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-   -   Honda generators and parallax converter (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f448/honda-generators-and-parallax-converter-67480.html)

pip8688 07-28-2010 05:18 PM

Honda generators and parallax converter
 
On my new rig, I noticed that I have no 110V power from shore power. I also tried with 2 honda 2k and still no power. With inverter, everything works fine. Everything worked fine when we picked it up. So, I opened everything up and found that I have a short on the 110v. somehow the transfer switch on the parallax converter got burnt. Now, I don't know if the switch caused the short or the other way, but this being a new AS, I dropped it off at the local AS dealer to get it fixed under warranty. To my surprise the service tech had mentioned that sometimes the honda generators have a conflict with parallax converters due to the fact that honda generators have different wave lengths. He said that he read it in several places on the internet. Now, this guy seems pretty knowledgable and is very professional, and since my rig is just beginning its life(2011), everything is under warrantee for 2 years, so he has no financial gain by telling me that. Have any of you ever heard something like that?

Tom

2airishuman 07-28-2010 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip8688 (Post 876874)
...honda generators have different wave lengths...

wave lengths?

does this mean cycles per second (hz) or waveFORM (as in sinusoidal waves) ?

and "different from what" ??

the eu/inverter line of gensets are DIALED into 60 hz...

you can quickly check this with a variety of gadgets.

i use one that displays hz and voltage.

it's possible a generator could be poorly adjusted

or NOT be tuned to 60 hz, but this is not likely.
_______

the inverter gensets are also known for extremely CLEAN juice (perfect sine wave)

in fact their material claims it equal to or BETTER than juice from the grid.

SEE da pretty wAVes midway down the page...
_______

does your stream have 2 30amp inlets (the so called gen prep package)??

if so THAT transfer switch can and does fail occasionally.
_______

when USING the gensets it is best to NOT be plugged in to shore power

or plug in the gennys while STILL on shore juice ...

and don't try plugging one genset into EACH 30 amp inlet on the stream.

it's also a good idea to NOT turn on any high draw stuff till AFTER plugging in...

and that applies to shore OR generator usage.

cheers
2air'

pip8688 07-29-2010 10:34 AM

2air,

He didn't say whether it was the wave form or length. He just said that due to either on that there is, sometimes, a conflict with parallax. Mine does have 2 plugs. What I don't understand is if the transfer switch fails not no power is plugged in, why is 110v still shorted?

2airishuman 07-29-2010 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip8688 (Post 877143)
Mine does have 2 plugs.

What I don't understand is if the transfer switch fails not no power is plugged in, why is 110v still shorted?

wanna REphrase the 2nd sentence above, makes no cents 2me.
_______

also it's not clear that the "transfer switch"

used 2 REroute input from the back plug to the front plug is made by p-lax.

regardless here's a bit of reading 4 ya...

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...elp-64431.html

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...fci-65671.html

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...not-42337.html

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ons-61945.html

and there are many other threads on

how/when/IF the relay/delay/switch thing works properly and under what conditions.

cheers
2air'




cheers
2air'

pip8688 07-29-2010 11:34 AM

What I meant to say 2air(last post was before coffee) is, even if the transfer switch fails and no power is plugged in, why would the 110v be shorted, unless that is what caused the transfer switch to fail in the first place. Chicken or the egg, I guess.

Tom

2airishuman 07-29-2010 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip8688 (Post 877160)
What I meant to say 2air(last post was before coffee) is, even if the transfer switch fails and no power is plugged in, why would the 110v be shorted, unless that is what caused the transfer switch to fail in the first place. Chicken or the egg, I guess.

Tom

a bit clearer tom, but i'm still not clever enough to interpret.

IF the 110v is "shorted" that should be fixed.

many things can cause a short (if by short u mean cooked/now misdirected connection)

OFTEN factory INSTALLER errors lead to 'shorts'

once the rig is used or moved much (lottsa looose wires or too long screws, screwed INto things..)

the original question was ""WHAT black magic in a hon' genset broked the trailer, and the tech guy said ...""

see post #2.
_______

it's virtually impossible to guess at what PARTS are on your unit without the spec sheet.

these isn't usually ANY '110 power' when not plugged in or running a generator...

unless an INVERTER is present.

the inverter makes gold from the straw in a battery.

we now know there is a gen prep package on your rig, but not much else.

is there also an inverter?

is there solar?

what batteries and so on?

there are 'switches' all over the place...

pick an item it's got 'switches'.

p'lax makes the charger/converter, but not the inverter, or gen prep page parts.

there are breakers to flip or reset, gfi stuff, and all sorts of mysterious goodies...

it's under warranty so you got a year or 2 for them to FIX stuff, while u learn what is what.
________

it's still not clear, what if ANYTHING the gensets have to do with this.

sometimes the capacity of gizmos exceed the capacity of gizm'owners...

this leads to all sorts of shorts, chickens and eggs.

best o luck!

cheers
2air'

pip8688 07-29-2010 01:14 PM

the tech basically said that the gen might have caused the transfer switch to break. I told him that I connected to the shorepower when we got home and the surge protector went off. So my guess is something happened between picking up the trailer and home. Probably loose wires of sort. The problem to me is that the tech did not find any problems and that as soon as he replaced the switch, everything is working fine. I'll see what happens when I bring it back home. I am also worried that perhaps it was the gens that may have caused the problem. If it is, then, I don't think they will keep fixing the problems under warrantee.

I just hope that it was just a faulty switch. I was just worried when the tech said it might be the Hondas that are causing the problem on parallax.

Tom

Ins. Man 07-29-2010 01:21 PM

How much propane does Generator Use?
 
I need to run my Onan 2500 propane generater all night to run a speep apnea machine. I have two 30lb tanks and wonder if anyone can tell me about how much propane per hour I might use?

2airishuman 07-29-2010 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip8688 (Post 877204)
...I just hope that it was just a faulty switch. I was just worried when the tech said it might be the Hondas that are causing the problem on parallax.

Tom

1. don't mention ANY genset usage or tell him u switched to some other brand...

IF the part fails multiple times, they need to investigate WHY, not suggest "your genny did it"...

2. the front/side plugs are supposed to be INTERCHANGEable.

i routinely use shore power connected to EITHER plug.

do this a few times (move it back forth while camping or at home) and listen for the CLICK as the brains switch.

i also use the gensets at EITHER plug, just don't try using BOTH PLUGS at once.

and don't RUN the gensets on ECO if hooked up in parallel.

3. get a gizmo that READ and DISPLAYs voltage, hz and another that reports USE...

low voltage fries a LOT of stuff and happens more on SHORE POWER than u might imagine.

unless you have a dedicated 30 amp connection at home,

plugging into a typical 15-20 amp outlet and wiring CAN and does trip breakers, over heat and may be the issue.

((don't leave ANY stuff on inside the trailer while plugging into a typical home outlet))

cheers
2air'

pip8688 07-29-2010 02:58 PM

Thanks 2air

Tom

pip8688 08-03-2010 12:01 PM

2air, Is my neutral and ground wire supposed to be shorted to each other. Mine are. It's tripping my surge protector from shore power.

richinny 08-03-2010 12:47 PM

until he answers, you can read this:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...put-22562.html

if your surge protector has a gfci, it might be tripping.

pip8688 08-03-2010 01:24 PM

Ricky,

My surge protector does have GFCI

Tom

2airishuman 08-03-2010 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip8688 (Post 879065)
...Is my neutral and ground wire supposed to be shorted to each other...

on the genset?

some of the info in this thread may help/or not...

like post #9.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...tor-67263.html

cheers
2air'

pip8688 08-03-2010 07:38 PM

the short is in my RV. direct connection to non-FGCI shorepower works ok, but as soon as I use surge protector inline to shorepower, surge protector trips. From one of your eary posts(2006?), you had a similar problem with neutral and ground being connected that caused GFCI at campsites to fail. However, I have not heard from anyone on this forum that states definitively whether they are or are not supposed to connected together in AS. I have a call into AS tech support, so I should here something back any time now, but wanted to pick your brain a little first.

2airishuman 08-03-2010 07:44 PM

ok, that's clearer...

yes i reported about the neutral/ground SHORT in my unit....

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...lks-21082.html

and NO it's not supposed to be that way normally.

the short in my unit was a result of an a/s service tech OVER tightening a screw in the airconditioner junction box...

before they agreed to LOOK for the problem and found it, i spent a YEAR dealing with gfci TRIPPING...

the company line was "don't use parks with gfci connections"

and that BS was dropped immediately after finding and fixing the short.

this all gets very frustrating so hang with it and don't give up.

cheers
2air'

pip8688 08-04-2010 12:36 PM

2air, I just got word from the dealer service tech that neutral and ground are not supposed to be bonded together just as you said. Now, I got my work cutout for me. I am going on my inaugural trip in 2 days and want this problem fixed before that. i think the short is in my 110V outlets so I need to open them up one at a time. Hopefully, it's just a loose wire somewhere.

2airishuman 08-04-2010 04:30 PM

i'm no electrician...

but it's not necessary to open EVERY connection to bird dog this.

first EACH breaker can be checked for the ground fault.

then only STUFF on the OFFENDING breaker need be explored

with regard to fixtures, outlets, appliances and junctions/connections.
________

depending on WHICH BREAKER has the short, this may not take a lot of checking...

it's important to UNPLUG all 115/ac appliances BEFORE exploring too...

for example a tv, the microwave, the charger/converter or even the fridge could be the source of the ground fault.
________

ok please don't rely on my posting for guidance...

use some1 with LEGIT juice mastery for this process.

cheers
2air'

TBRich 08-04-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman (Post 877241)
....<big snip>....

and don't RUN the gensets on ECO if hooked up in parallel.

...<big snip>...

cheers
2air'

Quick question, 2Air... is this advice (in post #9) specific to this particular situation/discussion ... or a general statement when running 2 generators in parallel... just wondering...if it's the latter, what's the reason? Thx...TB

2airishuman 08-04-2010 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBRich (Post 879625)
Quick question, 2Air... is this advice (in post #9) specific to this particular situation/discussion ... or a general statement when running 2 generators in parallel... just wondering...if it's the latter, what's the reason? Thx...TB

it was specific to trouble shooting the problem

and the voltage/output CHANGING that goes with eco might add 2 the odd behavior.
______

IF 2 are needed for a/c use eco isn't a great idea either.

i seem to recall the owner's manual suggesting NOT to use eco when paralleled...

but could just be imagining that reference so check da' book or honda faqs...

cheers
2air'


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