Share Your Real World Tongue Weights & Trailer Weights

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Remember, not all, of PP nor HAHA installed hardware is calculated in tongue weight. It is all calculated in receiver weight...plus the stinger.

Thanks dznf0g - that's always confusing to me. Do you have an "explanation for dummies" on this concept? Clearly, 100% of the PP weight goes somewhere. I believe (from memory not my manual) the "hitch weight" on the 27FB Flying Cloud was 791# (call it 800 for simplicity) empty. It also said it was 5800# dry weight from the factory but fully loaded for camping I'm at 5800-5880 depending on the day I weigh it (multiple times, always fully loaded, always in that range). So I assumed the 200# or so of PP counted toward tongue weight getting me to 1000 and the balance must be the portion of "stuff" we carry in front of the axles?

A layman's explanation would be so helpful!! :-)

[Denis4x4]

My '06 Safari 25 FB with a Propride and stinger.... tongue weight was 1050# on a Shurline scale. Trailer is 6280# with propane, a few gallons of water and food.

[AirHeadsRus]

My TW as shown above also included the Ha Ha and stinger.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Thanks dznf0g - that's always confusing to me. Do you have an "explanation for dummies" on this concept? Clearly, 100% of the PP weight goes somewhere. I believe (from memory not my manual) the "hitch weight" on the 27FB Flying Cloud was 791# (call it 800 for simplicity) empty. It also said it was 5800# dry weight from the factory but fully loaded for camping I'm at 5800-5880 depending on the day I weigh it (multiple times, always fully loaded, always in that range). So I assumed the 200# or so of PP counted toward tongue weight getting me to 1000 and the balance must be the portion of "stuff" we carry in front of the axles?

A layman's explanation would be so helpful!! :-)

Don't think of it as disappearing weight. It is just assigning the weight where it belongs.
Tongue weight is a trailer spec indicating the load that the tongue is designed to handle
Receiver weight is the weight that the receiver is designed to handle.

Would an owner of a Reese or Eq install the head into the coupler before weighing the tongue? Of course not. The hitch head is not a load on the tongue (but is on the receiver) but, rather the coupler rests on the hitch head at a weight equal to the actual trailer tongue weight.

Just because a PP or HAHA is permanently mounted to the coupler doesn't change the above example. When the PPP is hitched up the tongue weight rests on the ball.

So, that makes just taking a scale reading of the PPP loaded tongue artificially high.

To determine the trailer tongue load I subtract 125 pounds.

Logic: (from memory here) My HAHA weighs 190 pounds - stinger at 20#=170

Since the bars are supported at one end by the tongue and the HAHA head at the other, I include 50% of their weight (10# each) as tongue weight. Also the struts are the same as the spring bars at 10# each X 50%

170# - 10# -10# = 150#

The jacks and strut brackets weight 25#, leaving 125# hanging out on the end of the coupler, which is not tongue weight, BUT IS RECEIVER WEIGHT.

So when I measure tongue weight on the scale with the PPP stuff all on the A frame, I subtract that 125#s from the scale reading.

BUT! to verify I am OK on receiver weight I add it all back in. This way I have met AS's spec AND the receiver/vehicle spec.

Make sense, or have I mucked it all up for you?

Don't get hung up on the math...I have it on a spreadsheet somewhere as I actually weighed the HAHA components, but the bottom line is all of the jacks and strut brackets + 50% of the spring bars and struts ARE tongue weight. None of the head/box or stinger and the other 50% of the bars and struts are tongue weight.

[Bill M.]

1988 25' Excella. When hitched and loaded to travel there is 5600 lbs on the axles and 800 lbs added to the truck. 800 lb load bars with enough weight transfer so that the truck is 160 lbs light on the front when hitched. 2500 Dodge Diesel. Sticker on the trailer says 6800 gross, 6300 axles.

[Larry C]

The Sherline tongue weight scale arrived yesterday, today, I had a surprise....My 2001 30' Excella tongue weight was 775 pounds. I thought it would be more. The trailer was unloaded when I weighed the tongue.

I have weighed several times when we're loaded and ready to travel, and it always
comes in at 9,000 # (+ -). I've never weighed it empty, but I'm guessing that it would be somewhere around 8,100 to 8,300.

We'll be leaving in a few weeks for a couple month trip, I'll weigh before leaving when we're packed and ready to go.....I'm thinking, I'll be somewhere close to the 9 to 12% tongue weight.

If anyone out there has a 30 Excella, it would be interesting to know how we compare.

Larry

[SteveSueMac]

I don't think you've mucked it up, dzn - but I'm still muddy...

My receiver says its limit is 1500# - so I'm comfortable there at a tongue weight of 1080. But my AS manual says tongue should not exceed 1000# (or in any case, the capacity of the receiver - which in my case is 50% above that figure...which sounds like a weasel clause...).

Are you saying you subtract some portion (125# for the Haha) of the calculated TW? If so, is that because you're saying those portions you deduct are carried by the RECEIVER and not on the BALL?

I'm not sure I really get this! :-/

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I don't think you've mucked it up, dzn - but I'm still muddy...

My receiver says its limit is 1500# - so I'm comfortable there at a tongue weight of 1080. But my AS manual says tongue should not exceed 1000# (or in any case, the capacity of the receiver - which in my case is 50% above that figure...which sounds like a weasel clause...).

Are you saying you subtract some portion (125# for the Haha) of the calculated TW? If so, is that because you're saying those portions you deduct are carried by the RECEIVER and not on the BALL?

I'm not sure I really get this! :-/

EXACTLY! In your hypothetical case, your AS tongue weight is actually 955#s..and you comply with AS spec. Some might not see the sense in this, but I like you went over 1000# when I added my bikes and Arvika rack. I had some serious recalculating and shuffling of gear to get back to 950#.

If you added the stinger weight to what you measured at 1080...then you'd have actual receiver weight. In my case, I have RockTamers in the figure as well.

[rodsterinfl]

Well I may be a little over what the book says but the dealer told me that my car could tow anything!

My tongue weight is 980 lbs with LP (CAT) trailer weight is 5050 empty (25')

The 45' Palacaide model in my avatar? Well it'll take down any 1/2 ton!

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

EXACTLY! In your hypothetical case, your AS tongue weight is actually 955#s..and you comply with AS spec. Some might not see the sense in this, but I like you went over 1000# when I added my bikes and Arvika rack. I had some serious recalculating and shuffling of gear to get back to 950#.

If you added the stinger weight to what you measured at 1080...then you'd have actual receiver weight. In my case, I have RockTamers in the figure as well.

Yes the stinger was in the receiver and connected to the trailer.

I'm going to back to your explanation and see if I can see WHY you've isolated certain parts to the receiver vs tongue. Since so much of the PP sits on the tongue, it's hard to understand why portions of that weight aren't pushing down on the ball...I couldn't feel more dense right now :-)

[ghaynes755]

If you think about the setup of the ProPride the actual trailer tongue is simply setting on the Ball that is part of the ProPride. So if you know the weight of the ProPride Head with all of its components (maybe Shawn could tell us) then easy from from the CAT scale Ron weighing method and the spreadsheet that I have out there someplace on the forum to take the calculated 'tongue weight', subtract the PP hardware and get pretty close to the weight of a naked tongue.

[rodsterinfl]

subtract the PP hardware and get pretty close to the weight of a naked tongue.

I can probably tell the pro pride hitch weight you since I have weights of my pre- propride and with propride. I just have to find the older CAT scale printouts.

Just looked, it is at the trailer. Will have to post later.

[SteveSueMac]

Based on this photo of my setup, what parts of the PP don't count toward tongue weight? Even though some portion of it extends beyond the coupler/ball (toward the TV), it's all bolted on the a-frame/tongue.

Sorry to be this slow - I get that we're saying some weight sits "on the ball" and some "in the receiver" - I'm just not seeing where and WHY those distinctions are made.

[rodsterinfl]

what parts of the PP don't count toward tongue weight?

Good question to pose SteveSueMac, the hitch is always counted in the tongue weight as per my trusty 4th edition of RV Handbook. It is payload.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

Good question to pose SteveSueMac, the hitch is always counted in the tongue weight as per my trusty 4th edition of RV Handbook. It is payload.

Yes it is part of payload, but when parsing an AS tongue max and a receiver max it is important to each respective spec. When everybody had 50lb hitches the phrase tongue weight was used by receiver manufacturers and trailer manufacturers as one and the same....who cares about 50lbs. It's within the engineering tolerance margin...probably. But then along comes 200 lb hitches and it becomes an issue...thats 20% of a class 4 receiver capacity...it's significant. So we need to be talking about tongue weight and receiver weight separately...at least those of us with big arse hitches and big arse mudflaps hanging back there.

[SteveSueMac]

Apologies to the OP - I'm afraid my density has caused me to hijack your thread. Perhaps the mods could help us re-establish a "what is tongue weight" thread - or even move these parts to the Unofficial PP User Guide so the OP can keep collecting the data he's looking for.

Apologies for the hijack!

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Based on this photo of my setup, what parts of the PP don't count toward tongue weight? Even though some portion of it extends beyond the coupler/ball (toward the TV), it's all bolted on the a-frame/tongue.

Sorry to be this slow - I get that we're saying some weight sits "on the ball" and some "in the receiver" - I'm just not seeing where and WHY those distinctions are made.

Attachment 215679

Ok, imagine your stinger is in the receiver AND the box/head are attached to the stinger BUT you were unhitched from the ball at the coupler and the coupler was just behind the ball. Also imagine the struts in HAHA case and the spring bars, (and the chains and umbilical, if you really want to get picky) magically stretched so they were still connected to the tongue and the head.
All of the weight of the head/box are on the receiver--none on the tongue.
since the struts and spring bars are bridging and are suspended by both the tongue and the head--it is a percentage split of weight shared between the two, I swag it at 50-50. All of the jacks and bracketry are still on the tongue and all part of tongue weight. I'll look at pic and parse it for PP since you don't have struts.

[dznf0g]

Boy, having a bit of trouble with your pic, but I think, from memory, almost all of your yoke weight would be tongue weight...maybe 5 - 10lbs would be receiver weight.

[thehandyman]

Last weight trip had 3500lb on the axles and did the bathroom scale method today and have 525lb on the tongue with empty water tank and 675lb with full tank.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Ok, imagine your stinger is in the receiver AND the box/head are attached to the stinger BUT you were unhitched from the ball at the coupler and the coupler was just behind the ball. Also imagine the struts in HAHA case and the spring bars, (and the chains and umbilical, if you really want to get picky) magically stretched so they were still connected to the tongue and the head.
All of the weight of the head/box are on the receiver--none on the tongue.
...snip...

Ok, that's starting to make sense a bit - at least, I think I can envision what you're saying. In that "exploded" view, that absolutely makes sense. But when I "re-bolt" the unit to the a-frame in my head, I don't see how those components still apply only to the receiver and aren't added to the tongue. I see for sure that they are always included in the weight on the receiver - just not seeing how they don't ALSO contribute to the weight on the tongue.

Thanks for being patient - I really wish I was getting this!