Diesel Fuel Additives?

[kennethowens]

A towing topical question:

A while back, I took a fuel injector pump
to a local shop to be rebuilt. When I picked
up the pump, I noticed some Fuel Additive
that was being sold. I asked the repairman(owner)
if he thought additive were really necessary.
He commented about the new diesel fuel being
"dry". He said "I can remember when a small diesel
spill on the shop floor would leave an oily spot
for weeks - now, it'll be dry the next day". He went
on to say that "they have removed so much of
the Sulfur - which was both a lubricant and the"Octane"
(Cetane)that an additive would not remedy the problems of
the current fuels..it would extend the time before your
engine parts would have related problems. He added that
the new diesel fuel would "dry out" the o-rings and internal
gaskets in the injection pump.

At $600.00 per pump, the fellow had a shop full
to be done - he didn't seem to be needing the
money from the sales of the additive.

I asked him if adding "engine oil" would help. He said
"some".

Chapter 7 of the report published by Chevron
addresses Additives(pgs 83-92).
http://www.algae-x.net/_technicalinfo/techinf_2.pdf

The additive package may contain:
• A detergent/dispersant
• Lubricity improver
• One or more stabilizing additives
• A cetane number improver
• A low-temperature operability additive (flow improver or pour point reducer)
• A conductivity additive
• A biocide
• A corrosion inhibitor

My question:
Do you use a Diesel Fuel Additive?
What type / Brand?
Why?

[Dwight]

I use the Stanadyne Performance Formula. I buy on-line by the case. I have 3~TDI VW Beetles and a Duramax 3500. I use it in every tank and the stuff just works...

[2airishuman]

sulfur was not and IS not a lubricant.

but the PROCESS used to remove the sulfur, reduces the lubricity of the fuel.

they are working on additives to REPLACE this loss.
___________

lots of snake oil, not much proof of value.

BIODIESEL is one way to add back lubrication and it takes only a small amount (< 1% biod) to do that.

stan' is good stuff and what i use...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ube-41386.html

this is WELL COVERED in many many threads...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...sel-39890.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ves-20811.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...sel-28760.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...tml#post288685

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ads-18186.html

and there are others on this...

cheers
2air'

[kennethowens]

I used the dealer locator
- Stanadyne

It hit with 1 dealer within 50 miles - the very shop
I went for the work.

Dealers within 50 miles from 75751

Certified Dealer
PALESTINE PUMP AND INJECTION SERVICE
1990 Murchison
PALESTINE, TX 75801
Service Dealer

[Mike Leary]

I use it whenever I remember, which is not that often down here. When we're back in WA, it gets added.

[TankerIP]

I have heard that you just need to increase lubricity of the fuel. Stanadyne does that. But so do others. I searched for the best approach. Some use pure 2-stroke motor oil from Walmart. I thought about Marvel Mystery Oil. I checked with the company and they said, yes, it would work to increase lubricity. But, I was concerned that full strength maybe Marvel was too much deteregent factor.

So I now mix Marvel with 2-stroke ashless oil (Walmart). I use about 50% each, maybe a little more 2-stroke oil. I'm not scientific about how much to put in....maybe 2-3 ounces per full tank. I figure any little bit helps. This seems like the cheapest approach for me.

[Dwight]

Stanadyne Performance Formula is only 1 of 2 additives that are approved for GM diesel's.

[kennethowens]

The dealer Locator link in some of the old Threads/Posts
was broken:

I believe this one is good-North America - Stanadyne

2air -What is your take on using 2cycle oil as an added lube?

[2airishuman]

i suspected your original 'injector shop' was a stan' vendor.

many of the inde' diesel shops are, it's a nice sideline and they are always dealing with injector issues.

Originally Posted by kennethowens

...What is your take on using 2cycle oil as an added lube?

well, 2 cycle (syn or ashless) tcw3 grade oil as a fuel additive in 4 STROKE engines...

is the subject of MANY long threads on MANY motorhead forums...

worse that axles, polishing or tires here... MUCH worse.

i do in fact use 2 cycle oil but, in a gasoline rotary engine with a metering oil pump and SPECIFIC oil injector system...

and rotary engines are DESIGNED to intentionally burn OIL in the combustion side of the rotors.

even in THAT application the type of oil used is WIDELY debated by experts (and i am NO expert)

but would i add 2 stroke to the fuel for ANY of the newer diesels with HIGH PRESSURE MICRO SPRAY fuel injectors???

no way, no how, never.
____________

kenneth'

U have a 96 powerstroke with the old school 7.3 and old style injectors?

1. it's common for those injectors to eventually need service or replacement, regardless of the new fuel.

after 13 years of USE some1 suggesting the "new fuel" killed 'em is like suggesting that new hitch (or bike on back) KILLED a 40 year old trailer.

2. so until they've been serviced WHO KNOWS what might extend their longevity...probably nothing.

3. once replaced or professionally serviced i would NOT use MMO (stoddardsolvent) or 2 cycle or ANY home mixed crap (see # 6 for the exception)

4. i definitely would use stan' occasionally, if for no other reason than its an easy way to get lubricant, cetane boost AND cleaning in one package.

5. that 7.3 can burn ALMOST anything, so my approach would be to buy several gallons of biod (20-100% made from VIRGIN veggie oil) at 3-4 $ a gallon...

6. then add just enough to get a 1% biod mix. (do the math, it doesn't take much.

7. in fact i'd be tempted to burn 20-100% bio ALL of the time if readily available, and with that drivetrain.

8. the issue with FULL bio or (b20) is that it may be harder on the OLD seals/gaskets at full strength and would require MORE frequent fuel filter service...

9. but at 1% or less it's all about adding lubrication.

10. i like stan's but the motivation for your mechanic is that after the repairs are paid for YOU are still a steady source of $$ buying the additives...

cheers
2air'

[handn]

I add a biocide to the diesel in my boat as the problems with slime and algae in boat fuel tanks are well known.
I add nothing else and think other additives are a waste of money at best and some may cause mechanical problems at worst.
As 2airishuman says the 7.3 Navistar will burn almost anything. Mine has for 180,000 miles with no injector or injector pump issues of any kind.
As it says on the low sulphur diesel pump, "Necessary for engines 2007 and newer, recommended for older engines."
Clean fuel is a must. I fuel only at high volume places and change my fuel filter every other oil change rather than every third oil change as the factory recomends. I drive my Excursion frequently as an engine that sits around is more likely to develop leaks.

[kennethowens]

2air - I like the bio~mix thing. I'll need to find
a place local...there are not many places around
here.

The Stanadyne is on the short list of things to keep on hand.

Thanks

[AirsDream]

I too use only Stanadyne ... because I drive '08 Duramax and '05 VW TDI ... this is indeed the only additive factory approved. Incidentally, also recommended by both the dealers, neither of which actually sells it.

I too use the Performance Formula, since it's the one recommended. Also have a Stan. product I occasionally add, called something like "Lubricity Enhancer" - though that's not the name and I'm quite a ways from the garage right now, so I can't go look.

Maybe it doesn't help, but I've got nearly a million miles of diesel driving, and have only ever had one issue - a single Bosch injector getting weepy on a Benz. So it probably also doesn't hurt. Like throwing salt over the shoulder? Maybe, but injectors and pumps and engines are pricey and a little additive isn't.

Also, I spend a lot of time in Michigan Upper Peninsula and Wisconsin in way below zero weather and have never had a fuel gelling problem. Maybe I wouldn't have had anyway ... whistling past the graveyard? Maybe, but I'm gonna' keep on.

Maybe it's just snake oil, but ya' pays yer' money and ya' takes yer' chances.

[wahoonc]

I use bio in my 7.3l and have ever since I found a decent source. My truck will happily run as high as B80 or as low as B10. There is a Shell convenience store chain in the Greenville, SC area that sells the B10. So far I have put over 100k on that truck and no issues. We have another 7.3 pushing the 500k mark, but it has had seals replaced, lift pump and I suspect injectors somewhere along the way, but the basic block and pistons are still chugging along.

I think any additive is better than none. Relatively cheap insurance, best bet as pointed out is to keep the oil changed and the fuel as clean as possible.

Aaron

[Dwight]

On my 4 diesel vehicles (3~TDI Beetles and Duramax) I change the oil, oil filter, fuel filter and air filter EVERY 5k miles. As everyone knows, diesel is a dirty fuel and it just prevents future problems....pay now or pay later is my thinking.

[TinShack]

Here's a link to a blind test that was done on diesel fuel additives. It's kind of interesting the soy biodiesel topped the list for improved lubricity while other products actually decreased it. Be careful what you put in your fuel.
http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

[2airishuman]

'blinded' i'm not sure about.

and THAT trial/report was SPONSORED by the company who makes the product that finished 2,3, and 5th, as i remember.

as i recall, it first appeared about a MONTH before they released those products for sale ONLINE only.

there was a lot of hubbub on that particular forum all around this time and this specific 'study'...

un published, no peer review, not repeated and so on...

as always ymmv, vwp, and don't run with scissors!

cheers
2air'

[TinShack]

Here is another link to a recent test done by Diesel Power magazine. They must be on the Opti-lube payroll too...

Fuel Additive Test - Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel - Diesel Power Magazine

[2airishuman]

no mongo, it looks like the 'fppf chemical company' this time, also a maker of fuel additives used IN the report.

also notice the results are NOT even quoted for the SAME parameters (no additive vs ALL the others)

also note the driveline is MODIFIED significantly.

so what was the EFFECT of each additive? cetane boost or what?

unless the additive has a long term effect they should have gone BACK to 'fuel only' between each additive and seen a DROP in mpg.

they didn't do that.

reports for each additive are "BEST TANK" not an average over many tanks...

while fuel only are reported as averages...

so what was the WORST tank with each additive?

again these are numbers without value (no CI or standard deviation, or other statistical data offered)

reading these things is of entertainment value only.

got more?

cheers
2air'

[TinShack]

Well, 2air, I'm fresh out of tests, but maybe you can help me understand something. What made you decide to use Stanadyne, and can you provide the logic behind your decision. I am also interested in what Stanadyne you use... Lubricity, Performance or...?
Cheers

[2airishuman]

4 very personalized reasons...

1. charles ledger (the ford master mechanic who runs the yahoo Powerstoke group) told me too...

2. the company that make it ISN't primarily a fuel additive maker (they make fuel injectors)

3. it's the only additive approved by ALL the diesel engine makers (at that time)...

(( and there is an OLD paper on it and all the common additives up to that date which demonstrated the benefits))

4. i did a VERY detailed experiment with the stuff, over 4000 miles in my truck. with it/without it and so on several times, over about 12 tanks of fuel (without additive in between tanks with...)

it CLEARLY increased mpg (lsd fuel) enough to OFF SET the cost factor in MY truck and towing, provided fuel remains 2.50 or more per gallon, so at the 3-4 $ level it really helped with fuel costs.

that data may NOT apply to anyone else or ANY other truck on the planet.

5. i use the performance formula and buy 64 oz jugs 6 at a time (after the trial phase) from a local shop that will match or better ANY online vendor price.

so for ME it's cuts fuel COSTS a small, but measurable amount. towing 15-20k miles yearly means i'll take any savings i can find.

i also did a long trial with biod. the truck smelled better, but it didn't alter the mpg and the extra fuel filters actually INCREASED my cost factor.

cheers
2air'