What trailer for a Grand Wagoneer?

I have been tying to sovlve the problem of which way to go. I have a Jeep Grand Wagoneer V8, 5000 lb hitch and have been reading about total weights ratio to size of the trailer. What size trailer would be best? Would a trailer even move behind a GW or should I go to a truck?
A motor home would be great but in my situation with Child support the GW would have to go. As a lover of these two American designs it is a little sad to know I can only have one or the other if the GW is not up to towing at leasted an AS 28ft.

[Silvertwinkie]

Here are a few tips on what you need to have a successful tow vehicle (I know some have modded out Intrepids, etc that can do it but I don't suggest it):

Trans cooler

Weight distribution, sway control and a hitch that is rated for the weight to be pulled. I do not believe you can find a 28ft Airstream under the 5000lb hitch you mention, so from your post right out of the gate, you will need a new class IV hitch set. For comparision, my Bambi weighs about 3600lbs empty. It's gross weight is 4600lbs with water, clothes, etc in it. My hitch is rated at 10,000lbs with weight distribution, etc. A bit of overkill since my ride won't pull more than 6500lbs, but there weren't too many options in the "upper" class hitchs.

Brake control unit and brakes (working condition on the rig)

Possibly a lower temperature thermostat

Rear gearing, depending on other uses of the car ranging from 3.42 to 3.73 gear ratios

My car is actually rated at 5000lbs as well, but I know several that pull upwards of 6000lbs. I would NOT personally pull anything much over 6000lbs gross since that would already be almost 1000lbs beyond my tow vehicles gross vehicle weight.

I thought that I read somewhere that you should not exceed your tow vehicles gross vehicle weight by "about" 1.25x.

If your truck weight is about 5400lbs and is rated for pulling 5000lbs, I would not pull much more than 6500lbs and that 6500lbs would depend on if you had the trans coolers, gear ratios, etc mentioned above and very careful attention while driving.

This is not law, and don't simply take my word for it. This has served me well for years. Talk to the techs at Jeep. Join some Jeep forums and talk to other folks that own one and are pulling large, heavy things. These people have the best input since they have exp with your almost exact vehicle.

I practiced what I am preaching. For example, I have a '96 LT1 powered Caprice and joined the impalassforum (since the car is almost identical to the SS). I got GREAT info from that group of fine folks!

Incidently, I took a look at the Jeep website myself and it rates the 4.7L V8 at 6500lb towing capacity which is in line with what I outlined above. It also does not mention much besides a Class IV hitch when it comes to the "trailer package".

Your results may vary, and so on....

Regards,

Eric

Thanks Eric:
I knew that when help was needed "it would come" your statements are correct for my vehcile right down to the hitch. What I am concerned about is making the decision soon on the type of traveller trailer or MH. This is all geared to whether the GW will tow an AS of about 28ft. If not then a truck is needed or I go to a MH. I can not have both unfortunately I have responsibilities that are motivating these outcomes but thanks.

[overlander64]

Greetings Saxonsraven!

You don't mention what year your Grand Wagoneer is, and that can make quite a bit of difference. I towed my '64 Overlander with a 1984 Grand Wagoneer with the 360 V8, 3.73 diferrential gearing, and factory heavy duty trailering package. It was much better than my 1995 Chevrolet K1500 pickup with 3.73 differential gearing and 5.7 Liter V8. The Grand Wagoneer's big downfall was that it only had a cruising range of about 100 to 120 miles when towing the trailer, and only about 190 miles solo. With the larger, optional 401 V8, I wouldn't have hesitated to tow a larger Airstream with the Grand Wagoneer (pre 1990). If your Grand Wagoneer is the down-sized variety, I would be hesitant to tow anything beyond 24 feet.

Kevin

[Silvertwinkie]

Makes sense to me. Glad you are asking the questions rather than finding out as you pull away. Some places will sell anything without question.

I added a few comment to my orig post about the hitch. I would check the weight of the 28 footer you are looking at and see what you come up with. As a point of reference, the lowest weight 2003 Airstream at 28ft I believe is the Classic per the Airstream website. It rates it's "empty" weight at 6785lbs and it's "gross" full weight at 8600. The 28ft Safari is rated at about 6700lbs "empty" but has a loaded "gross" of 9100lbs. Either way, both seem a bit high for your truck.

I would say that (and this is just me talking) that the 25ft (A,B or C) Safari would be the max you would dare attempt with the Grand Wagoneer even with the best cooling and gear attached.

Others may disagree, but this is just my .02.

Eric

Thanks for the reply:
My GW is an 88 in pretty good condition, the usual maintainance problems as Gidder said IT ALWAYS SOME THING. It is all original 99k miles not a factory installed hitch after market.
If I can keep her then travel will deffenately be easier after you park up. Thanks again.

Eric thank you!
I was starting to think that but your comments really pulled me up. No more than 25ft it is. This is fine as I only have myself and my GSD saxon to travel with. I have seen the US here and there but as teacher and having time off I want to see and meet more of the America I found in the West. I think I will have to upgrade some of the systems of the GW to tow without any problems. A GW and an AS is going in style anyway you look at it.

Kevin thank you also:
When advice comes as rapid as this it is hard to keep up in real time. Your comments were very helpful thanks.

[overlander64]

Greetings Saxonsraven!

At least in 1984, my Grand Wagoneer was rated for up to 6,500 pounds of towed weight with a weight distributing hitch, heavy duty suspension, heavy duty cooling, and a heavy duty alternator. In addition, I added a 24,000 pound rated transmission fluid cooler. With the 360 V8, it handled my '64 Overlander (26 ft., 6,000 pounds loaded for a vacation). If my Grand Wagoneer would have had the 401 V8, its maximum trailer weight rating would have been increased by 1,000 pounds if my memory serves correct. When towing the Overlander, I never felt like there was too much trailer following me, and it handled all grades quite well including my personal test - - the grades approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70 from both the East and West. My biggest complaint with the Grand Wagoneer had nothing to do with its ruggedness or dependability, rather its short cruising range and lack of aftermarket larger fuel tank - - 21 gallons just was not enogh for the fuel thirsty beast.

Good luck with your decision!

Kevin

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally posted by overlander64
Greetings Saxonsraven!

its short cruising range and lack of aftermarket larger fuel tank - - 21 gallons just was not enogh for the fuel thirsty beast.

Good luck with your decision!

Kevin

Your very welcome saxonsraven!

Amen Kevin! I have a 23 gallon tank and really only about 21.5-22 useable gallons. I think my range pulling will be about 240 miles per tank (approx) compared to 460 not pulling. At $2 a gallon, it stings a bit, but not any more than $400 for room, board and airfare for 5 or 6 days! Plus, I can bring my pocket knife and gun without being attacked at the airport.


Regards,

Eric

[Chas]

Did they ever put a 401 in the big Wagoneers? I had an 85 model with the 360 or 390, can't remember exactly. It was a beautiful machine just had the misfortune of being made by American Motors. I pulled a 15' Playmor to a buddies wedding in Florida back in 1990. I do remember stopping for gas constantly, good thing is I never had to worry about falling asleep at the wheel. The Playmor was a single axle so towing without a good friction sway was definitely a white knuckle affair! It broke off in the middle of the night and we drove for what seemed forever till I found a welder to reattach it, somewhere in Alabama.

Chas

[overlander64]

Greetings Chas!

At least according to all of the literature that came with my 1984 Grand Wagoneer, the 401 V8 was available as an option. It may have been discontinued after 1985 as I never heard anything more about its availability after 1986. According to the sales literature and the owner's manual on my '84 Grand Wagoneer the available engines included 304 V8, 360 V8, 390 V8, and 401 V8 - - who knows, the 401 may never have actually been installed in any of the Grand Wagoneers - - I don't believe that I ever saw one.

Kevin

My GW has a 390 so I really am revising my expectations. I will stick to the smaller AS's so I can enjoy the ride. Either way I would keep the trailer and change the towing vehcle, you can get a truck but it seems the old Airstreams are going to start becoming scarce and I have a limited supply of money.

[Silvertwinkie]

Plus depending on how you buy the rig instead of the tow vehicle, you can write off some or most of the interest on the Airstream which you can't do on a car/truck. Of course paying cash, for either makes it a non-issue. But just thought I'd throw that into the mix.....

Regards,

Eric

[davidz71]

I remember off-road tests being done on a Wagoneer with a 401 so they were available but not sure which years. I had a '77 Jeep CJ7 with 304 and contemplated a switch to a 360 or 401 because they were built on the same block. I remember a number of 401 powered Jeep CJ5s and 7s that were awsome.

[Chas]

I was a young one but I do vaguely remember the CJ's with the 401. Was that crazy or what? In particular I remember this fine lookin' girl driving one around town who I guess was probably ten years my senior, what the heck, maybe one of my first fifty crushes or so? It was the Levi jean edition, had denim interior with the rivets and all, probably highly collectible today. Had side pipes on it. I guess they were pretty dangerous as well. Heard of quite a few rollovers and such.

Chas

[apple 1]

Jeep engines, I worked at AMC from 68 untl being bought by Chrysler in 87. Retired from Chrysler in 2001. Jeep CJ never had anything larger than 304 V8, however as the blocks were the same many dealers and customers were changing to 360 and 401 V8's. The Cherokee Chief and Grand Wagoneer got the 360 and 401 engine from 1970 until 1985. The last years only the 360 was avaliable. The last year of the 390 was 1969 and was replaced with the 401 in 1970. The 69 Wagoneer still used the Buick engine. To identify which AMC block you have look under the right hand engine mount and the displacement is cast into the block.

[wayne.yl]

Unfortunely I bought my 31ft A/S thinking my gwagoneer would have no problem pulling it. Wrong! I am now in the process of figuring out what to do. I can take short trips 100 miles or less without to much trouble but would not attempt to take the airstream to Colorado. Even though I've had the 360 rebuilt about 1year ago and 2 weeks ago the tranny was rebuillt, I still wouldn't take the trip. I've been told the rear end has the wrong gear ratio but I'm clueless. All I know is that I can not go beyond 60 mph and thats downhill. She runs a little warm also. Still don't want to part with my Jeep but don't know of other options.

Not leaving Indiana anytime soon

Wayne

[COArgosy78]

Hello all - Its funny that this post is here this week since I have been PMing Kevin about our purchase of an 86 GW (which took place last friday). Ours came with a 360 V8, and a heavy duty tow pkg., but we will be making some modifications to help tow our 22ft Argosy Minuet. Might I suggest another website dedicated to Full Size Jeeps. There is a local branch here in Colorado with some great guys really into modifying their Wagoneers for off road, meaning some heavy duty engines, transmissions, and undercarriage parts. I am NOT savvy about cars and no nothing about how to work on one, but these guys were very helpful about explaining. Anyway, the national site is:

www.ifsja.org.

Stands for International Full Size Jeep Organization. Hope that leads you down an interesting path. Leigh

PS We also noticed our brake lights are out. Not the bulbs so went for fuses. Haven't found where fuse box is. Anyone??

[COArgosy78]

Ok - our 86 was diagnosed with a possible need for emission replacement - CAT converter, muffler and tailpipe. We did some homework and for what we want to use the GW for (mostly towing the Argosy and some offroad jeeping, here is the recommendation: Go for a high performance muffler (recommend a Magnaflow muffler) and aluminum 3" tailpipe w/o removal of Y-pipe when replacing. The high performance muffler and bigger tailpipe is suppose to help with towing and also any offroad we do.

I'm checking on the differential gearing. Ours came with 3:31 and we were told that is what we need for towing. Came w/heavy duty tow pkg., so someone used it that way, but Kevin mentioned his came w/3:90 and he also towed all the way here to Eisenhower tunnel w/no prob. I don't understand enough about this, so again, doing homework. Any knowledge on this is appreciated. Anything else we learn, we will pass on. Leigh