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markdoane · 08-16-2004, 09:21 AM

I'm sure someone has done a shell-off restoration, bought all the riveting tools, and now they're collecting dust.
I'm looking for a rivet gun (2X? 3X?), bucking bars, clecos and stuff like that that someone wants sell.
Otherwise, I plan to buy a set, and then make it available (for sale) to the next person who needs it.
I don't see this as a tool crib/loaner program, that would be too confusing. I think just outright purchase, then sell it off to the next victim for some percentage of the original cost.
I've checked eBay. Lot's of 'well used' stuff. Nothing I would have.

Also, for those who are familiar with the world of rivets, rivet gun size and brand name recommendations are welcome.

Inland RV Center, In · 08-16-2004, 11:05 AM

Don.

Harbor Freight is a good place to buy new tools, cheap.

Almost to the degree of using them, throwing them away, and still be bucks ahead.

Andy

uwe · 08-16-2004, 11:26 AM

Don,
I have owned and used a Craftsman Pneumatic rivet gun for a few years now.
It sets Olympics and blind rivets. It was less than $ 100.00
Harbor Freight has a pneumatic hammer that is reasonable, and accepts the buck rivet "chisel".

markdoane · 08-16-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Don.

Harbor Freight is a good place to buy new tools, cheap.

Almost to the degree of using them, throwing them away, and still be bucks ahead.

Andy

Andy,
Thanks. I just discovered there is a Harbor Freight in Minneapolis. I bought a pneu/hydraulic blind riveter there on Saturday. $33.00. Works like a champ!
I saw the same thing on eBay for $47.

What I'm looking for to do the next step is a regular rivet gun, for solid rivets, with good throttle control. I have an impact hammer, but I think it would get away from me and hammer through the skins before I got the first rivet in place.

malconium · 08-16-2004, 02:13 PM

This weekend I re-installed a panel that I had taken off. It is one of the curved panels that can not be replaced with flat stock. Since I am planning eventually to paint my unit what I did was to remove the panel and pound out the dented and torn area enough that I can use a relatively small amount of bondo to fill the area prior to painting. At any rate I was able to re-install the panel just fine with a hand operated pop-rivit tool. Actually I found it useful to be able to partially set some of the rivits while I fine tuned the position of the panel. I also used a few pan head screws like Andy suggested to help align the panel. In this case I did not have to drill all new holes since the panel already had holes in the correct locations. I think I must have installed around 100 rivits alltogether. Probably the most anoying aspect of the install was that some of the olympic rivits popped their shafts off down inside of the rivit body rather than with the shaft sticking out some. I just drilled them out and reset them with a new rivit.

I nipped off most of the rivit shafts with a bolt cutter and now just have to shave them down flush. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to do that cleanly enough without hving to buy an expensive rivit shaver just for this job? Or does anyone know of a source of a relatively cheap rivit shaver? I tried grinding a couple down with my Dremel tool which worked but the results are not quite as even as I would like.

By the way since I have the inner skins off I patched the back side of the tear in the panel with Elasto Seal and seam tape. I could have done it while the panel was off too of course but it was easier to hold on to once it was back in place. The tear was basically closed up once I had pounded the panel back into reasonable shape. I just wanted to have a water proof seal until I am ready to bondo the area from the outside. It seems to have worked. If there had been a larger gap left I probably would have used a fiberglass patch kit instead.

Malcolm

malconium · 08-16-2004, 02:21 PM

Don,

I have wondered about using an air chisel as a rivit gun.

Does anyone know if an air chisel can be used as a rivit gun as long as the tip is right? I have one that came with an assortment of air tools that I bought for less than $100 that I have not even used yet. I did notice that it has several different types of interchangeable tips. What type of tip does a solid rivit gun have anyway? Would the level of control be different for a rivit gun than for an air chisel?

Thanks,

Malcolm

Inland RV Center, In · 08-16-2004, 02:26 PM

Malcomb.

The olympic rivet when pulled, will split into thirds.

When one on those "thirds" hits a stiffner, a main bow or a horizontal stringer, the pin will break below the rivet head, since that obstruction will not allow the rivet to properly compress.

The fix?

Drill out the bad rivet. Cut one third of the rivet shank away. Place that side of the rivet next to the hidden obstruction, and set it.

You will now have a rivet that was set correctly.

The cause?

Sometimes the rivet holes are very close to a main bow, etc. Not a problem if you buck rivet. But when you use the olympic rivets, then that's another story, some times.

Caution. Do not keep the rivet that had it's pin break off short, as it has not properly compressed to hold the metal together.

Using an "air chisel is Ok, provided that you cut the air pressure "down." If you don't the air chisel will beat the metal to death.
Andy

BobbyW · 08-16-2004, 02:29 PM

Got this riveter off of eBay a couple of weeks ago. Works well and had English instructions on how to maintain it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=4314460261

thenewkid64 · 08-16-2004, 02:45 PM

Malcolm, Andy hit the rivet on the head.

I have also had luck with paying attention to the position of the rivet as it pertains to the others in the row and guessing where the obstruction is. I make sure that I have a slot between the legs pointed in the direction I think the obstruction may be. This works for me 90% of the time. The other 10% I have to cut a leg.

Sav'h Steve · 08-16-2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdoane

Andy,
Thanks. I just discovered there is a Harbor Freight in Minneapolis. I bought a pneu/hydraulic blind riveter there on Saturday. $33.00. Works like a champ!
I saw the same thing on eBay for $47.

What I'm looking for to do the next step is a regular rivet gun, for solid rivets, with good throttle control. I have an impact hammer, but I think it would get away from me and hammer through the skins before I got the first rivet in place.

Don,
I looked on Harbor Freight website and didn't find it. Can you give a description or number?

Thanks,
Steve

malconium · 08-16-2004, 03:25 PM

Steve,

I think this is what Don found at Harbor Frieght. There appears to be a sale for even less than he paid at the moment ($24.99).

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...itemnumber=167

Malcolm

malconium · 08-16-2004, 03:29 PM

Andy,

What does the tip look like for solid rivits? Am I picturing a dimple that matches the rounded head of the rivits? Do you sell the appropriate solid rivits?

Thanks,

Malcolm

greg176 · 08-16-2004, 03:50 PM

Here is a photo of the rivet gun and bucking bar I am using.It is a 4x (a 3x would do) from aircraft tool supply.

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...t.asp?PageNo=2

It has a very nice trigger which gives a lot of control.I would not use an air hammer to buck rivets.I looked at my two air hammers and their triggers are more or less on/off no control.I installed a valve on air inlet to throttle down pressure a little.You will also need a rivet snap for the 5/32 rivets.

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...t.asp?PageNo=3

And a bucking bar

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...t.asp?PageNo=1

markdoane · 08-16-2004, 04:08 PM

Greg,
Thanks for the info. I was thinking about http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...t.asp?PageNo=1, but I can find the same model # $10 cheaper somewhere else. Do you think the 'economy' model is good enough?

markdoane · 08-16-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malconium

Don,

I have wondered about using an air chisel as a rivit gun.

Does anyone know if an air chisel can be used as a rivit gun as long as the tip is right? I have one that came with an assortment of air tools that I bought for less than $100 that I have not even used yet. I did notice that it has several different types of interchangeable tips. What type of tip does a solid rivit gun have anyway? Would the level of control be different for a rivit gun than for an air chisel?

Thanks,

Malcolm

Malcolm,
My understanding (and from what greg says) is that an air chisel, even if you regulate it perfectly, will work harden the rivets before they are fully set.
Bucked rivets are made from hardened (I think 2117) aluminum T3, and as they are set they work harden to T4.

greg176 · 08-16-2004, 04:56 PM

The cheaper gun looks all right but I do like my x-series gun.

markdoane · 08-16-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg176

The cheaper gun looks all right but I do like my x-series gun.

Yeah, I can see why. The economy model runs pretty fast with a small piston. Kinda looks like a 2 1/2 X model.

Can I ask what kind of rivets you used? I understand you went with 5/32", do they look different next to the 1/8"? Are they Universal head or Modified Brazier?

greg176 · 08-16-2004, 05:30 PM

I am using 5/32" universal rivets.The rivet head is exactly the same size and shape as the original rivets.I went with the 5/32 because the 1/8 head was too small and it's a good idea to open up holes to next size to get a clean hole to prevent leaks.I also have a rivet trimmer and I am cutting -6 rivets as required for different depth holes.

markdoane · 08-16-2004, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg176

I am using 5/32" universal rivets.

Greg,
I gotta throw this out there. Something has been bothering me since I started this project.
1. The head diameter of the rivets on my '59 Tradewind are about .310"
2. The stem diameter is about 0.140", which I assume is a size 4 rivet which has expanded while being set. It sure wasn't 5/32".

From looking at a table of dimensions, the head diameter on a 1/8" size 4 Universal rivet is 0.240" to 0.260", much smaller the head diameter on the existing trailer (as you pointed out).
A Brazier head rivet has a head diameter of about .310"

My question is: Did Airstream use Brazier head rivets originally? That would explain the large head on the smaller stem. It also makes it very convenient to drill them out to 5/32" and use a Universal head rivet, which will have the same head diameter as the 1/8" Brazier rivet.