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-   -   Colorado Title? (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f352/colorado-title-73445.html)

lucymcdog 01-24-2011 04:55 PM

Colorado Title?
 
I just tried to get a license plate for my 1960 18' Traveler at the court house in Saguache, Colorado. They said they couldn't give me a title and/or plates because all I have is a bill of sale. I was told I had to get a bond which involves taking the trailer to the sheriff's office to verify the VIN number, taking it to an RV dealer (45 miles away and over a pass) to get it appraised then sending in $$ and 10 pages of paperwork to Denver to get "bonded".

Has anybody else had this experience or is there a loophole that the folks here in Saguache don't know about?

Would appreciate any help.

Lindy

handn 01-24-2011 05:07 PM

I don't think that the Saguache County Clerk is incorrectly interpreting Colorado law.
The bond cost would likely be fairly nominal. The paperwork is of course a hassle.
Your other choice would be to register the trailer in another state that allows registration with only a bill of sale.

InsideOut 01-24-2011 05:13 PM

Sounds about right...it's always less hassle to buy a trailer with a title. That's also why non-titled trailers are oftentimes less expensive.

Sorry, it's a PITA!

Shari :flowers:

Zeppelinium 01-24-2011 05:39 PM

BEDFORDS had to do this for the Ambassador I gave him. I think the bond was about $110. You might PM him if you have questions.

Zep

samb 01-24-2011 06:11 PM

Yes, I agree, it is a PITA.

But do you know what is an even bigger PITA ?????
To find that someone has legal title to the trailer that was stolen from you
because the thief gave the buyer a bill of sale.
I do not want any more "loopholes" to this process.
I insist on a clear title and have waited with cash in hand until the seller could produce one.
Sam

TG Twinkie 01-24-2011 06:32 PM

HI Lindy;
Did you buy the trailer in Colorado?
I am assuming that the PO didn't have a title.
Does your Bill of Sale have the VIN number on it.

I don't know about Colorado since I haven't lived there in 14+ years, but here in Nebraska the Sheriff (we only have 1) will come out and inspect the trailer at our house. Like you we live in a very large county with only one town, the County Seat. They charge a $10.00 fee for the inspection.

If you bought the tralier in another state, you may be able to obtain a duplicate title from that states DMV.

You may run into other problems with a purchase out of state. Trailers like stock trailers, horse trailers, utility trailers don't have a Nebraska Title. Just a registration.

If you have a little Larceny in your blood

Since in Colorado, all trailers just have a trailer plate. There is no difference between a travel trailer and a horse trailer or any other for that matter. You could buy some piece of junk trailer that has a title, register it and put the plate on the AS. Pssst!!! Don't tell anyone I told you that. LOL

You might check into what it takes to get a "Builders Title". Don't know if that would work. How well do you know the sheriff?

You may be able to get an estimated value over the internet from a source. But all the county is going to do is charge you more for the plates based on the estimated value.

lucymcdog 01-24-2011 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie (Post 942308)
HI Lindy;
Did you buy the trailer in Colorado?
I am assuming that the PO didn't have a title.
Does your Bill of Sale have the VIN number on it.

I don't know about Colorado since I haven't lived there in 14+ years, but here in Nebraska the Sheriff (we only have 1) will come out and inspect the trailer at our house. Like you we live in a very large county with only one town, the County Seat. They charge a $10.00 fee for the inspection.

If you bought the tralier in another state, you may be able to obtain a duplicate title from that states DMV.

You may run into other problems with a purchase out of state. Trailers like stock trailers, horse trailers, utility trailers don't have a Nebraska Title. Just a registration.

If you have a little Larceny in your blood

Since in Colorado, all trailers just have a trailer plate. There is no difference between a travel trailer and a horse trailer or any other for that matter. You could buy some piece of junk trailer that has a title, register it and put the plate on the AS. Pssst!!! Don't tell anyone I told you that. LOL

You might check into what it takes to get a "Builders Title". Don't know if that would work. How well do you know the sheriff?

You may be able to get an estimated value over the internet from a source. But all the county is going to do is charge you more for the plates based on the estimated value.

I actually bought the trailer in Oregon but nobody needs to know that (now that I've broadcast it to the entire forum!). The plate on it was Oregon and last registered in 1994. There are plenty of junk trailers around - maybe your idea would work.

I'm the municipal judge in town and work closely with Sheriff Mike. Would he be the one to give me whatever it takes to get a builders title?

Maybe I could go the salvage title route? The trailer wasn't in good shape when I bought it but now that we've almost finished restoring it the value, I'm assuming, has gone way up.

samb 01-24-2011 09:37 PM

I live in Oregon. Could that be the '60 Traveler that was stolen from me?


Unless you jump through the hoops you will never know. OK .... It was not mine, but since you have a license plate it is not hard at all to find the last registered owner in Oregon. Contact Oregon DMV, get a form and the last registered owner's address, send it to them, if it was not stolen you get a signature, DMV will issue a title that can be transfered to you. I have done this and it will only take some time and a title fee, but you can then be sure that you are not in possession of stolen property.

Fix up the trailer and at any time later find it was stolen, and then you give it back to the original owner. And no, you do not get back the purchace price or the money for any improvements you might have made.

How much is some peace of mind worth???????

And how easy do you want it to be for the thief that stole your trailer to be able to get a clear title to it???? Wouldn't you rather get your trailer back?

I am not trying to be your conscience, just stating my opinion.
Sam

Denis4x4 01-24-2011 11:24 PM

I have a bonded title on a hot rod I built. Simple procedure and not that many hoops to jump through . First off, get an appraisal (lower the better) from a licesened dealer. Then have a CHP officer verify the VIN ($25). Take the appraisal to an insurance agent (I used State Farm) and buy a bond. Take the appraisal, bond, bill of sale and a VIN inspection to the DMV. The penalty for using a trailer plate that is not correct can b very expensive. Ask me how I know!

TG Twinkie 01-24-2011 11:34 PM

If you know the trailer had '94 plates in Oregon, I would think you could get a duplicate title or at least determine if it was registered by the same person or relative there of, that you bought the trailer from. Does your trailer still have the manufacturers plate with the VIN number on it?

Smartstream 01-25-2011 12:50 AM

I don't know about Colorado but in Washington if you have been in possession of the vehicle for 90 days you can apply for a title. Even if the vehicle was abandoned on your property you can get a title. You make an application and get a conditional title for four years. If no claims are made in that time it changes to a normal title.

In our rural area people tend to dump their junk cars in the middle of the night. Without a title a wreaking yard cannot take the car so this procedure allows you to get rid of the vehicle in 90 days.

Also I have several antique vehicles and I lost the title on one of them. I have owned it for 30 years and the last registration was in the 80's from Calif. in my name. Calif. doesn't keep records back that far so this is the procedure I have to go through to get a new title.

Again I don't know Colorado but there may be more than one way to get a title.

Cheers, Dan

47WeeWind 01-25-2011 12:59 AM

It not all that bad . . .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lucymcdog (Post 942248)
I just tried to get a license plate for my 1960 18' Traveler at the court house in Saguache, Colorado. They said they couldn't give me a title and/or plates because all I have is a bill of sale. I was told I had to get a bond which involves taking the trailer to the sheriff's office to verify the VIN number, taking it to an RV dealer (45 miles away and over a pass) to get it appraised then sending in $$ and 10 pages of paperwork to Denver to get "bonded". Has anybody else had this experience or is there a loophole that the folks here in Saguache don't know about? Would appreciate any help. Lindy

Hi Lindy:

Your 1960 Traveler is a "vehicle" as defined at C.R.S. Sec. 42-6-102(23) then (10): "including trailers . . . and trailer coaches . . ." Look at C.R.S. Sec. 42-6-115 for bonded titles and especially subsection (3)(b), which provides:

(b) If the vehicle for which the certificate is filed is twenty-five years old or older, the applicant has had a certified vehicle identification number inspection performed on the vehicle, and the applicant presents a notarized bill of sale within twenty-four months after such sale with the title application, then the applicant shall not be required to furnish surety pursuant to this subsection (3). To be excepted from the surety requirement, an applicant shall submit an affidavit to the department that is sworn to under penalty of perjury that states that the required documents submitted are true and correct.

Because your trailer is from out of state, you will have to have its VIN verified in any event (even if it had an Oregon title). Maybe Sheriff Mike can do the VIN verification for you. Then, if you can get your Oregon bill of sale notarized in Oregon by the seller (or get a new notarized bill of sale from the Oregon seller) you won't have to post a bond or get an appraisal from a RV dealer (which is used only to determine the amount of the bond if required) because your trailer is more than 25 years old.

Yes, submit to the hassle and paperwork necessary to get your 1960 Traveler titled because she is worth it. And an official "rebirth" certificate is a great thing to have! It's really not all that bad and takes perhaps a month or so once the paperwork is mailed to the DMV title section in Denver. So just do it, your Traveler will thank you. :wally: Good luck!

TG Twinkie 01-25-2011 08:29 AM

The things you learn here on the forum. WOW!

lucymcdog 01-25-2011 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie (Post 942595)
The things you learn here on the forum. WOW!

Wow! is right!

Let it be known that I *WILL* do it legally - I just thought maybe our County Clerk wasn't "up" on all the rules and regs. Point well taken that I DO want to have a legal title for all the reasons given.

Thanks for all the input. It was certainly enlightening! :)

Lindy

lucymcdog 01-25-2011 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind (Post 942557)
Hi Lindy:

Because your trailer is from out of state, you will have to have its VIN verified in any event (even if it had an Oregon title). Maybe Sheriff Mike can do the VIN verification for you. Then, if you can get your Oregon bill of sale notarized in Oregon by the seller (or get a new notarized bill of sale from the Oregon seller) you won't have to post a bond or get an appraisal from a RV dealer (which is used only to determine the amount of the bond if required) because your trailer is more than 25 years old.


If I am able to get a notarized bill of sale, will I still have to do an Oregon title search because it had Oregon plates? I'd like to not have to post a bond or get an appraisal.

Another possibility to get around the Oregon "problem": If I "sell" the trailer to my husband (who has a different last name) and gave HIM a notarized bill of sale (which would be much easier to do than trying to get an Oregon one), then could HE apply for a colorado plate without a bond or appraisal? I'm sure Sheriff Mike will verify the VIN for me.

lucymcdog 01-25-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie (Post 942524)
Does your trailer still have the manufacturers plate with the VIN number on it?

Where would it be? The only long number I could find was on the tongue of the trailer. When I sent that # to Airstream for more info on the trailer, they said that wasn't an AS VIN number.

There is a little plate by the door with the serial number: 18DS-0286, CA 160

Zeppelinium 01-25-2011 10:25 AM

Ms. McDog,

That is the VIN. It stands for 18ft, double, built in Santa Fe Springs, serial 0286. Later on, like in 1969, they added the last digit of the year in between the D and S, and they put a model identifier up front, as in I=International, E=Exella, and L=Land Yacht. You'll find a lot of titles are wrong because the stamp wasn't clear and there is confusion on the letter "I" and the numeral "1", also "S" and "5" were confused.

Zep

47WeeWind 01-25-2011 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucymcdog (Post 942622)
If I am able to get a notarized bill of sale, will I still have to do an Oregon title search because it had Oregon plates? I'd like to not have to post a bond or get an appraisal.

You should not have to do an Oregon title search unless you are trying to obtain an Oregon title in lieu of an Oregon notarized bill of sale. That's a wholly different route, so I would not worry about that unless you decide to go in that different direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucymcdog (Post 942622)
Another possibility to get around the Oregon "problem": If I "sell" the trailer to my husband (who has a different last name) and gave HIM a notarized bill of sale (which would be much easier to do than trying to get an Oregon one), then could HE apply for a colorado plate without a bond or appraisal? I'm sure Sheriff Mike will verify the VIN for me.

The law is not always easy and I have no opinion on your idea. You might first want to review the DMV forms necessary to accompany a non-bond "bonded" title application and see what they require in the way of an explanation of facts that are sworn to in an affidavit made under penalty of perjury. Perhaps a straight-forward recital of the facts would suffice; perhaps not. The bond -- which is not required here because of vehicle age -- indemnifies only the DMV (not the buyer; its not for the buyer's benefit) if someone sues them for having issued a certificate of title for a stolen vehicle. Here, because of age and presumed low value, the state is not requiring the buyer to bond it before it issues a title certificate based on his or her word. Again, doing the right thing may not always be easy, but its still the right thing. Getting the VIN verified by Sheriff Mike is a separate and simple matter that has to be done in any event, so it is not a decisive factor.

47WeeWind 01-25-2011 10:34 AM

We have a vinner . . .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lucymcdog (Post 942636)
. . There is a little plate by the door with the serial number: 18DS-0286, CA 160

Yes, the first 8 numerals and digits (with dash) is your VIN, so have Mike verify "18DS-0286" as the VIN during his inspection.

The "CA 160" should be on a separate line (or distinctly separated) and is not part of your VIN. It indicates your trailer was built in California (CA) during January 1960 (160).

lucymcdog 01-25-2011 05:10 PM

Fyi
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind (Post 942652)

The law is not always easy and I have no opinion on your idea. You might first want to review the DMV forms necessary to accompany a non-bond "bonded" title application and see what they require in the way of an explanation of facts that are sworn to in an affidavit made under penalty of perjury. Perhaps a straight-forward recital of the facts would suffice; perhaps not. The bond -- which is not required here because of vehicle age -- indemnifies only the DMV (not the buyer; its not for the buyer's benefit) if someone sues them for having issued a certificate of title for a stolen vehicle. Here, because of age and presumed low value, the state is not requiring the buyer to bond it before it issues a title certificate based on his or her word. Again, doing the right thing may not always be easy, but its still the right thing. Getting the VIN verified by Sheriff Mike is a separate and simple matter that has to be done in any event, so it is not a decisive factor.

The seller will get me a notarized bill of sale in the mail tomorrow! I can now sleep soundly knowing that I'm doing this the right way. :angel:

Sheriff Mike will send somebody out next week to verify the VIN.

Stay tuned...

And THANKS for all the help! This forum absolutely WONDERFUL! :bb:

Lindy


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