Share Your Real World Tongue Weights & Trailer Weights

[interstateflyer]

Originally Posted by southsaglejim

I recently went over the scales to weigh all three axles on my F250 6 liter diesel pulling the 32 ft Excella. With a weight bearing hitch setup and not an equalizer setup my front axle was 4450, rear axle was 4750 and the trailer axle was 6350 with luggage and some camp gear. My total wt of 15,550 was well under my max capacity of 21,000 and the truck axle wts were also within maximums. After that weighing I have now put on the equalizer hitch so I am interested in how the distribution might be different.

I went over the CAT scales on our way to Oregon three weeks ago. The 2013 Dodge RAM 1500 Hemi 5.7 had 7/8 tank of fuel and a light load under the bed cap. The 2014 23D was reasonably packed for 2 weeks and 1/8 tank of water.

The RAM was 3340 in front, 3560 rear and 5120 over the trailer axles. That's 28%, 30% and 42%. I'm using a Huskey WD System with 800 pound bars. The tongue weight before we left was 780.

I noticed that southsaglejim weight distribution was 28.5%, 30.5% and 41%. That is very similar to mine.

Rod Dixon's were closer to 22%, 30% and 48%.

The Airstream owner's manual suggests that the proper installation should be 33%, 33% and 34%......maybe with a Bambi.

[Rod Dixon]

I have not got the official report from RVSF, they mail it to me. This report was given to me as a print out while being weighted. This was the first trip with this truck, hitch and trailer combo. Will have to work with adjustment.
Trailer is within bubble on a 2' level placed on the floor inside door of trailer
when hooked up. I am going to do more measuring when on level ground with truck and trailer. Where I park trailer, the trailer is level but when I back up to hitch the truck nose is slightly down hill. Would like input from others with more knowledge about this hitch and set up.
Thanks Rod Dixon

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

The RAM was 3340 in front, 3560 rear and 5120 over the trailer axles. That's 28%, 30% and 42%. I'm using a Huskey WD System with 800 pound bars. The tongue weight before we left was 780.

I noticed that southsaglejim weight distribution was 28.5%, 30.5% and 41%. That is very similar to mine.

Rod Dixon's were closer to 22%, 30% and 48%.

The Airstream owner's manual suggests that the proper installation should be 33%, 33% and 34%......maybe with a Bambi.

Your percentages -- 28%, 30%, 42% -- are for your distribution of gross combination weight.

I believe the numbers which you found in the Airstream's owner's manual are for the distribution of tongue weight.

There is no reason to expect the distribution based on GCW will be similar to Airstream's distribution based on TW.
And, there's no reason to expect the distribution based on GCW will be similar for different TV/TT combinations.
For many combinations, the load on the TT's axles will be more than 50% of the GCW.

Ron

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Rod Dixon

I have not got the official report from RVSF, they mail it to me. This report was given to me as a print out while being weighted. This was the first trip with this truck, hitch and trailer combo. Will have to work with adjustment.
Trailer is within bubble on a 2' level placed on the floor inside door of trailer
when hooked up. I am going to do more measuring when on level ground with truck and trailer. Where I park trailer, the trailer is level but when I back up to hitch the truck nose is slightly down hill. Would like input from others with more knowledge about this hitch and set up.

Rod, the scales numbers in your previous post indicate there was little or no load distribution.
Using assumed dimensions for your TV/TT, the axle loads indicated a tongue weight of 846# with 21# being transferred to the TT's axles.
It appears the TT was "nose down" when weighed because the front axle load was 3900# and the rear was 3050#. This would cause the indicated TW to be less than actual.

For your 2004 2500HD, Chevrolet specifies that the front end height, when hitched with WD applied, should be the same as when unhitched.
That implies that the front axle loads should be about the same before and after.

Please note that Chevrolet's WDH-adjustment specification would give a distribution of tongue weight of approximately 0% on the front axle, 80% on the rear axle, and 20% on the TT axles -- significantly different from the values of 33%/33%/34% attributed to an Airstream Owners's Manual.

Ron

[interstateflyer]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Your percentages -- 28%, 30%, 42% -- are for your distribution of gross combination weight.

I believe the numbers which you found in the Airstream's owner's manual are for the distribution of tongue weight.

There is no reason to expect the distribution based on GCW will be similar to Airstream's distribution based on TW.
And, there's no reason to expect the distribution based on GCW will be similar for different TV/TT combinations.
For many combinations, the load on the TT's axles will be more than 50% of the GCW.

Ron

Ron
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure how Airstream expects new owners to determine tongue weight distribution. Most will probably do what I did, have a loaded-for-camping CAT scale one-time weighing done and stare at it for a while. For us, everything looked to be within RAM and Airstream specs The results showed the TV's front and rear axles to be very close, 220 more on the rear.

My method for creating a satisfying towing experience with my 2013 RAM 1500 and 2014 23D was to:

1. Ditch the 1200 pound WD bars installed by the A/S dealer.
2. Install the 800 pound bars left over from my 19' Bambi.
3. Replace the 14 inch wheels with 15s. Beside opening up an opportunity for
better tires, the resulting higher ground clearance made the setup more
"tunable"
4. Buy a Sherline tongue scale and load to achieve a weight close to AS
specs (720).
5. install Airlift 1000 coil spring air bags in TV and run at 20psi (of 35psi
max).
6. Adjust the WD system until the trailer (loaded) was level, TV (loaded)
front and rear were level, and the steering "PUSH" was eliminated.

At some point I'll probably make the 100 mile round trip to the CAT scale for a more in depth weighing session.

I certainly appreciate all of the help given in the AirForums.

A/S dealers and A/S factory tech support in setup matters is frighteningly inadequate.

Most new owners hook up and hope for the best. Many of them bought into Airstream's contention that an Airstream trailer should be towable by a 1/2 ton truck or suv......a TV segment that needs a lot more setup attention than a heavier 3/4 ton in most instances.

[Adiredneck]

I ordered and received the Sherline shortly after my prior post, but my A/S was down in Gulfport for some warranty work (cracked FW tank), so I didn't get to try it out. Results of today's weigh in showed 900# tongue weight, with the TT dead level front to back (per the stick-on bubble levels, anyway). All tanks are empty, one propane tank full, the other at 1/2. The manufacture weight sticker says it weighed 6509 at the factory, and the literature for a 2014 27FB Classic Limited says the base weight (w/ LP, w/o water or cargo) should be 6672 and "hitch weight" (also w/ LP and w/o water or cargo) should be 792.

At 900# "dry weight" I guess I need to watch what/where we pack. We don't bring all that much, as a two-week vacation is the extent of all trips, and I don't see us exceeding the 2491 lbs of allowable cargo/fluids per weight sticker (9000#GVW).

We're heading out for a trip next month, and I will weigh her again when she is loaded with clothes, food, gear and around 25% filled FW tank. I also want to hit some CAT scales on our trip to get some axle weights for both TV and TT. Anything else I should be watching or aware of?

PS - dumb newbie off-subject question: I'd like to check the torque on A/S lug nuts, but they have aluminum snap caps over them. Is there a trick to popping them off so I can put a socket on them without breaking/bending them?
__________________________________________________ _____

2014 Classic Limited 27FB, Equilizer hitch with 1000# bars
2001 Dodge 2500HD Reg Cab/8' box with 24v Cummins TD/5pd stck

[dkottum]

adiredneck, just put the socket right on those capped lug nuts, no way to snap the covers off. The caps will probably get a little loose on the lug nuts so it looks like the whole thing is loose. Crappy product.

Many of us replaced them with chrome plated lug nuts, an inexpensive upgrade.

[Rod Dixon]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Rod, the scales numbers in your previous post indicate there was little or no load distribution.
Using assumed dimensions for your TV/TT, the axle loads indicated a tongue weight of 846# with 21# being transferred to the TT's axles.
It appears the TT was "nose down" when weighed because the front axle load was 3900# and the rear was 3050#. This would cause the indicated TW to be less than actual.

For your 2004 2500HD, Chevrolet specifies that the front end height, when hitched with WD applied, should be the same as when unhitched.
That implies that the front axle loads should be about the same before and after.

Please note that Chevrolet's WDH-adjustment specification would give a distribution of tongue weight of approximately 0% on the front axle, 80% on the rear axle, and 20% on the TT axles -- significantly different from the values of 33%/33%/34% attributed to an Airstream Owners's Manual.

Ron

Ron,

I have 3/4 fuel in truck, propane full and almost half full fresh water.
Dealer installed a 10,000lb hitch with 1000lb spring bars. Had to install on
my Sportchassis Freightliner to hall trailer home as I traded in a 5th. wheel. This was first time I had used the Chevy. What adjustment do I need to do to the hitch for use on the Chevy. Should I add more washers,
raise ball, ect. Have never adjusted a W/D hitch before. Help. Would like to
get it right when adjustments are made. Please make suggestions on form
or send me a PM.
Thanks Rod

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Rod Dixon

---What adjustment do I need to do to the hitch for use on the Chevy. Should I add more washers,
raise ball, ect. Have never adjusted a W/D hitch before. Help. Would like to
get it right when adjustments are made. Please make suggestions on form
or send me a PM.

Rod, since Chevrolet specifies 100% restoration of front-axle load for your 2004 Silverado -- that would be my recommendation as well.

What type of WDH are you using. In general, to achieve more load restoration, you can increase the rearward tilt of the hitch head and/or decrease the number of lift-chain links under tension or raise the L-brackets (if using an Equal-i-zer brand WDH).
We can provide more suggestions if the type/brand of WDH is known.

You should move the hitch head up or down to keep the trailer parallel with the pavement.

Measuring the height of the front wheelwell opening relative to the pavement and keeping the height the same before hitching and after hitching with WD applied can speed up the process of WDH adjustment.
When you think you have it right, a trip to the scales will tell you if you've met your load transfer objective and also tell you how your loaded weights compare with ratings.

Ron

[Rod Dixon]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Rod, since Chevrolet specifies 100% restoration of front-axle load for your 2004 Silverado -- that would be my recommendation as well.

What type of WDH are you using. In general, to achieve more load restoration, you can increase the rearward tilt of the hitch head and/or decrease the number of lift-chain links under tension or raise the L-brackets (if using an Equal-i-zer brand WDH).
We can provide more suggestions if the type/brand of WDH is known.

You should move the hitch head up or down to keep the trailer parallel with the pavement.

Measuring the height of the front wheelwell opening relative to the pavement and keeping the height the same before hitching and after hitching with WD applied can speed up the process of WDH adjustment.
When you think you have it right, a trip to the scales will tell you if you've met your load transfer objective and also tell you how your loaded weights compare with ratings.

Ron

Ron, I am using the Equai-l-zer with L brackets. Will work on adjustments and then post results. Have to go about 30 miles to get to scales. Thanks for the input.
Rod

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Rod Dixon

Ron, I am using the Equai-l-zer with L brackets. Will work on adjustments and then post results. Have to go about 30 miles to get to scales. Thanks for the input.

Rod, if you don't have the setup instructions for the Equal-i-zer, you can find the current version here.
Please note they specify that you should eliminate between 50% and 100% of the front-end rise.

Since Chevrolet says to eliminate 100% of the rise for your TV, I would shoot for that -- just ensure the front end is not heavier when hitched with WD applied versus when unhitched.

If your front suspension has the rubber "bumpers" which limit downward suspension travel, it is important that the front end is not dropped below the unhitched height.

Ron

[switz]

I ordered these replacement lug nuts directly from McGard along with a locking nut for each wheel.

McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts (1/2" - 20 Thread Size)

phone 800-444-5847

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by switz

I ordered these replacement lug nuts directly from McGard along with a locking nut for each wheel.

McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts (1/2" - 20 Thread Size)

phone 800-444-5847

Thanks switz. I noticed my fake caps are cracking. Would just rather replace them with something solid.

[Adiredneck]

Originally Posted by switz

I ordered these replacement lug nuts directly from McGard along with a locking nut for each wheel.

McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts (1/2" - 20 Thread Size)

phone 800-444-5847

Thanks, Switz. It felt like the caps were starting to strip and spin on the lug when I put the socket and torque wrench on them - impossible to get a true reading. I'll get a set of these to replace them.

Tim

[cwf]

810# on our 34'. Fully loaded and running.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by southsaglejim

I recently went over the scales to weigh all three axles on my F250 6 liter diesel pulling the 32 ft Excella. With a weight bearing hitch setup and not an equalizer setup my front axle was 4450, rear axle was 4750 and the trailer axle was 6350 with luggage and some camp gear. My total wt of 15,550 was well under my max capacity of 21,000 and the truck axle wts were also within maximums. After that weighing I have now put on the equalizer hitch so I am interested in how the distribution might be different.

Jim, glad to see your information with the same trailer, or weights are.

4460 Front
4780 Rear
7880 Trailer
17120 Total

We are setup for full time so our trailer is packed to the max. All holding tanks were empty, fresh water 3/4 full and propane down to only 1/4 of full (1/2 in one tank). Truck was 7/8 full. When I registered the truck DMV wanted a weight to calculate fees. With a full tank it weighed 7200.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by cwf

810# on our 34'. Fully loaded and running.

Just curious, what is your loaded trailer weight?
Thanks!

[cwf]

Originally Posted by rostam

Just curious, what is your loaded trailer weight?
Thanks!

9120# with 50 gallons fresh water aboard, two batteries and Bout 50 pounds of LP..(one 40# tank partially used) , all food, clothes, assorted wines... For 4 days. ( fridge was almost full). Had clothes for Sunday, too.

My wife remarked...(oh, so I can put more in the AS!!!????).. Uh, no, sweetie!!!

[slowmover]

Finally got around to reading this. Nothing quite like a stable wifi connection to brave the longer threads.

From a post in a thread switz started where I tried to convince him to get the best hitch receiver for a DODGE (Drawtite #45299) as he was mumuring something about hitch ball height, but he went ahead and got the CURT -409 (just looked it up).

I dragged the new TT 462-miles home sans WDH through the ice & snow of the first 150-miles in late December of '12. Stopped in Hillsboro for diesel and found this:

CAT Scale:

Solo (driver, full fuel, normal load)

FA - 4220
RA - 3760
7,980 (solo, new, was 6,860-lbs)

Hitched:

FA - 3820
RA -5340
TT - 6540
15,700


" . . . in addition to the axle loads, please post approximate values for:
1] the TV's wheelbase,
161"

2] the distance from the ball to the TV's rear axle, and,
84" 76" on the old TT

3] the distance from the ball to the midpoint between the TT's axles."
255" Same as old TT.

4] Bar length is the H/A 35+/-

RG, glad to see you're having fun over here. Is there enough data to make some surmises about this TT (parked as it is for yet more foreseeable future)? Leverage is the real question. I had a heckuva time trying to get FALR with the last TT (same brand, older, different design, shorter). Got about zip, in fact.

Nickcrowhurst was good enough to apply his spreadsheet to that old combined rig problem. That TT (a model 3411 [34' vs 35' now]) had a TW of 980-lbs

I've a ways to go with this new combined rig. Same truck, but truck suspension height changes will occur; the above best hitch receiver; new taller trailer tires, new TT springs and maybe either an extended length equalizer or altogether new axles of a different type. Etc. Thus a PRO PRIDE sourced adjustable H/A stinger in the meantime. I can adjust away as changes occur. Then, once all is set, an exchange stinger and cut/drill to suit.

TW always is the problem. Even with a full frame vintage kin Silver Streak. The adjustable stinger is long and the garage monkey installed the cheap CURT receiver too far back. An inch here, an inch there, whoa, I'm really stretched from RA to hitch ball right now.

And the hitched scale reading was with a nose-down TT. At least 4", maybe 5". I'm thinking that TW will be more around 1250-1300 once loaded. I might get up past 1400, but we'll see. I figure even with WD applied I'll still be at/near 1k at the receiver hitch.

Thanks

Ross

.

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Is there enough data to make some surmises about this TT (parked as it is for yet more foreseeable future)? Leverage is the real question. I had a heckuva time trying to get FALR with the last TT (same brand, older, different design, shorter). Got about zip, in fact.

---

And the hitched scale reading was with a nose-down TT. At least 4", maybe 5". I'm thinking that TW will be more around 1250-1300 once loaded. I might get up past 1400, but we'll see. I figure even with WD applied I'll still be at/near 1k at the receiver hitch.

Ross, your scales data indicate a tongue weight of 1316# with 136# transferred to the TT's axles giving a net load addition of 1580# on the TV. The numbers also indicate a FALR of about 42%.
However, since the TT was nose down by about 4-5", both the tongue weight and the load transferred to the TT probably are larger than the indicated values.

Have you considered switching to a High Rise Ball?
If you lift the coupler by 2", relative to the hitch head, you should get a significant increase in load transfer.

Ron