Help on engine

[RonJudi]

Well I fell for the pitch and bought the deluxe RV model which is a K higher for such things as Stellite Exhaust Valves, RV Cam, and other stuff. I just thought I would give myself a treat after the beating I took on the failure. I had one of the deluxe RV versions before in a Ford big engine and it sure out performed the standard 460 that I had before and since. Maybe I am wasting a little money endulging but boy is the rest of my unit clean and nice. I am even putting thin screen HDTV in since broadcast is in my background. The guy I bought the unit from (Dealer) is only making good on a fraction of the engine cost so the bulk is on me. The mechanic would do any of those mentioned including redoing my questionable core. Warranty is nationwide also and is 3 yr/75K. I hope I made a good decision. The new engine is built and will be here Wednesday. I sure do appreciate hearing from everyone and getting the advice and believe me it was most helpful. The most important advice I can give anyone considering buying a motor home is open up the air cleaner, start the engine, place the unit in gear and make sure you do not have excessive blow by. I can not believe I didn't do this. I am still having a hard time accepting that this nice of a 93 model with only 63000 miles could have a blown engine. Ron

[59toaster]

Ohhh I see the problem...It had a Ford engine!


Ididn't say that did I?

Sorry the chevy guy in me coming out. I wasn't clear on what motor you had.


That's a great warranty. Hard to beat that.

My next go around I thing will be deisel. I am liking that Cummings TD. Heck of a motor. LOTS of perforamce parts available. I would think it would be a good motor for a Motor Home. It's a I 6 and can easily be up to 500 repliable HP with 800lbft of torque. The I configuration would make working on it easier as long as it has the head room. Only down side is the noise with that sitting right next to you.

[RonJudi]

This is my first 454. The only problem I had with the 460 Ford was the carb. The engine ran ok but I couldn't keep that from leaking gas. I built up a chevy 350 myself for a tow for my Avion years ago and that was the best engine I ever had. Built it from it from junk yard block, had it bored, shaved the head a little, etc. Man did it pull that Avion. Since then I have owned one of just about everything and my favorite engine is the 98 Corvette, 98 Doodge 360, and a 327 in my Plastic Avalanche. I had a couple of GM diesels which were good except the Russo oil pumps were ruined by cheap GM design in the 80's. I got tired of the diesels because of the relatively low hp output to weight, the price of diesel climbed, and the addition of fuel injection to gas engines increased there mileage so much that the MPG advantage wasn't as big an incentive. I like the Cummins, the Cats, Perkins etc, but there is a little more of a disadvantage to operation with diesels. Saying that, I can't imagine I would want to turn down one of those big fancy diesel pushers that just sort of rumble along with class. I don't think it fair to judge this 454 that someone abused, so I shall wait a few more weeks to try a totally redone RV version of the 454. I will attempt to judge it as if I had never driven the old one first. I bet I will like it as much as most of you do here on this forum, especially in the new to me Airstream.

[59toaster]

Well the one achillies heel of the 454 is they had some oiling problems on the cam and that cause a lot of flat lobes. When they started with the factory roller cam that problem seems to have gone away. There is a relativly easy fix available to get a little more oil on the cam to help prevent this. It's a tube that is tapped into the oil galley and lays in the valley above the cam. It has some pin holes in it to spray oil on the cam. Jegs and Summit both have kits all though you can make one pretty easy with a small copper line and some fittings.

It's a impressive motor even stock. Lots of torque at very low RPM's. My 88 Sub is laying down 385lbft at 1600RPM and the torque curve stays very flat up to about 2500. In my sub I run away from traffic at the lights with 1/8 throttle and the engine is not even breathing hard making 2400 RPM shifts.

Them poor kids their little hot rod ricers with fart pipes just get so mad when they think they are going to jump the light. I honestly am not trying to drag race them. Truck is just pulling very strong in that RPM range. They haven't got a chance if I give it more then half throttle. LOL
Displacement is a nasty addiction.

[RonJudi]

Toaster and All you who like that 454,
I bet I will be impressed as well. I sure hope the RV version is a real good choice for the extra Bucks. Yes the standard Jasper 454 for a P30 is a lot less dough. I also hope the Jasper people arn't just blowing smoke for that extra thousand. They talk a good story and I hope the extra torque is not at the expense of a rougher idle. We AS people are pretty close to our motors and the stock motor is pretty smooth. Maybe somebody else on this forum has tried a Jasper RV version or something similiar and knows what to expect. Chrome plated vlaves, extra hard stalite exhaust valves, RV cam, better balanced pistons and cranks, accurate oiling, and closer tolerences are all great only if it translates into better performance as in: more poweful acceleration and climbs, greater mpg, and a longer life RV engine. As far as a 75K Warranty, I do not care as I probably will only get to about 10K in three years if I am lucky. I also do not plan to enter my vehicle in the Daytona 500. I havn't made great decisions so far so I am due one now. Anybody think I wasted an extra K for nothing. Ron

[jim8860]

You can't go wrong with a Jasper motor. I have installed a few other brands of rebuild with not much luck.As for the GM crate real nice deal but a very short warranty.Spent the extra dollars with Jasper it's worth it.Good luck

[RonJudi]

Reading back on all your posts I noticed that many of you including fangthorpe talked about repairs on the engine in the vehicle. He is probably right in many cases that a unique failure in an engine especially a relatively low mileage one could be taken care in one hole and maybe still in the vehicle. Those of you that have the Land Yacht and Classic models are at a disadvantage as far as accomplishing that. The Suburban is relatively easy to work on and gain engine access compared to these MHs. My previous experence with RVs is towing as well. That brings me to this last comment about you guys that tow. A Suburban driver that can drop the tow must be like a Corvette driver with that big engine. The MH on the other hand never gets to enjoy the rush of rapid acceleration. We will just have to find another way to get that boyhood thrill that never seems to go away even at age 62.

[RonJudi]

Engine came out through the drivers open door with manifolds still attached. Update on installation in 1993 Land Yacht.

[59toaster]

Originally posted by RonJudi
Engine came out through the drivers open door with manifolds still attached. Update on installation in 1993 Land Yacht.

Now I would have liked to have seen that!

As for the Hot rod and acceleration stuff. Just need more displacement. 502 Ram Jet would do nice. Then make a Plexi Glass engine hatch. At the campground your lady can show off the coach to other Ladys and us guys could all gather around the 502 under glass and watch you rev it up.

[donnall]

Ron,
Now's the time to install headers too. The banks are great you will be supprised at the power with the new motor and headers.

Good Luck
Don

[RonJudi]

Unit should be back in my hands this week Feb 16-20th if things continue smoothly. While in shop, Transmission fluid change and check out of major systems. Alternator was changed before so all that needs replacement (we hope) is leaky power steering pump, and the usual Plat Plugs, Delco Disb Cap, Rotor, Thermostat, belts, hoses, and minor items. Starting with Mobile One as the Jasper has been test run all ready at the Factory. I will keep you informed with further info as it becomes available. I Think I am supposed to get a data sheet on static run and if so I will be glad to share that. Ron

[fangthorpe]

Don't put the synthetic in so soon, no matter what they tell you about the motor being pre-run. It's so slippery it will prevent the rings from wearing in the crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls and you'll either smoke or leak. Wait a couple of oil changes.

[zduke4x]

I am sure you and your mechanic are on top of it, but as a friendly reminder, the radiator working near 100% with maybe a water wetter is very important with 454's....heat is a killer....lol..jem

[RonJudi]

Sounds like a couple of good tips. I think you may be right on the oil. I really don't know how long the engine has been pre-run so I had better check on that. I do want a good break in. The last thing I want is another engine pumping oil. I suspect problems in the cooling system may have hastenened the early departure of the other engine so I do want to make sure the entire system is tight and has no leaks. Per our previous posts the cooling system will contain distilled water and quality antifreeze and I will be looking for any possible indication of further problems. The heater core which was just replaced may have been a contributing factor in the demise of the other engine . I will never know as this predates my ownership.
I appreciate the comments which reminded me to check on hoses and belts as well. Probably all ready taken care of by the Shop but never hurts to check. Matter of fact I will do that today. Today happened: New engine mounted and proceeding well. Should be able to be started tomorrow. Went in as easy as it came out through the drivers door. NAPA oil until we do an old fashioned break in as suggested. I'll try to get two or three hundered miles on her before we head out on a long trip. Probably monitor the heat gauge, oil pressure and oil level closely during the break in and then change oil so I can inspect it. As a Pilot I usually like to fly over the airport and not stray to far when I do an engine change. Hopefully I can catch any potential problem before I head out. I am expectedly gun shy after my recent experiences and only wish I had a few more instruments to monitor. You know, like egt, cht, manifold pressure or even a tachometer. They don't give you too much on these Land Yachts and P30 chassis.

[zduke4x]

Please let us know the results of your efforts. Especially the Jasper RV engine and how it goes...lol.....jem

[RonJudi]

Yes, I will continue to update. Today, little to report since garage is very busy and they pulled off to take care of other business. I have been flexible on my deadline and really haven't been pushing them. That said, they know I need my unit by this weekend so I can get my test run in. Mechanic has an excellent reputation in the community so I expect my patence to be rewarded with a top job. I do relay that the job has gone smoothly so far and engine R & R was routine for them. Belts are on and next step is intake mainfold and TBI. Japer is supposed to give us all a report on performance on the RV model and a comparison to their standard P30 engine. All I have so far is a vague claim of 10% increase in HP and Torque, but I am waiting for the info from Jasper in written form so I can post it for comment here. Then it will be interesting to see how many AS people would pay the extra $918 difference to specify the RV model when they can still get the standard Jasper version. The engine changes are all internal so one can not physically see anything different from the engine that came with our Airstreams. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve hoping that Morning comes soon!

[RonJudi]

Got MH back late this afternoon and it seems OK except a small tick like a very small exhaust leak. Might be something else but appears to be very minor and I will get that taken care of tomorrow. We could only notice this problem by running the unit with the engine cover off. Mechanic found another problem during test drive which also may explain some of why old engine met early demise. Temperature gage indication was a bit high on initial test drive and auxilary electric fan could barely keep engine in the normal zone. Mechanic quickly diagnosed that fan clutch was defective and I approved replacement. Within an hour the the old clutch was replaced and 2nd test drive commenced. This time the engine reached operating temperature and gauge showed a steady normal 210 degree Zone. The temperature activated electric fan did not even come on. You could see the thermostat doing its thing and cycling as it should. HMM! Someone has added the accessory electric fan because the engine was running hot but didn't catch low airflow at high temperature of engine driven fan. WARNINGl, the electric fan is a nice addition, but will not cool the engine by itself. After mechanic replaced the fan clutch, the electric fan in front of the radiator was spinning almost as if it was activated even though it was not. The engine was up to temperature and the draft from the properly operating engine driven fan was moving the air as it should. That old fan will fool many of us, while the defective fan clutch appeared to be working fine at lower temperatures the clutch was not holding at higher temperatures . Folks this mechanic is good. Now the cost including replacement of engine, water pump, fan clutch, power steering pump, and miscellaneous including transmission service comes to $5360. Of that, $4038 was the Jasper MH engine. I provided plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, distilled water and antifreeze. Stuff I had on hand. What do you think? I am heading out next week. Ron

[Rick Alston]

A classic mistake made by many motorhome owners is to neglect the engine.

I met a man that was proud because he changed the oil once a year simply because he drove it about 3K miles each year! I cannot attest to the condition of his engine, but I bet it is nowhere near "good" for 40K miles.

I also witness people run the engine <10 minutes or so "every so often" during the off-season period. I have been told that this just makes the engine run under severe conditions caused by thick oil not warming up the optimal viscosity.

I believe the right way to do it is to drive the MH for 20 minutes at least once each month. This will allow the engine to heat-up to operating temperature and burn off any moisture that may accumulate in the engine.

I am glad you are going to use a synthetic oil. I have found the small additional cost to be worthwhile as I am approaching 140K (Suburban) without a problem. In fact, I use synthetic transmission fluid (about $5/quart at Autozone), too.

Rick

[zduke4x]

Seems to me that the labor was very reasonable, particularly since you feel the mechanic is top notch....the reasonable labor certainly off sets off some of the RV engine extra fee....congratulations and good luck....jem

[RonJudi]

UPDATE: As we suspected the tick was a small leak somewhere on the starboard side exhaust manifold. All the bolts on that side were rechecked and tightened. After each bolt was torqued we listened. The last forward bolt did the trick and check was handed over. Mechanic then thanked me for my business , gave me a quality questionaire on his service and I headed out the door with a 3 Yr/75K Warranty which I hope I do not have to use. The engine is smooth, quiet, and has plenty of power. We drove the AS around town today as if it were a sports car to see how it feels with the new Jasper RV 454. It feels great! We accelerated up the steep hill of the town bypass and were surprised to see a few cars falling off in the rear view mirror. I was very impressed with the smoothness of the new engine going up the hill. I opened up the air cleaner and celebrated finding no blowby. By gosh the rings have all ready seated. A non motor home mechanic friend and I probably put 50 or so miles on her today. We ran her through all the things that we were taught about breaking in an engine. The shop had all ready done most of those things but we did them again. Its early but I like what I see and feel. Let you know more after a trip or so. Yes, I would definitely recommend this shop and as far as the Jasper Engine, so far so good, I'll let you know in a few thousand miles. Thanks Everyone for your advice and encouragement.