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Aerowood 10-11-2006 09:14 AM

'71 Globetrotter Full Monte
 
2 Attachment(s)
I am getting ready to replace the lower corner skins on my 71 globetroter. I was only planning on removing the interior needed to replace these skins but got re-educated on interior panel removel and I am now removing all of the interior skins in order to get the interior crown ends off. I found this corrosion on the aft lower skin. It was caused by a piece of galvinized steel that was used for the storage compartment in the rear bumper. I will be replacing this skin now and replacing the galvinized with aluminum. I also will be replacing all of the stringers that run for and aft between the frames and adding several more. To be honest, I am less then impressed with the quaility of construction on this Airstream. Alot of the stringers have the rivets completly missing the mating flange or no Edge Distance at all, or holes in the radius of the vertical flange. The stringers also do not tie into the frames, and they appear to be cut off of the raw stock with either a hand axe or a meat cleaver. I was very dissapointed that I found this poor craftsmanship on a supposedly high end couch. I will post pictures of what I,m seeing after I get the rest of the interior removed

doorgunner 10-11-2006 09:42 AM

one thing for sure, AS did not use any of us airplane guys to build their stuff!I looked at the new models with the alu interior. what a crying shame the fit of the panels is 3rd grade. At least you won't be leaving the dirt with your AS. You fly wood aircraft? I'm restoring a Loehle P-5151. Tim

Zeppelinium 10-11-2006 09:51 AM

If I get a minute, I'd like to drive up from Palmer Lake and take a look. I've partially removed my interior skins on the Overlander and found the rivets pretty much in the ribs. Only big problem is one rivet was directly over some wiring, so as I drilled it out a few sparks flew, which really put the beak on me.

Zep

Aerowood 10-11-2006 11:20 AM

.
Quote:

Originally Posted by doorgunner
one thing for sure, AS did not use any of us airplane guys to build their stuff!I looked at the new models with the alu interior. what a crying shame the fit of the panels is 3rd grade. At least you won't be leaving the dirt with your AS. You fly wood aircraft? I'm restoring a Loehle P-5151. Tim

The Wood reference of Aerowood means that Woodworking is a hobby of mine and I use this name in other forums. I,m An A&P and a Flight Eng. on a C-130. We also operate a Gulfstream V. I did build a Pitts S2B many years ago and have been involved with other Kit Aircraft as well. The Globetrotter is my current project as I have to change 6 skins now, along with the stringer problems. I,m going to try to bend all the new stringers up today. We have a CNC press brake and it will take longer to set it up then to run the parts. I,m going to make a bunch, so if anyone needs some, I will have them. I,m making 2 styles. Zee's and C channels, 1inch legs and total height of 1.750, .040 thick, 2024-T-3.


Kip

Aerowood 10-11-2006 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
If I get a minute, I'd like to drive up from Palmer Lake and take a look. I've partially removed my interior skins on the Overlander and found the rivets pretty much in the ribs. Only big problem is one rivet was directly over some wiring, so as I drilled it out a few sparks flew, which really put the beak on me.

Zep

Sure any time just let me know when, I,m in and out alot. The trailer is over at my dad's house in Golden.

Kip

Aerowood 10-11-2006 09:41 PM

Po repair
 
3 Attachment(s)
This is a pic of a skin splice done by a PO. Notice that the materail is .032 6061-T6 and that they failed to reinstall stringers. Last 2 pics are of QC issues I mentioned before.

Kip

boatdoc 10-12-2006 03:22 AM

Reply to Aerowood's Skin Corrosion.
 
Hi Aerowood; Please allow me to add my two cents into your dillema. The one important issue in an AS which no one makes a mention of, is a proper polarity of your 110V wiring, along with grounding being eaqually important. First, you should determine reason for the corrosion, before you attempt to replace the affected area of skin. Unless you eliminate the cause of your problem, your repair will only hide the problem temporarily. First make a visit to your electrical supply house and arm yourself with a polarity tester. Cheap, plug in, indicator with three lights. Following are the reasons for doing so; Reverse polarity may mean dumping 110 Volts thru your chassis of your AS. Remember, current always takes the easiest path of ressistance. Best connection is directly thru a copper wire [unless you can afford silver or gold wire]. In case of reverse polarity or weak grounding, current will seek a next best path to return to it's source. If this happens to be your chassis, you loose. If the current is forced to travel thru chassis and not find good clean connection, it will try to bridge next best connection by removing the less noble metal and deposit it on more noble material in attempt to repair that connection. This is called electrolisys. You may not necessarily feel the shock because the current may be very low and the tires isolate the AS from completing path to ground. Partial shorts caused by presence of moisture [which is conductive] will also send current into chassis. Send some current thru two dissimilar metals touching each other, and you got a accelerated corrosion process with the help of electrolisys. You should as well, test your wiring for possible shorts to chassis. [If you are willing to do it, I will provide you with info how to]. Bare exposed wires [not always visable] may send current into chassis in a presence of moisture, which can be very damaging over period of time. Especially in the aera of weak connection or dissimilar metals the stray currents can have a very adverse effect. What about the possibilty of revesed polarity of power supply at the campground? Do you think that it is impossible? You would be surprised. This is exactly why majority of marina's will not allow you to plug in your boat to their supply line, with a homemade cord which may have altered polarity. Water and moisture are very conductive to current, this is why some are not alive to tell the story.
While your problem may be strictly related to dissimilar metals or road salt, it is good to be sure what the cause is. I am sorry for throwing in another monkey wrench into your problem but, unles you do it right the first time the job is not done. Thanks, "Boatdoc":cool:
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Some men do not hessitate to repair the damage, others sit down with coffee and wonder why it happened first.

Aerowood 10-21-2006 08:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatdoc
Hi Aerowood; Please allow me to add my two cents into your dillema. The one important issue in an AS which no one makes a mention of, is a proper polarity of your 110V wiring, along with grounding being eaqually important. First, you should determine reason for the corrosion, before you attempt to replace the affected area of skin. Unless you eliminate the cause of your problem, your repair will only hide the problem temporarily. First make a visit to your electrical supply house and arm yourself with a polarity tester. Cheap, plug in, indicator with three lights. Following are the reasons for doing so; Reverse polarity may mean dumping 110 Volts thru your chassis of your AS. Remember, current always takes the easiest path of ressistance. Best connection is directly thru a copper wire [unless you can afford silver or gold wire]. In case of reverse polarity or weak grounding, current will seek a next best path to return to it's source. If this happens to be your chassis, you loose. If the current is forced to travel thru chassis and not find good clean connection, it will try to bridge next best connection by removing the less noble metal and deposit it on more noble material in attempt to repair that connection. This is called electrolisys. You may not necessarily feel the shock because the current may be very low and the tires isolate the AS from completing path to ground. Partial shorts caused by presence of moisture [which is conductive] will also send current into chassis. Send some current thru two dissimilar metals touching each other, and you got a accelerated corrosion process with the help of electrolisys. You should as well, test your wiring for possible shorts to chassis. [If you are willing to do it, I will provide you with info how to]. Bare exposed wires [not always visable] may send current into chassis in a presence of moisture, which can be very damaging over period of time. Especially in the aera of weak connection or dissimilar metals the stray currents can have a very adverse effect. What about the possibilty of revesed polarity of power supply at the campground? Do you think that it is impossible? You would be surprised. This is exactly why majority of marina's will not allow you to plug in your boat to their supply line, with a homemade cord which may have altered polarity. Water and moisture are very conductive to current, this is why some are not alive to tell the story.
While your problem may be strictly related to dissimilar metals or road salt, it is good to be sure what the cause is. I am sorry for throwing in another monkey wrench into your problem but, unles you do it right the first time the job is not done. Thanks, "Boatdoc":cool:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some men do not hessitate to repair the damage, others sit down with coffee and wonder why it happened first.

I don't think that it was a polarity problem, but if it was it's gone know, because I completly removed all the wiring to do a complete rewire. Yes I do know what I,m doing. I completly wired the weather research bus on our C130. We can supply scientists with 100 amps of 115vac 60 hz single phase, 200 amps of 28vdc. I took the power from the number 4 engine which supplies 60 KVA 115vac 400hz 3 phase. I use phase A to power the 8 frequecy converters, Phase B I run thru 2 100amp transformer rectifiers for the 28vdc and phase C is used for 28vac and 12vdc.

Aerowood 10-21-2006 08:18 PM

7/8ths monty
 
2 Attachment(s)
I finally got the interior completly removed. I will start replacing the stringers and tieing them into all the frames this weekend, before I tackle the new skins. I will also replace the foorboards as skins come off.

boatdoc 10-25-2006 04:20 PM

Hey Aerowood; It sure looks as you are well on the way. Looks great in pic's. That same job is awaiting me, as soon as the boat winterizing season is done with. At the same time, I must wait for arrival of my new Dexter axles. New SS frame is waiting for them as well. My shell is gutted inside except inside skins and floor. First, I intend to make new banana wraps and belly pan. The belly pan edges will be bent over to form a hook to which opposite bend hook on banana wrap will interlock with. Large head 8-32 SS screws will attach the belly pan, no rivets. The wraps will be sealed at final assembly with 3M 4200 under the upper banana skin trim. Inside wiring and plumbing will be next. After that, the shell with the old floor will be placed on the new trailer and brought inside the shop. Next we will strip inside skins and brace the ribs. With roof vents removed, shell will be lifted by inserted pipe with the help of two hoists. New aluminum skinned 5/8 plywood will be used, which at final assembly of the floor will be insulated from frame with 3M 2228 Mastic Tape. Joints between the floor section will be sealed by the same at final installation with applied pressure by using long carpenters clamps. Once the floor is pre fitted and all the plumbing and electrical opening are in a proper place up and sealed, the belly pan will come down. Tracing of frame outlines on the floor sections will help in pre cutting Prodex and gluing them over 1/2' rigid urethane foam strips every 16" to create air barrier between floor and insulation. I will allow extra 2" on all sides to glue Prodex to frame at final assembly. With all connections from inside the belly pan up and above the floor shell will be attached to the frame. From here I should be on a easy street. Let me know what you think I should look out for. Thanks, "Boatdoc"

Aerowood 10-25-2006 10:42 PM

Sounds pretty good. I like the Idea of air space between the bottom of the floor and the insulation. I,m not familiar with the type of 3M sealent you are using but I'm sure you,ve checked it out. I,m using an aircraft sealent called PRC (or Pro Seal) that is used to seal fuel tanks. I've been saving the stuff that the shelf life has expired. The PN is PR1432 B20. I am also going to install plywood splines on the floorboard jionts. It was such a nice weekend last Sun. that I removed the bananna wrap and belly skin, instead of working on the stringers. I'm replacing all the belly skin and reforming the bananna on a small English Wheel that I got my hands on. It appears that the bananna wrap is made of annealed or some other dead soft aluminum. I will be installing nutplates on the frame for reattach of belly skins. ALL new aluminum will be etched, alodined, an Epoxy primed. I'll be using a primer that is also used in the marine industry. I,ve got alot of work to do and it's starting to get cold. We are supposed to get snow tonight. I,m also working outside, My boss won't let me take it into the Hanger. I think this is very narrow minded of him.

boatdoc 10-26-2006 05:45 AM

Hey Aerowood; Boy, your boss sure does not understand your needs. Just a joke. The sealer I have is in a form of a tape 2" wide and 0.65" thick and it is packed in 10' rolls. It is a rubber mastic tape relatively dense an boy does it stick. What I like about it that the shrinkage is very nominal over long periods of time. The corners of banana wrap are available from airstream so I will purchase them, and the straight runs I will form myself. They will be acid etched and neutralized with Alondine. I have a couple of gallons of BRINER paint which was used to paint steam valves. It is a high temp paint of cold set silicone base- heat cured finish. I cannot find any info on it bur the stuff is aw some. We have painted interiors in aluminum boats used in salt water. After 3 years it remains untouched by salt. The airspace between Prodex and the floor improves R value. With the Styrofoam strips glued to the floor where there is no friction or flex involved should hold the Prodex indefinitely. I will do the same thing in the walls of the shell to provide air barrier on both sides of the Prodex. Point your boss to an empty corner in your hangar, and who knows? Thanks, "Boatdoc"

Aerowood 10-26-2006 06:55 AM

I need to replace my axle also, but have decided to wait until after everything is done, weight it, and then make my choice, based on the finished weight. I will be adding a Gray water tank, and be doing a comlpete interior remodel. My wife has not yet told me how I want to do the interior yet, but it looks like some major changes are in the works, she will let me know what I want to do. I think see is trying to figure out how to put a 10 pound ham in a 5 pound can. I've got to rein her back every now and then.

boatdoc 10-26-2006 07:36 AM

Hey Aerowood: Looks as if I am not alone. My wife also has not told me yet how I am going to remodel the interior. Funny how that works, does it not?. "Boatdoc"

Wabbiteer 10-26-2006 08:08 AM

I committed to the jumbo roll of Prodex; I've got gnarly 3M spray automotive foam adhesive and various caulk-tube style adhesives but will use thin western cedar strips for both stand offs and battan strips (attached by screws) as a positive mechanical bond at outside edges: I guess I am saying I won't trust glues to hold anything with the temperature, humidity and vibration extremes in an inaccessible area. It's not like 100's of pieces to wrestle in place so just another small detail.

Hoping for 50's temperatures today in Twin Cities to apply the por-15. Watching y'alls progress takes some sting out of the 35 years of neglect my Airstream presented me with :cool:

Aerowood 10-26-2006 08:27 AM

I ordered some POR-15 a couple of days ago. Not much going to happen for a few days as it is snowing hard out as we speak

LI Pets 10-26-2006 10:16 AM

I've been reel'n off the Prodex insulation, I had to work on the door, so when I had it apart I put in the Prodex, I had to remove a few other interior skins redid them with the Prodex.

The floor underside was stripped of the pink junk, and rather than place the Prodex under I'm opting for placing it on the interior floor, then putting Pergo on top of it. I'm also adding some electric heating strips about 6" wide up the center of the floor and in the bath, I'm using the empty outlet from the removed Univolt.

I also am covering the wheel wells with it. I think there is a fair amount of heat loss there. Any walls that are behind cabinets like under the galley/sink bath cabinets sofa walls and refrig vent are just some of the uses for this Prodex. I've already wrapped the Black water tank with it.

https://www.airforums.com/forum...1&d=1160615752

dmaiden 11-03-2006 10:12 AM

Since this thread is title skin corrosion, I'm putting new bare aluminum skin on the inside of my Flying Cloud. I was considering using stainless steel screws to give it a little different look. Will this cause a corrision problem?

Thanks

Wabbiteer 11-03-2006 11:47 AM

dmaiden - I'd be concerned on the ribs not providing 'bite' for the threads after travel vibrations and hot/cold expansion cycles. If you seriously want a screw install for a million-mile trailer you could use threaded inserts (www.aircraftspruce.com: Rivnuts). About the corrosion, do you know the alloy of the new interior pieces? This topic would make a good seperate post!

Aerowood: I was up till 2am getting 2nd & selective 3rd POR-15 coats on; cold weather doesn't affect the cure but I think might affect its' bite to a small degree via less penetrant action. By the time I was finished it was 38 F and the only problem I had was bubbles after wetting the brush w/ POR-15 solvent to make easier application, and more bubbles again after I thinned the tail end of the 'pot' once it had started thickening from cure. Also I applied the semi-gloss thats not semi-gloss but I purchased from POR-15 outlet so maybe that is why...

Of course the 38 F was accompanied by stead wind that plastered the wet paint w/ alot of debris, even got some sandblasting grit on tongue after I had meticulously swept area clean w/ leaf blower and compressed air (grrr!)

Lipets: I ended up using tremco concrete polyurethane caulk from home depot as a adhesive and a waterstop; I used 2.5" inch strips of prodex as standoffs and am mechanically attaching everything with monel rustproof T-50 staples. I have one layer of stand-offs up now and can't decide on one or two layers (.20 or .40) airspace. Nice pictures; I reinforced the black tank only so far but will drop both tanks next summer... My 'streams pictures on request.

dmaiden 11-03-2006 01:03 PM

Ah, so the aluminum ribs are too soft to hold a screw? Interesting. I don't think I want to start putting in a million rivnuts.

I think it's the T2024 that's been recommended elswhere in this forum.

Thanks for the input.

Zeppelinium 11-03-2006 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmaiden
Ah, so the aluminum ribs are too soft to hold a screw? Interesting. I don't think I want to start putting in a million rivnuts.
.

The horizontal ribs are thin and maybe soft. The vertical ribs are more substantial and will certainly hold a screw--I think from a strength standpoint for a long time. But they will back out, I'm afraid, from vibration.

Zeppelinium 11-03-2006 01:46 PM

LIPETS, thanks for the photo up in post #17!!! My gray tank valve leaks in my Sovereign and I've been meaning to fix it, but I would have removed the banana skin around the outlet if it hadn't been for you. What's the orientation of the photo? Is the tank with the extended arm the black or gray tank? I assume "up" in the foto is "aft" on the trailer, so the bath is to the left and the tank with arm is indeed the black tank?

And what's your take on the fluid level sensors? It appears there's only two wires on the tank with the 'arm', but four wires reconnected into two wires for the other one. I have two sets of wires, each with 2 wires, coming up through a hole in th floor. I can't see how they are connected to the tanks.

Now, how am I going to get to it? I don't want to pull up the Pergo and cut a hole in the floor, and I don't want to have to remove the belly pan. Rock and a hard place, for sure...

Zep

LI Pets 11-03-2006 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
LIPETS, thanks for the photo up in post #17!!! My gray tank valve leaks in my Sovereign and I've been meaning to fix it, but I would have removed the banana skin around the outlet if it hadn't been for you. What's the orientation of the photo? Is the tank with the extended arm the black or gray tank? I assume "up" in the foto is "aft" on the trailer, so the bath is to the left and the tank with arm is indeed the black tank?

And what's your take on the fluid level sensors? It appears there's only two wires on the tank with the 'arm', but four wires reconnected into two wires for the other one. I have two sets of wires, each with 2 wires, coming up through a hole in th floor. I can't see how they are connected to the tanks.

Now, how am I going to get to it? I don't want to pull up the Pergo and cut a hole in the floor, and I don't want to have to remove the belly pan. Rock and a hard place, for sure...

Zep

up is aft correct.

The black tank, is up in the pic, the grey is at the bottom but under the floor.

There are 4 wires on each tank, but four merge to two, then there is a quick disconnect.

The wires come from the sidewall and then go through the floor inside the main frame. It should have dropped through the floor. Into the bannana skin area and through the frame.

But the factory took a shortcut I guess!

I re-routed them throught the hole already in the frame made for the valve handle, I caulked it in with a flap and it all looks good but time will tell.

Aerowood 11-03-2006 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmaiden
Since this thread is title skin corrosion, I'm putting new bare aluminum skin on the inside of my Flying Cloud. I was considering using stainless steel screws to give it a little different look. Will this cause a corrision problem?

Thanks

It would probably not cause corrosion unless the joint got wet. However as stated in the previous posts they will most likely vibrate loose. I plan on attaching my interior skin back on with flush rivets and then splice all the skin together using splice plates and a butt joint. This will be alot of additional work, but this is what my wife says I want to do in order to get the smooth look she says I want. We will then apply some type of paintable wall covering. This will work good for us because we are moving things around and I need to plug alot of holes anyway.

I got the POR-15 today (I had to go to Atlanta for the first part of the week) which I promply dropped a quart. Lid did not come completly of, but it sure made a mess. It cleans up off of shoes, concrete, toolboxs, and many other things with acetone. All I need now is the T-shirt. I hope I still have enough. I have the aft two floorboards ready to remove and I was just waiting for the POR-15. I was going to do this on Sat. but the radiator was leaking on my wifes Jeep when she got home, so now I'll be refocused on that.

LI Pets 11-03-2006 06:35 PM

If you miss a spot on your skin and wait more than 30 minutes or so acetone will not do anything.

You have to wear it off:lol:

Wabbiteer 11-04-2006 07:30 AM

Aerowood - I used a single quart in two sessions and got the following coverage on my 27' Overlander (which used to look as big as a tennis court when I was on my back underneath it)...

3 coats - Hitch & 'A' frame back to ladder frame welds; Axle flange plates inner & outer; Rear bumper frame and BW tank area; every surface touched by belly aluminum; Step frame and mechanisim.... 2 coats - Entire outriggers & outer ladder frame ; FW tank frame; Spars spot coated....

Many places had good asphalt based paint left so they got covered with 3 coats of rustoleum. The POR-15 paint has hustle, it really is easy to use and has alot better coverage than I was imagining it would.

I went for the 4-qt gallon special & have a two quarts of silver and one of gloss black left over that I will probably end up selling on eBay or something...

dmaiden 11-04-2006 08:01 PM

[quote=Aerowood]It would probably not cause corrosion unless the joint got wet. However as stated in the previous posts they will most likely vibrate loose. I plan on attaching my interior skin back on with flush rivets and then splice all the skin together using splice plates and a butt joint.

Could you provide a picture when done? Not sure what you're referring to when you say splice the skin together.

thanks

Aerowood 11-05-2006 02:48 PM

The current method that Airstream uses to attach interior and exterior skins together is called a lap joint. What I plan on doing to the interior skins is to cut either the top or botton skin off so that they donot overlap but actually butt up to one another. In order to attach them together or splice them together will require a splice or doubler riveted to the back sides of both skins making the joint flush. All rivets used will be countersunk (or dimpled skin) solid and blind rivets. Paintable textured wall paper can then be applied without having ridges and pop rivet protusions for a very smooth finish. I am doing this because the interior shin has alot of extra small and large (speaker holes) that need to be repaired and I cannot afford to replace all of the interior skins that have been abused by PO's.

Aerowood 11-07-2006 09:49 PM

floor out
 
3 Attachment(s)
I took the aft two floor panels out this afternoon. These two panels have extensive acid rot from PO battery boil over. Also found rot around lav. Removed the Galvenized portion that caused the skin corrosion. Last but not least started making new floor panels. Still need to clean up frame and apply the POR-15. I have also started my search for a gray water tank. I,m going to put it betwwe the crossmembers aft of the axle. The fresh water tank sets just in front of the axle. Looks like I can get around a 25 gal tank to fit there. The search continues.

LI Pets 11-08-2006 08:13 AM

looks like your well under way to a nice repair

Aerowood 11-17-2006 08:38 PM

update
 
3 Attachment(s)
I got the frame cleaned up and applied POR-15 last weekend. cleaned it on Sat. and painted on Sun. I no sooner got started when it started snowing. I sprayed on the POR-15. It went real well except I think I froze my trailing edge off. Got the two floorboards cut out and I recessed the area that goes over the wheelwell so the floorboard would set flat. I also found the outrigger that is fwd of the rt. wheel well broken off and bent up. Both of the wheel wells were cracked also. I am now ready to reinstall the repaired outrigger and wheel wells. I also made new U channels and all the coroded parts (except skin) that I found bad on the rear. Busy day tomorrow

Aerowood 11-17-2006 08:40 PM

pics
 
1 Attachment(s)
For some reason I cannot upload more then 3 pics

LI Pets 11-17-2006 08:42 PM

nice work, have a fun weekend.

Zeppelinium 11-18-2006 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
For some reason I cannot upload more then 3 pics

Damn nice work! I didn't think you'd be going so fast. You'll have the whole thing done in time for spring camping. Envy envy envy....

Yes, you can upload more than three. After you browse and select the first two or three, upload them. Then just browse again--repeat until you get up to 8 (it's 10, had to look) uploaded. When you go to your paperclip icon to insert the images, you'll see that they are all there.

I don't know why the browsing function stops uploading if you've selected more than 3--maybe there is a total file size limit for each upload. I just deal with it by doing multiples.

Zep

Aerowood 11-18-2006 07:19 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I installed the floor panels today. I now need to put all the U channel down and get the skin clecoed back on

AirstreamGypsy 11-19-2006 10:43 AM

A question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
I installed the floor panels today. I now need to put all the U channel down and get the skin clecoed back on

Is it wise to put the pergo floor in befor the interior walls? If so why?

Aerowood 11-19-2006 06:05 PM

The picture you are seeing is just the the plywood with several coats of gloss poly that I had left over from another project. I had tinted the poly with a light maple stain. The bottom looks just as good except for the knots.

Aerowood 11-27-2006 06:49 AM

update
 
I got the U channels all down (forgot to take camera) and replaced the rear doubler that was corroded so bad. I will start replacing the rear skins with a favorable weather forcast.

doorgunner 11-27-2006 11:38 AM

interior flush panels
 
I've also been considering flush joining interior skins. Was thinking of using Hysol to bond a backing strip on one panel and then flush rivets on the joining panel- fewer rivets. Or possibly nutplates(K-1000) with a finish washer and oval head screw in area's where I might desire an inspection plate or access to elect- etc. Nice Avitar- pretty cool flyin with the doors open. Tim

Aerowood 11-27-2006 12:52 PM

I was also thinking nutplates, but the dimpled style, and then dimpling the skin, but I haven't made up my mind yet. It would be alot of nutplates.. We fly with the back open alot, generally with satilite proof of concept instruments or in this case it was a prototype hurricane bouy that we launched into a lake in Oklahoma.

doorgunner 11-27-2006 04:12 PM

another open door shot
 
Lets see if this works. I tried to PM and Email this to you with no joy. try it here.

Aerowood 02-27-2007 01:55 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Well the weather has improved enough for me to start re-skinning part the Globetrotter. I removed the aft lower skin this morning and will take to work tomorrow to fab a new one.

Aerowood 02-27-2007 01:58 PM

pics didn,t post, will try again. Guess I'll have to try later, got a server to busy message on pic upload

Aerowood 02-27-2007 04:44 PM

3 Attachment(s)
here's the pics that wouldn't post earlier

Aerowood 03-10-2007 04:16 PM

another skin
 
2 Attachment(s)
I got the rear most skin primed on the inside and drilled. Started the replacement of the streetside rear corner skin. Started to get cold and dark out so will finish up this one on my next day off.

Aerowood 03-13-2007 09:02 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I finished up fitting up and drilling the left rear corner skin today. The original was a compound curve skin so I had to do some flanging and shrinking to get everything to fit and line up properly. I also fitted up and drilled the stringers on the rear skin. The right rear skin is going to be a lot easier now that have done one already. I will start the right rear this weekend.

Aerowood 03-23-2007 04:10 PM

Dent Roller
 
6 Attachment(s)
Most of the rear compound curve panels on my globetrotter have many dings and small dents. I was curious if I could remove them without using a hammer and dolly and this is the tool I came up with, Its like half of an English Wheel and in some places I had my daughter's boyfriend Ryan back me up with a bag of lead shot. I then removed the rt rear corner for replacement

enduroryda 03-23-2007 04:42 PM

That is looking really nice...Thanks for taking the time to post all the pics. Can you explain what flanging and shrinking is?? This is exactly what I need to do...although I would be buying the preformed panel I believe...I just am not brave enough yet.

Could you do a panel replacement without removing the interior and just working from the outside or would it be impossible?
Did you put sealant on in between the panels before you did the cleco's or is that something that comes after it's riveted back up?

Sorry so many questions.... More pics more pics!!!! Thanks

Aerowood 03-23-2007 05:12 PM

I'll try to answer your questions one at a time. A flanging tool just bends the edge of a piece of metal over. unlike a brake that will only bend over a straight line a flanging tool will brake the edge over on a curve. I only broke over about 1/2 of the panel on the upper and lower edge at the corner. I then had to shrink that edge in order to roll panel around the corner. The shrinker tool has jaws that grab the metal and compress it, forming the flanged edge around the corner. I also had to shrink the panel when it mates with the aft most panel. The original panels are compound curve panels.

It is very possible to change skin panels without removing the interior, You would just have to use "Olympic" blind type rivets.

Sealent is added to the mating surfaces of two panels just before they are riveted together. I am waiting to rivet things back together untill I have the rt. corner panel fabricated. I still need to fab two pieces of the banana wrap and then I'll have to buy some beer to get one of my co-workers to help me shoot rivets. He said he would only buck for beer. A small price to pay, besides, I think he owes me, for me helping him hang drywall.

tinbender 03-23-2007 07:12 PM

skin corrosion
 
2 Attachment(s)
Yesterday I discovered that the rear center panel and the last frame member that is visible from inside the bumper storage box must be replaced. From anyone who has removed the panel and or floor in this area, I would like to know if the steel piece that runs on the inside at the bottom is a straight run or does it goes under any part of the floor or channel? It's a goner also.

I hope to have a welder take a look at it on Monday and I won't be able to take anything else apart for a clearer view before then.

Thanks, TB

tinbender 03-23-2007 07:18 PM

skin corrosion
 
2 Attachment(s)
I'll try the photos one more time. Having a hard time with the site tonight. Could be my computer???
Thanks

Aerowood 03-23-2007 07:54 PM

the one I removed from my Globetrotter ran under the floor and was made of galvanized Steel. It was a bent piece that ran 3 inches fwd between the frame and sub floor. Mine stooped in width just short of the vertical frames. I replaced mine with .063 2024-T3 aluminum. A picture of the one I removed is on #29 of this post.

tinbender 03-24-2007 05:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Aero that info will help a lot in figuring out what has to be done. I too plan to replace with aluminum. I have already started looking for the metal I need but it looks like I will be running uphill on finding some alclad to do the panel with. It sure would be a good time to be near a base, suppliers for all that are usually easy to come by. Finding supplies is gonna hold up the repair.
Even after all I've read on this forum I was taken back a little and wondered if no one had ever heard of dissimilar metal problems in the '70s. Since I have minimal floor rot, I'm sure that is what caused this.

TB

enduroryda 03-24-2007 06:14 AM

Flanging and shrinking sounds a little out of my league but thanks for the clarification. I have another question for you...Once you drilled out all the rivets how hard was it removing the panel with all the sealant in there and what tools did you use to separate the panels??

Somebody should make a video on step by step panel replacement...this would be so helpful!!

Thanks again!!

Aerowood 03-24-2007 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinbender
Thanks Aero that info will help a lot in figuring out what has to be done. I too plan to replace with aluminum. I have already started looking for the metal I need but it looks like I will be running uphill on finding some alclad to do the panel with. It sure would be a good time to be near a base, suppliers for all that are usually easy to come by. Finding supplies is gonna hold up the repair.
Even after all I've read on this forum I was taken back a little and wondered if no one had ever heard of dissimilar metal problems in the '70s. Since I have minimal floor rot, I'm sure that is what caused this.

TB

I hope you can find the aluminum locally. I did not use .032 when I made the new one on mine, I used .050 because it is what I had. Still 2024-t3, but I used bare instead of Alclad. It will still polish up, but with more efort on my part. I am epoxy primmining all mating surfaces and none visable surfaces, it's the best defense to preventing any future corrosion. Also check for a scrape aluminum dealers in your area, thats where I get some of my sheet and extruded stock.

Aerowood 03-24-2007 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enduroryda
Flanging and shrinking sounds a little out of my league but thanks for the clarification. I have another question for you...Once you drilled out all the rivets how hard was it removing the panel with all the sealant in there and what tools did you use to separate the panels??

Somebody should make a video on step by step panel replacement...this would be so helpful!!

Thanks again!!

After all rivet removal I just used a thin putty knife with the corners sanded round (to prevent gouging). Sealant was minimal between the seams but heavy on the inside fillet seal. The putty knife with a hammer helping it made short work of cutting all the sealant

mikeberish 03-25-2007 09:30 AM

Blind Rivet Technique
 
WOW!!

Aerowood and Boatdoc are my hero's! You are doing some great work.

I recently bought a '67 Tradewind 24' which I thought just needed a "little sprucing up". As I started to remove parts I found a great deal of rust on the frame.

Just aft of the axle mount flange the top and bottom beam of the main frame C-channel is rusted completely through! Arrrrgh! :sad: Boatdoc's observation in another post is painfully true, the engineering at the Airstream plant was painfully lacking.

I was hopinign to just slip a little new plywood under the wall and be using it in a few weeks. Now I am at the point where it looks like I need either major frame repair or to build a new frame.

I have extensive experience as a mechanic and moderate experience as a fabricator (although not much in sheet metal) so I believe I have the skills to effect a first class repair.

I do have a few questions:
1 - I have no experience with bucked rivets and would like to use those as able in this restoration. Can you give me a good reference for a book or preferably a website which details the process of bucking rivets?
2 - Can you tell me the specific tools I need to buy to buck the appropriate rivets? I am assuming a bit for my air hammer and some type of hand held anvil. I checked with my local Snap-On dealer and he had a bit but could not tell me what size rivets it fit.

More questions sure to come!

Thanks
Mike

Aerowood 03-25-2007 12:23 PM

bucking rivets
 
The process is pretty basic in theory and simple to do after some practice. Put the rivet set, which is in the rivet gun, on the rivet head, and the bucking bar on the tail, pull the trigger and push the bar and after the head swells up to form the bucktail let go of the trigger on the rivet gun, simple:blink: . There are some really good aircraft S/M books out there and I will post the names when I find one off my old ones. As far as tools are concerned you will need a 3X rivet gun, 5/32 universal head set, bucking bars, good air drill 2500-2800rpm, cleco's and cleco pliers. That's the basics. I like using these people: Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. Your air hammer will not work properly for shooting rivets, the piston stroke is not fast enough and will cause damage on thin skin. Snap On tools owns ATS (aircraft tools) and your dealer can get the tools you need but there's quite a markup on price. Alot of tools are available on ebay using aircraft tools on the search engine. I hope this helps.

Kip

Aerowood 03-25-2007 12:32 PM

here's a couple of good websites to get you started.

The Art of Sheet Metal Repair - March 2006 Issue - (Aircraft Maintenance Technology)
Aircraft Sheet Metal Books and Videos

mikeberish 03-25-2007 03:17 PM

Rivet size/material
 
Thanks for the info. I'm already through the web page and working on an order from Brown.

I thought it was relatively simple. I imagine it will take a few practice tries to perfect (or at least or at least not completely screw up) the technique.

So do I need to buy 5/16 rivets? Or is that the size of the head and the rivet is smaller? Also, is there a partiuclar alloy of rivet which is best to use? Are there various size bucked rivets used on the AS or just one?

Thanks again for your help. This BB is GREAT!!

Mike

Aerowood 03-25-2007 05:22 PM

The size of the rivet is determined by the diameter of the shank. The stock rivets in your Airstream was a 1/8" diameter with a larger brazier style head. These rivets are no longer available, but a 5/32" dia. universal head is very close. If there is a dimple in the head, that is a rivet with the aluminum alloy of 2117-T4. If there is no dimple then it is 1100 aluminum and very soft. the P/N for the 2117 is MS20470AD5-X and the P/N for the 1100 is MS20470A5-X. X equals the length if the rivets in 16ths with half sizes available. The length of the rivets is determined by the combined total thickness of the pieces being shot together and the diameter of the rivet installed. D always means Diameter. So to find the length needed add the materials thicknesses together such as in airstream skin .032 + .032 = .064 which is almost dead on 1/16 and then add 1.5D for the bucktail. Add it all up .032+.032+.156+.078=.298. .298 divided by .062 equals 4.806 so the rivet length will be a -5

The rivet part number MS20470AD5-X brakes down as follows
MS20- Rivet
470- Rivet head style, Universal protruding head
AD- Rivet alloy, 2117-T4
5-Diameter in 1/32's, 5/32
-X length in 16's with 1/2size longer being .5

Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co.
This is a good source for rivets

Kip

markdoane 03-25-2007 05:57 PM

I hope you don't mind if I jump in with an alternate supplier. I bought all my stuff at Aircraft Tool Supply.

Some of their prices are better, some aren't.

JimGolden 03-25-2007 07:32 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Kip, Don,

Do you guys think I could roll or hammer/dolley this dent out? It stretched the metal. Step ladder blew over and hit it.

Any guidance you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated. This grieved me greatly. Body is nearly perfect other than this.

Thanks!

markdoane 03-25-2007 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdoane
I hope you don't mind if I jump in with an alternate supplier. I bought all my stuff at Aircraft Tool Supply.

Some of their prices are better, some aren't.

Sorry, the link to the rivet page expired. Try Aircraft Tool and drill down to the rivet pages.

Aerowood 03-25-2007 08:32 PM

Dent removal
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm hesitant to bring up this procedure due to the beating I'll probably get by some members stating it's not possible, but here it goes anyway. Most people think that the end caps are made of 2024-T3. I've been working aircraft sheet metal for so long that I can identify alloys and heat treatment just by how the metal works. When I first started working on the skin replacement on my Globetrotter I noticed that the end cap aluminum was quite abit softer then the flat sheets. They are 2024 but I know they are not T3. The skins are most likely stretch formed 2024-0 and any hardening was by cold working as the sheet formed over the die, so the temper is most likely some where in the neighborhood of T1. Knowing this I fabricated the tool below to try and roll out some gouges and dents. On the larger ones I (here comes the naysayers) I heated up the area to semi anneal the aluminum. I then rolled out the dents and gouges with my "new" tool with some areas backed up with a lead shot bag. The aluminum was stretched in some areas and I proceded to shrink the aluminum back using heat and cold water. It worked better then I expected. The End

Kip

Aerowood 03-27-2007 03:58 PM

Rt corner
 
2 Attachment(s)
I got the right rear corner skin drilled up today. Banana wrap is next

Wabbiteer 03-28-2007 08:08 AM

Bananna wrap: I just finished pulling the wood putty and 25 sheetmetal screws some joe had repaired curbside front corner with - will be interested to see how painlessly your battle goes! Seeing the clecos in like that makes my interior rehab minor in comparison, thanks :)

Fyrzowt 03-28-2007 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
I'm hesitant to bring up this procedure due to the beating I'll probably get by some members stating it's not possible, but here it goes anyway. Most people think that the end caps are made of 2024-T3. I've been working aircraft sheet metal for so long that I can identify alloys and heat treatment just by how the metal works. When I first started working on the skin replacement on my Globetrotter I noticed that the end cap aluminum was quite abit softer then the flat sheets. They are 2024 but I know they are not T3. The skins are most likely stretch formed 2024-0 and any hardening was by cold working as the sheet formed over the die, so the temper is most likely some where in the neighborhood of T1. Knowing this I fabricated the tool below to try and roll out some gouges and dents. On the larger ones I (here comes the naysayers) I heated up the area to semi anneal the aluminum. I then rolled out the dents and gouges with my "new" tool with some areas backed up with a lead shot bag. The aluminum was stretched in some areas and I proceded to shrink the aluminum back using heat and cold water. It worked better then I expected. The End

Kip

This was the technique that came to my mind after seeing one of these custom Harley shows. They were forming a new fuel tank using aluminum after annealing it with a rosebud torch. The technique he used was to use acyteline only, no oxygen in the flame. I found that a cool idea (no pun intended) after some bad experiences as a young man with aluminum puddles while trying to heat some aluminum. I'm still "goosey" about heating aluminum after all these years...
Did you use this or some other tecnique?
Dave

Aerowood 03-28-2007 10:09 AM

I just used a propane torch, It gets hot enough to soften it up, but I didn't linger with the torch. I experminated with one of the lower removed skins before I commited to the upper skins. The big gouge I worked out is not perfect but you will have to look for it to find where was.

Aerowood 04-16-2007 06:50 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I straightened the corner bannana wraps and have made repaires on both. I am installing them under the side skins. I drilled them all up, and I am now ready to prime all the new skins and misc. parts. I would like to have everything ready to shoot by this weekend weather permitting. I may have to wait due to my bucker may have to go to Japan this weekend.

Aerowood 04-21-2007 03:58 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hear Ye, Hear Ye, On this day I hereby decree that Zeppelinum is a certified BUCKER. After minimal instruction, Zep bucked all the rivets on the three new aft skins for me. Many thanks Zep, I am now in your debt.

Aerowood 04-21-2007 04:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Before

Aerowood 05-05-2007 05:20 PM

slushed
 
1 Attachment(s)
I removed the potable water tank and all the rest of the fiberglass insulation today. The tank was a real challenge to remove by myself but I finally won. The plywood holding the tank up is a full 1.250 thick and weighed a considerable amount. I am going to replace it with a built up aluminum structure that will weigh a lot less. I got all but five of the elevator bolts removed to replace the flooring. These five bolts are located beneath the forward C channel, so I plan on cutting a large chunk of the floorboard out in order to get a saws-all in between the fwd cross member and floorboard to cut the bolts and the 1/4" pop rivets that go through the complete stack up. Whoever the person is at Airstream that came up with this assembly sequence needs to be cut deep and bled out some. The tank does not look like a 46 gal. tank as I was lead to believe, and I found some numbers on it that make me think it's only a 33 gal. tank. I will have to measure it to find out for sure as this has a bearing on the design of the aluminum structure I plan on replacing the plywood with. I had to stop early today as the weather came in and it started to rain hard and then the hail started. I was relieved that the hail turned out to be nothing but large balls of slush.

Zeppelinium 05-05-2007 10:40 PM

I'm betting the tank is in the 30-35 gallon range. I think that's what all the 18-19' models were equipped with.

Yes, the weather did turn Colorado today. I think we had at least three different [small diameter] hail storms today, and the thunder was very odd--low rumbling and reverberated a long time.

Zep

Aerowood 05-12-2007 06:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I removed all of the forward floorboards today. All came out without to much fuss. I had to cut a fairly large hole in the most forward in order to make space for the saws-all to cut all the hidden bolts and rivets. It was a real mess.

Derek D 05-15-2007 07:36 AM

Aerowood -

In the picture above, what is supporting your shell once the floor is removed. I am nearly to this point on my 72 Overlander, and am trying to plan my next steps.

Aerowood 05-15-2007 11:39 AM

There is a vertical steel plate that is welded to the fwd crossmember and is riveted to the lower "C" channel and skin. Be advised that I had 5 elevator bolts underneath the C channel holding the floor to the frame and then it had 5ea 1/4 steel pop rivets that went thru the whole assembly. I had to cut a large hole in the floorboard in order to get a saws-all in to cut the elevater bolts off between the floorboard and crossmember and then cut the rivets again between the C channel and floorboard. Good Luck

Kip

Aerowood 06-01-2007 03:37 PM

update
 
5 Attachment(s)
I got the fwd half of the frame all cleaned up and applied POR 15. Removed the fwd "C" channel cleaned and epoxy primed. I had to insulate the floor that covers the spare tire well before I put the fwd floorboard down. I used one inch ridged foam insulation and .025 2024-T3 aluminum to cover the foam in the spare tire well. I primed the aluminum with epoxy and then used water based contact adhesive to bond the aluminum and foam together. Sealant is used to adhere the assembly to the frame and seal off the spare tire cavity. I then installed the fwd floorboard with the foam/aluminum panel captured between the A frame and floorboard.

Aerowood 06-08-2007 05:44 PM

busy last couple of days
 
6 Attachment(s)
Removed the step for repair, installed ..025 aluminum over the step well. Cross member over potable water tank had broken welds and bolted it back in place. Installed last two floorboards and new C channel along both sides. Went out to a travel trailer scrap yard this morning and scored a Suburban hot water heater model# SW6DE. I had to remove it from the wreck but I got it for 35.00. It looks brand new, the burner tube is not even scorched.

Zeppelinium 06-09-2007 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
...Went out to a travel trailer scrap yard this morning and scored a Suburban hot water heater model# SW6DE. I had to remove it from the wreck but I got it for 35.00. It looks brand new, the burner tube is not even scorched.

Kip,

Nice work. I gutted the front end of the Safari yesterday and discovered rotten flooring along the shell forward of the door--strange place for a leak, since the floor around the door itself is fine. Guess I'll tackle this problem using your excellent photos.

What scrap yard? Not Cherokee? They are great but I would think they'd know the value of the water heater a little better. I need one, too, did you see other water heaters or space heaters?

Zep

Aerowood 06-09-2007 09:18 AM

I never did know the name of the place as its kind of fly by night, deal only in cash. I think the address is 3575 South Clay street in Englewood. Phone # 303-815-9072. It's at the dead end of South Clay (A few blocks east of Federal) at Hampden (285). They are closing up and looks like they are almost giving everything away at rock bottom prices. The water heater I bought was the newest they had. A lady came in looking for one as I was getting ready to go and asked if I wanted to sell the one I just bought for triple the price. She ended up buying an older Atwood but I didn't catch the price, she seemed pleased though. A lot of stuff there, only one Airstream and it had been cut in half and used to store tanks. I was looking for a stove too but everything they had was a POS. Found the place on Craigslist.

Aerowood 06-23-2007 06:48 PM

more teardown
 
4 Attachment(s)
Worked most of yesterday removing the rt fwd skins and window. Window was removed due to not fitting properly and leaking. I found that the window had already been replaced once and that the window now installed is not as wide as the original leaving the original holes outside the window frame. I will have to double flush these holes and file part of the upper and lower frames to receive the window better. I will also need to reform the window frame somewhat. I also removed the rt fwd skin and the one just in front of the door. Will start fabricating new on Sunday after I get the repairs done to the window

Zeppelinium 06-26-2007 11:33 AM

Hey, what if I brought you a pile of new sheet aluminum? Maybe that would be faster! :D :p :D

I met a guy in Salt Lake last week who replaced his side view windows and in doing so "discovered" that their frame is "flexible." When he first put it in it was obvious that the curve of the frame was not right--too large a radius. The Airstream shop people told him to sequentially "pull it in" to the shell from the edge adjacent to the front flat window. They said the glazing isn't glass, but a plastic that becomes hard after a few days of exposure to UV. I find this to be hard to believe, considering the label in the corner of the "glass."

Anyway, you work continues to amaze! I'll be up later in the week. If your window is still out, I'd like to inspect the joint with the front window. I'm still thinking of removing mine permanently.

Zep

Aerowood 06-26-2007 05:59 PM

Plugging holes
 
8 Attachment(s)
I worked on the rt side window today
First pics show the extra holes.

The third and forth pics show the double counter sunk holes filled with MS20426A4-X rivets.

The fifth pic shows shaving the rivets flush.

The sixth and seventh show the before and after.

The last pic show the removel of the fwd skin. Five hidden pop rivets behind the front window frame

Zeppelinium 06-26-2007 06:02 PM

Kip,

Did you add that stringer on the outboard edge of th window as part of the effort to seal the extra window holes?

I'm curious about shaving the double flush rivets. I assume that you only have to shave the bucked side?

Zep

Aerowood 06-26-2007 06:20 PM

The outbd stringer or vertical frame was already there. I had to shave both sides because I put a very shallow countersink on both sides. I could have used NAS1097 shear head rivets and not have to shave the outside but I did not have them in A's, so the MS20426's had to do. If I had countersunk the skin for the 426's to set flush, the countersink would have greatly increased the hole size.

Aerowood 07-10-2007 05:42 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I'm back at it after installing new hardwood floors in the house. I drilled and fitted up the fwd skin using .050, the fwd rt corner using .032, and the small skin in front or the door using .040. I also replaced the stringers on the small skin in front of the door. A few more holes to pick up, trim up to final size, and priming still needs to be done before I'm ready to shoot them on. I'm pushing to get this done before I have to go to Christmas Island at the end of the month.

Aerowood 09-17-2007 07:33 PM

update
 
5 Attachment(s)
I've been busy this last couple of months and am finally getting back at it. First is a couple of Archery Hunt Camp and then some before and after, fwd banana wrap pictures. I also have the new skins pictured in my last post all primed on the inside and mating surfaces. The banana wrap is also primed on the inside and mating surfaces. I was going to work on it this coming weekend but I found out today that I'm taking the C130 down to Tucson to get it washed after my trip to Christmas Island. I guess I'll just have to wait on installing all the new skins and parts that are ready to go on.

Zeppelinium 09-17-2007 09:48 PM

Welcome back, Kip. Nice banana skins. More later.

Zep

ROBERTSUNRUS 09-17-2007 09:58 PM

:) Hi, what is the purpose of using three different thickneses of aluminum? Or is that the way it was originally built?

Zeppelinium 09-18-2007 05:32 AM

I think you could call Kip a "scrounger." Plus that .050 is just about bullet proof. Maybe he's worried DOORGUNNER might show up from California for real...

Zep

Aerowood 09-18-2007 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
:) Hi, what is the purpose of using three different thickneses of aluminum? Or is that the way it was originally built?

I used the .032 for the corner skins because it is easier to form. I used the .040 for the side skins because it does not distort like the .032 when installing 5/32 solid shank rivets, and I'm using .050 because I can, and because the front and back skins are integral to the shell to frame interface. I,m using .063 for all the new stringers because I plane on using them for the interior component hardpoints. I also plan to attach the frames and stringers together for a more unified shell strusture. I'm aslo am worried I might have to hide bhind the front skin if Doorgunner does comes to Colorado

Zeppelinium 09-18-2007 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
...I'm using .050 because I can, and because the front and back skins are integral to the shell to frame interface. I,m using .063 for all the new stringers because I plane on using them for the interior component hardpoints. I also plan to attach the frames and stringers together for a more unified shell strusture. I'm aslo am worried I might have to hide bhind the front skin if Doorgunner does comes to Colorado

Come on, admit it, you're going to pressurize it for camping on Vail pass...while you play jet engine sound effects loudly.

Zep

Aerowood 09-18-2007 07:19 AM

I was thinking more of Mt Evans, and remember I,m a Herc kinda guy so it would be turbo prop noise

Zeppelinium 09-18-2007 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
I was thinking more of Mt Evans, and remember I,m a Herc kinda guy so it would be turbo prop noise

yeah, but a turbine's a turbine. yours just whines more than it screams. (I hope Kevbo or BamCamper doesn't read this or the thread will be totally hijacked... :p

Zep

ROBERTSUNRUS 09-18-2007 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood
I was thinking more of Mt Evans, and remember I,m a Herc kinda guy so it would be turbo prop noise

:) Hi, you can have Mount Evans. :angry: If I remember correctly, it was a very long narrow up hill drive with very steep slopes on the sides of the road without guard rails. Barely enough room for two cars to pass and the higher up you go the narrower the road gets. I was very nervous, thinking like a mechanic, if I popped a tire or lost my brakes we would go off the side with no stopping until we hit bottom. [16,000 feet] And it would be weeks before someone would find our bodies. This is one of those things where I can say we done it once and will never do it again. The view from the top and the mountain goats wandering around up there was great, but never again.

Aerowood 09-19-2007 02:24 PM

Step
 
1 Attachment(s)
The entry step is all repaired, sand blasted, and in the the booth ready for paint

Aerowood 09-30-2007 07:45 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Well I spent about 5 hours today trying to get the Rt. front corner ready to shoot on. I got the reworked banana wrap all drilled up and just need to cut the lower corner skin off to ED of the lower holes. I also got the lower portion of the front skin all drilled up. I still need to fabricate the banana wrap for the skin in front of the door, I'll try to get that done this week. I also installed the repaired step, it sure is nice having it back in place. Still need to put the anti-skid on it to make it a bit less slippery.

Aerowood 10-05-2007 05:53 PM

Ready to shoot
 
No pics today, I forgot the camera. I had a very productive day today, the rt. fwd skins back to the door and banana wraps are all ready to shoot on. I did shoot the rivets that I could reach though. Tomorrow AM one of my co-workers (Brent) is going to buck for beer. We should have the rest of the rt. front shot on by noon at the latest.

doorgunner 10-05-2007 08:01 PM

No way !
 
Hey guys; I used to run the Marina at Lake Dillon in the early80's, I've "done" Colorado:lol:.
And trust me. I would no way even make an attempt to harm a reworked AS!!
Now for the questions.
Kip;
this week I etched and alondined a prop mount for a prototype airboat.I think the alu was 6061-T6. think.
In the past I've used the same chemicals and the alu turned a real nice soft gold color. That did not happen this time. The previous spinners were 2024. See where I'm going with this. Why the change of color? Chemicals came from the same 2 jugs! Just wondering if type of alu comes into play.
I recall reading on another thread that Aircraft Spruce also sells alodine that will not color the alu. any comments! Kip- Zep- Melody R- Boatdoc ??


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