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08-20-2015, 12:52 PM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Golden
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 915
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We travel in and out of Denver CO for Christmas and Spring Break each year. It is often that I am forced to tow in the snow. With the old Dual Cam I have had the rear come loose twice and start to swing out only to have the Dual Cam gently bring it back into alignment. This is without a friction brake only the Dual Cam, which is one of the reasons I have not towed with a friction brake in years. Since going to the PP on the 30' Bunk I have had the rear tires break traction once but there was no real change in the position/direction (no swing out) of the truck. When you see the signs on I80 that say disengage the cruise control in snow be sure to. I also run Michelins on the trailer as there is a big difference in traction and stability especially in inclement weather.
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08-20-2015, 01:25 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Bend
, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 761
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2012FB thanks, that is a great comparison and just the kind of info I am looking for.
As I understand it:
PPP hitch:
When the trailer looses traction, it will put forces on the TV and that too tries to break away. but they are joined in a rigid fashion and stay inline together, the TV can too loose traction but they will move as a unit.
conventional friction sway control:
When the trailer looses traction, it will pivot about the hitch ball, applying forces on the TV and basically jack knife.
Please correct me if this is not correct!!
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08-20-2015, 01:44 PM
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#23
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
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With any of the pivot projection hitches (Four bar linkage PP or Heneley), the pivot point is around the rear wheels of the TV. This still causes sideways pressure on the rear wheels. The old Pullrite and 5th wheel hitches do the same thing. The regular, pivot around the ball behind the TV, not only applies a side push, but also induces a torque around the rear wheels of the TV. Friction dampeners dampen the sway by dissipating the sway energy, but do resist going in and out of the original straight alignment. If sway never occurs or the rig never pivots, the dampeners do nothing. The manufacturers' recommendations are to loosen the dampeners slightly when slippery conditions are present.
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08-20-2015, 02:10 PM
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#24
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3 Rivet Member
2003 30' Classic
Centerville
, Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012FB
We travel in and out of Denver CO for Christmas and Spring Break each year. It is often that I am forced to tow in the snow. With the old Dual Cam I have had the rear come loose twice and start to swing out only to have the Dual Cam gently bring it back into alignment. This is without a friction brake only the Dual Cam, which is one of the reasons I have not towed with a friction brake in years. Since going to the PP on the 30' Bunk I have had the rear tires break traction once but there was no real change in the position/direction (no swing out) of the truck. When you see the signs on I80 that say disengage the cruise control in snow be sure to. I also run Michelins on the trailer as there is a big difference in traction and stability especially in inclement weather.
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I am not a Dual Cam expert by any means, but a Dual cam is not designed to have any additional friction devices is it? I do not believe it is.
__________________
Phil and Kathy Sinewe
2003 30' Classic W/Hensley Arrow
2014 F-150
Centerville, OH
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08-20-2015, 02:27 PM
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#25
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Mfg instructions say lessen friction on separate friction control devises in slippery conditions.
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08-20-2015, 02:49 PM
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#26
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Golden
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipsinewe
I am not a Dual Cam expert by any means, but a Dual cam is not designed to have any additional friction devices is it? I do not believe it is.
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Yes, that is correct, but when I had my ML350 hitch reinforced at CANAM Andy recommended the friction bar and did weld the ball receivers on both ends. His thinking, as explained, was that there is a potential for unloading on the Dual Cam during on and off ramp transitions especially with dips. After thinking about it more I decided against using it at all, based on my fear of not having the rear come back into alignment if pushed out. I have on occasion felt the Dual Cam unload but it has not caused any problems. I have not noticed this with the PP.
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08-20-2015, 03:07 PM
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#27
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2 Rivet Member
2006 30' Classic
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 96
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I've always found that no matter how careful you are driving on snow or ice, the real danger is being unable to control other drivers. No one can drive safely on ice.
__________________________________________________ ________
I saw a woman wearing a sweat shirt with "Guess" on it...so I said, "Implants?"
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08-20-2015, 03:20 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Bend
, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstwave
I've always found that no matter how careful you are driving on snow or ice, the real danger is being unable to control other drivers. No one can drive safely on ice.
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I could not agree more!!
When I drive in the snow I am super careful, I regularly see people falling off the road... Last winter was the worst I have known for idiots on the road...
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08-20-2015, 05:04 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
1996 34' Excella
Elberta
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 837
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No the Dual Cam isn't designed for any additional friction devices, nor are they needed.
Larry C
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipsinewe
I am not a Dual Cam expert by any means, but a Dual cam is not designed to have any additional friction devices is it? I do not believe it is.
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08-23-2015, 06:47 AM
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#30
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2 Rivet Member
2011 27' FB Classic
Camp Hill
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 75
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I have a Ford F-150 MaxTow with the "sway control" option. Wouldn't that control a trailer in slippery conditions a little better?. I have the equalizer bars now. Yes I know to reduce the brake gain a little in slippery conditions.
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08-23-2015, 06:57 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleRussell
I have a Ford F-150 MaxTow with the "sway control" option. Wouldn't that control a trailer in slippery conditions a little better?. I have the equalizer bars now. Yes I know to reduce the brake gain a little in slippery conditions.
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Vehicle trailer sway control, stability control, etc. only intercedes AFTER an instability situation occurs. Its function is to mitigate the progression of a bad situation.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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