and slowly fix it up.

Some people at Airstream do follow the Forum, somewhat quietly.

Gene

[Rich W]

Here's a survey I came across a while back where owners rate their satisfaction with their purchase. Some have reviews from only a few people while others are a much larger sampling. A smaller sample will skew the results. For example, 6 brands had the perfect score of 75, but only 1 reviewer for each of them. On the other hand, Driftwood by Rockwood scored 74.9 and had 72 reviewers.

RV Rating - Customer Survey of RV Makes and Models

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by richw46

Here's a survey I came across a while back where owners rate their satisfaction with their purchase. Some have reviews from only a few people while others are a much larger sampling. A smaller sample will skew the results. For example, 6 brands had the perfect score of 75, but only 1 reviewer for each of them. On the other hand, Driftwood by Rockwood scored 74.9 and had 72 reviewers.

RV Rating - Customer Survey of RV Makes and Models

Very interesting - the statisticians would have a field day interpreting this huge table.
A couple of things that caught my eye:
1) The table purports to address motorhomes only, and yet perhaps 75% of the names on the table are unknown to me.
2) You see Roadtreks everywhere but at this time there re only 42 Roadtrek surveys compared to 103 Airstream surveys. I wonder if that's because only disgruntled owners compete these surveys.

[Rich W]

Toyota is on the list, as well as Ford, Dodge and others. I worked for Toyota. I know they make boats (Japan), manufactured housing (Japan, stack-able prefab housing) and looked at aviation for a while, but never RVs or trailers.

There are also no dates on when the last time the survey was updated. At the very least there should be something that discounts those that have only a few reviews. You can also take the survey a number of times, there's no protection there either. Yeah, all in all, pretty worthless.

Some things are just status symbols, regardless of quality. The Jaguar car has been known to spend as much time in the shop as on the road but then.... it's a Jaguar I'd rather have the Airstream than SOB, warts and all. Ya gotta love when they come up and say "wow, an Airstream! They still make those? Sure looks nice, I've always wanted one...." and so on.