The 23FB forum

[urban]

Originally Posted by PKI

You need to be carefull in loading your coach. A 640# capacity is better than our 600, but it is not a slam dunk. A WDH will weigh about 80#s which adds to that 467#s. Any water in the fresh tank is additive as well.

Step one - if at all possible, establish if your 640 is a receiver capacity or a chassis capacity. If the issue is the receiver, you can strengthen it or replace with a stronger aftermarket unit. If it a chassis limitation you will have to manage the tongue weight through loading.

Step two - you have noticed that 600 is 10% of the max gross, so you are in the door on a stable rig. Worth checking at the scales, but likely going to be good.

Step three - there is a lot of space under the bed. Do not use it for heavy items. Store light weight bulky items like chairs, empty water jugs and your Cheetos under the bed. Store your heavy items over the wheels.

Step four - you can move weight from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the front axle in two ways. The first is how you load your tow vehicle. Do not place any heavy items behind the rear axle. Place light items there. Locate and secure heavy items between the axles. The second is with your weight transfer hitch. The WDH can and will leverage weight to the tow vehicle front axle and some to the back axle of the trailer as well. Balancing the load out is an itterative process. Scales are your friend.

Step five - do not be convinced that transfering tongue weight to another axle is removing it. The mass is still there and the moment of that mass will have a negative effect in an excursion event. So in loading, less mass in the ends is better than more as long as the tongue weight minimums are maintained for stability. Understand that static mass (tongue and gross weight) is used to project the dynamic forces that will result from your travel. You can reduce the maximum forces your rig will see if you travel and do transitions at a slower rate of speed.

Good luck with your investigation. Hope to meet you down the road with a smile. Pat

Thanks for the reply.

The hitch weight is for the vehicle. It came with tow package which raises the normal towing. I would assume this is the top.

the air streams seem pretty well balanced though? I also imagine the dual axle helps. Most of the storage and water tanks seem to be pretty well centered on the axles too so that shouldn't change the overall balance it seems, with the exception of the under bed storage.

While a weight distributing hitch does add weight to the front of the trailer isn't the idea that it actually reduces hitch weight? If I went to a solar set up I would also remove the front battery and try to mount the new one more center which I am sure would help a good deal.

Also, as far as transferring weight, everything else is in capacity. The TV still has 680lb payload and everything fully loaded is 100lb under combined gvwr. the truck has an aftermarket leaf pack with 5 leafs plus two overloads where factory is 4 and one. obviously the heaviest gear in the back is best suited in the front of the bed still.

I'm just curious if the 10% ratio of hitch weight holds up when loaded, mostly.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by urban

-- snip -- While a weight distributing hitch does add weight to the front of the trailer isn't the idea that it actually reduces hitch weight? -- snip -- mount the new one more center -- snip -- curious if the 10% ratio of hitch weight holds up when loaded, mostly.

No - see step five. Yes, relocation of AGM or Lithium batteries is a common way to take weight off the tongue. A bit of investment, but adds value if you need the adjustment. Look at suit case solar before you go big. Yes, it seems too. The range of 10-15% tongue weight is normally considered to be an appropriate distribution for towing stability. When you start at 10%, loadout is under your control, so not hard to manage if you use care.

Do some research on how to weigh your rig. Scale tickets are a good way to document your baseline and track changes to rig balance. Do not do it once and figure you are done. Rigs tend to gain weight over time. The paper plates get replaced with Corelle, a pot goes on for soup, two chairs get added for guests, and so on.

The woofer is located under the forward dinnette seat on our rig. We are not audiophiles, so it is unplugged and moved to the hot water heater locker to clear that area for over the axle storage.

We carry little fresh water. Maybe 5 gallons. We carry bottled water over the axles. CanAm recommends a full tank and says the FB tows better with that load. We tried it for the ABF and it seems to help, but we still want to travel light and dumped the load back to normal.

So - research, test, validate the weight with a scale ticket and document your changes. Tuning is an itterative process.

Good luck with the research. Pat

[GettinAway]

Great info Pat. I haven't paid that close attention to weights, towing the 23FB with a Tundra. I have a (short) trip planned in April with the 23FB, and a 400# motorcycle in the bed if the truck. I think I'll go by the scales.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by urban

While a weight distributing hitch does add weight to the front of the trailer isn't the idea that it actually reduces hitch weight?

Careful here. A WD hitch does NOT reduce hitch weight, it reduces tow vehicle rear axle load. That may be a subtle difference, but it is a real difference. All of your hitch weight is still on the hitch, but your WD hitch lifts up on the hitch, and therefore the frame, taking weight off of the rear axle and transferring it to the front axle and the trailer axle(s). There is a lot of ambiguity about terminology. Here is how I wish the terminology was used.

Tongue weight - trailer weight that presses down on the tow ball. This weight is important to reduce trailer sway and should be between 12% and 15% of trailer weight.

Hitch weight - all of the weight that the hitch has to support. It consists of tongue weight and the weight of the WD hitch itself. The weight of the WD hitch is supported by the hitch, so it must be considered hitch weight, but it does not (by virtue of its weight alone) contribute to reducing trailer sway, so it is not part of tongue weight.

Rear axle load - all weight that is on the tow vehicle rear axle to include tongue weight, hitch weight (which includes tongue weight), and weight in the trunk or bed of the truck behind the rear axle.

It is the rear axle load that a WD hitch transfers to the other axles.

[Muriel 1]

Getting away
I may try loading my Honda 250 (325#)into the short bed diagonally this year.
I have figured I will be under my payload.
Solo traveler (200#).
Minimum gear,kit only.
I have twin aluminum ramps.
Full tanks,water/propane.
Tundra payload on sill 1360#.
Is that what your set up would be?
Just how dang cool would that be,for my yearly Rocky Mountain adventure!
Just curious?
Tom

[GettinAway]

I should have got one of the Eddie Bauer ASs. Put the KTM 690 in the back. But right now we still like the 23FB. It'd be nice if AS had a substantial frame under it you could hang a motorcycle on the back. I can only imagine what that would do to stability though. I'll be alone, and there's water available in the state park where I'm headed, so I will try to pack really light with the bike in the bed of the Tundra. I'll post a pic (in April)

[Fishindog]

Hello,

New to this thread and Airstream! After looking at every make & model of R.V. in our 7 year search for a camping trailer, and visiting the AS factory in Ohio, we finally bought a beautiful, one owner 2011 International 23fb! We are so excited to get it home. We joined the club, and local region 10 for Oregon, and look forward to our first trip.

Here’s a few questions I have of the veteran experts out there:

1. We’d like to replace the red cushions with tan ultra leather but AS wants $3000. Nothing here local in our town of 9000. Any thoughts?
2. Sound system speaker over door doesn’t work; how to troubleshoot?
3. Clear plastic seal on shower pan, that the shower door seals against, needs replacing; anyone know what it’s called and where/how to order?
4. Many door hinge decorative trim caps are broken or missing, Anyone know where to order?
5. Looks like a knife was dropped, cutting a small slice in the floor; how to repair?
6. Round, white plastic, sink cover has been used extensively as a cutting board; where to order a new one?
7. Thoughts on a wine rack?

As you can see we’re probably more “picky” than most with the little things; but I want to keep it as close to “like new” as possible; it’s a major investment for us.

Also, any thoughts or recommendations on must have ideas, or must do suggestions, on using or outfitting our new dream trailer would be appreciated!

David

[Rob Edgerton]

Fishindog, the hardware items and sink cover can be ordered from Airstream, or you might try Airstream NW up in PDX. They have a pretty extensive parts department if you happen to be up that way. The cut in the flooring is a little more difficult, as the floor is not actually attached to the subfloor except around the outside edges of the trailer. Again, contact service at Airstream NW for suggestions.

If you are ever up Yamhill way, we have full service courtesy connection for Airstream owners.

[Fishindog]

Originally Posted by Rob Edgerton

Fishindog, the hardware items and sink cover can be ordered from Airstream, or you might try Airstream NW up in PDX. They have a pretty extensive parts department if you happen to be up that way. The cut in the flooring is a little more difficult, as the floor is not actually attached to the subfloor except around the outside edges of the trailer. Again, contact service at Airstream NW for suggestions.

If you are ever up Yamhill way, we have full service courtesy connection for Airstream owners.

Thanks Rob! Yes, we bought our AS from AS NW in Portland, about 3 hours away. They were great and I’ll be sure to contact them to see if they can help identify and ship some of the smaller parts. I also appreciate the offer of a space to park if we are in the area! So great to be part of a “community” of owners that help each other out.

[PKI]

There is a liquid cement that is used to seal vinyl flooring. Chech with an installer to see if it can be used to repair a short slit.

The ultra leather change is something that about any automotive or marine interior shop should be able to help you change out. Not sure about cost though. You may have to shop a bit to save on that $3K quote. Upgrade the foam to stiff as part of the deal.

Cutting board should be a stock item, but a wood replacement would be a great DIY project. One of the folks put a hole in their big round cover. Think the idea would work on a double sink unit too. Being able to pour liquid through a hole without moving the cover would be nice. Believe there is a picture on D thread.

The wine rack, now that's the deal. We went cheap. Visited the local Beverages and More store. They had linear three bottle foam and cardboard shipping containers. A pair of these fit between the bed and the front wall. Stores the wine out of the way in space we would not normally use. They also fit in the curb side closet, which moves the weight closer to the axles. More recently we picked up a similar six bottle box for longer trips. It goes on the floor next to the street side closet or nested under the curb side closet.

Good luck with your improvements. Hope to see them down the road. Pat

[RFP]

Originally Posted by PKI

< snip > One of the folks put a hole in their big round cover. Think the idea would work on a double sink unit too. Being able to pour liquid through a hole without moving the cover would be nice. Believe there is a picture on D thread.

< snip>

Here you go...

Great - and easy - mod. Works perfectly. The 5" hole will let a coffee cup, or even my hand, into the sink without uncovering.

[rmkrum]

Sometimes it is possible to thoroughly clean a plastic cutting board then use a heat gun (hair dryer on steroids) to carefully soften the surface of the board and smooth out the cuts and scratches in the surface. May not get back to factory texture, but you can get it smooth again.

Personally, I like the idea of making a nice wooden one with a hole in it as suggested above. I have the appropriate tools, just need to find some time...

[Muriel 1]

Gettin Away
Possible great adventure rig——
Tundra single cab 8 ft bed 4x2.
Diamond plate 8 ft aluminum side boxes.
Kargo master rack.
1885# payload on sill.
Carry all adventure kit and tools.
Carry KTM (very nice).
Carry kayaks.
Carry bicycles.
IMO
Tom

[Muriel 1]

Getting Away
We had (7) Tundras in our company fleet.
These are IMO 325000 mile trucks.
I have 247000 work miles on my 2007.
Buy used.
Buy with clean car fax.
Buy with max tow.
Toyota care service on carfax is a plus.
Probably pay 12-14 k for a great one.
They are kind of rare with 8 ft bed.
Set up ultimate adventure tow rig in
12-14k range.
1885# payload on sill.
Cheaper than EB
Love my 23 fb!
Tom

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Muriel 1

Gettin Away
Possible great adventure rig——
Tundra single cab 8 ft bed 4x2.
Diamond plate 8 ft aluminum side boxes.
Kargo master rack.
1885# payload on sill.
Carry all adventure kit and tools.
Carry KTM (very nice).
Carry kayaks.
Carry bicycles.
IMO
Tom

Tom, I think I'd still need the little Honda generator. Plus I need the double cab, 4x4 to get where I need to go with "more stuff." Which all means I'll be over the max load. Choices choices choices.. Nice to know I'd have trouble free operation with the Tundra, and I think they are overbuilt, but by how much?

[KellySLC]

Hello all. I could really use the collective wisdom of you who live with (and love or hate) the side, wrap-around dinette in your 23FBs. I am rebuilding my 1957 Bubble and thinking of converting its front, street-side dinette into the wrap-around style the same size as yours in your FBs. I've read all the posts here and in the 23D/CB thread, and plan on incorporating the ideas I've seen. I planned on building mine with a better slope to the back, a smaller table with fold-out "leafs," and getting rid of the big pedestal table base. I'm thinking of using some origami thing that either pops up from below or detaches and stores away like the Lagun base from the boating world.

The Bubble is tiny - I believe its the smallest AS made with a bath at only 12'9" x 7'2" inside. We've spent a lot of time camping in our even-smaller Casita, which also has a fixed rear bed, and we're OK using the bed as hang-out space - what other choice is there?

We thought of copying the Casita layout, which has a front bath and closet with a street side 24x72 dinette and curb side galley, but that dinette is super small and we're polishing the Bubble's end-caps and don't want the front completely hidden. We also thought of using the layout of the 2018 Bambi 16RB (curb-side bath, front dinette, rear bed), since its nearly identical in size to the Bubble, but it seems really closed off to me with the tall cabinets on both sides of the walkway.

I've attached pics of my hand-drawn layout along with one of the original floorpan and pics of Bubble with that floorpan (not mine, mine was gutted). I moved my fridge to the closet to increase the size of the forward dinette bench and added the seat against the street side to make it the wrap-around style.

Is it really dumb to try to incorporate the wrap dinette? It just seems like a better place to lounge around than the dinette with the street side mounted table.

Thoughts?

[PKI]

First, the pedistal with an ability to move up and down is a great feature as it is a solid place to secure gear while traveling. If you go origami, give gear securement points some consideration.

U-shape is problematic in that folks share foot space, so limit that issue with dedicated space for each intended seat location. The flat lounge surface configuration is nice for an alternate use of the space. It may or may not be the best alternative sleeping space as the length available in the 23 is limited. Yours may be a bit larger and have more utility.

Good luck with your project. Maximize storage in the places needed to balance and concentrate the gear load over axle and low. Pat

[KellySLC]

Thanks for the suggestions, Pat. I had thought about going with a "gaucho" couch set up too, but it seems impersonal. I always feel awkward sitting next to someone chatting, rather than facing them. It would certainly be easier to build though.

And yes, everyone playing footsie in a limited space is definitely a consideration. Anyone have the actual dimensions of the street side section that makes the bottom of the "U"? It looks to be shallower than the sides.

[PKI]

The area over the wheel well does look a bit narrower, but it may not be. It is half the width and that looks close to same. Maybe someone with the coach at home will measure and get back to you. Here is a picture that may help. Pat

[GettinAway]

The older FBs (ours is a 2011) have the older style dinettes. They are not U shaped, and the table attaches to the wall. We never need to lower it because it's just the two of us. We find the dinette very comfortable to eat at, or sit and read. I've always thought the 23FB was crowded with a third person, let alone a fourth. The only downside is that the best views are usually out the back of the trailer, the person sitting facing the bedroom looks back towards the road (on back in sites). We have to take turns getting the better view.