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07-25-2013, 11:53 AM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
1962 24' Tradewind
Saint Louis
, MO
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 106
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Why do new trailers weigh more?
I'm always surprised by how much new Airstreams weigh when compared to the old ones.
My 24 ft 1962 Tradewind originally had a dry weight of 3260#. We did a sort of half-monty that kept the original cabinetry but changed out the appliances and utilities. One one hand, we added A/C, batteries and an inverter. On the other, we took out the metal water tank and the really heavy old appliances. Our trailer now weighs... 3500#, including propane and some water. No big change.
I see that a new 23ft Flying Cloud weighs 4806# with propane only.
What makes the difference? Where does the additional weight come from? More massive furnishings?
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07-25-2013, 12:04 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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The frames are larger in the new ones because the body in the older trailer was the frame. Now the body is an after thought.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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07-25-2013, 12:28 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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It's a lot more than just the frames, which are heavier, but the bodies are bigger (wider and taller), but mostly the interiors are much heavier because of materials used.
The older trailers used very thin wood, and a lot of thin aluminum and plastic for the cabinetry. Now the interior is built from a lot of thicker wood.
I believe this is due to competition from Avion back in the '80's and 90's. Back then Avion had much more room in their trailers and much better quality of cabinetry, and was really cutting into the market, so Airstream had to compete.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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07-25-2013, 01:04 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1984 34' International
Toronto
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,499
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My 1984 34' International weighs in at just over 6200lbs. The cabinetry is really solid, the wardrobes are cedar lined, but with little weight saving touches everywhere.
Also, no Corian countertops.
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07-25-2013, 01:07 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess
My 1984 34' International weighs in at just over 6200lbs. The cabinetry is really solid, the wardrobes are cedar lined, but with little weight saving touches everywhere.
Also, no Corian countertops.
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And, if I remember correctly, an '84 is not a wide body either.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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07-25-2013, 04:36 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,223
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In comparing even the same model year floor plan units like the 27FB, there are weight differences. The Flying Cloud and International models are both 28' long and have a 7,600 pound GVW. The Flying Cloud has a tongue weight of 791 pounds versus the International's 770 pounds. The empty weight of the Flying Cloud is 5,868 pounds while the International empty weight is 5,824 pounds.
The 27FB Classic is 27' 9.5" long with a GVW of 9,000 pounds and a tongue weight of 792 pounds. The empty weight is 6,662 pounds.
I figure the over 800 pound difference in empty weight between the slightly shorter Classic and the other two models is due a complete set of awnings, real hard wood cabinetry and fuzz on the walls, bigger propane tanks and fresh water tank, and heavier rated axles in the Classic.
I might guess the Classic has a stouter frame along with beefier axles.
So, as the customers have wanted more space, entertainment systems including two TV sets, bigger A/C units and furnace, upgraded plumbing and more water capacity in all three versions, stuff got heavier.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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07-27-2013, 06:45 AM
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#7
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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I believe this is due to competition from Avion back in the '80's and 90's. Back then Avion had much more room in their trailers and much better quality of cabinetry, and was really cutting into the market, so Airstream had to compete.
__________________
The overlap in design extends to all three manufacturers through 1990 (the final year of production of all three brands), as Silver Streak also shows influence from others. A comparison of brochures from any given year will highlight this. The big difference used to be in usable storage space, but this declined in re SS by the time the late '80's redesign was implemented. Folks are fooled by "open space" in a TT of this type; it's rather counterproductive to full-timing.
For A/S the increase in capacities (water, etc) is part of it, as is a better frame. The wider body allows for larger cabinetry (and more of it).
There is no real excuse for increased weight, except that it was easier and cheaper to add to an existing design than starting from a clean sheet. Brakes are no where near what they ought to be on these trailers, but "critter comforts" have made for some truly porky "aero" TT's (where reduced horsepower demand was practically the strongest design goal at the outset).
Cars became pitiful in terms of HP/weight ratios (they have since recovered), but trucks are the default choice now even for their inherent deficiencies.
An A/S is now a less economical TT to own if one mates it to a high operational cost TV. That didn't used to be the case. In relative terms the TT is cheaper now than it used to be, is the irony. The market used to be more exclusive (single income family with more time off), but much has changed since the peak year of 1973.
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07-28-2013, 06:20 PM
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#8
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WBCCI 8562
1975 31' Sovereign
Pelzer
, South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 225
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I tell folks the dry weight of my Sovereign is about 5000 lbs. They are surprised. Then ask them "in 1975 what would you tow this with?" Family sedan/station wagon. In exchange I get the light frame and the plastic/aluminum interior.
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07-28-2013, 06:54 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
2008 16' Safari
Destrehan
, Louisiana
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 395
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I've got a Sport 17' it weighs in at 2800 lb. Compare to a 1960 Bambi 16" that weighed in at 2250 lb. For the extra 550 lb; I get AC, a full size bath, TV and a microwave. Not bad. So you see that they really don't weigh any more if you compare modern narrow body trailers to old narrow body trailers.
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08-07-2013, 01:30 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2020 30' Classic
Derwood
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,515
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Trailers weigh more when new because of that "new smell" - as that odor escapes the trailer over time and it get's older, it becomes lighter!
__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2020 30’ Airstream Classic
**I Love U.S.A.**
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08-07-2013, 01:38 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFScheck
Trailers weigh more when new because of that "new smell" - as that odor escapes the trailer over time and it get's older, it becomes lighter!
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Now that's FUNNY!
Here I thought it was all the GREEN technology that removes more GREEN from bank account.. Kinda rolling Ft. Knocks (intentional misspell )
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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08-07-2013, 01:48 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Hoover
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,530
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" Why do new trailers weigh more?"
for the most part, it has to do with likely the sea of higgs boson particles (ie the "higgs field") interacting with the much ligher things like neutrons and protons.
In conclusion...the newer airstreams interact to a greater degree with the higgs field.
__________________
“The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them...We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.”
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08-07-2013, 01:53 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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My '74 Argosy 20' has a total weight, axle and tongue (scales, actual measure) of 4160# as I normally travel with it.
My '14 Airstream FC 20' has a total weight of 4920# axle and tongue (again scale measured).
The Argosy has a 4" frame, the AS a 5" frame.
Where is the 740 extra pounds? I would expect mostly in the cabinets and interior wood parts. The Argosy has very light weight cabinets. Otherwise, both have awnings, AC, same size refrigerators, and so on. I love them both the same....lol.
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08-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Do you weigh the same as you did 30 years ago?
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08-07-2013, 02:09 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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I figured it's due to all the gold bars they use for ballast. Also explains the high costs.
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08-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
I figured it's due to all the gold bars they use for ballast. Also explains the high costs.
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Gold? Gold? Oh boy! (runs out and starts ripping underbelly off of the 2014 Flying Cloud). Wheeeee!
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08-07-2013, 03:03 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Hoover
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
I figured it's due to all the gold bars they use for ballast. Also explains the high costs.
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Well that is re-assuring...because this explanation will give reassurance to some family that assert my "craziness" for overpaying for this hunk of metal....it all makes sense now...
__________________
“The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them...We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.”
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08-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1962 24' Tradewind
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek
" Why do new trailers weigh more?"
for the most part, it has to do with likely the sea of higgs boson particles (ie the "higgs field") interacting with the much ligher things like neutrons and protons.
In conclusion...the newer airstreams interact to a greater degree with the higgs field.
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Props for using Bozons in casual conversation! Next task: explain, using Maxwell's equations, why light particles reflected off Airstream aluminum cause fluctuations in time
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08-07-2013, 03:50 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Bigger holding tanks, particle board cabinets, solid counter tops are probably alot of the extra weight. Everything is made of particle board these days and it is alot heavier than plastic coated plywood that is in my trailer. The new stuff may look like real wood but most likely it is particle board with a veneer on it. Real wood doors or real wood on top of particle board is heavier than the tambour stuff.
Perry
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08-07-2013, 08:43 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2012 25' FB International
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 118
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Everything in my 2012 International is made of plywood - I didn't see any particleboard during the factory tour.
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