Airstream Forums

Airstream Forums (https://www.airforums.com/forums/)
-   Upholstery, Blinds, Walls & Interior Finishes (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f39/)
-   -   Interior Aluminum Replacement (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f39/interior-aluminum-replacement-9263.html)

swebster 02-06-2004 05:45 PM

Interior Aluminum
 
OK...so stripping the vinyl from the interior is not going so well. I've ordered samples from both a specialty vinyl stripper company and Napier as a last resort but at the current pace of removal it will take approximately FOREVER to get this blasted vinyl off.

At this point I’ve begun to realistically consider re-skinning the interior rather than continuing with my stripping project. I have some experience with riveted aluminum (buck riveted not pop) in aircraft interiors so the job is not too intimidating but the prices for .32 2024 Alclad were!

It would be roughly $5,000 to skin the inside of the 345. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!

All of a sudden I like that vinyl again.

I also found 3003H-14 SOFT ALUMINUM SHEET from Aircraft Spruce for $66.00 for a 4' x 12' sheet which would be much cheaper and I think easier to handle and install.

Anyone have advice on this type of aluminum. It’s only to be used as interior skin replacing the Vinyl Clad interior aluminum.

Since we’re trying to mimic the CCD/Interstate interior skins in the 345 we want something that has a good shine but does not need to be a mirror finish (something like Home Depot flashing would work).

I just don't know if the interior skins works as the inside of coach’s sandwich or shell; stiffening the ribs and exterior skin, thus requiring 2024.

Sneakinup 02-06-2004 05:56 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I added some flashing from Lowes to the backsplash of my trailer. Looks just like the CCD aluminum. Easy to work. I cut out the outlet hole with a razor knife.

20" x 10' long for around $7.

markdoane 02-06-2004 06:35 PM

Aluminum
 
Prices for 2024-T3, .032" is about $3.20 per sq. ft. Running your $5000. price backwards, do you really need 1500 sq ft to do the interior? That bigger than my house!. Keep checking prices (see 59Toaster above)

On the other hand, I think 3003 would probably work ok for your interior. It has slightly lower copper content than 2024 so I will be a little softer. I don't know if anyone has done the actual calculation to tell if it would compromise the intergrity of your coach. It would be neat if someone did. 3003 has 1/3rd the tensile strength of 2024

I might double up the number of pop-rivets if you want to have a little safety factor.

swebster 02-06-2004 07:07 PM

My Math
 
How in the world did I end up with 1500 sq ft? Thanks for the reality check. Now that we've established that my (post adult beverage) math skills need some work please check the following for sanity:

Estimating 30' in skinned interior length (leaving off 4-5 feet for the nose, dash, and front and rear interior caps and window surrounds).

Roughly 16' in width so four 48" coils would do it.

So that is 4 (4'x30' coils) or 120 linear feet.

At 12.80 per foot for 2024 it would be $1536.

Phew - how I got to $5,000 I'll never know! Oh, wait I see. I must have multiplied the linear requirements by the type of aluminum and then divided by the number of rivets!

Good thing I posted this before I broke that one to the wife! She already thinks I'm a dork and this one would not have helped matters.

So for the same square footage in 3003 it would require about 9 4'x12' sheets. At $66 each we're looking at $594

So if I get this right it's 1/3 the tensile strength and 1/3 the price. Coincedence - I think not!


Sneakinup - thats the look we want but a little thicker gauge and over about 1500 sq...er...480 sq ft. In fact I bought one of those coils at Home Depot and taped it onto the wall. That was all it took to mark the goal and begin the stripping process. And BTW - I checked out your pictures and your cabinetry work has set the bar for the rest of us - Nice Job!

Creampuff 02-06-2004 07:20 PM

S.W.
Have you thought about salvaging the vinyl clad and flipping it over? not sure but I think it's only clad on the topside.

87MH 02-06-2004 07:25 PM

Just a thought....
 
Instead of stripping and replacing the existing interior skin, why not just scab the new, cheaper, weaker, better looking than vinyl Al on top of the existing interior skin?

Not expensive, looks good, goes up fast, lasts a long time.

markdoane 02-06-2004 07:56 PM

Re: Just a thought....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by 87MH
Instead of stripping and replacing the existing interior skin, why not just scab the new, cheaper, weaker, better looking than vinyl Al on top of the existing interior skin?
Now THAT'S a great idea! Have a big dish of karma.

swebster 02-07-2004 06:31 AM

Quote:

why not just scab the new, cheaper, weaker, better looking than vinyl Al on top of the existing interior skin?
what do i do about the old rivet heads?[

74Argosy24MH 02-07-2004 07:50 AM

Quote:

what do i do about the old rivet heads?
Drill 99% of them out. When I replaced my skin and was fitting the sheets I used 2 or 3 rivets per rib to hold them in. The lower panels are no problem, the curve puts a lot of stifnesss in the upper panels. When you rivet the new ones you rivet the old ones.

Flipping won't work, the holes will be in the wrong place, and there are a bunch of holes. That is one thing to think about before reskinning. I spent a lot of time laying out windows, electric, plumbing vents, etc. It is a big job. Get a good group of helpers, it is easy to kink a sheet that long when you are trying to lift and align it overhead.

John

markdoane 02-07-2004 07:52 AM

Rivey heads
 
It will probably take a little more work to scab new sheets over the old.

I would strategically place a few counter-sunk, flat head sheet metal screws around each old sheet to hold it in place, then drill the heads off of the rivets. Use an undersized drill bit so that the head pops off but most of the stem stays in. Stagger the new sheets over the old ones so that the joints are offset. Use a surfacing compound to fill the lap joints of the old sheets. Can you use thinner sheets for the new stuff?

87MH 02-07-2004 08:16 AM

"What do i do about the old rivet heads?"
 
Steven:

These are just suggestions (Southern Engineering?;) )

Obviously, the best and most professional method for a "new interior a la CCD" would be a total interior gut and new quality Al sheeting installed.

These are my thoughts for a "quick and dirty".

First, I think I would try simply installing the new sheeting directly over the old, and installing the new rivets mid-way between the old rivets. Edge areas of the Al overlay could be held in place by trim. In this manner, the old rivet heads may not even show through.

As a further insurance to minimize the old riveting from telegraphing their presence to the new, you could install doubler plates on either side of the old rivets, glueing them in place prior to scabbing the new Al over everything.

Then again, instead of rivets, you could glue the new Al material over the old, using a double bead over the old (original) rivet heads. This would leave a smooth surface, unblemished by any rivets at all.

In truth, there is such a small a panel area exposed on the sides of the MH's, all the new Al installed over the old could truely be considered as little more than "trim". Of course, on trailers, there would be considerably more wall area to contend with.

On the 345, I covered thin Masonite with a good quality linen (Drapery material), and screwed the covered masonite to the walls. The screws are pretty well buried within the linen, and hidden by the edge trim. The fabric helps with the insulation and sound deadening.

I haven't made a decision on the header, yet. Later MH's have a factory installed fabric header (covered panels screwed the the roof).

If you are going to remove the cabinets anyway, the problem of hiding edges will be moot, as the reinstallation of the cabinets could will cover the edge of the new panels.

swebster 02-07-2004 03:56 PM

Good ideas!
 
Thanks for the ideas. I can certainly try out a few as the worst case is still to replace the skin completely. I'm working down the coach in sections and removing all the furniture/cabinetry as I go so access and trimming is not an issue.

I spent about an hour looking at the walls & ceiling of the AS today (my kids thought I was crazy) and realized that the headliner and center panel are the only visable continuous stretches of AL. I like the idea of "prepping" the old AL with a reduction in rivets or countersunk screws making them ready to receive a new “veneer”

The goal is only to achieve that AL look in the CCD/Interstate, not to repair or replace the panels. These approaches would also allow me to use a much thinner aluminum thus minimizing cost and weight.

I have been working the passenger side where the barrel chairs and TV were as my “test area”. I’ll try some of these ideas in that space a post some pics. I would like to try and find a winder sheet than what's available at Home Depot. Perhaps a gutter company might have what I"m looking for? I think if I could get something at least 36" wide it would work.

Also – thanks for splitting this into a separate thread since it become its own topic now.

muddy_hollow 02-07-2004 05:05 PM

Stipping Vinyl
 
I just bought a 71 Safari which has vinyl clad interior and I was considering stripping it, but after reading this post I may not. I had thought I could strip the vinyl and polish the interior. Here's a couple assumptions, maybe you could set me straight.

1\ A good quality paint stripper will remove the vinyl

2\ In case the paint stripper did not work, I was going to investigate furniture strippers to get each panel 'dipped' to remove the vinyl.

3\ The plastic batten I would replace with a thin aluminum bar or leave the rivets exposed.

Doug

swebster 02-07-2004 08:31 PM

Welcome
 
Doug,
Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new (to you) AS. I've just started this process and have been experimenting with different adhesive, paint and flooring strippers. I've ordered a sample of vinyl stripper (used by sign companies and vehicle lettering companies) and am hopeful. I've also heard that Napier 510 works well also.

You can read a little more about this on another post here: Too Late to Turn Back Now

One thing is for sure. The vinyl is so old on these walls and so far so hard to get off that the "veneer" approach being discussed here is becoming very attractive.

Getting them “dipped” sounds pretty interesting. I would worry a bit about this approach as I think it would be hard to remove them, get them dipped and re-install them without getting them bent, kinked or damaged in the process.

What do you mean by "batten"?

BTW - I grew up I Billerica, MA.

ALANSD 02-09-2004 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sneakinup
I added some flashing from Lowes to the backsplash of my trailer. Looks just like the CCD aluminum. Easy to work. I cut out the outlet hole with a razor knife.

20" x 10' long for around $7.

looks really cool to me. I would like to do that around the stove area. Good suggestion.

Janets Husband 02-09-2004 12:39 PM

Rivets
 
As I understand it, you will be putting new AL sheet over the top of the old AL sheets?
If this is truely what you have planned I would remove all of the old rivets. It would lay flatter if they were all removed.
I would also think about some sort of sealer between the two to cut down on rattels and vibration.

You can hold the old and the new sheet goods together by the use of "Cleko fasteners" They are used in the aircraft industry to hold sheet metal together until it can be riveted. A real time saver.
Search the web for "Cleko" and Bob's your Uncle.

markdoane 02-09-2004 12:49 PM

Cleco/Cleko
 
You get more results with 'Cleco' and 'Bob's yer uncle'

Janets Husband 02-09-2004 02:16 PM

Whoops
 
Yer right "Cleco" and "Gary can't spell"

ALANSD 03-08-2004 08:43 AM

bought a roll of the flashing at HD, and found some precut rectangles for 30 cents a piece there also. I cut one to use as the trim piece around my wall digital clock, where it had vinyl woodgrain applique. Way cool update for 30 cents!

Then I cut some of the bigger stuff and riveted it on my entry door inside bottom, where the screen door has marked and rubbed it for years. Looks so much better now when the door is left open.
Nice little fix for this area.

silver suz 03-14-2004 12:48 PM

interior skin of alum.
 
One the yahoo site for cork tile and floating floors are lare rolls of cork used for acustical and thermal insulation. It would be easy to roll this stuff outtack it and then cover it with the interior aluminum. there was also an advertisement for cork wall and ceiling tiles- another way to cover yucky vinyl. That's what I was thinking of doing. silver suz


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.