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jfaucett 04-14-2003 11:53 AM

Buying Airstream, need help!
 
Hello everybody,

I'm finally ready to fulfill my lifetime dream of owning an Airstream. However, I've got a bit of a dilemma. I need to find a trailer that has enough room for my family (4 and growing) but is light enough to be towed by my preferred traveling vehicle, a 2003 Eurovan MV Weekender (rated to tow up to 5,000lbs).

I found a 1980 Excella II (30ft) in excellent condition that I'd love to own. However, it seems a bit too large to meet my towing requirements. If I cannot tow this trailer then I'm thinking about financing a 22' International CCD, which I know I can tow. What's everybody's opinion of this trailer? Stylistically, it is very nice and it seems light for the size. I believe it would be sufficient to accommodate my family.

I've got a few questions regarding the Excella:
- How much does a 1980 Excella II (30ft) weigh?
- How hard is it to remove the material covering the interior ceiling/walls in order to expose the metal surface? Once removed, would there need to be any major refinishing to leave the trailer with the exposed metal look?
- Is it easy to obtain new window seals for this trailer?
- Is it difficult to convert rear twin beds to a queen-sized bed? Can you just locate the parts from Airstream to make the conversion?
- Does this model have comparable storage tank sizes (water, waste, propane, etc) to a new International CCD? Does it have a similar AC/DC setup to allow convenient use of electrical components without using hook-ups?
- What are the major advantages of a late-model trailer? Have there been any significant technical modifications since 1980? If so, can they be retro-fit?

If any of you could answer some of these questions for me, it would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to do something in the next week or so. This seems like the right place to ask questions as all of the members seem to be very helpful and knowledgeable. Thanks to everyone involved for creating such a great resource for Airstream aficionados!

By the way, does anyone know of an Airstream dealer, or someone who works primarily with used Airstreams, in the Atlanta, GA, area? They seem to be strangely absent in such a major market.

Rickk48 04-14-2003 12:46 PM

Welcome to the forum. You will get most of your questions answered here. In my opinion, your Eurovan is not ideal for the CCD. Factory weight of the 22 CCD is somewhere around 4200 lbs, add to that propane, food, gear, fresh water etc. and you will be very near the maximum for the Eurovan. Most say the trailer should not exceed about 75% of the tow vehicle max. For example, I have a Land Rover with a tow rating of 5500 lbs. My Bambi weighs 4500 maximum with all gear, water etc. and I wouldn't even think of towing a larger trailer.

I believe if you go to the Airstream corporate website there is info there as to the weight of older trailers. As to the difference between new and old or vintage, I think it is mostly a matter of taste, and whether you want to work on a vintage unit or not.

Chas 04-14-2003 12:50 PM

J,

First of all with a VW Eurovan you are going to be severely limited as to what size of A/S you will be able to pull. Do yourself a favor and forget about the thirty footer, more realistically you will need to get something around a twenty footer, the more under twenty the better! Questions as to your exact vehicle for use in tow mode have come up here before on the forum. If I remember correctly no one was able to find out if there is a proper receiver hitch even available for the Eurovan, it may have to be fabricated. It would be interesting to see what class rating of hitch VW offers for your model because that is probably the only place you will find one. I don't want to beat on you too hard, I had a Eurovan myself and had the typical VW love/hate relationship, an earlier model with the 5 cyl engine, screwy trans, undersized brakes but even with the VR6, 4 wheel disc brakes and a larger transmission like yours I would be careful.

Chas

RoadKingMoe 04-14-2003 01:00 PM

Vehicle "tow ratings" are misleading. They are derived by subtracting the published curb weight of the vehicle with no options, usually with an empty fuel tank plus a 150 lb driver, from the vehicle's Gross Combined Weight Rating.

Since the GCWR is often hidden or unpublished, you have to subtract the weight of the options, the weight of a tank of fuel (130 lbs here), and the weight of any additional people and cargo you may carry while towing, from the tow rating to determine the max total wet and loaded weight of the trailer, i.e what you can PULL.

The other thing you have to worry about is how much your vehicle can CARRY, because it has to carry the weight of the hitch and the trailer tongue. The MV has a supposed curb weight of 4478 and a payload of 1387. One could assume this equates to a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 5865, but it would be good to check for a rating sticker on the drivers door or doorjam.

What you need to do here is fuel the van up, load it with all the people and cargo it would have when towing, and take it to a CAT Scale or other certified scale and find out how much it really weights.

Subtract anything over the published curb weight from the payload and that's what you have left for a hitch and tongue weight.

Subtract anything over the published curb weight from the tow rating and that's what you have left for total trailer weight.

In summary, a wet and loaded 22' International at 5,000 lbs MAY BE okay on the pulling part with no passengers or cargo in the van, but at 12% tongue weight or 600 lbs, plus the weight of the hitch is an issue also.

With only 115" wheelbase, the MV is nowhere near long enough to tow a 30+' trailer. It should be okay with the length of the 22'.

Hope this helps,

Silvertwinkie 04-14-2003 01:01 PM

I agree with Rick and Chas. I don't think any of the options are really in the neighborhood of safe. For a fact, you can safely take the 30' off the table with the Eurovan. I have an LT1 Chevy V8 and wouldn't even think of doing that. My Chevy is rated for 5000lbs too.

I'd say if the kids are small, very small, maybe a Bambi if you are going the new route--maybe. Otherwise, **maybe** a minuet (used) due to lighter weight. Now I know that some will swear by the Yugo/Dodge Intrepid is a great tow vehicle, but I would never suggest it, nor would I for a Eurovan. Is not only the engine, but the trans, cooling, gearing, etc that I serioisly question--German engineering or not. :)

My suggestion would first be to look at a tow vehicle and as you look, get one (new or used) that fits in with what you want/need in a trailer.

Regards,

Eric

PS- I agree with Maurice too, it just he got is post in as I was typing. :)

jfaucett 04-14-2003 01:05 PM

Thanks for all of the prompt responses. It looks like I will have to use my Toyota Tundra V8 to do the towing.

Now that is out of the way, can anyone help me with the questions regarding the 1980 Excella II? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all of the help with the towing issues. It looks like I would've been in bad shape had I attempted to use the Eurovan.

Thanks!

j54mark 04-14-2003 01:58 PM

"I've got a few questions regarding the Excella:
- How much does a 1980 Excella II (30ft) weigh?"

There is no '80 model 30' listed on the Airstream site. There is a 31'. I assume you are looking at a rear twin center bath. If so, AS claims a 4785 empty weight with a 606 lb. tongue weight. This will be empty, with no options - although an Excella had very few options.

"- How hard is it to remove the material covering the interior ceiling/walls in order to expose the metal surface? Once removed, would there need to be any major refinishing to leave the trailer with the exposed metal look?"

Very hard and you would have to polish and wax it. There is a thread on this somewhere in the interior restoration forum. It has been done.

"- Is it easy to obtain new window seals for this trailer? "

Yes. An AS dealer should be able to get these.

"- Is it difficult to convert rear twin beds to a queen-sized bed? Can you just locate the parts from Airstream to make the conversion? "

You rip out what is there and fit a bed athwartships as best you can. It will be a tight fit. It is likely you will need to construct some sort of cover for the hot water heater unless yours is located in the bathroom counter. You will also have to hide the water inlet and a electic box. If you build it so you can walk around the foot you will lose the exterior storage on that side.

"- Does this model have comparable storage tank sizes (water, waste, propane, etc) to a new International CCD?"

Propane on the CCD is not listed, but the 1980 31' will likely have either two 30 or two 40 lb tanks. CCD - fresh water, 30 gal.; black tank, 21 gal., grey tank 21 gal. '80 31' - probably (subject to correction) 39 gal fresh, 30 gal black and 30 gal grey.

" Does it have a similar AC/DC setup to allow convenient use of electrical components without using hook-ups? "

Yes.


" What are the major advantages of a late-model trailer? Have there been any significant technical modifications since 1980? If so, can they be retro-fit? "

By far the significant change is the extra 6" of width. That would be a tough alteration. The new units are also a LOT heavier. The current 31' Classic is over 7,000 lbs. Floorplans are virtually identical.

Mark

Chas 04-14-2003 03:05 PM

Geez, now you tell us you have a Toyota Tundra, kinda like pulling the rabbit out of a hat!!

Much better but still IMHO I wouldn't pull a 30' or suspected 32' A/S with it. I would look into the CCD or AS 22' models or get into a vintage unit of similar size, maybe a 25' Tradewind?, a 27' Overlander like I have is not a small trailer by any means, I feel my F-250 is just a bit over-qualified, not much though.

Chas

jfaucett 04-14-2003 03:10 PM

I'd prefer to use the Eurovan Weekender. It will seat 4 people more comfortably than the Tundra will. The Tundra is the last resort. While it does have 4 doors, there isn't much leg room to speak of. The Eurovan gets much better gas mileage and has many additional features, like a refrigerator, fold-out table, GPS navigation, rear seat makes bed, pop-up roof, etc.

jfaucett 04-14-2003 03:11 PM

What do you guys think of the International CCD in terms of production quality, layout, etc?

Rickk48 04-14-2003 03:19 PM

The CCD is fine, if your taste runs to the look. I like the polished aluminum walls, and the modern cupboards. As far as I know, they are produced with the same quality (and problems) as any Airstream. I do not like the "wet" bath, but prefer the separate shower/toilet in the Bambi. You still seem to be leaning toward the Eurovan as the tow vehicle, which is of course your choice, I just hope I don't share a road with you as I think that trailer will drive the Eurovan.

jfaucett 04-14-2003 03:21 PM

As I stated before, after reading the replies to my original post I obviously decided against using the Eurovan for the tow vehicle. I would not put my family, much less others on the road, at risk. All I've said is that I would prefer to use it.

ipso_facto 04-14-2003 03:22 PM

Hello everybody,

I'm finally ready to fulfill my lifetime dream of owning an Airstream. However, I've got a bit of a dilemma. I need to find a trailer that has enough room for my family (4 and growing) but is light enough to be towed by my preferred traveling vehicle, a 2003 Eurovan MV Weekender (rated to tow up to 5,000lbs).


IMO, it is an impossible requirement. Anything under 30-32' will be inadequate given what you want. 34' would be even better. But forget using light trucks with these. Need a 3/4 to 1 ton or even a diesel.

I found a 1980 Excella II (30ft) in excellent condition that I'd love to own. However, it seems a bit too large to meet my towing requirements.

I had a similar dilemma when I was looking for mine. I wanted one that towed like a 25' but inside was like a 34'. I ended up with a compromise. And I didn't have to deal with 3 additional people, which complicates your situation further.

If I cannot tow this trailer then I'm thinking about financing a 22' International CCD, which I know I can tow. What's everybody's opinion of this trailer? Stylistically, it is very nice and it seems light for the size. I believe it would be sufficient to accommodate my family.

I wouldn't get it in your circumstances, but that's just my perspective.

- Is it easy to obtain new window seals for this trailer?

No, Inland RV has them and some other parts for these units.

- Is it difficult to convert rear twin beds to a queen-sized bed? Can you just locate the parts from Airstream to make the conversion?

I don't advise it because it will lower the resale value. If that's a concern for you.
When I was looking for one, I found a perfect unit, except for twin beds - and I wanted queen. It was within a few hours, basically next door. Too bad, because I ended up driving outside of my region to get exactly what I wanted. I also found a conversion from twins to queen that I didn't really want. I suggest finding the right queen to begin with - they are more rare and desirable anyway.


Now I know that some will swear by the Yugo/Dodge Intrepid is a great tow vehicle,

LOL

ipso_facto 04-14-2003 03:30 PM

I keep encountering the same lesson. You need the right tools for the job. It's really quite simple. Big engine, long wheelbase (full size bed maybe even x-cab), good suspension and other things. Otherwise overheat the tranny or something and get stuck in the middle of nowhere - in the bese case scenario.

I would not put my family, much less others on the road, at risk.

art 04-14-2003 05:07 PM

sorry but I wouldnot tow any rv other than a pop up with the vehicles you own. they are both nice but not right for that job.You need something with more power and longer wheel base .I would never put my family in a questionable position. camping should be fun never potentially dangerous.I have been towing trailers for 25 years?

53flyingcloud 04-14-2003 05:32 PM

Agree
 
1 Attachment(s)
art

I'm in COMPLETE agreement with you~!

https://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/n...ionalequipment

Rather interesting report~!
Do you suppose with the right brakes and, enough leather on the sole it COULD work??
:D
ciao

Pick 04-14-2003 06:16 PM

I can tell you this, having experienced trailer sway on a 31' Airstream, pulled by a 1 ton rated pickup, (9200 GVW) anything less would be suicide. Listen to what these folks here are telling you. Remember the old saying, "If I had only known then, what I know now?" Well you can, right here, right now. We may not tell you what you want to hear, but we will tell you what is right and SAFE.;)

thenewkid64 04-14-2003 06:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I am not sure how this unit came to look like this, but I bet it was either not being towed with a proper setup or a panic manuver was made.:eek:

j54mark 04-14-2003 06:49 PM

While a Tundra would not be my choice for towing a 5,000lb. 31' either, I am not at all sure that it is an unreasonable choice. Tow ratings seem to be in excess of 7,000 lbs., and wheelbase is 128 inches and a bit. Thats longer by a good bit than a full size Chevy standard cab shortbed and less than two inches shorter than a Suburban - which is arguably the most popular tow vehicle for AS of this size.

I'd want to look at the issue much closer than I have done here, but I wouldn't just reject the idea out of hand.

Mark

ipso_facto 04-14-2003 08:22 PM

thenewkid64


This redefines the meaning of "a picture is worth a thousand words".

RoadKingMoe 04-14-2003 09:38 PM

With four people and the right floorplan, you could seat 4 for dinner at the big fold-out table in front of the couch with two chairs on the opposite side. Not all floorplans accomodate two chairs here though. And two skinny people could sleep on the couch.

But if by growing, you mean the family will be more than four people, you probably need the dinette in addition to the fold-out table for dining. It only sleeps shorter people, i.e. kids.

In anything less than a 34', having the dinette compromises wardrobe space.

My thoughts...

takito 07-19-2003 07:49 PM

What about CCD 16ft?
 
I, too, have a eurovan (camper version which can supposedly tow a little over 4000lb.) and thinking about 16 ft. CCD. My wife and I visited a local Airstream dealer and fell in love with the design of CCD. However, I understand that the van can't tow much and only thing that we can tow is probably 16 ft. You think this is too much? I understand that CCD is approx. 3,500 lb loaded, which allows for a little bit of room. However, someone in this thread mentioned that you should tow up to 75% of the allowable weight. That means 3,500 lb is over the limit!!! I would like to join the Airstream community and would like your advise. Thanks!!!:confused:

Stefrobrts 07-19-2003 09:47 PM

Of course it's entirely up to you if you think that is a safe margin. Be sure to consider wheelbase and the condition of your vehicle (if the engine is already tired it won't last long being asked to pull it's maximum recommended weight). You'll find a lot of discussions about tow vehicle selection and wheelbase on the forum.

I was also ready and eager to join the airstream world when someone pointed out to me that the vehicle I already had bought and expected to use to tow, a lifted Bronco, was a poor choice due to suspension setup and wheelbase. I was given differing opinions by different people, everything from 'it'll do fine' to 'don't even try it'. Finally I traded for a full size van. It's comfortable, roomy, doubles as a work van for our business, and pulls the little trailer like it's not even there, even up steep mountains. Best of all it can pull a bigger one someday if we ever decide to move up.

The most important thing is that the trailer is well under it's capacity, and the wheelbase is far more than we need, and we have been driving it all over with confidence. That was worth the switch. I think I'd have been very nervous with the Bronco, not knowing if it was really a good idea to tow with it or not. The peace of mind was worth the switch.

If you investigate it and are comfortable with your choice, then try it. The worst you could have to do is replace the tow vehicle later.

HURST 07-20-2003 04:01 AM

I will have to agree with PICK :cool:

crazylev 07-20-2003 01:32 PM

My wife and I own a '01 VW MV Weekender. We are seriously considering a new Bambi 19' CCD when they become available, or we can fianncially swing it.

Here is what our situation will be:

Right now when we camp, we bring the bare minimum, but enough for us to be comfortable for a trip.

Whether we go for a two or three day trip or one month, we tend to bring: 3- 2 1/2 gal drinking water, five gallons of water in colapseable "cube" for dishes, etc. a couple of lightweight folding chairs, very portable Pyromid charchol BBQ, three burner coleman, Powerbook for DVD's a coleman cooler with our food, and our clothes. We also carry an LL Bean screen tent to escape skeeters. We restock supplies as needed. We certainly could not be packing more than 250# of stuff, plus our combined body weight of 380# (We are working on that though...)

If we had the Bambi, wouldn't it be feasable to fill the water tank with only say 8-10 gallons of water before a trip, which I don't see why , if we are careful, would last a couple of days, and then refill at site as needed? Or even travel with empty tanks, period, and just bring our ussual stuff. The unloaded weight of the AS is 3600# so with our 250# plus 380# people weight and 80# of H20 are we OK.

Something else that we have considered...due to the wife having a real 9-5 job, 95% of all our trips will be within 2-5 hours of Chicago= FLAT travel. We drive at or under the speed limit, and in the right lane. By the time we have another oportunity to do another longer cross-country thing again, it will probably be time to buy a new tow vehicle. I fully intend on going with a weight distributing system and possibly sway control. Have not thought that far yet.

A company called Da'Lan makes a 2" Class 3 receiver. I just had one installed on the van yesterday. 5000# Gross trailer weight, 400 tongue.

Either way it's pretty close...

Jonathan "Looking for validation" Levin

Chas 07-20-2003 02:17 PM

I remember you from a while back, still got the bug eh?

Sounds like you are almost there, a good reciever hitch on the van seemed to be the biggest hurdle and you got it installed. You have set your expectations low, flat land, low speeds, pack light so I would go for it! I had a Eurovan for a while, a 1st generation, and while I wasn't too impressed with the engine, trans, and braking, it handled like a dream. With the VR6 and the 4 wheel discs they have pretty much taken care of that. I wouldn't tow with the A/C on, would recommend a Jordan Ultima controller and a good transmission oil cooler.

Chas

takito 07-20-2003 02:27 PM

Hi all,

Today my wife and I visited a local Airstream dealer again to check out the 16 ft CCD. Sales person told us that they are going to increase price of this little guy by $5,000 next year. Is that true? I don't think we can afford it this year but thinking about purchasing in the next 2 years or so.

I thought AS was already kinda expensive but another $5k for 16ft. That would make it $37k with all of the options that they had.

If $5k increase is true, I would buy it soon.... but I don't usually trust these auto sales kinda guys. Any idea?

thanks,
Takito

Pahaska 07-20-2003 03:37 PM

Partial tanks
 
Quote:

If we had the Bambi, wouldn't it be feasable to fill the water tank with only say 8-10 gallons of water before a trip, which I don't see why , if we are careful, would last a couple of days, and then refill at site as needed? Or even travel with empty tanks, period, and just bring our ussual stuff.
I never travel with more than about 5 gallons of fresh water. Just enough for toilet flushing and hand washing.

Depending where I am going, I may take the collapsible jug in the bed of the truck. I have been known to ask at a service station near my destination to fill my tank from their outside faucet, either by hose or by collapsible jug. I have never been refused.

However
Quote:

The unloaded weight of the AS is 3600# so with our 250# plus 380# people weight and 80# of H20 are we OK.
If you are than close to the rated toing capacity, I thyou will be disappointed in the performance (or lack thereof). Don't forget, the unloaded weight is an estimate based on a pre-production model and doesn't include options.

Porky Pig 07-20-2003 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by takito
Today my wife and I visited a local Airstream dealer again to check out the 16 ft CCD. Sales person told us that they are going to increase price of this little guy by $5,000 next year. Is that true?
He's probably right ... but not that much.:(

I do know that the Retail Base of the 34 Classic increased by $4,083.00 ... and the 30 Classic increased $3,463.00 ... these numbers are 2004 vs. 2003.

This is the annual biggest jump I have seen in awhile. I guess Airstream is making hay while the sun shines.

beachmpk 07-20-2003 05:25 PM

Just to let you know that a 25' Tradewind would be just fine. As you can see at the left, we have a 72 Tradewind. The floor plan is:
Rear Bath,
Double Bed middle with a closet and bureau (slide out drawers behind a set of doors under the window) on the other side and overhead compartments on both sides)
Front couch that converts to double and a fold out table that we frequently seat six at for games.

We have folding stools for the kids but have also used outdoor folding chairs to get really comfortable for those competitive Scrabble games.

We have four kids, but they have their own tent. The youngest still sleeps in the trailer. We leave the rear bed open to the double position when camping. The kids range from 4 to 14 and we are very comfortable. They have even had friends around on rainy days and we were all in the trailer without feeling like sardines.

As far as the floor plans go - I know that these were made with there being a single bed on either side and even bunks that fold down from above in the middle area. This would eliminate the very convenient closet. There could also be a twin bed bunk over the double. There was one for sale on eBay once whinch leads me to believe that it is possible to find one.


My mother has a 1969 Globetrotter (21 feet?). The kids stayed with her without a tent when we had only two kids. That was starting to get a little crowded but it was "doable".

Penguin 07-31-2003 07:32 PM

Those trailer weights
 
Everybody says there's a table on the Airstream site but I can't find it!

It's NOT that airstream.com/faq/weights.pdf -- that link doesn't work.

I have searched all over and can't find weights for older trailers. Does anyone know where I can find them?

thenewkid64 07-31-2003 07:36 PM

Airstream redesigned their site.

Here is the correct link to the weights:

https://www.airstream.com/airstream/p.../weights-1.pdf

Or click HERE

Keep looking!

Penguin 08-01-2003 05:28 AM

THANKS!
 
Thank you Brett! That is just was I was looking for, and I could NOT find it!

I love this forum site. (And we WILL keep looking!)

Connie

53flyingcloud 08-03-2003 07:24 AM

Not an A/S but...
 
Two die as camper flips on I-66

Roger Bianchini

Eyewitnesses describe violently tumbling vehicle.

Two of four Canadian family members traveling westbound in a Ford Expedition on Interstate 66 were killed last Thursday afternoon after the driver lost control of an approximately 27-foot Fleetwood Mallard camper being towed.

The father, Jean Coupal, 40, and his daughter, Liliane, 12, were pronounced dead at the scene. The mother, Danielle, 39, and her son, Jeremy, 14, survived the accident with what were reported to be non-life-threatening injuries.

State police at the scene said the adult female was driving with her husband in the front passenger seat with the couple's children in the back seat. Liliane was thrown from the SUV, which eyewitnesses say tumbled violently after being separated from the trailer, during the accident.

It is believed the family was returning to their home in Quebec when the accident occurred. Maps and personal items lay strewn down the highway in the path of the accident.

Danielle Coupal was transported from the scene by helicopter to Fairfax INOVA Hospital. Her son, diagnosed with less severe injuries at the scene, was initially transported to Warren Memorial Hospital by a Front Royal Company One unit. According to Warren County Fire and Rescue Chief Richard Mabie, Jeremy Coupal was later transferred to Fairfax INOVA Hospital to be close to his mother.

Pittsburgh-area resident Chris Mounts, 20, was also with his parents and sister in the family car traveling westbound on I-66 around 4:30 p.m. on July 24. What he and his family saw transpire on the road in front of them left them shaken as they watched rescue efforts develop over the next 90 minutes and learned there were fatalities.

"The trailer began to fishtail," Mounts, whose father was driving at the time, said. "Then it jackknifed and the trailer went over on its side and skidded and the black SUV or pickup started rolling and went over the bank."

"It happened very quick," Mounts father, who declined further comment, said as he sat next to his son on the guard rail on the right shoulder of the highway in a blazing sun as rescue and recovery work continued.

While a state trooper on the scene said it was unlikely a vehicle the size of a Ford Expedition had rolled that many times, Chris Mounts said it seemed as though the SUV had rolled about 10 times down the highway before tumbling down the right bank where it came to rest upside down some 60 to 70 feet off the highway.

Rescue and fire units from the Front Royal, Linden and North Warren Fire Departments, as well a rescue unit from Marshall, responded to the scene along with Virginia State Police and Warren County Sheriff's Office units.

The accident occurred approximately a mile and a half west of the Linden exit off I-66. Traffic was blocked till shortly after 6 p.m. and backed up an estimated three-plus miles during the rescue efforts and the righting and removal of the trailer from the highway.

This is so sad..


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