Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[Tim A.]

Originally Posted by wagnerda

The only item that I have had any corrosion on was the shiny little cover over the rear license plate lite. There was about 1 inch x 1/4 inch of rust along the edge of it when I took the trailer into JC for service last month and they simply installed a new one (for free).

That chromed cover over the license plate light is infamous for rusting. I solved the problem by polishing ours with metal polish and spraying it with automotive clearcoat. I bought the clearcoat at an auto parts store. If you do this, remember to take the cover off and do the job somewhere other than on the Airstream.

[ROBERT CROSS]

No corrosion so far on the 2008 AS I got for Christmas..

[Ahab]

Just a thought, having some knowledge of corrosion processes, the pictures posted here appear to be galvanic in nature. I'm not talking of the ferrous parts or other extraneous fixtures but the actual skin edge and rivet areas. could this be acid rain related?

[tomlong10]

I am a new Airstream owner -- 25 Classic 2007. I just checked our trailer and could not find any evidence of this problem but this thread sure has me worried. I think it is fair at this point to use the expression -- "I wish I did not know now what I did not know then."

The Classic in 2007 has a band around the beltline and I can see on the Airstream site that the 2008 has this same detail. Perhaps that is why I cannot see any problem yet. (Or it may be because it was snowing while I was checking the trailer and so I may have been a little hurried).

Perhaps a group of users should hire an expert to sort out the cause of this problem. I would be willing to be part of that group because I would know so I can keep this from happening to our new trailer.

Tom

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by tomlong10

...The Classic in 2007 has a band around the beltline and I can see on the Airstream site that the 2008 has this same detail...

hi tom and welcome to the big show....

the beltline trim u notice is common to all classics...

and goes back many moons, to the other models in the classic 'dna' line...

we don't need an expert to sort this out...

the alcoa rolled on clearcoat gets breeched during construction OR during use...

and salts (with chlorides) get under the coating....

then a corrosive action begins in the filiform pattern.

go back and read the filiform references for a basic understanding.

and the newer road salt formulations are TOO MUCH for the other bits (wheels, door handles, light housings, so on) currently used.

what we DO need are clearly defined preventives (like waxing/sealants) and proper cosmetic repair steps...

oh yea, we also need a/s to acknowledge the problem...

since all good recovery programs begin by admitting THERE IS A PROBLEM...

cheers
2air'

[tomlong10]

2air' Thanks for your comments. It does seem like the coating is the problem based on what I have read in this thread. And it is possible that waxing the trailer could cause the problem to get worse. So I agree that the point is to understand how to care for these trailers. Is someone working with Airstream to sort this mess out?

Tom

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi tom and welcome to the big show....

the beltline trim u notice is common to all classics...

and goes back many moons, to the other models in the classic 'dna' line...

we don't need an expert to sort this out...

the alcoa rolled on clearcoat gets breeched during construction OR during use...

and salts (with chlorides) get under the coating....

then a corrosive action begins in the filiform pattern.

go back and read the filiform references for a basic understanding.

and the newer road salt formulations are TOO MUCH for the other bits (wheels, door handles, light housings, so on) currently used.

what we DO need are clearly defined preventives (like waxing/sealants) and proper cosmetic repair steps...

oh yea, we also need a/s to acknowledge the problem...

since all good recovery programs begin by admitting THERE IS A PROBLEM...

cheers
2air'

AMEN!

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi tom and welcome to the big show....

the beltline trim u notice is common to all classics...

and goes back many moons, to the other models in the classic 'dna' line...

we don't need an expert to sort this out...

the alcoa rolled on clearcoat gets breeched during construction OR during use...

and salts (with chlorides) get under the coating....

then a corrosive action begins in the filiform pattern.

go back and read the filiform references for a basic understanding.

and the newer road salt formulations are TOO MUCH for the other bits (wheels, door handles, light housings, so on) currently used.

what we DO need are clearly defined preventives (like waxing/sealants) and proper cosmetic repair steps...

oh yea, we also need a/s to acknowledge the problem...

since all good recovery programs begin by admitting THERE IS A PROBLEM...

cheers
2air'

2air,

That is getting to the point!

I agree with 2air, the forum has helped us identify the problem and confirm it is not isolated to just a few. it seems the problem is getting worse as more folks add their comments.

The problem has nothing to do with our care of our Airstream as the Airstream Corporation has declared. I was told that my corrosion "is not covered under warranty because it is a maintenance issue". I think not and I am willing to take that bet!

I have $1000 sitting here ready to take action, the only kind of action that a corporation understands, how many folks with corrosion are ready to pony up to get this done....I for one will not sit around and wait for something wrong to get worse. In earlier threads I posted that I would take action to solve this issue if Airstream Corporate continued to stonewall us, people who know me will attest to my unforgiving relentlessness, the term "Bull Dog" has been used more than once.

If say, 25 of us get together to "solve" this issue with Airstream Corporate, we have a chance of righting a wrong, to me, that is just as important as fixing the corrosion.

If you are more comfortable discussing this off-line, please PM me.

time

[Silvertwinkie]

TS,

I was going to PM you this, but thought why not just post it....

Here are my thoughts FWIW:

First, even if there was a fix to our units, the options as I see them are not much better (panel overlay, removal and replacement of panel), strip it down and re-clear it, etc, and with current building methods, no sure thing that it just won't come back. Sure you can cover it up, but what happens if and when the spider webs start coming out from under any coverings??

Second, go the route of getting a discount on a new Airstream? Same problem may still exist with units rolling off the line.

Third, get money back for a defective engineering issue? Great, but that money would go right to a place that would strip and recoat it, only needing to be coated again later as we have all seen-- or get it painted.

So I am with you, I just don't know what really could be done that would be a great solution....it would seem to me that any route we take isn't all that great.

What were you suggesting to do with that $1000? Class action, with what outcome?

Let's just say for kicks that Airstream ack the issue and has a new production method that solves this? What could that mean to all of us that have this issue? Might not solve the issue for units built before any said production change too place.

[crazylev]

Airstream needs to acknowledge the problem, either internally or publicly and immediately address units being manufactured NOW. Something is up with the manufacture and/or prep of this metal, that is showing up in just a short time. They don't make the alluminum, so they need to make a phone call to Alcoa, or whoever they got the supply of affected material.

I say fix the problem for units rolling off the line right now, and then address issues and concerns from owners with this nightmare.

Jonathan

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

TS,

I was going to PM you this, but thought why not just post it....

Here are my thoughts FWIW:

First, even if there was a fix to our units, the options as I see them are not much better (panel overlay, removal and replacement of panel), strip it down and re-clear it, etc, and with current building methods, no sure thing that it just won't come back. Sure you can cover it up, but what happens if and when the spider webs start coming out from under any coverings??

Second, go the route of getting a discount on a new Airstream? Same problem may still exist with units rolling off the line.

Third, get money back for a defective engineering issue? Great, but that money would go right to a place that would strip and recoat it, only needing to be coated again later as we have all seen-- or get it painted.

So I am with you, I just don't know what really could be done that would be a great solution....it would seem to me that any route we take isn't all that great.

What were you suggesting to do with that $1000? Class action, with what outcome?

Let's just say for kicks that Airstream ack the issue and has a new production method that solves this? What could that mean to all of us that have this issue? Might not solve the issue for units built before any said production change too place.

Yep, it is messy for sure....the outcome....who knows...I just think we have to do something....my concept was to get the ball rolling with an effort that will bring the issue to the surface.

My $1000 would not do jack, but $25,000 would go a long way and at $1000 each our risk/reward is reasonable. Lets also remember there are dozens of government agencies designed to protect consumers, and they don't charge a dime.

It is not hard to prove that Airstream claims their products are the best in the world and last longer than any of their competitors....Is corrosion considered to decrease the value of our purchase? Do you think that if you went to sell a unit that has this problem you would get less money? The consumer has a right to expect reasonable value, did we get it?

Please remember that we love our Airstream, and have no intention of leaving the ranks, we just believe that the problem can and should be solved so that someday our Airstream can also be a "vintage" and not a scrap heap. The manufacturer does have a responsibility to live up to their claims and preserve their reputation.

Just an idea...we are open and ready to go.

time

[Gene]

Class actions are expensive and difficult. Several years ago Congress made it more difficult to bring a federal class action (guess which political party pushed it through). $25,000 is not a lot of money to pay experts to look at several trailers all over the country and do the testing and research necessary. Finding the right products liability lawyer can be difficult. I don't know what Ohio law would be for a state action. That type would probably be brought in the defendant's state although there may be other forums based on their dealership network.

Since the lawyer will probably work on a contingency basis, the potential recovery must be enough to make it worth his/her time. I am unsure whether there is enough of a potential recovery to make it worth the time involved to prove the case. A win would probably bring money, not new trailers or other work. Otherwise, you'd have to pay the lawyer for his/her time. This is how contingency cases usually work. If a lawyer wants to do the case on an hourly basis, it usually means he/she doesn't believe you have much of a chance. But it might be a good lawyer will start the process to see where it can go on an hourly basis and if it looks good, switch to contingency (I've done that before I retired). Every case is different.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but this is just reality. Sometimes the threat of a lawsuit gets some action, and maybe that would be all that was needed. Few lawsuits actually get to trial, but there's usually a lot of work and expense to get to the place where everyone is willing to settle.

Seems like those of you who are willing to go forward need to make sure who is in your group and start talking to lawyers to make a judgment about representation. Good luck. I hope I don't need to join you.

Gene

[Silvertwinkie]

Ok, so I don't know where this still leaves us. I'm open to nearly any suggestion. I got nothing but silence when trying to talk to Dave Schumann about the issue. Factory rep told me to put clear nail polish all over my airstream after I lightly sanded it. I may still have the email.

Edit...here is the email answer I got from them:

From some of the photo’s I would suggest cleaning the area and then applying a cover such as clear finger nail polish to help prevent the spread. I am checking with Chris to see if we can pull past records to see what was done at the service shop.

Randy
Airstream Customer Relations

This was the last thing I ever heard from Airstream about the issue.

Anyone have any next step ideas? Anyone want to be part of a list of owners sending a registered letter to the Pres of Airstream and Thor and see what they say before going to the next level?
I know for a fact that folks at Airstream in Jackson Center are here on this forum and have read these threads, so it won't be like some big secret when some sort of request for action comes.....

[TIMEMACHINE]

CrawfordGene,

Thanks for your input. Although we have never met, it appears that Silvertwinkie and I are on the same page......we may not know exactly the right path to a solution....but we know that if we just sit and do nothing, the outcome is easy to predict....no solution. I have been involved in enough legal situations to understand your advice as to potential outcomes, and it is sad to see that our system is so entangled that I will not use the word "justice" to descibe the process. I am not sure that the proper course of action is through the civil court system, at least not as an individual plaintiff. And a class action, as you suggest, is full of pitfalls. There are other ways to get this done, there are methods to make this a bigger problem for Airstream than it is for those with corrosion, it's only our past time, it is their livelyhood.

Is it fair to assume that your AS does not have a corrosion issue? I wonder if your AS looked like ours if your perspective would change. Either way, your comments are well placed and probably good advice.

Silvertwinkie,

I think we should start with you and me, thats two to start, the next step is gathering others who want something to happen besides watching our prized Airstreams waste away, inck by inch. Maybe there is only one more who believes that we can solve the problem, or maybe there are 10, or maybe 50, I guess we will find out. Once we have a group, then we can discuss ideas as to the best approach, have a meeting of the minds, create a plan, and then execute.

Then again maybe someone of authority at Airstream will see this thread and decide that a group of customers who have enough financial strength to buy the most expensive travel trailer made may just be smart enough to persuade the right people to do the right thing.

There is only one thing worse than to make me mad, and that is to make me think.

John

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

...others who want something to happen besides watching our prized Airstreams waste away, inck by inch...

well this might be a little overly dramatic...

still it's an understandable, but emotional response...

filiform is primarily a COSMETIC issue NOT a structural one. these units aren't wasting away.

having had an a/s more than 1/2 my life, consider this reference.

virtually EVERY surface finish a/s has used, has had issues over the years.

they've had plasti-coat nighmares and piles of angry customers to deal with...

they had adhesive issues on the rivetless units and with some of the exterior laminates....

they PAINTED nearly a full year of silver aluminum units when new because of crappy reformulations on the plasticoat.

about the LEAST trouble was the argosy line, and many still look good with original 30 year old paint....

the next most durable finish appears to be the CURRENT alcoa rolled clearcoat...

which sadly shows the filiform crud, that makes us ITCH!

painted units aren't immune from this, it's just that the filiform creep is under opaque pigments, so it's not seen...

till the unit is stripped for a fresh painting...

IF you wanna look for solutions go to the aircraft industry and learn how they deal with this issue....

and continue to deal with it, on aircraft again and again.

over the last year i've seen a/s units from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the new ones...

with areas (or entire skins) affected by the new road salts.

and these extra corrosive salts are mostly a new degree of assault, that NO vehicle manufacture has fully overcome.

this fall i saw two near mint previously polished 60s units....

that were COVERED with a disgusting lattice of web/filiform corrosion, that was just from the last 2 years...

the owner's ONLY sin, he stores his trailers IN a barn downwind (1 mile) from a county road salt pile.

i fully agree it IS UGLY on a shiny new trailer...

but a/s is likely to blame alcoa, who will likely blame a/s and then alcoa might cut off the skin supply!

individual owners need to get the beltline trim, learn a good sealant/waxing process (not walbernize)

experiment with the anti corrosion sprays and keep after the surface issues...

and a/s needs to handle panels differently during production, develop some sort of cut edge sealant and continue to work on NEW COATINGS

but the trailers aren't wasting away, newer owners might be losing the sparkle but the twinkies roll on...

in no way am i implying not to take action (legal, cosmetic, or financial) but a historic reference point may beuseful...

or not.

cheers
2air'

[Silvertwinkie]

Joe, I can buy most of what you are saying, but my unit is in a somewhat temp and humidity controlled unit. My Safari has NEVER been exposed to salt that I am aware of since I took delivery of my Safari new, in which it traveled from Jackson Center to Piqua to Chicago.

Though I don't discount the salt comments entirely, the issue is far more widespread. Heck, I've even put a water filter on the hose to wash it thinking that might slow some of the areas by removing any residual metals, chorines, salts from the city water supply...guess what...new ones still formed.

....and what about the units built and delivered to customers, where the unit is 6 months old and the finishes are basically failing at that early stage.

Also, if you've read John's posts, Airstream is basically blowing him off saying they wont cover the finish due to it being a maint issue. IF that is true, why has Airstream, in Jackson Center, overlaid panels, added belt line trim, emblems and replaced both wheels, cast alum tail lights etc. Seems to me that a new policy may have taken place since some of our exp.

Bottom line, I am with John on this one. So far we have two folks, you want in, PM John or myself with your name, address, phone, email, month, year of production, VIN number and issues specifically to your unit that match what we've been talking about. Either John or I will figure out something to put together.

The one thing I totally agree with John about is if we do nothing, the end result is assured. Keep in mind I didn't expect my Airstream finish to last it's lifetime, nor did I think it would be perfect for 10 years, but less than 2 years and others 6 months? I don't care what the airlines do, this is unacceptable. If your Ford or my Chevy had paint blemishes start showing up after 6 months or 2 years I think we'd all have legit gripes.

[Gene]

I agree I would be more involved if my unit had corrosion. I am concerned about the future. After I read this thread before we bought our unit in October, I thought of not buying one, but it appeared there were fewer reports of problems in recent years, so we took the chance. At least aluminum doesn't rust.

I suppose people at the company read these things, and maybe they respond with product improvements, maybe not. It seems that the response callers (or e-mailers) get from A/S depends on who they talk to rather than any company policy and indicates the company's customer relations dept. is not well organized (note, save any e-mails for possible use in legal proceedings).

Telling people corrosion is a maintenance issue is bad policy in many ways:
1. It angers your best advertisers: your previous customers,
2. If there are problems in making the product (and especially if you are aware it) no amount of maintenance makes any real difference. They ought to know that and it indicates bad judgment on the part of the executives, but many executives (and politicians) cannot admit they are wrong and that always makes it worse for them in the long run.
3. Refusing to deal with an issue, whether consciously or not, eventually leads to lawyers and that's expensive for everyone, but most of all for the company.

This thread goes back years and if company executives are aware, they have decided people will complain but can be quieted by a decal around the trailer, a replacement of a license plate holder and some other relatively cheap fixes. The accountants tell them that's the cheapest way to deal with it. That's a bad decision for them all if some serious action is taken. My guess from reading many threads is that the company needs to be shaken up because they are ignoring lots of problems and need some new management.

So, again, those of you with damage need to get together—probably contacting each other privately and exchange e-mail addresses so the company doesn't know exactly what you're doing and maybe, if the Forum permits it, starting a different thread soliciting group members, and find the products liability lawyer who will contact the company and move on this. This will require a long term commitment of time and money. I've been retired too long to know who to contact and none I used to know did this kind product. There are enough engineers on the Forum that some may be experts in metals and coatings and may be some help. They can tell you how much they would cost to investigate—it'll be a lot.

An individual has little power to fight a large corporation, so a group is the only practical way to go. So far there's Twink and Time (Joe and John?), so you've got a start. I think there were others in the past willing to challenge this, so go for it. The thing a company fears most is bad publicity and once it gets into the media, they will be really worried.

Gene

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

...The thing a company fears most is bad publicity and once it gets into the media, they will be really worried...

well, FINALLY someone has suggested the potentially best approach...

ring the bell!

so what took ya all so long.... yea baby

just 2b clear, in no way am i or have i been defending a/s.

but i do want to see folks address their own units NOW, with some effective action, and it appears many have.

i'd really like to see a news reporter type get fired up or perhaps a teleperson...

or how about a you tube video of someone's really scabby trailer!

it does matter how aircraft folks handle this issue, and we could benefit from their success.

just a guess but each unit under warranty is probably handled uniquely right now....

IF the issue is at the edges (mostly) beltline trim is used...

and IF the issue is mid panel or a full skin, panel replacement is the treatment.

sure many of the leaders read here, so do the regular working folks at a/s.

the warranty DOES say corrosion and other surface issues aren't covered,

just like it says interior damage (walls, furnishings, carpet) as a result of water leaking isn't covered.

again i'm not defending them just pointing this out.

the warranty department had a wall board with 10 'hot issues' to that lead to specific customers being tagged...

as i recall the list included black mold, wheel bearing failures, corrosion, any threats to hire an attorney, demanding a replacement unit...

and some other 5 items i've forgotten, right now. it was a very interesting list.

IF anyone can get a media type involved that'd be very INTERESTING...

cheers
2air'

[SteSpot]

I have been reading this thread and I have to chime in that one of the reasons we have have decided to buy a vintage trailer and gut the inside rather than purchase a new unit has been this corrosion issue. We know that there is no free lunch and we will probably have issues we have not even thought about by going this route, but we won't have this corrosion issue (a 40 year old trailer will already have corroded if it is going to.). We also know that we will not be saving any money by building a custom trailer in a vintage shell, but we hope we will be more satisfied with our trailer in the end by going this route. We thank you all for sharing your experiences so that others can make a more informed choice when deciding which Airstream is best for them. Keep up the good work and we will be reading your posts. paula

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

There are other ways to get this done, there are methods to make this a bigger problem for Airstream than it is for those with corrosion, it's only our past time, it is their livelyhood.

I think we should start with you and me, thats two to start, the next step is gathering others who want something to happen besides watching our prized Airstreams waste away, inch by inch. Maybe there is only one more who believes that we can solve the problem, or maybe there are 10, or maybe 50, I guess we will find out. Once we have a group, then we can discuss ideas as to the best approach, have a meeting of the minds, create a plan, and then execute.

Then again maybe someone of authority at Airstream will see this thread and decide that a group of customers who have enough financial strength to buy the most expensive travel trailer made may just be smart enough to persuade the right people to do the right thing.

There is only one thing worse than to make me mad, and that is to make me think.

John

Responding to 2air,

Just in case you missed it, some of us have already considered developing a resolution to the corrosion issue by exposing the situation in such a manner as to cause Airstream Corporate to rethink it's current policy.

Also, I don't believe that my comment about "watching our prized Airstreams waste away, inch by inch" is dramatic. My "surface" corrosion is extensive and if allowed to continue will result in problems beyond cosmetic.

If I owned a $5,000, $10,000 or $20,000 Airstream that was 20, 30, 40 or 50 years old that had corrosion, I would not complain, at least not to the manufacturer. I own a $50,000 Airstream that is less than 2 years old, and I am going to complain. When Airstream started touting their product with the "best in the world" advertising and continued to sell their products at prices multiple of their competitors, they also exposed themselves to respective expectations.

Enough said,

Those interested in working together to have their Airstream's corrosion issues solved, please PM me or Silvertwinkie as suggested in his post.

John