Boulder Flood

[slowmover]

We drove up Big Thompson the day of the '76 flood waving to campers and those on the river after time at the family cabin in Nederland and after a few days with family in Boulder.

Hate to see it all. But I have no real sympathy for those who built or bought in areas they shouldn't have. Whether on the ocean front or in a floodplain the days of being so foolish are decades past.

Campgrounds can be rebuilt. Not peoples lives. Boulder might be exceptional to a general rule that while one may have planned well, and is well insured, never expect that ones neighborhood is so well off . . and Nature will be back. Digging into Gulf Coast hurricane history shows 18-mos until homes are re-occupied . . but some neighborhoods will have empty or problem houses from then on.

I don't care much for post-1980 Boulder, but I'd imagine "desirability" and some political grandstanding will make for interesting reading and observations.

What happens upstream will be more interesting (land use).

[Pahaska]

I don't care much for post-1980 Boulder, but I'd imagine "desirability" and some political grandstanding will make for interesting reading and observations.
I left the Boulder/Longmont/Loveland area in 1981. I barely recognize Boulder or Longmont any more. I was lucky to move into the area in 1965 when I could still picnic safely and catch trout in Boulder Canyon.

After seeing the floods in Boulder in the late 1960s, I knew something like this would happen some day.

It appears that Loveland fared worse this time than in the Big Thompson flood and the road destruction in the Big Thompson Canyon actually looks worse this time. Much of what is washed out are the raised sections of highway that were supposed to prevent damage. After the 1976 flood, I was able to drive quite a way into the canyon..

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by slowmover

But I have no real sympathy for those who built or bought in areas they shouldn't have. Whether on the ocean front or in a floodplain the days of being so foolish are decades past.

Geez! A little harsh wouldn't you say!

With about 4,500 SQUARE MILES & 17,994 HOMES in Colorado affected by this 75-100 year flood - I'd say your comment is rather harsh. Many of the folks most affected are hard working people living in the lowland neighborhoods east of the canyons & rivers.

2013 Colorado Flood - By the Numbers

Shame on you ~

Shari

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Geez! A little harsh wouldn't you say!

With about 4,500 SQUARE MILES & 17,994 HOMES in Colorado affected by this 75-100 year flood - I'd say your comment is rather harsh. Many of the folks most affected are hard working people living in the lowland neighborhoods east of the canyons & rivers.

2013 Colorado Flood - By the Numbers

Shame on you ~

Shari

Here is an interesting anecdote.

There are three nice housing areas just down the hill from us. All three are outside both the 100 year and 500 year flood zone. They and the golf course above them were all heavily flooded. It seems that, about five miles west, a significant portion of the St Vrain river flow left the river course and took a short cut through some irrigation holding ponds and then left via one of the irrigation canals. this canal went west along a route that is up hill from the golf course and these housing areas. The whole distance it was dumping large amounts of water down over farm fields, and then the golf course, and these housing areas. It then hit rail road tracks that backed it up some to make it worse. After it topped and washed out the tracks, it continued a little further and joined the main flow again. Since the ground is not level and is completely saturated, there are still small lakes remaining along its path. So, all who suffered did not built in a dangerous appearing area.

Ken

[Lily&Me]

Yikes!

Such dreadful, unimaginable devasttion.


Maggie

[mojo]

Originally Posted by slowmover

But I have no real sympathy for those who built or bought in areas they shouldn't have. Whether on the ocean front or in a floodplain the days of being so foolish are decades past.

Remember that when the next big hurricane strikes Corpus Christi.

Disasters happen everywhere.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by slowmover

We drove up Big Thompson the day of the '76 flood waving to campers and those on the river after time at the family cabin in Nederland and after a few days with family in Boulder.

Hate to see it all. But I have no real sympathy for those who built or bought in areas they shouldn't have. Whether on the ocean front or in a floodplain the days of being so foolish are decades past.

Campgrounds can be rebuilt. Not peoples lives. Boulder might be exceptional to a general rule that while one may have planned well, and is well insured, never expect that ones neighborhood is so well off . . and Nature will be back. Digging into Gulf Coast hurricane history shows 18-mos until homes are re-occupied . . but some neighborhoods will have empty or problem houses from then on.

I don't care much for post-1980 Boulder, but I'd imagine "desirability" and some political grandstanding will make for interesting reading and observations.

What happens upstream will be more interesting (land use).

I don't have a problem with people building in risky areas to take advantage of the natural beauty as long as they assume the risk and don't expect others to cover the cost of rebuilding for them when the inevitable happens.

Much of the devastation in Colorado happened in areas that you wouldn't believe could flood. Even if you are out of the flood plane on top of a hill, 17 inches in 4 days can wash you out and slide your home down the hill. This was a very unusual event.

[Phoenix]

I lived in Greeley in 1965, and there was a similar flood back then. The South Platte flooded Denver and washed out all the businesses along the river, then joined the Big Thompson and Poudre Rivers in flood stage just outside of Greeley, just like this time. I think a dam broke on the Poudre then, too.

My sister now lives in north Denver, and she says that this flood is worse than the one in 1965. I think you can't really do much about flooding in Colorado, other than not build a cabin in Big Thompson Canyon. Otherwise, I think that flooding is just one of life's hazards living so close to the Rockies. The Continental Divide runs down the middle of the Colorado Rockies, and all that water in the mountains has to go somewhere. You just hope this doesn't happen too often.

Some of the problem comes from new construction trying to dam up and divert the water flow. I think the land remembers where the water is supposed to go (gravity); and eventually, it's going to jump anything you put in front of it, and return to the original channel. Trying to divert the natural flow only makes things worse, as the water is higher when it finally overflows the new channel.

In any case, Colorado is a beautiful state; and everything will build back up when things dry out. So sorry about the lives and property lost, though; as with all natural disasters. Hope no AirForums members were affected.

Our prayers and best wishes to those who live in the affected areas...

[Gene]

To discourage people from taking risks about where they build, flood insurance is getting more expensive and I think it will be rated according how far someone is into a potential flood zone.

A cabin a few feet from a river is a lot different than the subdivisions Ken describes. Piling on 'mover isn't going to change the fact that some people build in highly vulnerable places and should expect problems when the inevitable flood comes.

It is a tragedy wherever it happens.

Gene

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Gene

To discourage people from taking risks about where they build, flood insurance is getting more expensive and I think it will be rated according how far someone is into a potential flood zone.

It's not really to discourage homeowners. It's to make sure the insurance companies don't go bankrupt trying to pay out on all of the claims.

FEMA publishes flood zone maps, that indicate the expected flood elevation based on historical data. Every time there's a new and higher flood, FEMA reworks the maps.

Insurance companies base their premiums based on what the home's floor elevation is relative to the flood zone elevation. One can build smack dab in the middle of a flood plain, and if one's floor elevation is high enough, the insurance premiums will still be relatively low. That's why, here in south Louisiana, so many homes are up on stilts. The homeowners are too stubborn to move, and so they just keep elevating their homes higher and higher to keep above the rising FEMA flood zone elevations.

[Pahaska]

It isn't only insurance companies that rely on flood plain information. Banks do also. My step-son works for a bank as a flood-risk analyst. He formerly worked for American Flood Data until they were bought out by another firm. Now, he works directly for the bank. He and several co-workers are busy rating properties for the bank, both for resale and for development.

Banks either will not lend at all or they will drastically up their rates in flood prone areas. This affects not only resales, it also affects the introduction of new subdivisions. It is hard to start a new subdivision when it is known before hand that the bank will not lend to buyers.

[Minno]

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I,m having a hard time coping with all this.

Aerowood, How's your mom doing? And how are you and the rest of your family holding up?

Thinking of you and everyone else affected by the flood.

Chris & Kay

[Pahaska]

We stayed here in July, just off the middle right of the photo. The area is pretty low (used to be called Barbour Ponds). This was a really nice park. We came in on the road in the center of the photo.

[Aerowood]

Mom is hanging in there with some days better then others, she is still in the hospital. My son was able to go home yesterday but still has a boil water restriction, at least he has sewer service because some areas do not. I have to detour my drive to work and back due to two bridges washed out between my house in Arvada and the road I drive to the airport. The bulk of the devastation is north of me. A good family friend lives up Coal Creek Canyon and his driveway looks like a miniature Grand Canyon. i have a tractor he would like to use but as of yet we can't get it to his house, access through Golden Gate Canyon should be available soon.

Looting has now become an issue and neighborhood watch groups are arming themselves.

[TG Twinkie]

I think you will find that most insurance companies will not cover the damage caused by the Colorado Flood. Only Federal Flood insurance will cover the damage. If you did not have Federal Flood insurance, you are in for a surprise.
Banks and Mortgage companies require Federal Flood Insurance as well as VA guaranteed loans as far as I know. If your property is paid for or privately financed, you may be in for a shock.

[Aerowood]

TG, the South Platte surge is expected to hit Nebraska today or tomorrow, flood warning out for Julesburg Co.

[Gene]

Federal flood insurance was created to provide insurance for people in areas prone to flooding because insurance companies would not. It is subsidized by the feds and has been losing money because the premiums are not high enough to pay for the claims.

Congress acted recently (it may have been part of the deal to appropriate money for Sandy victims) to increase premiums for the program. But if the premiums are too high, fewer people will insure and the program will still lose money. Part of the reason for the changes in this program was to discourage people from building and part was to reduce deficits.

Many people thought the premiums were too high already and that is why so many people don't buy this type of insurance. This program cannot work without government subsidies in my opinion. I think the community as a whole has some sort of responsibility to those in trouble (you never know when you're going to need some community help you never thought of). But if we subsidize dumb behavior, we just keep paying for the same damage to the same property over and over.

I think the solution is a compromise—people in flood prone areas that built before the dangers were known should have some sort of subsidy, but others who built more recently with knowledge of the danger should pay more for the insurance. It may also make sense to pay people not to build.

Then there is the question of infrastructure. The highway along the Big Thompson has been washed out twice in 38 years. Does it make sense to build anything but a local dirt road through there? Shouldn't the access to Estes Park be some other road? Is there going to be federal money to Colorado to help with this? A lot of the roads in the Front Range foothills access federal parks and other federal lands, so the feds should be actively involved, i.e., help pay for it.

Part of this is about costs, and, of course, part of this is about human tragedy. Suppose your grandfather build a bucolic cabin along a creek or river—close to the rushing water and not too high above it. It has been the scene of many pleasant family gatherings. And one day it washes away with grandpa. Dumb place to build and terrible and sad outcome.

Gene

[reinergirl]

Aerowood

I am sending positive thoughts your way and hope your mom and family will be okay. The pictures on the TV are horrifying enough, can't imagine being there.

Hang in there.

[Kota]

I just got back from checking on some friends and helping recover from water damage. The number of houses with flooring, wall board, furniture, beds, and other household goods piled in front yards is amazing. Many of them are well above any floodplain. Two friends with damage were informed that they have no coverage. The ones in floodplains are covered.

[Gene]

Another twist on the insurance issue is the one Dakota tells about. People not in flood prone areas according to the maps would probably never get flood insurance, and may not be eligible for it. Those people should be eligible at the lowest rates because it isn't supposed to happen there.

You can't get federal flood insurance unless your county has opted into the program. Then there have to be maps prepared to tell you what area you are in—terms like "floodway" and "floodplain" will make you crazy. The county we live in did not have maps for a lot of of the flood prone areas 10 years ago when I looked this stuff up. But the county had opted in. I don't know how that has worked out.

For our part, I never ever look at property that looks like it will flood or is on the maps. I'd love to live somewhere near the ocean or in a pretty river valley (for a while, I'd probably go back to the high desert), but it is too dangerous. Insurance can replace a house, but not a home.

Gene