Best used TV for $10-20k for 10k# towing & mpg

[Gringo]

Please, educate me about the 6.0. I am wondering, if I find a truck with a 6.0 and 150,000 miles on it, is it safe to assume that either it doesn't have any issues, or that any issues have long been resolved? How soon do the problems make themselves known?

Another question, if I bought a 6.0 and then found out it needed whatever it is they need, what would it cost to have it all done by a shop? Could I continue to drive the TV until it was convenient to put it in the shop, or do these issues stop it dead?

Our situation is such that the TV will be sitting, unused, for most of the year. The specs on that 6.0 look good.

[perryg114]

You want to find a truck that has not been abused. One that has been used as a car not as a truck. Many folks buy these big trucks just as a status symbol and they never use them as intended. I would stay away from anything with much over 100k on it. Let's say the engine is fine but the transmission is shot. That will be $4000 for a good rebuild. If you are really unlucky you could also have to lay out another $5000 to have the engine rebuilt or upgraded. You can buy alot of gas for what an ailing diesel will cost you over a gasser. If you go the used diesel route have it checked out by the dealer or a shop that specializes in these big trucks.


Perry

[Gringo]

From what I've seen so far, anything in the $ 15K range with under 100,000 miles on it is basically wrecked or totally trashed. I am having a hard time with the numbers on the rebuild. 4,000 for a tranny? I think I'd be more inclined to just put another one in. How much could a junkyard transmission cost?

I think the arguments for gassers make sense for people who use their TVs as daily drivers. In my case, it might get driven 2-4 times a year, all in the same couple of months, for a total of less than 2000 miles per year, and then parked for 11 months.
I think I like the stability of diesel for long term storage. I'm pretty set at this point on a diesel. I know what gasoline engines can be like after sitting for a year with fuel in them.

Its also possible that we might miss one season from time to time. That would leave the truck sitting for two years. Diesel, I think.

[panheaddale]

Originally Posted by Taylormade

I wouldn't trade my 6.0 for either the 7.3 or the Cummins. For the record, there are tons of 6.0s out there that have their original EGR, their original oil coolers and over 200k. Mine's modified (EGR/Cat delete, exhaust, fuel spring, coolant filter, etc) but it's a 480hp, 22mpg getting, tow a mountain beast that I'd pay to have repaired if I blew it up.

You have already done all the things that need to be done to make it 200,000 especially running a tuner on it. Most are not that lucky if they have not already done the mods. I am a diehard ford man but that was the worst engine ford has ever built until you do what ford didn't to fix their mistakes.. Seen too many of them with the egr,head problems at typically 100 to 150,000 miles on them.

[SuperTrouper]

Hey Gringo,


I bought a 2002 Excursion 7.3 w/195K on it two years ago to pull my 27FB for 14K. The gassers were going for about 10K. It's got 230 on the clock now. Did the carfax thing and found it only had two real owners and a couple of flippers at the end. The truck pusher I bought it from had all the ford 5K service records. It's been a great truck and the engine is bulletproof even after my wife filled it with gas (44gal) and drove around town. (It was a little expensive throwing away that fuel and cleaning the high pressure components). Luckily she shut it down fairly quickly when she noticed a lack of power after a while scanned the gauges and noticed the "Diesel Only" note above the fuel gauge. she was crying when she called but only because she thought the flatbed driver would laugh at her. He told her construction crews do it all the time. I upgraded the shocks with bilsteins and installed a DPtuner myself with 80HP towing mode and engine brake mode among others and this thing tows really well. The steering is a bit vague but OK for me. We have 4 kids and having the 3rd seat and cargo space to boot makes for a very comfy long distance ride for everyone. The only mistake I've made so far is installing powerslot rotors and high friction brake pads which warped after 15K miles. Ive replaced with high performance Bendix equipment (ambulance service level) and everything is fine now

In my experience it was a great purchase but I wouldn't have done it without carfax and service records. Perry likes the gasser version and it's true that the Diesel maintenence costs more but pulling up grants pass without sweating is great fun!

Good luck with your search.

Brad

[panheaddale]

Originally Posted by Gringo

From what I've seen so far, anything in the $ 15K range with under 100,000 miles on it is basically wrecked or totally trashed. I am having a hard time with the numbers on the rebuild. 4,000 for a tranny? I think I'd be more inclined to just put another one in. How much could a junkyard transmission cost?

I think the arguments for gassers make sense for people who use their TVs as daily drivers. In my case, it might get driven 2-4 times a year, all in the same couple of months, for a total of less than 2000 miles per year, and then parked for 11 months.
I think I like the stability of diesel for long term storage. I'm pretty set at this point on a diesel. I know what gasoline engines can be like after sitting for a year with fuel in them.

Its also possible that we might miss one season from time to time. That would leave the truck sitting for two years. Diesel, I think.

3 to 4 thousand is about right for a remanufactured tranny. Stay away from junk yard take outs you don't know how they have been treated or how many miles towing and abused. You might get a junk yard tranny for 2,000 but no guaranty with a reman. you will get at least 12 months 12,000 miles or better depending on what brand of tranny you get. Let me say again with a 6.0 there are two kinds of trucks : Those that have had the egr, head gasket issues or those that will have the egr, head gasket issues. If it happens you need to be prepared to spend SEVERAL thousand dollars. If you go ahead and do the egr delete and the necessary things before they happen it will be alot less expensive. If you put power boxes and all the hop up stuff they will definitly walk the walk but you will have issues sooner or later.

[Gringo]

Ok. Thanks for the info. As for the junkyard stuff, I've had pretty good luck using common sense. You find a vehicle that's totaled due to an accident. Not one that's worn out. No reflection on the condition of the transmission.. Serious roll-overs are especially nice. All the internal components get well coated with oil before being stored.....( insert smiley face)

But all this info pretty much leads me back to where I found some solid feeling ground: An Excursion with a 7.3 Least risk, best reputation. I note the suggestions that increasing the budget by $ 5,000 would probably get me a better truck than staying around 12-15, but that logic also can be viewed differently. To spend a guaranteed $ 5k up front, based upon the risk that I MIGHT have to buy a set of injectors, isn't a good bet. Definitely spend another 5K vs maybe someday having to.

We do have some diesel experience. Two Land Rover Defenders and our catamaran together have four diesels. We just sold the Land Rovers, but in the meantime I've found out it's no big deal to ship injectors off and having them rebuilt. A shop in Jax rebuilt three for me for a couple hundred bucks. They're just solenoids with o-rings. It's not rocket surgery.

Dodge with a 5.9 is my backup but after talking it over, we find we really like the Excursion idea. We can lock up the bicycles and other goodies we don't want stored in the trailer and they will be a lot more invisible and secure in a locked SUV than in the back of a pickup truck with a shell on it. And we don't need the bare steel, dirty hauling capability of a pickup, anyhow. Not this time. I don't like the idea of storing a gasoline powered Honda genny in the passenger compartment, but I am guessing someone must have come up with a good enclosure or air tight case for those things by now.

But due to the risk factors, the 6.0 Ford Powerstroke is probably off the list.
I've had my own Ford engine experiences. First car was a third hand 56 with the Thunderbird Special V-8, Since then...well, I just added them up and I've owned 11 Fords, (along with 1 Toyota, 1 Pontiac,1 Jeep, two Land Rovers, 2 Suzuki's, and a KIA. 7 motorcycles, one airplane, and a bunch of boats) I've also rented and leased a fair number of vehicles over a long career of travelling.

I still like Ford Trucks. Dodge, well, not as much. If Toyota imported a diesel...well...never mind.

Hey, looking on eBay, I found an Excursion with a 5.9 Cummins conversion! It's a little too beat up for us, but if anyone is seriously looking for one it's in Oklahoma asking $ 10K.

[jcanavera]

I've always found vans a great bargain and a great vehicle for towing. Specifically the passenger vans make better towing vehicles than the custom vans due to the weight of many of the custom van components. Typically they are much lower priced than SUV's, have plenty of seating (which you can remove) and provide covered storage for the stuff you bring with you. Equipped right you can tow about 10,000 lbs with the 3/4 ton GM vans. I'm on my 4th GM van at this point and is my first that I specifically ordered and configured for towing.

Jack

[SuperTrouper]

A coupla things I forgot:
Mileage average: 18-19mpg not towing, 11-12mpg when towing (lie-o-meter says 21 and 15)

I'm planning (budgeting) on having the 4R100 tranny rebuilt by John Wood Automotive (Towmaster) for 5K in the next few years. He offers one day service if you drive in. He's in SoCal so I may just take the trailer and stay in his lot if it is still drivable when I have the money and time. There's a place in Arkansas called BTS if you want a ford tranny rebuild in the middle of the country.

DPtuner, tranny temp gauge AND pyrometer (exhaust temp) gauge add ons recommended with a 7.3 cause it's a honey badger engine that will not stop producing power until something melts or breaks. The stock tranny temp gauge is a windvane or a antimatter particle gauge the best I can figure.

[Gringo]

We love vans, and I forgot I've owned two Ford vans so that brings it to 13 Fords in my history. also owned two Dodge caravans, so that tells you what my memory is up to these days. Must be the cookies.

I did a couple quick searches, and didn't immediately see any 4x4 or AWD vans big enough to tow the 27. Who makes a 3/4 ton 4x4 van?

We have to have 4 wheel drive. Won't even consider RWD only.

[perryg114]

The 7.3 is hard on those automatics. I have the 4R100 in my Excursion and it has had an easy life behind the V10 compared to the 7.3. Diesels have a lot of torque but it is also uneven. This takes its tole on a trans.

Perry

Originally Posted by SuperTrouper

A coupla things I forgot:
Mileage average: 18-19mpg not towing, 11-12mpg when towing (lie-o-meter says 21 and 15)

I'm planning (budgeting) on having the 4R100 tranny rebuilt by John Wood Automotive (Towmaster) for 5K in the next few years. He offers one day service if you drive in. He's in SoCal so I may just take the trailer and stay in his lot if it is still drivable when I have the money and time. There's a place in Arkansas called BTS if you want a ford tranny rebuild in the middle of the country.

DPtuner, tranny temp gauge AND pyrometer (exhaust temp) gauge add ons recommended with a 7.3 cause it's a honey badger engine that will not stop producing power until something melts or breaks. The stock tranny temp gauge is a windvane or a antimatter particle gauge the best I can figure.

[SuperTrouper]

Originally Posted by perryg114

The 7.3 is hard on those automatics. I have the 4R100 in my Excursion and it has had an easy life behind the V10 compared to the 7.3. Diesels have a lot of torque but it is also uneven. This takes its tole on a trans.

Perry

Great for Tractor Pulls and surpising everyone on the onramps though! With DPTuner set to 80 HP I'm at 60 MPH easy when hitting the traffic lanes. Now about that coal smoke.........

I'm fortunate that the trans was flushed often and that it (knock on wood) still works fine with the exception that it drops converter lock at about 45MPH on the downhill. DPtuner folks say it should hold down to 30MPH or so.

[Gringo]

so....how does a transmission know what's on the other end of the input shaft?

[ALANSD]

my two cents-- I have a 2000 Excursion V10. !55K on it now. It pulls great, and is super comfortable, get abot 12mpg towing at 60, and up to 18 highway not towing. Not great on mileage but it runs on REGULAR, which costs a lot les than diesel.
I have put on a set of tires, cost me around 450. No other repairs or anything other than oil changes in 6 years.

[perryg114]

More torque and more hammering means shorter transmission life.

Perry

Originally Posted by Gringo

so....how does a transmission know what's on the other end of the input shaft?

[perryg114]

You must have the non-tow package version with the 3.73 rear end. My buddy has one and he gets a couple more MPG with his than I do with my 4:30 rear end. We have not drag raced yet. I get 12 MPG empty and 8-10 MPG towing but I have a lead foot.

Perry

Originally Posted by ALANSD

my two cents-- I have a 2000 Excursion V10. !55K on it now. It pulls great, and is super comfortable, get abot 12mpg towing at 60, and up to 18 highway not towing. Not great on mileage but it runs on REGULAR, which costs a lot les than diesel.
I have put on a set of tires, cost me around 450. No other repairs or anything other than oil changes in 6 years.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Gringo

We love vans, and I forgot I've owned two Ford vans so that brings it to 13 Fords in my history. also owned two Dodge caravans, so that tells you what my memory is up to these days. Must be the cookies.

I did a couple quick searches, and didn't immediately see any 4x4 or AWD vans big enough to tow the 27. Who makes a 3/4 ton 4x4 van?

We have to have 4 wheel drive. Won't even consider RWD only.

4x4 vans are not common and usually will take a hit on towing capacity due to the additional weight of the components. I'm not even sure what axle ratios are offered. I put a 4.10 axle with limited slip differential on my GMC. I've not been in a situation where I've ever needed 4 wheel drive, but if you go off road, camp on beaches, or tow in snow, I could see why that might be important.

Jack

[Taylormade]

Originally Posted by ALANSD

my two cents-- I have a 2000 Excursion V10. !55K on it now. It pulls great, and is super comfortable, get abot 12mpg towing at 60, and up to 18 highway not towing. Not great on mileage but it runs on REGULAR, which costs a lot les than diesel.
I have put on a set of tires, cost me around 450. No other repairs or anything other than oil changes in 6 years.

I'm out of the diesel vs gasser debate, but are you hand calculating those mpgs or going by the overhead gauge? I've never seen a V10 get more than 12mpg, towing or not.

Here's my take on the great debate... I posted this earlier tonight on the Excursion forums because the gas/diesel 6.0/diesel 7.3 argument breaks out in almost every thread.

I'll summarize:

The gassers will take their $5-7k less expensive vehicles, put 87 octane in it, forego the $100k diesel repairs and problems and come out ahead and be fine with their 8mpg.

The glowplug crowd will talk about HP, torque, tuning, 20-30mpg, towing capacity and how real trucks don't have sparkplugs.

In the end the Excursion is one terrific vehicle with a few modifications, regardless of engine.

They were delivered with soccer mom springs on them. Swap them out with F250 SD springs. If you're lucky enough to find the springs on the truck body still, look in the door jamb. You're looking for V/B codes. Those are stiffer and much better for the truck.

If you don't want to do that, you can add a Hellwig sway bar to the rear, or a roadmaster active suspension. Those two add ons will give you a darn near flawless TV that can tow a mountain, while storing your kids, your dogs, and all your gear.

[Gringo]

I'm not in a diesel/gasser debate, either. I considered all the comments here, and elsewhere, and decided we want an Excursion with the 7.3 Powerstroke. I've got a new hitch for the trailer, haven't even installed it yet. The Reese anti-sway thing. I forget the model. Bought it thinking I would need it. Towed the trailer from Houston to Dallas to Taos to Ft. Collins..no issues with sway at all. And those were rented F-250's.

[slowmover]

A Cummins-powered Dodge beats any year of Ford for economy of operation as well as capacity to work in this price range. Those who used them to make a living stayed away from Ford or GM as they would not last nor do the work at the higher weight ranges (30k). Todays automatics are better (one can barely use a manual behind the non-Dodge V8 diesels from the era considered which is why CTD pulled away from the pack and stayed there for getting close to 20-years), but aftermarket AT rebuilders are out there. A manual trans CTD is a marriage made in heaven and no A/S ever made is any sort of challenge.

As to reliability/longevity the same applies. At nearly 200k I have replaced the u-joints and an ignition swtich. Batteries lasted nine years, first tires/brakes lasted 120k, etc. At ten years it's time for me to start spending to get ahead of wear and tear, but the truck literally could not have been cheaper to own/operate. This is not at all uncommon (although 4WD wears faster).

The past 50,000-miles I have averaged 21-mpg. All gallons, all miles. Towing the TT sees 15-16 mpg and solo highway does not fall below 24-mpg loaded or empty. Around town for commuting or shopping I see 19-mpg. Stock, unaltered.

I kept up with diesel powered pickups starting in the 1980's. By the mid-nineties the turbocharged Dodge pulled away from the rest. Only now might the Fords or GM's be as good (the jury is still out for the oilfield hotshot/LTL owner-operator judgment). Emissions has changed the game. But its stil rare for me to see a Ford (and nearly never a GM) being used in heavy hotshot oilfield (where the empty GN trailer weighs more than 97% of A/S trailers)..

The 7.3 Powerstroke of ca. 1999-2003 has a "rep" as it is the only time in thirty years that Ford got everything right. But it still isn't as good a TV as a Cummins of that period.

I asked a similar question as the OP more than ten years ago when considering a truck for work and play: The greatest reliability over the longest life at the lowest cost per mile with the greatest capacity for work. Nothing else came close to Dodge when it came to numbers. And it has proven out . . . my truck (bought used) has [ha!] "suffered" less than $4k in depreciation in those seven years, besides being cheap to own/operate.

IMO, no matter what truck you buy, do not settle for other than 4-wheel disc brakes on that vehicle. And be sure you actually need a truck (too much junk carried along is the sole reason) and that the 10k weight is a valid number . . with this trailer type it may be unlikely.

.