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LI Pets 11-17-2008 04:36 PM

Bob Thompson - no apology
 
As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Beret.

Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the committee will not be publishing citing confidentiality. :rolleyes:

I hate to say here we go again but.................

Question can/should IP not follow the directive?

The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentiality clause.

Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.

wkerfoot 11-17-2008 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets (Post 639123)
As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Berret.

Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the comittee will not be publishing citing confidentiality. :rolleyes:

I hate to say here we go again but.................

Question can/should IP not follow the directive?

The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentialty clause.

Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.

Bob,

Where did this information come from?

Bill

Foiled Again 11-17-2008 05:09 PM

Eating .... uh IT
 
Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

First Bob is out, now he's back in AND he will be showing up and participating in IBT meetings, etc. EVERYONE will figure this one out.

Perhaps we should let the Jerry Larson eat his big bowl of steaming (oatmeal) in "private".

Everyone will know what happened. The gossip mill will spread a better story than any apology ever will. Bob deserves one, true. But now Bob and most of the rest of us can chime in about really changing the club much more openly now. That was the goal. If you've BEEN in the end zone more than once you don't have to do a big silly dance. Just look like it's no more than you expected.

If Bob Thompson and all of us who support dragging the IBT into the 21st century can show gentle restraint by not demanding a public apology, doesn't it actually ad to the load of (oatmeal) that has to be eaten?

This IS a Karma thing. Negative Karma reflects back on the sender more than on the recipient. Let the bad Karma and bad manners displayed by our IBT President start and stop with him.

Just my opinion. Paula

BTW, will someone from the WDCU pm me with info on how to join. I want to rabble rouse from the inside now.:innocent:

LI Pets 11-17-2008 05:09 PM

PM sent

wkerfoot 11-17-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again (Post 639130)
Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

First Bob is out, now he's back in AND he will be showing up and participating in IBT meetings, etc. EVERYONE will figure this one out.

Perhaps we should let the Jerry Larson eat his big bowl of steaming (oatmeal) in "private".

Everyone will know what happened. The gossip mill will spread a better story than any apology ever will. Bob deserves one, true. But now Bob and most of the rest of us can chime in about really changing the club much more openly now. That was the goal. If you've BEEN in the end zone more than once you don't have to do a big silly dance. Just look like it's no more than you expected.

If Bob Thompson and all of us who support dragging the IBT into the 21st century can show gentle restraint by not demanding a public apology, doesn't it actually ad to the load of (oatmeal) that has to be eaten?

This IS a Karma thing. Negative Karma reflects back on the sender more than on the recipient. Let the bad Karma and bad manners displayed by our IBT President start and stop with him.

Just my opinion. Paula

BTW, will someone from the WDCU pm me with info on how to join. I want to rabble rouse from the inside now.:innocent:

Paula,

Unfortunately, the world does not revolve around AirForums or even WBCCI forums. Bob Thompson's suspension has never been mentioned at any WBCCI rally which I have attended. There are many, many WBCCI members who do not pay attention to anything on the internet forums or email lists. Those members get their news from the Blue Beret and region and unit newsletters.

For example, Bob Thompson's suspension (and reversal) has not been mentioned on the region 12 site.

Bill

Foiled Again 11-17-2008 05:39 PM

Hmmm...
 
True the world doesn't revolve around Air Forums or the Blue Beret... but apparently Larry can't quite ignore the forums can he? So maybe a few more people are interested in it than you or I know.

Will think on this. Will join. If Larry's reading this, will it worry him?

Vengence is mine sayeth the Ford (my last name IS Ford, and yes I drive a chevy)

wheel interested 11-17-2008 06:07 PM

No acts of contrition mean no repentence. If it was good enough for the model prayer, It's good enough for me. To be forgiven you must be sorry. To put pride first speaks volumes of the silent IBT. No way would I align myself behind that kind of leadership.

Gene 11-17-2008 06:52 PM

I watch these posts on WBCCI with curious interest. For one thing, I am glad we didn't join because having been involved with organizations that needed change, I have learned how hard it is to change them. Those in control won't give up power easily and are committed to the "way things have always been". It's what kept monarchy in power so long. They will make sure they are replaced with people with the same viewpoints, so it does little good to wait for them to die. I have also found that ends justifies the means often guides them and they ignore bylaws and their own rules, or find a way to rationalize whatever they do. This is a weakness that can be exploited.

I think most organizations that have been around a while get arthritic and the only way to change them is: (1) decide what you want and can be agreed upon by everyone or almost everyone, (2) a strategy subscribed to by many people to take over—it's basic politics and takes a while, and (3) keep publicizing the problems, even taking it to the national media (Airstream stories are good press). It's also good to know the rules backwards and forwards and use them against the ruling class when possible. My impression is that the company supports WBCCI in some way, so finding out just how Airstream sees the situation is important and once the dissidents have a plan for change, approaching the company could be useful.

This is hard enough in a local organization, much harder in a national one. People who want change have to agree on what they want changed and how to do it. At this point, people have a lot of complaints, but I expect what each one wants is different from everyone else's. This is difficult to do online, so maybe a "Change the WBCCI Rally" could be organized and then people can debate what they want, write up a proposal (i.e., "locks can be on the tongue at rallies", "no one may wear a vest", "no flags showing how important you are"—a bit tongue in cheek), how to do it, choose leaders, and go for it. This rally may have to go on for more than a weekend or there may have to a couple of them.

Of course, membership may dwindle to the point it's easy to take over, but that's counting on things out of your control and may not happen in the next decade. And maybe membership will dwindle so much, it's easier to start a new organization with much greater informality, but that also may take a decade. After that Rally or two, maybe the participants will decide it's better to start a new organization and find a way to promote it—getting the company to support that would be very helpful. If you've never run a large nonprofit organization, a warning is in order—it's a lot of work and you have to be dedicated to it. And in 20 years, a bunch of younger troublemakers will be telling you about how hidebound you are.

Good luck. I'd love to see a national organization I'd want to join.

Gene

Sixty3TW4US 11-17-2008 06:55 PM

No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment? join or not to join you are not making it easy.

whitsend 11-17-2008 07:07 PM

Gene said "Good luck. I'd love to see a national organization I'd want to join.

Count me in!!

Ed Emerick 11-17-2008 07:31 PM

Well Said
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again (Post 639130)
Well, here is my take for whatever it's worth.

Just my opinion. Paula

.:innocent:

Enough is enough, I say get over it and move on. Thanks Paula.

wkerfoot 11-17-2008 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US (Post 639187)
No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment? join or not to join you are not making it easy.

Have fun and enjoy my AS. Just what we do when we go to a WBCCI rally with our unit.

Bill

Ed Emerick 11-17-2008 07:36 PM

It has in the WI Unit and Region 7
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot (Post 639137)
Paula,


For example, Bob Thompson's suspension (and reversal) has not been mentioned on the region 12 site.

Bill


And AGAIN we need to get over this and move on. Don't fuel this fire any more. Some would like it to burn on and on, but its time to focus on the future and not the past, let Bob go do his thing and we will go do ours.

LI Pets 11-17-2008 07:40 PM

Here's what's all about.

Bob is coming to the Can Opener, I hope to see him there!

Ed Emerick 11-17-2008 07:40 PM

then don't pay your dues and move on.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel interested;63916t3
No way would I align myself behind that kind of leadership.

I have to add 3 to post so there but the title should say it all

Dieselgrin 11-17-2008 08:00 PM

Boy do I ever feel like an outsider. As a new member, I have no idea what this thread is about. Sounds like something I probably should just walk on by.

Gene 11-17-2008 08:56 PM

Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene

wheel interested 11-17-2008 09:43 PM

Well Ed I did renew after hearing Bob was reinstated and I joined a local unit rather than signing as a MAL in support of the new 2nd VP Laura (Airedale) At 21 years old and the author of young people in the WBCCI thread I think she is hope for the future.

I really doubt you agree with being in lockstep with the current IBT and what they have done and what they are doing, so your post not to belong has surprised me. Must have caught you on a fluke in a bad way today. :wally:

But just to demonstrate how simple this is, I'm sorry my words were grievious to you, wasn't my intention at all. Now see IBT, it's not that hard to apologize! The thing is... to say sorry accepts responsibility and that is what they are avoiding in my opinion. I believe they believe they are never wrong, do hate being criticized, and will not address anything but a compliment or an award.

However the recommendation of the review board has not been completed and Bob's justice has not been satisfied as such. Just the facts here. I see no cause to become alarmed Ed. There will be those that believe the apology should be given as directed.

wheel interested 11-17-2008 10:11 PM

As a mom I have had more than a little experience in this and the "I'm sorry" part, though it may have taken longer, was an imperative part of the lesson and the "break" in the altercation was just the first of it. Following through is significant in my opinion.

Foiled Again 11-17-2008 10:17 PM

Leo's case dismissed too....
 
I see a trend developing here. I got my info on the WDCU. I'll fill out the app tomorrow. I had a 3.5 hour stint at the dentist's today and I'm whipped. Since Bob is going to the Can Opener, I'll do my best to get there too and meet him.

Seriously, can we change WBCCI.... or do we really even care? Lets all:
  1. focus on going camping and building the local clubs into CAMPING clubs
  2. if we must have conflict with the IBT find battles worth fighting - Such as changing WBCCI enough to get Corporate sponsorship back, and being more frugal with the club's money.
  3. infiltrate every region with forum members (I bet that's a done deal already.)- teach everyone who is computer illiterate how to use the internet and introduce them to airforums.com
  4. gradually take positions of leadership
  5. continue to support forums rallies - its about CAMPING folks
  6. invite and entertain the blue beret members and IBT fogies, converting a few here and there, getting a few more to be a bit tolerant, getting the rest too drunk to care
  7. outlive them if all else fails
P.:innocent:

Foiled Again 11-17-2008 10:37 PM

Crazy Horse & Sitting Bull
 
Or as we know them "Bob & Leo"....

Custer never admitted he was wrong, did he? But what remains of Custer's reputation today? He's seen to be an arrogant vainglorious showoff who forgot the most basic rules of tactics:
  • know your enemy
  • never underestimate their numbers, commitment or skills
  • all other things being equal, choose the high ground (blew that one BIG TIME)
Did you know his troops called Custer "old iron ass" because he could stay in the saddle and endure any hardship longer than his men could? Just had one problem - arrogance, and a tendency to rate opponents as "inferiors."

Tonight the scalp of the yellow-hair hangs in from the lodgepole of Crazy Horse's tent. The stick from the butt of the yellow-hair was used by Sitting Bull to count coup. Light the campfires, open a bottle of firewater, dance under the moon.

I'm crawling into bed with a glass of Suxx (an excellent Australian red wine). Nite all. Paula:blink::angel:

Gkiesel 11-18-2008 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene (Post 639236)
Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene

It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join. The real heart of WBCCI is at the unit level. Some units are great, some not. I happen to be part of the Watchung NJ unit, which is a great group of people. The biggies at international do need to make changes, and sacking dissenting voices is just wrong. But I really think that the web tends to let issues take on a life of their own, They never die, and no resolution is adequate to all. If I was not a member, and all i knew was what I read on this or even the WBCCI forums, I would never join. I do think though, that there are thousands of members who enjoy the club for what it is, a chance for like minded individuals to get together, and I'm glad to be a member. George.

munimula 11-18-2008 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gkiesel (Post 639401)
It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join.

Well put George. If it were not for being a WBCCI member we would not have camped in some amazing places that the club gains special access to. Metro NY's Ft Schulyer Rally, Watchung NJ Unit's West Point Rally, WDCU's Cherry Blossom Rally on Rogers Farm, etc. Beside the excellent camaraderie, camping at these spots are worth the price of admission to the WBCCI alone.

Check out last months West Point Rally slide show here....


west point

Gene 11-18-2008 12:21 PM

George, I appreciate what you're saying and I'm sure you and the Wachung group are dedicated members seeking change.

Do I need to join another organization with problems at the top? My life is full enough. Does every organization need some changes? Yes, some more than others. I am involved in trying to reform an organization that needs some serious changes and thus, I know how hard that is and how much of my time it takes. I understand the Four Corners Unit is quite informal and would be a plus in any decision I make at another time.

Do I want my money, especially during difficult economic times, to go to an organization with methods at the top that I don't like? No. We get scores of requests to join organizations and give money to worthwhile charities every week—we have to make tough decisions where to contribute and what to join. I wish I had unlimited funds, but don't.

I realize that the impression one gets from what is posted can be distorted. It could be that 10 or 20 unhappy WBCCI members make it sound like hundreds are unhappy, but it could also mean that they are the top of the iceberg—most people do not complain, they vote with their feet out the door. I understand many people have left the organization over the years and though I don't know the numbers, that tells me something.

So, for the time being, it doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are good local units and perhaps as the "loyal opposition" they can organize to make the changes necessary to make the WBCCI relevant to Airstream owners in the present. I wish you all luck. There are major changes occurring now in how things are organized (See David Carr's column in the New York Times for Nov. 10, 2008, page B1—go to the Times' website and search for David Carr and the article on how Obama changed how to organize and mobilize) and a lot of it is about using the internet. The older models, all of which I am very familiar and comfortable with, are not working now and I am as confused by new ways of doing things as anyone. The Forum is part of change and is gradually supplanting WBCCI it seems.

Gene

Frank's Trailer Works 11-19-2008 03:24 AM

First off.... Paula, I am so glad you joined us. I promise that at your next event I will be your personal welcoming committee. I promise you will feel like you are with family. The only thing you will not like about the WDCU is the time between rallies.

Second ... Gene, I hope you change your mind. I think you will find the politics up top to be something to just laugh at.

Third.... Ed, I want to sit under the awning and have a cold beer or six with YOU.

Fourth... Bill you too....

Fifth and final.... I had my undies in a bunch over this suspension thing. It pissed me off big time and I jumped on the "vote with my feet" band wagon. I wrote Mr. Larson a letter stating my displeasure with the ITB actions and requested he over rule the suspension for the sake of the club stability. I also stated that if further suspensions were to take place (Leo) that I would resign from the club. I was sent a somewhat form letter as many others were. However, some one listened. I hope it was not appeasement.
At the WDCU installation rally there were many discussions of what we (our unit) should do and what the unit members wanted to do to proceed. A few of us were proposing holding our dues until the mess was straightened out. But in our unit a voice of reason came forth. I am not sure exactly who it was but someone said, "I think we have fun doing what we do as a unit. Nothing is broke here. Let's just keep doing what we do and show them how fun it can be." And everyone seemed very comfortable with that.

Buttercup 11-19-2008 05:34 AM

I thought long and hard about this statement - night shift gives me that opportunity. What I came up with is that as long as people say that - its all well at the unit level so there are no problems. Well, that is just not the case.
Bob was almost thrown out of the club just for speaking his mind. That was overruled and furthermore a few steps were to be taken, including publishing in the Blue Beret an apology to Bob and his wife. That hasn't happened - in fact, the IBT has not completed any of the tasks they were requested to do when this was overturned in the first place to the best of my knowledge.
To ignore what has happened is running around with blinders on.
Yes, go out and have fun. But remember, that is not enough to keep the club alive. You can't just ignore what the leadership is doing while you are out there having fun. Because that is how a name change was almost run through and that is how off brand products were almost allowed into the club.
Kicking somebody out is serious stuff and will not go away by pretending the situation didn't happen.

hampstead38 01-24-2009 12:59 PM

In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.

purman 01-24-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampstead38 (Post 659769)
In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.


Well said....

StevenG 01-24-2009 05:36 PM

Ok, as a newbie who is in the process of getting an Airstream, just what is IBT? And where can I get information to find out the benefits of WBCCI? And an application, in case I'm interested? Thanks!
Steven

Jfuller678 01-24-2009 05:40 PM

I am happy to report that I and perhaps hundreds of others have no idea what you are talking about.

pcasa 01-24-2009 10:48 PM

As a boomer rapidly approaching 60, I agree with Hampstead .... I attended my first and only rally last year and had my rookie enthusiasm quashed by an older member who called me "one of the younger ones" and made me feel very unwelcome because I didn't have the proper ID yet ... I knew I was in trouble then - feeling 16 at 60 not necessarily a good thing - at any rate, most of us working boomers are tech savvy and would agree with Hampstead that change has to come to this antiquated organization ... and good old fashioned courtesy and common sense would be a good place to start

Frank's Trailer Works 01-25-2009 05:20 AM

As a 42 year old father of two, I am so glad that none of my experiences have been the same as continuously portrayed here in these threads. Sorry you all have such bad, or lack of experiences. Glad to be me and not you. I will now go back to enjoying the WBCCI as I did this past year. You all can go back to running my club down now.

hampstead38 01-25-2009 07:15 AM

Somehow I feel like I wrote something about declining church attendance and offended the leader of the Tuesday morning men's bible study at the local Lutheran church.

About a year ago, my wife and I decided to take a year off after our youngest daughter graduates. This led to a discussion about travel trailers. We didn't know what a "same old box" was. We figured it out for ourselves. We looked at vintage Spartans, Avions, Shastas, and, yes, Airstreams. The Overlander was a practical, not spiritual, choice... better parts availability, better support and these wonderful forums. (Everyone take a bow.) When we're done with our hiatus, we may keep the Overlander. We may not. It's a fun project but nothing close to a defining element of our lives.

I once spoke to you on the phone, Frank, after we bought our trailer. I know you are heavily involved in the WDCU unit of the WBCCI. I see you have realized your dream of running an Airstream business ("Frank's Trailer Works"). Congratulations. I have listened to you on archival episodes of the VAP. Your participation in the Podcast made it clear (at least to me), that Airstream travel trailers are profoundly important to you. If you ever got a triple-digit WBCCI number for "Anna" I imagine we all could hear your shouts of happiness from Catonsville. In other words, Frank, you are a "front pew" Airstream owner... I'm just a "Christmas and Easter" guy.

Given our wildly different perspectives, I can understand why you might have taken offense at my observations. And I apologize. It was not my intent to insult you or your club. I simply think the WBCCI is operating under an obsolete organizational model. I'm sure the WBCCI is full of wonderful folks. The members of the local Woman's Club were wonderful, too. They just never figured out they weren't recruiting enough new (and younger) members. They didn't understand the cultural shift, the different pattern of "joining" and the changed sensibilities of what people seek from affiliations.

Does the WBCCI work for most of its members, absolutely. Does it "work"? That's a different question and one I could hope might be discussed without offending individual members.

Gene 01-25-2009 08:46 AM

This is the other WBCCI thread that has become active:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ies-46503.html

I think Hampstead38's post #28 on this thread is very relevant—it's an intelligent series of observations of how the world is changing and the internet is a big part of it. Just ask the owner of a newspaper how their business is doing.

Gene

Gkiesel 01-27-2009 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62overlander (Post 659939)
As a 42 year old father of two, I am so glad that none of my experiences have been the same as continuously portrayed here in these threads. Sorry you all have such bad, or lack of experiences. Glad to be me and not you. I will now go back to enjoying the WBCCI as I did this past year. You all can go back to running my club down now.

You know, I have to agree, my expierience has been very positive. Have fun finding virtual friends. I'm going camping, out.

munimula 01-27-2009 08:06 AM

2020 committee
 
The WBCCI is taking a proactive look at where the club needs to be heading. The Region 2 website has posted a number of documents pertaining to the 2020 Planning Committee and their presentation at the mid-winter IBT meeting. If you want to help shape where this club is going, it's worth checking out the doc's. You may want to start with this one...

https://wbcci2.org/2020-IBTReportMid-Winter2009.pdf

Other docs include...

Proposed Action Plan for 2009
WBCCI.org Web Site Proposal
December 2008 Public Relations Report
Motion -Vision & Mission Statements
2020 IBT Report Mid-Winter 2009
WBCCI: New Directions - A compilation of proposals compiled by the
2020 Long Range Planning Committee
Change in WBCCI - a series of articles by Phil Pons

see WBCCI -- Region 2 homepage for links to the the planning docs.

bob280 04-20-2009 01:41 PM

As usual, the IP is misinformed. The confidentiality clause in RONR only refers to "Investigations conducted by a "Investigations Committee" and to certain details pertaining to a person who is expelled from an organization. Bob T was NOT expelled and NO investigations Committee was ever appointed. If the Ethics and greivance committee conducted an investigation, they failed to inform Bob T and did not include him in such. In fact, the Leadership under mr. Larson failed to follow proper procedures. It is noted that two "fron the floor" candidates for international office had greivances filed against them and both greivance were found to be without merit and were revoked or dropped. Now this year the technique was to charge outrages fees in order for the candidates to have their info printed in the BB. And when the fees were paid, their candidate papers and positions were still not printed. Check out "Which is it?" on Savewally for more details.

bob280 06-29-2009 04:35 PM

Hi, I,m Bob Thompson and just came upon this thread. So here are my coments:
The greivance apparently a planned action to keep me from running of International Offic which backfired. Yes they suspended me and yes an IBT appeals board revoked the suspension and restored me to full membership without a break in service.

The RONR clearly limits the Confidential part of a greivance to any investigation that a greivance committee may undertake. Other then that ALL of the reswt the the procedures and actions are open to all members. So the International President was clearly wrong. Period. having said that My wife and I do NOT want any apology from the International President because it would ring hollow and , In my opin, would not be worth the paper it would be written on.

My only concern is that the club leadership never again abuses, and violates the club's constitution and by-laws by what they did. (you can read the details on Savewally under International cartel railroads Bob.

My greater concern is what they did to interfer with Leo Garvey's "from the floor Candidate effort. What they did was Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The leadership responsible for the above wrongful suspension and interference with an election and for $100,000+/- deficit this year will go out of office on 4July. So it is hoped that all of us can move on with an era of better leadership and look to the clubs future.

Enough said, I an going camping.

Lily&Me 06-29-2009 04:46 PM

You know, we appreciate hearing your side of things, but all of this WBCCI political stuff is very off-putting for many, many people. We worked for a really corrupt bureaucracy for 25 years, it all sounds so sadly and sickeningly familiar. In other words, good for you to get your word out, but it reinforces some of our feelings that we want no part of it. :(

sempi2 06-29-2009 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty3TW4US (Post 639187)
No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment?.

I also have no comment - in fact have no idea what this thread is all about.:blink::blink:

dscluchfc 06-29-2009 08:40 PM

This sort of political upheaval has been happening and boiling since I bought my trailer in 2002. At that time, I was Chairman and CEO of a large major Political Action Committee as part of my professional responsibilities.

I was up to my nose in politics DAILY then, and I still am even though I am no longer running a PAC. Once you travel in those circles, it seems you always do.

The LAST thing I wanted was more POLITICS involved with my RECREATION designed to get me AWAY from POLITICS.

I have never joined the local unit despite a very good friend who is a "5 or 6 star general" WBCCI member continually prodding me to join. I was ALMOST persuaded to join the 4CU unit when it was formed because of the monumental fight they had to even get a charter from the powers that didn't want an "internet based" unit. Eventually the powers that objected agreed to a provisional charter that would only be made a full fledged unit if certain criteria were met...and they were met.
Most of the 4CU activities are over 500 miles from my home, and I still have not joined WBCCI.

I just want to camp.
I want to be on the road and see and do things I can't do when I am working.
I don't want meetings, I just want to camp.
I don't want organizational politics and responsibilities.
I just want to camp.
I enjoy the "commumity" that Air Forums has and the sharing of information and problem solving as we all maintain our "bucket of rivets".

Maybe I will get my loose ends tied up in a couple of days, and I will get to hook up and see some highway later this week in New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Colorado.

Perhaps I may even see you....on the road.

Lothlorian 06-29-2009 09:03 PM

David:

Ditto to what you said about just wanting to go camping. I was involved professionally in an amateur sport for over 30 years as a coach. Many of those years I had to work for parent run organizations. As a coach and a parent of children who did dance and sports I have had my fill of board of directors and meetings. So many times meetings were not about the sport. It was about peoples personal feelings and they would always drag them into the meetings and go on and on and on and on (yuk!).

No more clubs for me. All I want to do is camp and plan my future retirement. I want to meet new interesting people where ever I go. I would like to attend a rally some day but only as a guest. I just want to let the good times roll and use airstream forums for learning from very interesting people.

Bob who ever you are I just wish you luck and may you always have good days of camping.

Brian

Beginner 06-29-2009 09:43 PM

Observances
 
Bob
I'm glad to see you back and swinging. Keep your guard up.
Second is the observed part.
I belong to a very old fraternity. It too suffered from being very conservative to a degree. We missed young men joining our ranks, mostly from the Vietnam WAR and not wanting to be part of any organizarion. We lost two or three generations of men due to this. However in the last few years, our membership being the average age of 65 or better realised that change was necessary to survive. Even more it was realised that when the fraternity was strong the men of the present was running it.
We had a few younger men knock on our door each year. Then came the first Desert Storm and the desire for the young men to be a member of an old organization, something bigger than they were. Then the second Desert Storm and more from the first war started showing up in even heaver numbers. Those of us older members realised as stated before that when the organization was flourshing the men of the time were running it. The elders gave advice in sticky situations. A couple of chrasmatic men joined and the flood gates opened. We went from 3 to 5 new members a year to 12 to 15 men wanting to join a year. We, the older ones realising the above situations and stepped back. It is once again a meeting place of popularity. The old rules are still in place and are followed to the SPIRIT, but we have come to realise that the old rules are vague enough to allow vitality and growth. The new guard is in their thirtys, the rest of us are in our late fifties AND MUCH OLDER and are feeling younger and revitalized by the mew bloods enthausim (yea I know its mispelled) but the change,... I have been moved.
I am new to the organizaton. I have had my Airstream only a couple of years. But I realise that Wally was about camping and organization. You needed the organization to accomplish the wonderful things (caravans etc) not I think the organization for the organizations sake.
Once upon a time a man had a job from his twentys to retirement. Those days are gone, so are a lot of things, however, the WBCCI can flourish again with the needs of the younger couples in mind.
I look forward with great anticipation going to the Wilder West Caravan, I just hope it is still offered when I retire, and other things, seeing this country as part of a caravan or not. The WBCCI has wonderful things to offer, they just need not to get caught so much in the nit picking details and remeber the root pholosiphy (yea I blew that one too).
By the way, the time is way off as I am in Mountain Standard Time instead of Eastern Standard Time as usual (8:40 PM)
My two cents worth'
Still a
Beginner

Gene 06-30-2009 07:59 AM

Some really good posts from doug&maggie, dscluchfc (that's a mouthfull), Lothlorian and beginner (we ought to get him spelling lessons).

I have been involved in many organizations—some got things done, others got stuck in the past and destroyed themselves. One in particular comes to mind. I spent more than 5 years working to straighten things out, modernize procedures, help get the financial side in order, and encourage looking forward as well as taking care of the present. But the old timers just kept getting older and couldn't hear that the world was changing. If anyone new came along, they didn't stay long. When I resigned from the board, after trying trying to explain the internet's impact and how they had to grasp the opportunity, I told the board "I am old and I'm setting an example by resigning so there's space for a younger person". They missed that one and since I was also a officer as well as a board member, I was replaced by an older person as vp. The experiments with a more active internet presence ended, money is very tight and membership continues to drop. One constituent organization has withdraw from the organization and another seems to have disappeared. It is sad because this is an organization that had some major successes, but is now unraveling.

I admire the people in the WBCCI who are trying to reform and advance the organization. I, in reading these threads for some time now, can't see they have accomplished anything, but maybe it's behind the scenes. From outside it looks like I'm watching the Guardian Council hold onto power in a self perpetuating oligarchy. The bosses select their successors and choose the same type of people who do the same things. Anyone new is blocked by a tangle of rules and costs set forth in the mysterious bible, the "blue book". It has the fascination of watching a train wreck in slow motion, but after a while, you want to see the final crash and explosion, but in this case, the wreck just keeps going on and on and on. That gets boring.

It seems there are elections in a few days. I don't understand how they work, but it appears they are made to look democratic, but aren't. Maybe something will change and I suppose we'll find out in a while. While all this goes on, the rest of the Airstream world keeps moving on and the WBCCI is getting left in the dust. Even Airstream itself, a company which sometimes seems to be living in the past, is starting to have a presence on the Forum. The Forum may be where the energy is shifting now, but it's not democratic and the rules are vague, so it carries it's own seeds of destruction. The Forum's energy is solely that of the characters who post on it and they make it whatever it is. I wonder what comes after the Forum?

Yes, it's time to go camping.

Gene

munimula 06-30-2009 08:21 AM

2020 Committee
 
It is real easy to take swipes at the WBCCI. There have been a series of bonehead moves made by the IBT over the past few years. It is worth noting the good work that the 2020 Committee is doing. Have any of you dissenters actually read the position paper they drafted for the mid-winter meetings? see https://wbcci2.org/NewDirections2020.pdf

There are some really good ideas presented in this doc. Hopefully the WBCCI is not as adrift as some of you would think. I am still twenty years away from Caravanning. I really hope the club exists once it is my turn to hit the road. As I have stated previously - being a member of the WBCCI has enabled me to camp in places I would not otherwise have access to -- Rogers Farm, Grovers Farm, West Point, and Ft Schuyler, to name a few. The club has introduced me to people I call good friends. Oh...and I met my girlfriend at a WBCCI Rally -- totally unexpected.

For me the club just gives and gives. I enjoy volunteering my time to the WBCCI and giving back where I can.

--Dave

bob280 06-30-2009 10:28 AM

Yep, I not only have read the 2020 Reprt and all of the surveys and comments, but I no members of the 2020 Committee on a personall basis. They worked hard on the 2020 Report, but the problem is that the current leadership has given only lip service to it. (My opinion, of course) For example the Club President stated at the Sarsota Rally that seven or eight items had been addressed, but has failed to tell us members what those action items were and as far as I can tell nothing happened. Requests from the membership for more details and all we get is that the leaders have don x number of actions y number of things being worked on , etc. but no detairs. As a saying goes, "where is the meat?"

So perhaps you can inform me as to what the leadership has actually done in reference to the 3030 Com wonderful report and recomendations.

munimula 06-30-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob280 (Post 716004)
So perhaps you can inform me as to what the leadership has actually done in reference to the 3030 Com wonderful report and recomendations.

No more Teen Queen contest?

Bob, my reply was not directed towards you. I wrote it more to inform the people who must sh*t on the club that efforts are being made to fix what ails it.

Gene 06-30-2009 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munimula (Post 716028)
I wrote it more to inform the people who must sh*t on the club that efforts are being made to fix what ails it.

I wonder who you do mean?

When we heard about the WBCCI, we thought that sounds like something we might want to join. Then I started reading about the internecine quarrels, declining membership, etc., and thought "why would we want to get involved in that, or give that type of leadership our money?"

I hope you get it reformed. Then we'll reconsider.

Gene

Lily&Me 06-30-2009 11:50 AM

We second Gene's motion. Make the changes, let us see them in place, then we will consider joining.

bob280 06-30-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munimula (Post 716028)
No more Teen Queen contest?

Bob, my reply was not directed towards you. I wrote it more to inform the people who must sh*t on the club that efforts are being made to fix what ails it.

It is understood that you are a good person and it is hoped you will partake in unit and regional activities as well as caravans.

The Club is going through a problem time but it will hopefully survive with better leadeership oriented towards camping and fun rallies and lots of fellowship,

StingrayL82 06-30-2009 05:19 PM

Bob,

I've followed your "adventure" for quite some time now...I think it's been a couple years now, right? I'm glad to see that you were reinstated with no lost time.

Leo,

I honestly don't know how you manage to keep fighting the way you do. Sorry I jumped ship, right after you started the Save Wally website...being in the Army keeps me all-consumed. The good news is that I was promoted to Sergeant First Class this year....woo hoo!!!

As a former member of the WBCCI, and a younger man of 35 (soon to be 36), the last thing I want to do, when I'm going camping with family and friends, is mandatorily attend a meeting and dealing with close-minded fuddy duddies who fart dust and have no time for opinions from us young whipper snappers...no offense to the elderly meant at all but, rather, to the stick-in-the-mud good ole boy board members who think it their right to rule with absolute power and not listen to the underlings, ie: the IBT I saw at the IR in Salem in '06.

The last time I checked, the WBCCI was supposed to be a Democracy, not a corrupt dictatorship, which is what the IBT is, in my opinion.

Until the IBT realizes that it will not survive, unless something is done NOW, and not 2020, their membership will keep dwindling, both from the elderly members taking their final camping trip and the disgusted members who just want to have fun.

Brooke and I had a blast with the WDCU, when we lived in Maryland. Even though the Cherry Blossom Rally in '06 was soaking wet almost all weekend, we had fun. To me, it was camping at its finest and making new friends, like Star and Peter Grover, and Rob and Zoe, and Colin....wonderful people. The IBT should take note from the WDCU's model and consider adopting it.

I'll keep being a renegade Airstreamer, until something changes.

Chuck 06-30-2009 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingrayL82 (Post 716192)
...the last thing I want to do, when I'm going camping with family and friends, is mandatorily attend a meeting and dealing with close-minded fuddy duddies who fart dust and have no time for opinions from us young whipper snappers...

Who forced you to attend a meeting? In 6 years as a member, I've never been "forced" to do anything by the wbcci.
except...have a good time, whether I wanted to, or not. :blush:

How many times do we have to say it? YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVOLVED WITH ANY OF THIS to be involved w/ the wbcci, if you don't want to. All I ever do is just what you all say you want: get together w/ airstreaming friends and have a good time camping. Thats it.
The only reason I'm even reading this thread is because Bob is a member of my unit. I know Bob. I've camped with Bob. Bob is a friend of mine. And let me tell you something--you're no "Bob Thompson"!
(Ok, that last part was just a little joke ;-)
But seriously: If this had happened to the Region 27 president, instead of the Region 1 president, I would very much be "{shrug} um...yeah. whatever. When's the next rally?!"

RedSHED 06-30-2009 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck (Post 716211)
... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVOLVED WITH ANY OF THIS to be involved w/ the wbcci, if you don't want to. ..."

True enough ... except the dues. We pay money for dues, and increasingly it seems that the leadership are using dues money to enjoy perquisites not consistent with a corporation shelling off members and spitting up red ink. The candidates are selected by the EC, the media is controlled by the EC. Can you get a new idea or candidate in there? Not easily. Do we need new blood and new ideas in there? Desperately.

Gkiesel 06-30-2009 07:25 PM

I'm with Dave on this one. All clubs are what you make of them. For me the WBCCI has been great. Maybe I'm just fortunate to have a great unit. Yeah, there gettin older, so am I, some members drop out each year. But I've never felt any of this stuff that goes on at the international level. I send in my coupon,show up, drink beer with friends of all ages. and enjoy life for the weekend. See you down the road, George.

StingrayL82 06-30-2009 09:06 PM

Chuck,

I was given a membership to the DVNJ Chapter as a "gift" for dropping too much money on the refurbishestoration (yeah, figure that one out) of our Sovereign. I went to the the Turkey Rally in '05 and had never been to a single WBCCI event before in my life. Sherri had just died, and the kids and I needed a distraction, so we went.

Again, no offense to the older folks, but I think I was the only person under 55 there (I was 32 at the time), so I had noone to relate to, and there were very few kids there the same age as my children...grandkids that had been dropped off with Grandma and Grandpa.

When it came time for the meeting, I was told that I had to attend, since it coincided with dinner. The meeting was about as boring as could be, and that clued me in that this wasn't what I had thought it was going to be. I can do without rules, when I'm camping, unless it's the courtesy rules, i.e., keep your animal on a leash, clean up their poo, don't make loud noise after 1000, etc...

The International Rally in Salem cemented my belief that the WBCCI was not for me. The idea that changing an organization's name, which had been in existence for decades, would make it better and increase membership was, is and ever shall be (to me) preposterous, and the manner in which that meeting was conducted was ludicrous.

I cannot, and will not in good conscience, pay dues to an organization that misuses those funds and tells me what I can and cannot do in said organization. Kudos to all the Chapters who do their own thing and disregard the Blue Book, but ask yourselves this: If you joined the Club, aren't you expected to abide by their rules? If I don't agree with the rules, I leave...I don't need to belong to a club to enjoy myself and drink a toast to the genius who invented my rig.

Good luck overthrowing the regime, so you can change those crappy rules...just like RedSHED said in not so many words, seems like the Good Ole Boys are cemented in their places, trading out amongst themselves every so often.

So what's the point to being in the club then? If you are out doing your thing with your friends in your Airstreams together, why in the heck are you in the WBCCI???? If you can't change their rules, and not for lack of trying, without getting sanctioned, censured or even thrown out, then leave and have fun with your friends and family without the rules.

I, for one, wear a beret everyday and it's crappy. It doesn't keep the sun out of your eyes, when it rains it smells like a sheep and it makes look like a Frenchman....great.....just what I wanted.

Chuck, I truly didn't mean to get you ruffled, and I apologize if I did. I am just relaying my experiences. If it seems like I've been rambling, I probably am....I've been up since 0400 and working an extra shift for another soldier, sorry.

Ed Emerick 07-01-2009 07:34 AM

Here I Sit!!!
 
So here I sit at the 2009 International Rally in Madison WI...................

HAVING A BLAST (again, #10 now)

This is what the club is about, nice grass site, great weather, good people, and a meeting to go to when I want to.


Couple of notes on the International, the seminars that they have set are some of the best I have seen in some time, those that set those up, they did a great job!

The VAC parking as always is great, 60 + coaches here and it great to see old WBCCI vintage members ( and non vintage as well!)

Most of all NO ONE has tried to shove politics down my throat this week.


Just a good time with good people.


Get out and pull your trailer, that's what the club is about.:wally:

Chuck 07-01-2009 07:57 AM

Its not "you"; its this notion that keeps getting repeated that wbcci membership "requires" that you do un-fun things with un-fun people. It just ain't so.
Whoever decided to hold a meeting over dinner at a rally...well...might as well just send an engraved invitation to everyone to just quit. Thats just..."extremely misguided". :rolleyes:
But that doesn't make the whole wbcci like that. And the international...well, what it projects about the club is about as far away from reality as you can possibly get. It probably does more to steer people away, than to draw them in, which is a sad commentary indeed. But yeah, it almost did that to me, as it was my first direct exposure to the club, too. It was only by chance that I found the NEU, and learned that it is absolutely n o t h i n g like that.
The wbcci is not the army; nobody here can tell you what kind of hat to wear. period.

and "10-00"?? you've got to be kidding, right? :lol: at 10, we're just getting started. Usually its the campground owner that has to come over and tell us, "you people are having way to much fun. please quiet down". :blush::rolleyes:

rgesch 07-01-2009 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSHED (Post 716223)
True enough ... except the dues. We pay money for dues, and increasingly it seems that the leadership are using dues money to enjoy perquisites not consistent with a corporation shelling off members and spitting up red ink. The candidates are selected by the EC, the media is controlled by the EC. Can you get a new idea or candidate in there? Not easily. Do we need new blood and new ideas in there? Desperately.

...and in a lot of units you MUST be present (attend the business meeting) in order to cast your vote. This is a problem for some folks, especially when important issues come up; Name Change, SOB MoHo, ect.

Not a big issue for me, but the club has lost members over it.

...and gee, I wish I were at International right now!

Frank's Trailer Works 07-04-2009 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
So here I sit at the 2009 International Rally in Madison WI...................

HAVING A BLAST (again, #10 now)

This is what the club is about, nice grass site, great weather, good people, and a meeting to go to when I want to.


Couple of notes on the International, the seminars that they have set are some of the best I have seen in some time, those that set those up, they did a great job!

The VAC parking as always is great, 60 + coaches here and it great to see old WBCCI vintage members ( and non vintage as well!)

Most of all NO ONE has tried to shove politics down my throat this week.


Just a good time with good people.


Get out and pull your trailer, that's what the club is about.:wally:


Unfortunately Ed, I was not parked the grass nor was my entire unit. There was however plenty of space for 13 non vintage units to be parked on the grass. I found the seminars very boring. Did you manage to attend one of the daily Skymed seminars? They were fantastic. We left three days early and are finally having a good time. I had been told that there was a huge division within the club, but finally saw it first hand. Glad you were able to have a great time. I just look forward to getting back to my unit and going camping again. I did enjoy meeting you and wish we could have spent more time together, but we were far away from the rest of the group. To be honest with you, the entire International experience has turned me off to the entire club. I came with an open mind and was sorely disappointed. When I voiced my unhappiness with being separated from the rest of the VAC I was told "oh well, that's how it goes" and the VAC's new president told me "If you are unhappy, that is your problem not mine." If your president is not batting for you what do you have? Sorry Ed to wreck your fun, but I traveled a long way, recruited a bunch of people to come along and we were slighted. There is no other way to view it. I hope the west coast VACers enjoy their club. They can have it.

byamcaravanner 07-04-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
So here I sit at the 2009 International Rally in Madison WI................... HAVING A BLAST (again, #10 now)

Ed, this was #1 for me and we did have a blast, but it was in spite of the activities of the Club and the VAC. I have to say, this was the most pathetic Airstream event we have attended… certainly not worth the $415 we paid to attend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
So here I sit at the 2009 International Rally in Madison WI................... This is what the club is about, nice grass site, great weather, good people, and a meeting to go to when I want to.

Ed, this comment is a bit disingenuous… of the nearly 900 trailers on site, only 60 +/- were on the grass. We were told on Friday that all but a few Vintage units would be located on grass, which was welcome news after our trek to Madison in 90 degree plus temperatures. We were all shocked on Saturday when with only 20 trailers on the grass we were directed onto the pavement. When we raised our concerns with the VAC officers it was like looking at those three monkeys… HERE NO EVIL - SEE NO EVIL – SPEAK NO EVIL. The soon to be installed VAC President Scott Scheuermann, said to us “If you are not happy, it’s not my fault.” Thanks for your great leadership Scott. :rolleyes: Even the grass site was tainted by a homeless squatter “tenting” along the fence of the facility. It was not comforting to be warned by a parker as we first stepped out of our vehicles to keep the kids away from this area located only 100 yards from our trailer. Several days later, the police came by and rousted the guy out.

I will agree with you in one respect… we did meet a lot of great people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
Couple of notes on the International, the seminars that they have set are some of the best I have seen in some time, those that set those up, they did a great job!

It was certainly great to hear PeeWee speak, but listening to Herb quickly reading off Fred’s notes on the ’62 Calif/Ohio differences was less than inspiring.

What I missed was any onsite activities for the kids… I’ve seen more outdoor fun for the kids at a 40 trailer WDCU rally. Sure they had some crafts, but no sprinklers or rock-walls or the sort big-time stuff one would expect at a big-time event like this. No wonder the Teen Queen is defunct. Other than catching up with old friends... the most fun our kids had at the rally site was dodging cars on their bikes. :D


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
Get out and pull your trailer, that's what the club is about.:wally:

I totally agree… we have had great fun using our trailer (and a borrowed one) over the last two years. What I am curious about is… why doesn't the International create an event that reflects that kind of fun?

For my money, the International was a bust! Luckily, we had many events outside the International planned for the folks we invited... this made for happy times and great memories. :wally:

robandzoe 07-06-2009 06:30 AM

Well said Steve
 
Steve,

Your response to Ed's post was right on. Ed, you must have just left Happy Hour where you had a few too many for your post is not totally accurate... maybe you posted it after the pavement (totally discontent) row departed. Not to burst your bubble, but you are not speaking for all.

This was one of the most lame rallies I've been to in quite a while. Even though I had all the expectations of an International - it was still a let down.

For me, the let down started when I pulled up into the VAC rhendevous where I saw Scott walking across to meet us... I pulled up and said hey Scott. He looked at me, asked "Who are you?" and then when I said my name, he said I wasn't even on his list (even though I'd been collaborating via email and was bringing 9 vintage with me).... I was interested to see how I was going to be received after recently resigning as VAC 2nd VP. I resigned because I knew I would not be able to meet the expectations of 1st VP out at Gillette (not attending) and also because the VAC bylaws were not followed when the 2nd VP resigned last year... but that's another story....

Upon convoying over and parading into (why we did not parade downtown is beyond me (I did upon leaving)) the VAC parking area, while somewhat fun - it was a let down for no one in the city got to experience the awe of 66 vintage rigs on the road. Then we were parked... parked on the pavement (we were told Friday night by the VAC Pres that we'd be in grass) with my entire VINTAGE representation of the WDCU... I still was trying to make lemonade with the lemons served.

It was hard and it was hard for many... after the long trip and $$$ ... there were many VERY discontent members (the VAC will be lucky to get them back)...

VAC Happy Hours were the worst I've ever seen regarding the spread... many people but only about 7-8 bowls of pretzels.... the only good one I saw was when the Region President's brought over some food and cake along when Leo gave his leftovers from his Unit President's alternate dinner.

The kids made the best of it all as they usually do... luckily we were not far from Drag N Wagon who was near the grass as well so they could get out of the traffic to play.

It was a pleasure to finally meet people and put faces to names at least.

The International Rally on the WBCCI surpassed my expectations while the VAC portion really let me down - there was a very wide GRASS / Pavement divide created (perception is everything)... especially with all the new rigs parked in the grass amongst the Vintage units while the vintage pavement area had old ones... it was too bad that so many were promised one thing and given something else.

I'd say maybe next time, but I know many of my unit won't be back - a shame, especially where the WDCU has many VAC members. Many will not even be renewing their VAC membership due to the let down... including myself - I'll stay WBCCI but not VAC for now..... it's really wierd hearing me say that as it's 180 out from my past feelings... maybe I should have listened to my unit elders and just stayed home...

StingrayL82 07-06-2009 08:00 AM

Hey Rob,

Maybe you should get together with Peter and make a Military Unit, and show the IBT, VAC and all of the other malfunctioning parts of this sinking juggernaut, how to do it correctly! I'm joking, of course.....sort of. I'm guessing you're a Full Bird by now, right? I pinned E-7 this past April. By the way, I'm still grateful to you for coming along with me to get propane at the WalMart, at CBR '06....good conversation.

If ever there were a Military Unit, even if it wasn't sanctioned by the WBCCI (who needs them anyway?), I'd join, and I'm sure that other folks would too.

Approach it this way....a unit open to all Airstreamers, as long as they followed the decorum set by the leadership....holy crap, sounds like Wally!!!!! :D

V/R,

Mikethefixit 07-06-2009 08:24 AM

Rob
Sorry U had a bad experience,with so many miles traveled and $$$ spent. I have been just sitting back and watching and with my experience with the local Unit president and the comments she made about what they paid at the National in BOZEMAN last yr I decieded never to join if my dues money was being used to fund catered dinners for higherups and free camping. Its not the "down in the trenches "members I have a problem with, you know last yr at Milan there were a bunch of club members there and all were wonderful, its that better than thu attuitude of local presidents and those who aspire to be in the politics of the club that I have a problem with. I dont think Wally would approve of how the club is being run and run down.
Just my opinion from the sidelines.
Hope to see you in Milan this yr
Roger

Ed Emerick 07-06-2009 05:58 PM

Wow!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robandzoe (Post 718023)
Steve,

Your response to Ed's post was right on. Ed, you must have just left Happy Hour where you had a few too many for your post is not totally accurate... maybe you posted it after the pavement (totally discontent) row departed. Not to burst your bubble, but you are not speaking for all.

..


Sorry to hear that your time was not as good as mine, or for that matter the bunch of others I spoke with....................

The Post I made was right on and sober. You make of it (the rally) what you are able to.

Sorry to hear that you were on pavement, I been there and done that, still not a real bad deal in my eyes.


Just like I tell my kids, I'm not here to entertain you, go find fun..............

And one other point, manage your manager.

Scott will do fine as the VAC President

As I stated, it was a good rally, and other than Sky Med Seminars there were a bunch of others that were good, shall I list them? No you know what they were or you needed to READ the program.


West Cost VAC????? Man us Midwesterners had a blast too, Hey DC we gathered 6 new members in the WI Unit ( 3 not from WI) we know how to show people we have a good time too.

Sorry you guys had such a bad time but I still stand by my first post..........

Shacksman 07-06-2009 07:02 PM

Ed, you must have a vision problem if you can't see that there is a great division in the VAC. I can see that there is never a mention of the vintage rallies in the East. There is never any support or encouragement for anyone trying to promote the vintage rallies in Region 2 or 1. Never a mention in the Vintage section of the Blue Beret.
This Internatioal just showed that for some reason any Vintage from the East are outcast. Don't be suprised if a new camping club springs up among the outcast.
I for one travelled with the WDCU caravan and turned East when they left for Madison.
I'v been there before, not again.

rideair 07-06-2009 08:22 PM

Tried to tell you!
 
Rob, Frank,

Real sorry to hear the time you guys had, along with some others was not the best to say the least. I've done three Internationals VT, MO and GA, carried the flag in two of them :wally::chris:. Will I ever do another one? I doubt it, but not ruling it out. As for parking vintage or non-vintage, it depends on ones mind set. There are those who feel because they are "vintage" they are in someways cool, better, more fun, or how ever you want to put it, than the other members of the WBCCI. Those that feel that way, are in my opinion, worst than the big wigs on "Gold Row". While in Perry, GA I meet nicer folks in the general parking, than I did in the vintage area. Maybe it was just me or the group that happen to be there that year, that I do not know, nor will ever figure out.

I understand and agree it's up to everyone to make there own fun, but with anything else, we look to those hosting the "party" to help put on the show and to help make the time spent as much fun as they can, wither it means hosting a field-trip, helping to get things for kids to do, providing door prizes, etc... As the host, it's your turn in the barrel, your job.

I do think for many members in the WDCU that go to other events like a Region, Special Event or International Rally they think, they will somehow have the same about of fun and creativity that many of the WDCU and East Coast VAC Rallies have had over the past. In case you don't know, this is not true!

As one of the "unit elders" that tried, I will not say "I told you so, but, I told you so". For some, we must find out the hard way(FRANK) but I know both of you guys had your heart in the right place wanting to represent the WDCU the best you could and for that "I THANK YOU VERY MUCH":wally::flowers:. I heard you did a great job holdong the flag and would love for someone to post a picture of it.

Maybe next year, you guys will hang back and party with the "East Coast Vintage Rally 2010"

I understand Wayne and Linda put on a great show. Wayne has now passed the "toilet brush" back to MaryKim, Virginia and I for 2010:brows:.

I will start working on the dates, place, etc...over the next couple of months so eveything will be nailed down by the end of the year for those that have to put in for vacation at the first of the year, for the year.

Again, THANKS for you guys supporting the WDCU at International, next time, listen to your elders!!:blink:

drag'nwagon 07-06-2009 08:40 PM

I have never really been one for that kind of politics, but I have to say that it is THICK! I am blessed by being able to turn a blind eye and have fun anyway or, as some would put it..."make lemonade". I am all about lemonade I really love the stuff, but the disrespect, the long look down the nose that I got from some of the VAC higher ups and brown nosing that the wanna"BEs" dish out is sad. I really think that some of these people need professional help so that some day with proper therapy they may be able to go camping and have fun again and perhaps enjoy a cool glass of lemonade. They may even invite some people thay don't know to a cmap fire or a discussion.
All that being said I may go again, I don't really know yet. I will however continue my membership until I get heartburn from it because it was this club and this "intra-club" that earned me and my family some really great friendships and fun times. I was excited to see old friends and meet new old friends for the first time.

More later on the vintage judging.

jhenry 07-06-2009 08:42 PM

Its time to get along in life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some times to heal you need to give it time, no offence to my american couisins This is the TIME!!!!


















Ed Emerick 07-06-2009 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shacksman (Post 718269)
Ed, you must have a vision problem if you can't see that there is a great division in the VAC. I can see that there is never a mention of the vintage rallies in the East. There is never any support or encouragement for anyone trying to promote the vintage rallies in Region 2 or 1. Never a mention in the Vintage section of the Blue Beret.
This Internatioal just showed that for some reason any Vintage from the East are outcast. Don't be suprised if a new camping club springs up among the outcast.
I for one travelled with the WDCU caravan and turned East when they left for Madison.
I'v been there before, not again.

Doug

Vision, I have vision but more importantly I have tolerance. That is what this is all about.

There is no real division, the East is always represented and has always been a force in the VAC. BUT what I think the East does not like is that the rest of us (West, Midwest, Rocky Mtns, etc) has grown as well. You used to be the big dogs but we caught you! I never hear anyone badmouthing the VAC from the East, heck I know a lot of good people from your area.

Promotion is in your hands, I see a lot of rally information from the east, get the info in Bob Herman’s hands and he will get it in the BB. I know when the CB is or the East Coast VAC rally is and I live in WI, how do I get that info? BB, VA, web. So you are getting your info out somehow.

So why do you say the VAC/East is an outcast at this International? Because the DC Unit was parked on pavement? Along with 800 others? It was all in what place you got in line to go in, hay your hero Pee Wee was on grass!.

A new club, COOL, I will join! But I have been hearing this for YEARS!! Fire it up buddy and let’s see what kind of legs this has.

So you never made it to Madison? Then the way I see it, you have no dog in this race. Participate the way I have over the years and then maybe I will listen to what you have to say (complain) about.

Its all about pulling and going to the rally and making your own fun.

Sugarfoot 07-06-2009 09:06 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rideair (Post 718303)
. . . I know both of you guys had your heart in the right place wanting to represent the wdcu the best you could and for that "i thank you very much":wally::flowers:. I heard you did a great job holdong the flag and would love for someone to post a picture of it. . . .


Courtesy of AirstreamHobo's blog.

:wally: I am proud to belong to the WDCU. And that's all I have to say about that. :wally:

rideair 07-06-2009 09:24 PM

You make me proud!
 
Rob,

You look GREAT!!! Glad to see you carried that Black WDCU Flag with pride! :wally::wally: No one can ever say your heart is not in the best interest of the WDCU or the WBCCI.

Lets only hope that your "style" of dressing will catch on with the rest of the WBCCI unit leaders going forward. It would be little changes like that, that could start to bring this club back to the days of the past.

Hope to see ya soon,

Daica, thanks for posting that picture:flowers: and you are welcomed to stay in the driveway next week or the cabin if you want.

Rhonda 07-06-2009 09:37 PM

You know what is great about that picture? I can hear the laugh that goes with the second one!:lol:

Frank's Trailer Works 07-06-2009 11:24 PM

10 Attachment(s)
Ed, The area you described as the "Vintage Area" was far from vintage. Unfortunately, the forums will only allow me to upload 10 photos so I could not show you all the units that there was room for. Maybe you can get out your directory and look up the numbers you see and where these folks were from. You might find this rather entertaining and somewhat informative.
Attachment 83528

Attachment 83526

Attachment 83525

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Attachment 83529

Attachment 83527

Attachment 83533

Attachment 83534

Attachment 83532

Attachment 83531

Yes "our beloved Pee Wee" did stay on the grass. He was given a trailer by Airstream to stay in and is one of the ones I pictured above. You will recognize it as the the one with plastic still covering the rock guard and the propane tank cover still in bubble wrap. I flew Dale into Pittsburgh and he camped with me on our caravan out to Madison. I was truly fortunate to have spent that time with him and will cherish it my entire life. I flew him in so all of the club members could experience him and learn a little bit from him.

It is a good thing you recruited new members. Perhaps one of them will fill my shoes, for what I experienced is not something I want to be a part of. My membership in the VAC will laps for certain.

As far as "managing your managers" I spoke with your new president and was told "that is how it goes" and "if you are upset, it is your problem not mine"

Like I said, glad you had a good time. I am glad you enjoyed your space on the grass. Your 1988 looked fabulous there. No worries, in four years it will be considered vintage too.

Shacksman 07-06-2009 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718321)
Doug


A new club, COOL, I will join! But I have been hearing this for YEARS!! Fire it up buddy and let’s see what kind of legs this has.

You have been hearing it for years and missing the fact that thousands are already in the club. Haven't you noticed the decline in WBCCI membership. Where do you think they go camping???

Shacksman 07-07-2009 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718321)
Doug

So you never made it to Madison? Then the way I see it, you have no dog in this race. Participate the way I have over the years and then maybe I will listen to what you have to say (complain) about.

Its all about pulling and going to the rally and making your own fun.

Sorry, your right. I have no dog in this race so I'll leave you now to camp my own way. Thanks for pointing this out. 50 nights in the trailer so far this year and no politcs.

byamcaravanner 07-07-2009 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718245)
Sorry to hear that your time was not as good as mine, or for that matter the bunch of others I spoke with....................You make of it (the rally) what you are able to.

Ed, none of us on the pavement had a bad time... we all had a great time, making our own fun... as I said "in spite of the International"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718245)
Just like I tell my kids, I'm not here to entertain you, go find fun..............

Problem is... I don't need to pay $415 for the opportunity "find my own fun" If this is the "value" offered by the club, I guarantee that it will keep losing more members than it is gaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718245)
And one other point, manage your manager...Scott will do fine as the VAC President

Tried that... and got the response noted in my previous post. Seems to me that if the VAC board is going to disregard the bylaws, it should be for a good result... so far, I would have been just as well off with nobody in charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718245)
Sorry to hear that you were on pavement, I been there and done that, still not a real bad deal in my eyes.

For me it was $83 a night for rally hook-ups on asphalt... not a bad deal???? Come on Ed.... you can't really believe that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718321)
So why do you say the VAC/East is an outcast at this International? Because the DC Unit was parked on pavement? Along with 800 others? It was all in what place you got in line to go in, hay your hero Pee Wee was on grass!.

Ed, how does that work? Our place in line? As I said before... 10 trailers on the the grass... then the WDCU caravan onto the pavement... then 50 more trailers on the grass... sounds like it didn't matter where we got in line. :huh: ...and yes, Airstream parked PeeWee on the grass, but because of the good guy he is, he joined us on pavement for some good ole fashion camping fun. :wally:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718245)
Sorry you guys had such a bad time but I still stand by my first post..........

Ed, as I (and others) have said... we had a great time... no thanks to anything put on by the WBCCI.

byamcaravanner 07-07-2009 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drag'nwagon (Post 718312)
I was excited to see old friends and meet new old friends for the first time.

Dave, we were happy to cross paths with the drag'nwagon clan... We'll definitely be doing the same in the future. ;) Luckily there is something to treat that heartburn.... "camping fun!"

Frank's Trailer Works 07-07-2009 04:28 AM

Man o man has this thread been highjacked...

I personally am very glad I went to International. The experience taught me a lot. I once again was taught to listen to my my elders, to learn from them.

I learned a great deal about human nature also. Unfortunately, it was a hard lesson to swallow. It was kind of like Limburger cheese, some people love it and others just think it smells really bad.

I am going to do as Ed told me. He is also my elder. I will just shut up and go camping. But in this volatile time for the club, it won't be at another International. I now understand things much clearer. My eyes are now wide open.

soldiermedic 07-07-2009 07:06 AM

This thread hijacking has been an eye reopening experience. Every time Amy and I think about joining the WBCCI and VAC I read threads like this and think twice. I appreciate what the WBCCI originally stood for, and the spirit that many Airstreamers try and uphold, but I do not believe there is a place for politicking in camping. I have been to Airstream events that I have such a good time that I don't want to leave. I am sure we have all had that experience on more than one occasion. I want to experience that when I am camping, and not irritation about how I was treated.

Steve




Steve

Chuck 07-07-2009 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldiermedic (Post 718439)
I have been to Airstream events that I have such a good time that I don't want to leave. I am sure we have all had that experience on more than one occasion. I want to experience that when I am camping, and not irritation about how I was treated.

Steve

I have that experience on every occasion.

too bad that it doesn't appear to be available to you. I'd say to put in for a transfer to Devens...but they closed it. :(

Ed Emerick 07-07-2009 07:30 AM

WOW Again!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 716400)
So here I sit at the 2009 International Rally in Madison WI...................

HAVING A BLAST (again, #10 now)

This is what the club is about, nice grass site, great weather, good people, and a meeting to go to when I want to.


Couple of notes on the International, the seminars that they have set are some of the best I have seen in some time, those that set those up, they did a great job!

The VAC parking as always is great, 60 + coaches here and it great to see old WBCCI vintage members ( and non vintage as well!)

Most of all NO ONE has tried to shove politics down my throat this week.


Just a good time with good people.


Get out and pull your trailer, that's what the club is about.:wally:

And all of the above from a very simple post (Quoted).

Glad I'm still on vacation, parked on pavement, paying over $500 for the week. Got to go ride coasters, see you all when I get home................

soldiermedic 07-07-2009 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck (Post 718443)
I have that experience on every occasion.

too bad that it doesn't appear to be available to you. I'd say to put in for a transfer to Devens...but they closed it. :(

Chuck,

Devens isn't fully closed. My wife is supposedly heading there for training in a week.

Steve

byamcaravanner 07-07-2009 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718446)
And all of the above from a very simple post (Quoted).

Glad I'm still on vacation, parked on pavement, paying over $500 for the week. Got to go ride coasters, see you all when I get home................

But I bet you're getting full hook-ups for that $500 :punk: Party-ON!

markdoane 07-07-2009 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldiermedic (Post 718450)
Chuck,

Devens isn't fully closed. My wife is supposedly heading there for training in a week.

Steve

Which Devens? The post is closed but the fort remains.

Chuck 07-07-2009 09:24 AM

Interesting...I knew there was some 'guard stuff still going on, but I thought that was about it. last I heard, they were in the process of creating a new municipality that encompasses the area formerly known as "Fort" Devens, to be called "Devens". that may have already happened.
What I do know is that the highway exit that used to say "Jackson Gate", now has the word "gate" scratched out, and replaced with "road". (they may have actually made a whole new sign by now, but it was that way at first!)

well, anyway, hook that beast up and point it north by north-east! :wally:

soldiermedic 07-07-2009 09:39 AM

Mark is correct, it is Fort Devens, MA.

I would LOVE to get up into the NE United States. All the historic site would make it worth it. As long as I don't have to see a Red Sox hat or Tom Brady Jersey every 100 meters :)

Steve

Chuck 07-07-2009 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldiermedic (Post 718474)
Mark is correct, it is Fort Devens, MA.

I would LOVE to get up into the NE United States. All the historic site would make it worth it. As long as I don't have to see a Red Sox hat or Tom Brady Jersey every 100 meters :)

Steve

well, nevermind, then. there's just no way to work this out.


:p

rideair 07-07-2009 10:31 AM

Can you answer why??
 
Ed,

Can you or anyone else explain to me why there was 10+ trailers that are clearly not vintage(I understand Airstream had placed one for PeeWee and maybe another for a different reason) parking in the VAC area?? Are they friends of VAC members wanting to hangout with their friends at the expense of other VAC members who brought "VINTAGE" trailers to the International Rally? In Perry, GA a VAC member who showed up early (with a 1964 vintage trailer) were given a hard time about parking early under a tree! Another VAC member who brought their 1985 34' instead of his 1970 model was told even though he was a VAC member, they were "not allowed" to park with the other VAC members because he brought his less than 25 year old trailer to International. Now two years later, you have trailers that are "clearly" not vintage (even though they may have been VAC members) parking in the VAC parking area. I guess it all depends on who you are or who you know!

I think most would agree that to park in the VAC area, your trailer "should be" 25+ years old. If it's not a requirement to have a 25+ year old trailer to park with the VAC, what's the point of having VAC parking!

Based on the pictures all one has to do is become a VAC member to hangout with their frinds in VAC parking even though they don't either own or show-up in a VAC rig!

I will wait for your or anyone else's answer why this was allowed.

robandzoe 07-07-2009 11:26 AM

Good question Paul
 
This question is on Point Paul.. our question exactly from the pavement section (that was all Vintage and no new rigs)... that was our biggest peeve especially after being told by the VAC Pres on Friday that he had good news that we'd be parked on the grass... to not be parked on grass, and then to see all those new trailers in VAC.. that was what really bent us... or maybe it was that our WDCUer's were penalized because they were hanging and caravanning with the recently resigned VAC 2nd VP... We had two 1955 Bubbles - California Whale Tales, a 1958 30 footer (only one there), a 1961 Trade Wind, 1962 Overlander, 1963 Globetrotter and 1971 Globetrotter with us... interesting to see the slideouts there in Vintage...

Who knows.. maybe next year they should charge $300 for grass parking like they did for AC.... to weed out the haves and the have nots or charge non vintage rigs extra to park in Vintage and the $$$ goes to VAC.

Oh well - you live and learn...

rideair 07-07-2009 01:10 PM

Something stinks!!
 
Rob,
As the Region 2 VAC Rep. (not that it means anything to anyone) I do have a real problem with a Unit from Region 2 whom caravanned half-way across the country pulling over 10 trailers from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s to support the WBCCI International Rally along with the VAC and the VAC parade, to be park in an area across from the main VAC area while others who attended with trailers no were close to being “vintage” are parked in the main VAC area regardless of 3 or 30 amp. Why is that? Were they friends with the right people? Did it just so happen over 10-13 VAC members all from the same basic area had their “vintage” trailers fail all at the same time requiring them to attend the WBCCI International Rally with their newer trailers (less than 25 years old) and were unable to change their parking area to general parking?

Something is a foul here and it stinks to high heaven. Being that I was not there, I can only go on a few phone calls made and pictures of over 10+ newer trailers parked in an area that is “supposed” to be used by trailers 25+ years old. As I said in an earlier post, if it is not a requirement to have a trailer older than 25 years to park in the “VAC” area even though you maybe a VAC member, why have it at all?? If the reason why they parked there was to be next to their friends, a group can setup a time to “caravan” in together with the parking committee and be parked with the rest of the trailers in “general” parking.

During the International Rally in Perry, GA I was caravan leader for a group of seven trailers of which we had two trailers that were not over 25 years old. Both the members who were pulling the trailers were both “VAC” members who chose to attend the rally in their newer 1985 and 1989 models/three axle trailers. They were told they “would not” be allowed to park with the “VAC”. Though they did not like it, they understood it was their choice to use their newer trailers to attend the rally because of the heat and accepted that fact they had to park in “general” parking.

I think it is time, to make a requirement (that many of us already thought was there) if you plan to attend the International Rally and park with the VAC, your trailer “MUST” be 25yrs or older to do so, no if’s, and’s or but’s.
I can understand you and the others being upset looking across and seeing new trailers parked in the main VAC area, while you and others are on the sidelines.

If you would like to “officially” file a complaint to the leadership within the VAC (not that it will do anything) or propose a rule be put in place for the requirement of Airstream units to be 25+ years old or old to be allowed to park in the VAC area, let me know. I can find out what is required to do so.

Frank's Trailer Works 07-07-2009 01:25 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Guys, I don't think Ed is the one to ask. I think these questions should be asked of the guy who organized the caravan to International from the rendezvous. You know him, he is your new president. The odd thing is, his name does not appear on the list of officers in the 2008 directory. I always thought you were 3rd VP, then 2nd, then 1st VP before you became president. I guess someone just got slid into the mix. So much for moving up the ranks.

Ed is just painting a rosy picture of what was for him a super time. He does not need to take the flack for all this. It is not his fault he was parked on the grass in his 1988 trailer. He was past president and is doing a tremendous job building his club.

I also think Rob was a little off base in his description of Happy Hour as "the lamest"
Attachment 83585
There was a great spread.
Attachment 83586
There was a bowl of Cheetos
Attachment 83587
There was Chex mix and nacho flavored Doritos
Attachment 83588
and some mini pretzels and baked Ritz crackers. I think he was expecting someone to put out some real stuff.

Over59 07-07-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62overlander (Post 717427)
I traveled a long way, recruited a bunch of people to come along and we were slighted. There is no other way to view it. I hope the west coast VACers enjoy their club. They can have it.

Best to experience these things yourself.
I tried to warn you. They must have found out you broke bread with members of the New England Unit. A real East Coast VAC is important, with or without WBCCI. Tin Can Rally in NY should be a blast.
Come on up and camp. Ninigret Music Festival Labor Day Weekend.

» Festivals & Events

Over59 07-07-2009 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718321)
....Participate the way I have over the years and then maybe I will listen to what you have to say (complain) about.....

Well that's a familiar WBCCI leadership attitude. You, there on the side... you.. new guy with only 5 years in the club.... if I want your opinion I'll ask for it...but please understand you should decline as you haven't got enough time in the club to know what you are talking about....Just send in your dues, pay to attend International and keep your complaints to yourself....

Frank's Trailer Works 07-07-2009 04:00 PM

YouTube - Grateful Dead - Hell In A Bucket - 06-26-94

robandzoe 07-07-2009 04:44 PM

Funny thing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rideair (Post 718549)
If you would like to “officially” file a complaint to the leadership within the VAC (not that it will do anything) or propose a rule be put in place for the requirement of Airstream units to be 25+ years old or old to be allowed to park in the VAC area, let me know. I can find out what is required to do so.

Paul,

Up until a couple months ago, I was VAC 2d VP but I resigned... a time issue as well as something related to the VAC bylaws being pissed upon.... but no one really cares about that either....

I think we should press this Paul. I would like to see how we go about getting a rule put in place to protect those that do make the effort pulling 51 year old trailers to support the VAC but then new units are put before them... such that all vintage are parked together, then new rigs are taken on a Space - Available trailer by trailer case in the future.

Maybe our VAC leadership will give the reason.. it was the new President's job I believe to organize the parade in as well as the parking. But then again, this issue is "Our problem" and not theirs...

drag'nwagon 07-07-2009 05:45 PM

Well.....where is the leadership on this issue?

I know they are reading it or at least hearing about it.

C'mon lets hear it!

Stand and lead or lose membership it really is that simple.

Take the lumps if deserved, or argue if they are not, but please stop hiding.

Shacksman 07-07-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 718321)
Doug
Participate the way I have over the years and then maybe I will listen to what you have to say (complain) about..


Quote:

Originally Posted by Over59 (Post 718607)
Well that's a familiar WBCCI leadership attitude. You, there on the side... you.. new guy with only 5 years in the club.... if I want your opinion I'll ask for it...but please understand you should decline as you haven't got enough time in the club to know what you are talking about....Just send in your dues, pay to attend International and keep your complaints to yourself....

Over59, that comment was made to me and funny thing, I have 11 years in the club and was mentioned 3 times in the last Vintage Advantage for participating at vintage rallies. But what do I know?
Doug Rowbottom

Boondocker 07-07-2009 07:44 PM

A question for intermission
 
I hate to interrupt the squabble, but I am curious; I knew about the larger tiff in WBCCI, but not within VAC. What is the fighting over on the vintage side?

I return you to your regularly scheduled WBCCI drama :jerry:

airedale 07-07-2009 09:04 PM

Frank, Rob, I know how you guys feel, although I didnt park with the VAC last International in Bozeman, I still tried to attend the Happy Hours. I felt like I was not wanted there, if I wasnt parked with them I was almost given the cold shoulder. I even went and asked a VAC officer about the issue with having non-vintage parked with the VAC and was told " Thats not a battle you want to fight." I asked why and was told because we dont want to push people away, and although they are newer trailers at the rally, they may have a vintage at home. Pushing away is just what happend, we pushed away some really great members!

I believe that vintage should be parked in vintage. Even if we wernt on grass, at least put us together. All or none is a saying that Im wondering if leadership has forgotten.

As for the happy hour, I wasnt complaining, I thought it was fine for finger foods, it wasnt suppost to be a meal. Although many of the dishes didnt require much work, its the thought that matters for me. People took the effort to bring something and thats better than nothing.

Frank's Trailer Works 07-08-2009 02:35 AM

Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?


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