Airstream Forums

Airstream Forums (https://www.airforums.com/forums/)
-   The Rally Zone (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f47/)
-   -   Rally Etiquette (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f47/rally-etiquette-25048.html)

InsideOut 08-06-2006 09:11 PM

Rally Etiquette
 
Okay, so I need some advice here. I know, I know, nobody likes rules...but, sometimes you gotta have some.

What would Wally (or you) do?

Here's the scenario - You have planned a rally and it is 'sold out' at a limited number of campsites which was published from the get-go. This is primarily because that's all the number of sites the campground would allow you to have for the group. The campground wants the remaining sites for other non-rally travelers, which is totally understood...it's their business, to give us more they would risk turning business away. After the rally "sold out" a waiting list was started, of which 7-8 additional trailers have been added to the rally as people dropped out...which always happens, even up to the last day. Everybody on the waiting list has been allowed to attend due to cancellations.

The rally fee (in addition to the 2-night minimum campsite fee) is $22 per person. This covers: 2 Dinners (including some adult beverages - oh my!!! :brows:), 2 Breakfasts, 1 lunch, decorations and a rally goodie bag which has rally nametags, a customized Open House Sign, a rally magnet, a rally plaque and other goodies and door prizes. Quite the bargin for a 6 day/5 night rally. Oh yeah and kids under 9 are free.

So here's the dilemma...you KNOW there are a couple of people planning on crashing the rally...there always is. They have made their own reservations with the campground directly. The planning committee has always welcomed the public and other campers to the Open House & no cost presentations, and plans on doing the same at this rally.

Now, we all like to think of ourselves as a "the more the merrier" kinda folks...and the committee is made up of very normal, nice, non-rules oriented folks...typical VAC'rs not traditional old-time WBCCI'rs. But if "some" are allowed to attend at no-rally-fee-cost, what would make anybody want to sign up for a rally that has orgainizational and catering expenses per person? What would make anybody want to host a rally if they had to come out of pocket for everything on top of their time to accomodate these rally-crashers??? We all know how much time & effort goes into planning something a large rally. Even the Planning Committee pays for their entire rally fee, "no perks and no profit"...why should a rally-crasher get the rally for free? When a paid rally member shows up for dinner and a party-crasher has basically eaten their meal because there isn't enough to go around, it gets ugly! (This has happened before) And it's usually those involved in the planning that go without.

So, any advice???

Shari :blink:

68 Overlander 08-06-2006 09:28 PM

There is nothing you can do unless you want to be confrontational. We did that totally unintentionally years ago and when we realized we were amonst a rally, we joined the WBCCI and their chapter on the spot and donated money just to prove we were not crashing but I know what you mean. This was long before we knew about the VAC and remember thinking, mayonnaise a lot of Airstreams here this weekend.

TwinkytheKid 08-06-2006 09:32 PM

I might want to come to the campground during your rally (with trailer, of course). Since I have delicate stomache, and since I haven't registered, would you mind if I brought my own supper? If I did you wouldn't have to pay more for food, and I could still join you.
If that won't work, how about making a donation to cover the cost of the food, so you don't get stuck paying for my meal?
I just thought of something else. You know who is coming. Why not have assigned seats with place cards? No name card, no food?

Janis Timlick 08-06-2006 09:36 PM

rally etiquette
 
Welcome the rally-crashers and sell them tickets without the camping fee (since they paid on their own). NO surcharge. Everyone should be willing to pay for food. Do people actually go without food? I always seem to attend things that have way too much food. Someone must be forgetting to throw one in the pot for that unexpected guest. ;)

InsideOut 08-06-2006 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janis Timlick
Welcome the rally-crashers and sell them tickets without the camping fee (since they paid on their own). NO surcharge.

Of course, we wouldn't double charge on the camping fee. But, why not add a surcharge, the planning committee is inconvienenced, why shouldn't the drop-in be? A lot of "events" are say $20 pre-registered/$25 at the door? How is this any different? What incentive would there be to signing up ahead of time? They obviously knew they were coming ahead of time...the campground sells out regularly, so if you don't have a reservation ahead of time, you don't get a site.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Janis Timlick
Everyone should be willing to pay for food. Do people actually go without food? I always seem to attend things that have way too much food. Someone must be forgetting to throw one in the pot for that unexpected guest. ;)

We have actually run out of food at caterered meals...the caterer was serving so it was portion controlled and we had padded the headcount by 10%. No, we didn't forget to through one in for the pot...we threw 10 in! There were several known rally-crashers in attendance, and a couple of planning people went without, as we always eat last.

How much "overhead" is enough to accomodate drop-ins? How much would you be willing to pay? Why penalize the rally attendees by charging extra to cover the extra meals...for the non-planners? At $10 pp for a dinner, we're talking about $120 to cover an extra 10% headcount. So every registered person should have to pay and extra dollar per meal??? I don't think so...

I'm not picking on you Janis, I'm just trying to understand the points you brought up and I've been struggling with for some time now.

Shari :flowers:

uwe 08-06-2006 10:54 PM

If someone tries to crash a Rally, then his/her character can't be that great. It should be understood that expensed privileges are for paying members only.
I would welcome them to socialize, but I would have no problem advising them of the fact that they are not welcome to grab free food. A generous donation on their part would change things, I guess.

InsideOut 08-06-2006 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander
We did that totally unintentionally years ago and when we realized we were amonst a rally, we joined the WBCCI and their chapter on the spot and donated money just to prove we were not crashing but I know what you mean.

I understand if it's by happenstance...what I'm talking about is the intentional crasher. The person who says, I don't want to play by the rules, the rules don't apply to me...or the habitual rally hopper.

I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari :flowers:

Mike Lewis 08-06-2006 11:00 PM

Shari--If what you write in your post is the general concensus of the Unit you should put up signs that state the nature of the Rally. Something like "Private Rally of the Denver WBCCI, No one else allowed! Crashers not welcome!!!!, keep out!!!!, we paid for it, it's ours". !!!!! It seems hypercritial to call your selves normal, nice, non-rules oriented folks who think of themselves as the more the merrier kind", and even bring up such a subject. Perhaps a fence with barbed wire might give them the message without the signs.
Thanks for putting out the Welcome mat----Pieman

flyfshr 08-06-2006 11:01 PM

Gate crashing is always a contriversial matter and there isn't a solution that will please everyone. My opinion is to charge for the events/meals where there has been a fee collected within the rally fee from the registered guests, don't charge the camping fee and add a gate fee, similar to what most of us know as a door charge. It's only fair.

Brad
FF

InsideOut 08-06-2006 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinkytheKid
I might want to come to the campground during your rally (with trailer, of course). Since I have delicate stomache, and since I haven't registered, would you mind if I brought my own supper? If I did you wouldn't have to pay more for food, and I could still join you.
If that won't work, how about making a donation to cover the cost of the food, so you don't get stuck paying for my meal?
I just thought of something else. You know who is coming. Why not have assigned seats with place cards? No name card, no food?

Of course we always try to be accomodating to special needs. As a courtesy, I would hope someone in that circumstance would let the planners know ahead of time so they would know what to expect and plan accordingly.

Shari :flowers:

68 Overlander 08-06-2006 11:11 PM

On the other hand, you could actually encourage it as a membership drive and ask them if they would like to join before the eat. Have the servers ask if they are members. There are great ways to do that. You can turn it into a positive thing.

InsideOut 08-06-2006 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Shari--If what you write in your post is the general concensus of the Unit you should put up signs that state the nature of the Rally. Something like "Private Rally of the Denver WBCCI, No one else allowed! Crashers not welcome!!!!, keep out!!!!, we paid for it, it's ours". !!!!! It seems hypercritial to call your selves normal, nice, non-rules oriented folks who think of themselves as the more the merrier kind", and even bring up such a subject. Perhaps a fence with barbed wire might give them the message without the signs.
Thanks for putting out the Welcome mat----Pieman

I think that's a bit harsh and overstated...

Shari :rolleyes:

Mike Lewis 08-06-2006 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut
I think that's a bit harsh and overstated...

Shari :rolleyes:

Shari----Are you referring to my remarks or yours??? Pieman

InsideOut 08-06-2006 11:19 PM

When large events are planned by a committee, you have varying degrees of opinion. What I am trying to find out is a larger population's opinion and how it is handled in other groups. This is NOT a Denver Unit issue, it's any rally...WBCCI, VAC, Forum, ???

Shari :flowers:

Mike Lewis 08-06-2006 11:26 PM

Sheri---Then do I understand that this is how YOU feel and has nothing to do with the Denver Unit?? If so I apologize to them. However I stand by MY opinion.---Pieman

InsideOut 08-06-2006 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Sheri---Then do I understand that this is how YOU feel and has nothing to do with the Denver Unit?? If so I apologize to them. However I stand by MY opinion.---Pieman

No...YOU couldn't be more WRONG Mike!!! I am "the more the merrier one"...some other planning committee members hold the other "cut them off at the knees" opinions. That's why I'm asking what forum members think...am I the only one that's accomodating???

You and I have obviously never met, or you wouldn't have assumed what you posted.

Shari

68 Overlander 08-06-2006 11:40 PM

That maybe was too harsh but has merit if you are not recruiting. This isn't the Hells Angels, it a bunch of folks that own Airstreams and ther're are bad apples within. You have to reach out while you reach within. Figure 20 % instead of 10 if you feel the vibe. If you promote a rally, why would you not hope others would come out of interest assuming they are interested in joining. If they are rally bashers, ask them to say so and charge them to eat, maybe they will join. It you are trying to break even with the food, make it more restrictive. If it is a closed rally to "current" members only", then you have to say so and wear name tags. How else can it be answered.

Mike Lewis 08-06-2006 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut
No...YOU couldn't be more WRONG Mike!!! I am "the more the merrier one"...some other planning committee members hold the other "cut them off at the knees" opinions. That's why I'm asking what forum members think...am I the only one that's accomodating???

You and I have obviously never met, or you wouldn't have assumed what you posted.

Shari

Shari--my assumption is based on 2 things---You wrote it ----you signed it!!
No where did you say you were writing on behalf of anyone else.--Pieman

68 Overlander 08-06-2006 11:59 PM

I voted "D" on your poll. It's a no brainer Shari.

azflycaster 08-07-2006 12:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My fly fishing club has an outing every month and we don't have any problems like that. We have a pot luck on Saturday afternoon and everyone brings a meal. We always have alot left over. We always have great food and no one is left hungry. If we see a park ranger or a campground host, we invite them to join in. As a matter of fact, my wife and I are hosting a crayfish catching outing this next weekend. Dem sum goooood eats!

Janet H 08-07-2006 12:29 AM

I have planned rallies and had crashers and can sympathize. A catered event is a different kind of critter. Caterers charge by the plate and bring a fixed number of servings - crashing is not cool. Sort of like helping yourself to the gas nozzle after the guy in front of you has finished but before they paid....

We had a fall rally last year and 20 trailers signed up.. Cool - except that 27 showed up. Instead of 40 folks eating we have 64 - big difference. Interestingly - the extra attendees were not very involved in the pre rally arrangements - and didn't understand (or care ) that it was a planned pot luck - most didn't bring a dish - just their plates and forks. There is a difference between a formal rally and an impromptu get together....

So - while I'm on a rant - here's my list of rally etiquette peeves:
  • Pot lucks - a 3 oz package of m&m's is not a dessert dish, bring real food (or a BIG bag) - or ask ahead whats needed. Good pot lucks don't happen by accident.
  • Wine - I happily share and you are welcome to some of mine - BUT... Bring a bottle for the table and if you drink my good merlot - don't leave a bottle of Ripple!
  • Extra vehicles - most campgrounds charge for extra parking - don't expect the rally host to pay for yours!
  • If the rally is a do-it-yourself rally, pitch in. Help with the cooking or cleaning or entertain some ones kids so they can. Pick up your own trash.
  • Bring firewood to contribute.
  • Plan the next event! I like to relax too. I figure about one in twelve rallies is a good ratio....

eikel1we 08-07-2006 12:42 AM

A few years ago we went to a July 4th "picnic on the (estate size) lawn" and fireworks event at an old mansion turned B&B built riverside. Anyway, guests made reservations by paying in advance and admission/meal tickets were mailed to you. At the food serving tent you gave your ticket to a staff person and were given your plate and proceeded through the serving line.

A caterer needs to know, of course, how many persons to plan on in advance of your rally dinner and may not be able to accomodate extras, or at least very many, at the last moment. What is the caterer's policy on unexpected guests bringing their own meal? (Special dietary needs excepted)

IMHO, if people have not registered for the rally, they are technically campers like anyone else at that park whether by coincidene or planned. That would/should/might include handouts/giftbags, etc. as well as a pre-planned CATERED event. (Oh, we're so sorry. If we had only known you were going to be here!!)

I recall there being a couple of Airstreamers coming to a Midwest Rally one year who truly hadn't realized it would be good to let their intentions of coming be known.
They missed out on something(s) everyone registered got - I think a really nice personalized rally sign. Because our group meal was a potluck, there wasn't the problem of a caterer's count .

CaddyGrn 08-07-2006 01:13 AM

What to do...
 
There are several excellent suggestions in this thread!
  • Charge for the food... if it is catered. If it is a potluck, ask folks to bring something or donate $5 (or whatever amount is appropriate)
  • If the event is catered, give tickets to those who have paid and announce to ticket holders that "food is served" and collect the tickets as they bring their plates by. Others can either buy tickets or simply bring their own dinner and join in at a spot at the table.
  • Use for recruitment... good idea!
  • I think it is most important to make folks feel welcome. It is the comraderie and positive feelings of sharing information and stories about Airstreams that the community is all about. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar my Mom always said.:innocent:
I have been to rallies/events where I knew the organizer didn't meet the financial needs because folks didn't show up or flaked out for some reason. I was happy to pitch in a few extra dollars to make it come out right. I had a great time and good company was well worth it to me! Just spread the word a little extra would be appreciated from willing folks... they will probably come through!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis)

Chaplain Kent 08-07-2006 08:00 AM

This thread really speaks for the rally with no meetings, no catered meals, no bakery cakes, no expenses, just friends getting together having a good time at an agreed on time and place.

Midamrail 08-07-2006 08:26 AM

We've had the good fortune to attend several rallies in which Shari has played a key role in organizing, and I think it's important to understand the type of rally of which she is speaking. Having planned both small Airstream rallies and work-related national conferences myself, I have a real appreciation for what goes into the type of rally of which she is speaking.

The kind of rally to which she is referring is often held at a very nice privately-owned campground at which a block of sites must be reserved months in advance (just like hotel rooms for a conference). Penalties arise for cancellations, and that's a risk the rally planners often take on. Caterers must be arranged for, and they have to have absolutely accurate numbers at least two weeks out if not more in rural areas - again, another financial risk. Her rallies feature packed goody bags, personalized trailer signs, extensive information with directions and maps made available far in advance, custom-made souvenirs, and careful parking maps based on trailer length and length of stay. I don't think those taking nasty shots on this thread understand the resources - time and financial - invested by volunteer rally hosts to pull off these national-level rallies.

I think the very, very least we can do as guests at these rallies is register before the deadlines. These hosts are volunteering their time outside their jobs, often use their own credit cards and checks for campground, food, and souvenir deposits, and spend their own money and time in making trips to inspect campgrounds and meet with service providers.

As a host for national-level conferences, our policy has been to have a registration deadline and a substantial penalty added for late registrants. Those registrants have to make their own lodging reservations. At times, we have simply had to tell people "no" if there wouldn't be enough food. It's not fair to those who paid in advance to not have food at functions because of those who came late or unannounced. I think it's certainly not unreasonable to do the same at rallies.

jimmickle 08-07-2006 08:48 AM

I believe that we should welcome rally crashers, at least the first time, and explain the costs for the planned events. If they are unwilling to pay their share, they should not be allowed to participate in the parts of the rally that cost, such as a catered dinner, or tour with admission.

If the rally is like most forums rallies, the only cost is the camping fee, which they would have to pay.

If they show up and they don't have something for the pot luck, help them out by sharing from your larder so they can at least bring something. Normally, there is plenty of food at a pot luck, so a couple of more people won't be a problem.

05ModPod 08-07-2006 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut
I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari :flowers:

Chop them off at their knees.:angry: :angry:

As many agree - there are those who are happening by - and most can tell those type of sincere and honest people!!!!

And then there are those - who are the "users" in all walks of life. See a good thing and have no concience and go about their whole lives like that!

If you were abrupt with them or said get lost - it would not phase them as they take their chance at each opportunity.

It does not just happen at Rallys either. I remember being at a check in desk - and happened to overhear a conversation - "no we don't want to pay $19.00 for full hook ups - we are just stopping in to park and leave first thing in the morning. They were given a number - the next site to ours. They paid nadda - and what was the first thing they did - hook up to water and then hook up their sewer hose. The sad thing about this situation - is that I never said anything to them or to the owners!!! That is what is sad about our society - we the rule goers just will not rock the boat - and yet if we ever find ourselves in a situation - I bet their would be people out their that "do the barking" pretty quick.....The other sad thing - we were embarrased to see that it was a fellow "Countryman"!!!

Another known fact is if these type of people are confronted - they usually back down pretty quick - and if they don't you know that as soon as one person confronts them the rest of your group will be with you in a flash.

It is not fair that one or two should ruin it for many.

So the big answer to your question Shari - is we either live with it - or we do something about it - there is no in between.

Always keeping in mind - the inocent as they truly will be very apologetic and offer up the funds or bring their own meal or wait for the tour to be over so they can join in the socializing....

I still voted D - as the fees should be paid like all others - if they don't then they are not in for the long ride. In cases where pre-head count determined the catered dinner then explain this to the person to bring their own food (or have a back up to run out and pick up the main course) or refund the protion of the Rally fee that relates to the pre-catered portion. Same with the tours if there are not enough tickets or spots then explain that the rally is a first come first serve - or pre-registered.

But for those who are just pulling the chains to begin with sell them a one way ticket back to their trailer.

Mike Lewis 08-07-2006 10:12 AM

Ben------Now I'm really confused!! If I happen onto a group of Airstreamers in a campground how do I know I'm welcome or not? How do I know if this a Member Only Unit Function, or just a group out camping and anyone is welcome? If I'm invited to come join in how do I know it's an official invitation or just a friendly person asking me over? Do I dare introduce myself and end up being tagged a "Rally Crasher" or should I just stay away. I can assure you this Exclusive attitude does little to promote new membership. Perhaps thats what you want anyway, at least it apears that way. I find it interesting that that someone would start a thread complaining of a perceived problem, asking for advice, then become offended when someone expresses theirs, only to backpeddle by saying it's not them complaining, as they are "the more the merrier one". Back to Sheri's original question, "any advice?" I stand by my original response. If your group does not want anyone except those who have pre registered, if walk in's are not welcome, if this is as exclusive as described, then you need to post the event as such. "Private Rally"-"Pre Registered Guest only"-"No Admittance"
Pieman

Jim & Susan 08-07-2006 11:02 AM

Pieman, I would like to respectfully disagree with one thing, if I may, IIRC Shari said that this has been a problem in the past and well could be a problem in the future. That's not a perceived problem it's a real problem.

If you want to know if you can join the function after the fact, so to speak, simply ask. There are certain occasions where accommodations simply can’t be made. In this case, it sounds like the fact that an outside vendor has been contracted to provide a service to the group is limiting the availability of “add-ons”. Additionally, there appears to be limited physical space in the campground. Unfortunately, things like this happen sometimes.

This doesn’t (to me, anyway) sound like an instance where people are being rudely told “this is a members only event”. It honestly sounds like there are actual limitations on the facilities available for the event. As a result, there have to be a few ground rules or the whole thing will degenerate to chaos. Camping is supposed to be a fun event with family and friends, not an exercise in Byzantine like bureaucratic struggles.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim

Chuck 08-07-2006 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Ben------Now I'm really confused!! If I happen onto a group of Airstreamers in a campground how do I know I'm welcome or not?

ask.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
How do I know if this a Member Only Unit Function, or just a group out camping and anyone is welcome?

ask
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
If I'm invited to come join in how do I know it's an official invitation or just a friendly person asking me over?

ask
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Do I dare introduce myself and end up being tagged a "Rally Crasher" or should I just stay away.

ask
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
I can assure you this Exclusive attitude does little to promote new membership.

its not "exclusive". you're perfectly welcome to join the club and sign up for the next rally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Perhaps thats what you want anyway, at least it apears that way.

no it does not. neither does any other pre-arranged function, like a wedding reception or other catered event, where *arrangements* have to be made in advance.
If you'd crash a wedding reception just because you notice that the best man is driving the same make/model car as you...I guess that would be about the same as crashing a function attended by people who own the same make/model camper.

Having said that...I can think of a few occasions when our unit has been rallying, and we've noticed non-member airstreams in the same campground...they usually are sought out and dragged over to the party. :D BUT...we're talking about small rallies with 20 or 30 people "pot-lucking". "hey, no problem, c'mon over, have a beer." Potluck with ~120 people is just unmanageable. Big events like this one don't just happen. arrangements have to be made, months in advance, for very expensive "per-head" kind of stuff when you have a gathering that is this large. Just like any other function. The bigger it is, the more complicated it gets. if that sounds "exclusive" to you...well...you'll just have to wait until you arrange a week long event for 120+ people yourself, and have a bunch of crashers show up, and then see how you feel about it. If you still feel that way, then "God bless America", its a free country. :flowers:

Midamrail 08-07-2006 11:14 AM

Mike,

My point was that it is important in this case to understand the type of rally Shari's talking about and the extent of the preparations, which can make it hard to accommodate last-minute people, particularly in terms of catered meals.

However, at every Airstream rally I've been to or hosted, whether it was a big national event or a local get-together, somebody at the rally has made a point to visit any other Airstream trailer or MH in the campground that's not part of the rally and ask them if they would like to come over and join us. For the functions for which pre-registration is important - notably food, tours, and other functions where head counts really count and where rally fees have gone directly to pay costs - we've had to do no more than to explain those functions are part of the rally fees the attendees have paid, and the new-comers are always perceptive enough to either realize reimbursement is necessary or that those fuctions are for paid rally guests.

Shari's question, if I understand it correctly, is how to deal with those who knowingly "crash" rallies without paying the rally fees and/or come hoping to register on-site. Dealing with that situation effectively has nothing to do with Airstreams or this perceived elitist Airstream attitude - it comes down to just plain courtesy.

But I'm sure Shari would agree that if in the course of a rally she stumbled on another Airstreamer in the campground that she would be the first to go over, shake hands, tell them about the rally and the organization, and invite them to sit with us for happy hour or visit the open house. There is nothing in our posts that echoes "private club" or "private function" or that portrays Airstream functions as elitist and restrictive, and there isn't a one of us that wouldn't recruit and welcome a new member or friend at a rally. It's merely about trying to ensure those who have registered get what they paid for and finding a way to anticipate and deal with those who are planning to attend without pre-registering but are still expecting all the meals and other things for free or for the same rally fee as those who paid months ago in order to help the organizers effectively plan the function. To keep the costs so low for the attendees - nobody's making money here except the campground and the caterer - these things have to be planned down to the minutiae so there's no wasted food or expenses that have to be absorbed. Last-minute crashers expecting to be accommodated really put the crunch on everyone else for those things for which there is a direct and tangible cost, and that's true of every similar function, Airstream or not.

Molly

Stefrobrts 08-07-2006 11:47 AM

I'd say tickets to expensed events is the way to go. It might be inconvenient, but so what if a few folks have to get out of line to go back and get their tickets, and if someone loses theirs, then you might be able to look them up on a sheet, or you could have the ticket taker looking folks up on a sheet and checking them off.

Basically, you can't help but have to be a hardnose when dealing with something like a catered event where you have a limited resource. It's not fair for someone who paid ot not get food because someone else crashed the party, and it's not fair for the hostess to be expected to plan ahead and order extra meals for folks who didn't plan ahead.

I have attended a star party several times where you order your meal ahead, you get tickets, andyou treat them like gold. The meals are catered and if you don't have your ticket, you don't get one. They are 20 miles up in the mountains, and they won't be running back to town to pick up extras for gate crashers. It's not unfriendly, it's just understood, you don't get a catered meal unless you paid for it. Why is that so hard to understand.

Anyone who shows up at a rally unannouced should expect to be welcomed to the campfire, but not to a catered meal. And kudos to Shari for pulling off this event every year. I've been there and I've organized enough little rallys to realize what a huge, huge, HUGE undertaking this is. And anyone who knows Sherri would know she would not turn anyone away from any event in any way if it wasn't absolutely necessary.

59 GlobTro 08-07-2006 11:50 AM

rally-crasher response
 
Hi, Shari, How about something like this:

"Hi (insert names here), wow, you must have made your own park reservations when you heard our rally numbers were maxed! It's great that you came out to socialize with the VAC'rs. Unfortunately, the (insert events here) were all pre-arranged and paid for many weeks ago, but feel free to join us for the happy hour at (time and day)."

(You could even include: "Here's an itinerary of our events, and the things that are highlighted are events during which you can join us. The non-highlighted events are pre-arranged and pre-paid, so they're only for the pre-registered rally attendees.")

And finally, "Be sure to register early for next year's rally so that you can join us for the dinner, etc. It's so much fun to come to the pre-registered activities, and that's why they fill up so fast! It would be great to have you join us for all of the activities next year! Remember, you are welcome to join us during the happy hour this weekend!" :flowers:


Lori

1959 Globetrotter "GlobTro"
1975 Sovereign "Lovey"

jcanavera 08-07-2006 12:14 PM

All good thoughts....Shari, I was wondering when you set your limits this year if this was going to happen. Some random thoughts from my side of the table. I know for some that it's diffcult to reserve far in advance, especally if they want to attend. But you know if I was in that boat and I knew that food and other giveaways were for those who registered, I'd respect that and hope that I could join you all socially at events where attendence doesn't screw things up.

At Moraine View we've had some drop in who I hadn't planned for. In my case we have giveaways that are limited and only those who told me they are coming get them. I usually visit every trailer that comes in and if they haven't signed up, I make them aware of the pot luck and the need to bring a dish if they plan on eating with us.

I make the same assumption that based on campsites, you will know who is part of the group or not. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably have a special flyer made up to give to each of these unannounced attendees. It would welcome them and would detail the events that they are welcome to attend, and the events that are only for those who made reservations. That would be my first attempt to deal with this.

If this doesn't work, future events might require you coming up with some type of ID that folks could wear, or like noted earlier, nothing more than a roll of tickets that could be handed out to the reserved folks. No ticket, no meal.

I used to deal with the company Christmas party years back. We'd have it in a nice banquet or hotel facility that catered to many functions. It was always interesting to note the party crashers who would come into our room and mosey up to the bar to get free drinks. I normally had to toss a few each year. As attendance grew, it just became too big a deal to keep up with, so I started issuing drink tickets. The bar staff were told no ticket, no drink.

Jack

bake315 08-07-2006 12:18 PM

Being one who can't stand it when I see people who unabashedly disregard the rule of etiquette, in letter and spirit, I have to say this - crash my party once, shame on you. Crash my party twice, then shame on me. If you have repeat offenders, who clearly, in Shari's case, were in it for the "freebies", with no regard for tact or courtesy, then after the first occurence, you politely inform them of "how things work at the rally" If they try it again, you stop them cold. These "Dupree's" if you will, make a lifestyle out of this, and have long since stopped feeling guilty about it, assuming they ever did to begin with.

Continuing to validate such boorish behavior and allowing them to take advantage of your initial graciousness, would seem to yield no positive value, and indeed might create animosity within the group of folks who followed the rally guidelines, however informal. But here's a kink in that particular hose - If you make the decision to boot the second-offense freeloaders, you might want to ensure you have an ironclad consensus among those who "paid to play", because there's always someone who doesn't want to be "the bad guy" or thinks they need to feed everyone, no matter how rude and inconsiderate they might be. Just because you want to safeguard the enjoyment of the group members who contributed in money, time and food, doesn't make you a bad person, non-Christian, or whatever, for not rebuffing those who make rally (or party, or wedding) crashing a regular habit, assuming (usually rightly) that people will just roll over "because they don't want to make a scene".

Look, the rules, and the manners and etiquette that so many of us grew up with as children, and were taught to us by parents and grandparents, and whose own parents and grandparents taught them are under a withering attack every day and they are losing. Everything from driving habits to wedding invitations. I especially love the latter when we receive wedding invitations from relatives so distant I've never met them - which include bridal registry information right on the invitation! It's like "Hi! I don't really know you, and don't really expect you to come to my wedding halfway across the country, but we're related, so here's a list of places that have things I want, so you can just buy me something instead!" But I digress.

A while back we formed a small camping club of sorts where we had a potluck on one night during campouts. If we had a new member join us, the standing rule was, first meal is on us, after that, you pitch in. In a situation where there is catering, and a predetermined head count is used to gauge food requirements, if you don't RSVP, then you better be brown-bagging it. I would be furious if I busted my hump making sure everyone had what they needed, only to discover that when my time rolled around, some Johnny-come-lately ne-er do well had loaded up three plates and helped himself, leaving me nothing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be warm, friendly and welcoming to the occasional straggler or potential new group member, but you have to address them with preference weighed toward the existing group, because at the end of the day, the group is there for the group. Otherwise, it may cease to be.

Boondocker 08-07-2006 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcanavera
...... I know for some that it's diffcult to reserve far in advance, especally if they want to attend. But you know if I was in that boat and I knew that food and other giveaways were for those who registered, I'd respect that and hope that I could join you all socially at events where attendence doesn't screw things up.
Jack

Jack has a point about some of us having problems being certain we can attend well ahead of the fact. Case in point, I wasn’t able to commit until the last minute (a week or so before) for Moraine Veiw this year. I appreciated that Jack was able to let me slide into a cancellation spot. Having said that, I would not dreamt of inviting myself to any of the events had there not been a space. I might have gone up and camped and said hi, but the fact that my schedule is bonkers doesn’t mean the world needs to change what it is doing on my account. To me, this isn’t an issue of rules, but one of courteous behavior and showing respect for others. As for food bandits, that is just plain wrong.

bryanl 08-07-2006 12:34 PM

So many factors! And a critical issue because it is used to bash and trash and as a means to impose guilt and obtain free benefit thereby.

A first key is making the distinction between "guest" and "crasher" - a guest is someone who doesn't know the rules but is considerate of the host while a crasher is taking advantage of the beneficence of others. Some crashers are unintentional and need a bit of education. Others are intentional and need discipline, sometimes to the point of enforcing trespass law.

Another key factor is group size and disturbance ratio. Squad and platoon sized groups can be more flexible than company or batallion sized. One or two individuals can often be easily accomodated but when the invasion start to stack up to squad size or better they will have a signicant adverse impact on planning and execution because of how they can impact the venue and resources.

A third key factor is the ticket price and type. For commercial facilities like a space rental campground, a catered meal, or a meeting facility this means monetary ticket with refund policies and other enforcement. For things like a pot luck, it can mean just an appropriate contribution to the event.

In the RV community you can often depend upon and trust people and expect them to be considerate of others. This is one reason why the occasional bad apple leaves such a sour taste. The fact is that any group has norms and expectations and most people can accept this and deal with it. Some people can't and are a problem for everyone. And, despite the harangues about WBCCI, the fact is that nearly all of the WBCCI members are like other RVer's - open and welcoming and friendly. But when it comes to the necessities of a group activity or event, they expect guests or others to be properly considerate of the organization, planning, and restraints that are involved in successful events.

One aspect of planning any group activity or event is discipline. Like insurance, you hope you never need it but when you do you are much better off if you have planned properly for the contingency. A rally planner and an organization need to determine ahead of time how to handle disciplinary matters and they need to make sure that they are not delinquent in taking care of problems, no matter how unpleasant. The discipline plan needs to be considerate of the key factors such I have described. The WBCCI bylaws provide an example of one working solution.

Any group must have standards for behavior. It must know and communicate these standards. It must enforce these standards.
If it does not do so, it will cease to exist as an organization that anyone is proud to join.

Jim Clark 08-07-2006 01:00 PM

I think crashing is rude, but is a fact of life.

To take the confrontation out of the expense parts I would go with a wristband. When you register you receive your wristbands, when it is time for food show the band no band no food. Have a few on hand to offer to the crashers. Tickets are too easy to lose.

My family and I went to Rally to check it out. We where so welcomed and treated so well we joined as affiliate members even though we aren’t members of WBCCI as of yet. At this Rally after breakfast on the first full day all money was collected and accounts settled. I helped prepare breakfast one morning and enjoyed everyone I met. I did not crash the Rally but did ask if I could attend and the Rally will always be a great memory.

Even in an informal rally setting I would assume that one would pay their way. Informal dose not mean free loading.

Jim

bobchevy89 08-07-2006 01:28 PM

I would tell crashers if you want to eat,wait till all paid members have eaten first ,had seconds then they could be invited to have a meal. NO doggy bags. members only allowed to have doggy bags..If they are known rally crashers,EMBERASS them by telling them NO free lunches this rally.....:innocent:

Condoluminum 08-07-2006 01:48 PM

Key Word = Habitual..
 
Shari-

Much empathy and many of messages above touch on general open-ness and welcoming spirit for someone who just happens to be in right place at right time and is invited to join rally as a guest, or for people whose schedule is crazy enough that they must bounce from waiting list to last-minute in or out notices...

I think your initial messages really dealt with struggle about whether to have the "difficult conversation" with the habitual crasher, who somehow feels it is OK to make side reservations, skip the fees and eat the food... I doubt signs or wristbands or paper tickets (all good ways to track who is in and who isn't..) would be as effective as having the confrontational talk... If you're uncomfortable, see if another fellow leader of the group might enjoy having that talk, in private and away from the crowds, to explain that this behavior is not OK and must stop... The habitual crasher is a cheat, and your loyal volunteering and fee-paying members will eventually get as upset as you are over those who abuse the process... I suspect someone on your event planning team would love the opportunity to have a conversation, even if you wouldn't...

John McG

Action 08-07-2006 02:01 PM

I guess I crashed a WBCCI rally. It was close by, my trailer wasn't moveable at the time, however I knew someone was going to be there that I hadn't seen in some time. It was a Friday after work. So I went. And I brought my family. Of four! (Well one was still on a bottle.) We got invited for a meal and I felt a little guilty for eating in an event that I hadn't paid for or donated food. If asked I would have glady paid a fee. Cause I really wasn't there for the food.

I would think that anyone getting a meal would chip in. And if they were playing for the entire event, why would they pay for the meals? I would be hard pressed not to pay for what I took. It doesn't fit in my values.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

maxandgeorgia 08-07-2006 02:19 PM

Mike, re: post #28. It's pretty simple really, to each of your questions. Just ask, nicely. I believe you would receive an explanation that would make you comfortable with joining, or offering to pay a small amount, or whatever seemed appropriate. The issue here seems to me to concern, not the average interested-in-Airstreams passersby, but some ones who have persisted in taking advantage when the opportunity to plan ahead had been out there for some time. This is quite different from your suggested situations. See? We can tell from past readings of threads and posts that this group is a people-friendly, Airstream-promoting group of friends. I think Sheri is attempting to solve a real situation in a most congenial way and is just seeking some input from her forum pals to take back to the discussion. No exclusivity was meant or intended, at least that I can see from this thread. :) ~G

Airstream25 08-07-2006 03:03 PM

Wrist bands as proof of payment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clark
I think crashing is rude, but is a fact of life.

To take the confrontation out of the expense parts I would go with a wristband. When you register you receive your wristbands, when it is time for food show the band no band no food. Tickets are too easy to lose.

Even in an informal rally setting I would assume that one would pay their way. Informal dose not mean free loading.

Jim

This approach sounds good to me. Anyone know where to get suitable wrist bands that have to be destroyed to be removed?

Tarheel 08-07-2006 03:15 PM

We have had this happen many times. We have never been "crashed" we have invited those that we happen to find at a campground or others that showed an interest in the club. Most of the time they would insist on paying for any extra expenses, such as catered meals, and this was accepted. Happy hours and "chewing the fat" was on the house. We try to treat others the way we would want to be treated in a similar situation.

Foiled Again 08-07-2006 03:52 PM

Short-Arm Syndrome
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6921
Chop them off at their knees.:angry: :angry:

The wonderful thing about good rally organizers is that they are ORGANIZED. Some people just aren't - or just don't know any better. And then there are the people whose arms shrink up to their pits whenever the check is presented. They go through life with the attitude that "if you really didn't want me here, you'd tell me."

Of course THEY never learned a sense of good manners or shame in their own homes, and take advantage of yours.

Reaction? You'll be burned up about it for weeks before and weeks after if you say nothing. So SAY SOMETHING. Something like, "We would certainly welcome you NEXT TIME IF YOU REGISTER AND PAY IN ADVANCE."

I'm personally a "last minute Louise" type BUT I expect to pay a premium for being a disorganized type. I got my new A/S less than a week before the Cherry Blossom Rally, and because I had no time to cook, I brought a CASE of Champagne.

Participants - welcome them.
Chronic Moochers - Convince them to find a cold welcome ELSEWHERE.

Paula Ford

Action 08-07-2006 04:23 PM

I am going to agree with Paula and repeat myself. Either way would be acceptable. Show up late (or with out RSVPing) and pay the freight. (Or throw your own party/dinner/slide show. Or send in the RSVP and do it straight up.

As Paula points out the sense of good manners or shame would drive me and I know others it has no bearing.

As to the purpose of the thread Shari, since it will be one or two people that end up being the cop or "bad guy" or the bank. May be put it up to the organizing committee. Such that, do you want a cop or do you want to pay? Have that Q answered in consenses by the committe. Some how the 2nd choice of redistributing the wealth is not my gig. The surcharge route would be totally acceptable in my opinion no matter which side of the reservation I choose to be on.

The rest of the association needs to understand that if they aren't bank rolling someone's meals for a week that someone needs to be the bad guy. And no one likes that guy. However the association needs to back up that guy, cause no one wants to do that job.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

05ModPod 08-07-2006 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Action
The rest of the association needs to understand that if they aren't bank rolling someone's meals for a week that someone needs to be the bad guy. And no one likes that guy. However the association needs to back up that guy, cause no one wants to do that job.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D I'll do it, I'll do it. Just give me a Wally Bull Horn and Laniard and a mini bike - you can guess the rest. A slight dragging around the camp site might empty the pockets of all their change and they will be begging for forgiveness for being so rude and presumptuos as to "crash" in the sense of the real crashers - or at least I think what Shari is getting at the real problem.

And as for the honest to goodness newbies or happen to be there bies (who are NOT the problem as I understand it - the bull horn is for the use of a big huge welcome. The laniard to pretent to be a member for at least a rally until they get to join. And the Mini bike for the fundraiser to raise the extra funds needed to pay for the tickets they will need for the meals and all the other fun expensive stuff.:brows: :brows: :brows:

Rog0525 08-07-2006 05:20 PM

K.i.s.s.
 
If serving catered food, serve it only to those who paid for it. Form a separate “beans & franks” line for non-paying visitors.
Nobody goes away hungry…crashers, freeloaders or future rally candidates.
Identify prepaid guests with tickets, wristbands, hats or whatever. Every prepaid guest kicks in a couple extra bucks to accommodate the known small percentage of freeloaders. Everybody goes home happy, with full tummy and hopefully no bias against "Airstream elitiists".

Stefrobrts 08-07-2006 05:29 PM

That seems like a nice even-handed solution, Rog :)

wkerfoot 08-07-2006 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rog0525
If serving catered food, serve it only to prepaid guests with valid tickets, wristbands or whatever. Form a separate “beans & franks” line for non-paying visitors.
Nobody goes away hungry…crashers, freeloaders or future rally candidates.
Identify prepaid guests with tickets, wristbands, hats or whatever. Every prepaid guest kicks in a couple extra bucks to accommodate the known small percentage of freeloaders. Everybody goes home happy, with full tummy and hopefully no bias against "Airstream elitiists".

Rog,

I have followed this thread with interest, especially the more recent comments. But, why should I, who registered on time and paid my fee, pay for the freeloader? Also, would one Airstream owner call another an Airstream Elitiist? Isn't this a comment which a SOB owner would use toward us?

Bill

sd90mac 08-07-2006 05:45 PM

i can only suggest to order extra food, and if it is a person (or people) who always crash, let them read these posts and learn. No advanced regestration, no meal. Planning is hard enough with out people showing up not counted in the final talley.
We always expect new people who might want to join, and plan for this, but habitual offenders need to learn to use good manners.

Marie:angel:

Rog0525 08-07-2006 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot
Rog,
why should I, who registered on time and paid my fee, pay for the freeloader? Also, would one Airstream owner call another an Airstream Elitiist? Isn't this a comment which a SOB owner would use toward us?
Bill

You pay for freeloaders everyday if you are an American taxpayer. Why should camping be any different?
One Airstream owner might call another an elitist if that person plans an activity which might exclude the other from joining, even with just cause. I'm simply suggesting a compromise which might be viewed as a generous gesture rather than a preclusion.
Consider that someone wanted to join the rally at the last moment and had a legit reason for not registering early. I'd like to see that person welcomed by fellow Airstreamers even if it understandably means they will eat hot dogs rather than lobster.

Mike Lewis 08-07-2006 06:05 PM

Perhaps the title "Rally Crasher" needs to be defined. I would say this is someone deliberately sets out to attend a function with the intent of getting something free. His our Her intention is to decieve for gain, theirs. These of course need to be delt with. But honestly how often does this really happen? In the course of a years functions how many, especially repeat offenders ,have you seen. Comparing a Rally to a Wedding, preparing wrist bands, issuing tickets, just seems like more rules wraped in paranoia. Why put the the rally organizers through more work. Quit worrying about someone who might eat some of your food. If it's obvious this person or persons are really freeloaders just tell them to hit the road. To spend this much energy and draw this much attention to them will only develope an attitude that when anyone walks into you camp they arouse suspicion. After reading many of these responses I'm not so sure but what this has already happened.
Pieman

maxandgeorgia 08-07-2006 06:40 PM

Shari, hope you have developed ideas enough to take back to your rally committee now:) ~G

Alumaholic 08-07-2006 07:00 PM

Quick Fussing...
 
We should welcome any Airstreamer with open arms, especially if they aren't members of WBCCI!
Let them know how much they need to add to the kitty, and tell how happy you are to meet them.

63flyingcloud 08-07-2006 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
To spend this much energy and draw this much attention to them will only develope an attitude that when anyone walks into you camp they arouse suspicion. Pieman

...Or perhaps it will educate the uninitiated about one of the challenges faced by rally organizers, and lead to a solution to the problem...

Kudos for starting this thread, and a hearty thank you to those who choose to shoulder the tremendous burden of organizing rallys for the rest of us (and who regrettably have to deal with the fringe element wackjobs).

2airishuman 08-07-2006 08:35 PM

well this is an interesting thread....

and timely too......

looks like the subject of moooooochers hits close to the bone...

and now, as i'm pointed toward colorado, i wonder...

should i go camping someplace else?

i've never been to a vac rally...
but i did go by the vac happy hour tent in salem...
and i did bring my own beer...and i didn't mooch food..
i did buy a VAC tee shirt...
and would have paid for a hat too...
but they were all 2 small!
the hats, not the people...
i don't even own an old beat up airstream anymore...

i have a newer beat up airstream!

but i really wanted to go to this dcvac event.
initially i was told one must be a member of wbcci AND vac to register or attend.

later i was told one only need be a member of wbcci...
on these very forums...

so i emailed and snail mailed my registration with $$...
website showed slots still open.

toooooooo late 'sorry we are full' i read a few days later...
we will put you on the waiting list...and will hold your check.

"how likely am i to get a spot" i asked...

'can't say' was the reply...nothing more...

perhaps....

'we always have cancellations and you are #3 on the list...so it's a good bet....' or some such thing...

(remember i don't on an old trailer anymore)

(last time i checked, website still declares...'must be a member or wbcci and vac)

so at that moment....just like the folks planning the event

i had to make my plans......
i could not just be on a waiting list...without plans..
otherwise i'd miss making reservations for 100s of other campgrounds...

see,
i wanted to go camping in august,
wanted to go to colorado for mtn biking,
wanted to meet some other airstreamers...as well!

so i called the campground and asked about reservations,
explained i had an airstream but WAS NOT part of the dcvac event.
'don't give me one of their sites i insisted'...
'just anywhere in the park is fine'...
so i made a reservation for several days before AND after the rally...
in other words i'd be in the same park longer than the rally times...

so now i'm going camping in creede!
and there will be airstreams there too!

almost immediately i emailed the dcvac rally folks
to let them know my plans and to take my name off the waiting list...
so someone else, can have my 'can't say' spot....

hey i'm goin' camping now in colorado in august...
and airstreams nearby...
sweet right?

over the next several weeks NO ONE from the dcvac unit contacted me...
to say hi or
hey, now that ya got a camping spot,
would ya like to come to our paid events?
there is food and prizes and party events!
and so on.

till now, till yesterday...
to let me know the meal ticket plan for 'rally-crashers'

i read shari's post here on this topic as sincerely written...

but anyone who has ever camped with or near me knows...
i'm generous with coffee, food, wine, shade, water and conversation...

so IF i don't call tomorrow and CANCEL my reservations...

here is my offer....

all of you dcvac folks, or airstream folks or mtn biking folks...

are welcome....

to eat my food, drink my wine or coffee, share my shade and just visit!

if i still go to crede, come on by, say hi. no name tags allowed!

i'll have more on this subject later...

cheers
2air'

till 08-07-2006 09:05 PM

This almost makes me want to cancel the rally I am "hosting" or "leading" or what every it's called.
Many good points have been brought up and a little salt thrown around too (for some open wonds evidently). I have to go with option f) being hand out a sheet with what the unplanned attendee's can and can not do.

I am sooo happy that I opted for the potluck. :) I love my brats ! :P

Mike Lewis 08-07-2006 09:27 PM

2air--what kind of wine do you serve ??? I hope not the cheap stuff!!
What a great disortation !!!!!!!!----------------pieman

Mike Lewis 08-07-2006 09:30 PM

ted ----i like my brats with little slices made in the sides , keeps them from curling--------------pieman

Mike Lewis 08-07-2006 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klevan
We should welcome any Airstreamer with open arms, especially if they aren't members of WBCCI!
Let them know how much they need to add to the kitty, and tell how happy you are to meet them.

Ken ----------amen brother!!!!-------------pieman

Alumaholic 08-07-2006 09:46 PM

Freeloaders or Friends?...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
Ken ----------amen brother!!!!-------------pieman

Thanks Mike.

Since when did the friends we haven't met yet become freeloaders?

I am going to Creede because my wife and I felt more welcome at last year's Rocky Mountain VAC Rally than we ever felt before or since. I've been bragging about the friendly folks there who really know how to organize a rally. I would personally like to see the RV park full of Airstreamers just coming to take a peek at the wonderful old Airstreams and the nice people who own them. Sure they can't join us for the catered dinner, but I'd love to see them at the less structured events where the could throw some money in the kitty and join the party.

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Here's the scenario - You have planned a rally and it is 'sold out' at a limited number of campsites which was published from the get-go. This is primarily because that's all the number of sites the campground would allow you to have for the group.

After the rally "sold out" a waiting list was started, of which 7-8 additional trailers have been added to the rally as people dropped out...which always happens, even up to the last day. Everybody on the waiting list has been allowed to attend due to cancellations.

So here's the dilemma...you KNOW there are a couple of people planning on crashing the rally...there always is. They have made their own reservations with the campground directly. The planning committee has always welcomed the public and other campers to the Open House & no cost presentations, and plans on doing the same at this rally.

why should a rally-crasher get the rally for free?

So, any advice???

Shari :blink:



well i've now re read this thread...
and agree with mike lewis...
he is exactly correct...

if it's a prepaid, members only sort of thing...
just put up a sign indicating this.

i've got no problem with being given this information that way...

i want to believe the original intention of this thread was sincere,
but now that i've reread the opening post...
well...

it WAS edited several hours later....and after 17 replies in the thread.

hmmmmmm.

i certainly didn't expect anything for free.

if there is a specific person/persons that always do mooch...
why not just speak directly with them?

...i've got a theory
later
2air'

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut
the planning committee is inconvienenced, why shouldn't the drop-in be?

What incentive would there be to signing up ahead of time?

They obviously knew they were coming ahead of time...the campground sells out regularly, so if you don't have a reservation ahead of time, you don't get a site.

We have actually run out of food at caterered meals...

There were several known rally-crashers in attendance, and a couple of planning people went without, as we always eat last.

Why penalize the rally attendees by charging extra to cover the extra meals...for the non-planners?

Shari :flowers:

well so here in is the problem...
someone has 'suffered' in the past, gone with a meal...yadda yadda.

see suffering always comes back....we hear about it, we are made to suffer somehow in return...

does it help?
no

so if you've got 'known rally crashers'....
why not focus on them?
are these numbers multiplying?
do they tell their friends..."lets crash the airstream rally"

please...

and who's a 'non-planner'?
it was my very need to PLAN that lead me to get my own site....

doesn't that make me a 'planner'...?

2air'

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I understand if it's by happenstance...what I'm talking about is the intentional crasher.

The person who says, I don't want to play by the rules, the rules don't apply to me...or the habitual rally hopper.

I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari :flowers:

ok now you're calling 'em hoppers.....i take that personally!

what i find interesting is your keen sense of observation...

how does one start out with the intent to watch who is eating and how much?

interesting really......

2air'

sovereignrwe 08-07-2006 10:29 PM

Very interesting challenge. I have not participated in a Rally. I do not pretend to have any comments worthy of being taken as advice, so they are worth every penny you aren't paying for them. I certainly believe I understand any frustration that exists, and I do not condone the reward of an ungrateful, rude repeat offender.

It is true that every action an Airstreamer does reflects on the Brand and WBCCI. Every contact is a potential Airstream owner and/or WBCCI member, both of which benefit us all.

For those that have organized events before, what is the additional cost per paying trailer for including an additional set(s) of meals in the plan? Depending on the additional cost, there may be worth in over planning to ensure enough food for crashers.

What if we plan for crashers and they don't show, or they do show and pay for the food they consume? Why not build goodwill into each rally? If they offer to pay, let them contribute and use the extra as a donation to a local church or another option to which the group agrees. If crashers don't show and you have too much food, maybe there is an option for using the extra food to do a good deed.

I have noticed that many camping trips have someone in the park that is younger, or a large family, interesting couple, or in some other way someone deserving of kindness or friendliness. Maybe there is someone in the park that is a potential future Airstream owner, and this is your chance to make a positive impression.

Maybe donate extra food to a food shelf. Maybe work with the local church to donate a food basket to a family that is in need, maybe serve a Sunday "Meals on Wheels" to someone's elderly mother or father in need.

I'll share an example of goodwill that I will always remember. My wife and I (newlyweds at the time) were camping in a tent on a hot 4th of July weekend, and a friendly person in the campground shared his extra steak with us. These people welcomed us into their camper and made us feel as though we were worthy of kindness. Who doesn't want to feel that way. We left this campground thinking only about the best in humans. In this world today, that person gave us the gift of a rare mental oasis - hope. This is only one of many camping examples I can offer. I'm sure many of you have stories of your own.

Make no mistake, I agree with the philosophy of...
- Freeload once: "Welcome to the club."
- Freeload twice: "Glad to have you again, since the food is already paid for, are you interested in contributing to our charity donation?" "We'd love to contact you and let you know about our next rally, can we get your mailing or email address?" (of course knowing that the next mailing of rally information will include the cost of participation)
- Freeload a third time: "Great to see you again, the rally fee for this event is $__.__, we hope you'll decide to join us.)

We have so much, and life is too short to live in frustration of freeloading. Maybe there is a way to reframe the situation, and turn it into something that feels good.

summerkid 08-07-2006 10:43 PM

Shari, luv ...

1) Continue to knock on the doors of new Airstreamers with "Please come check us out; the only event I can't invite you to is the catered dinner because that was prepaid"
2) Turn away known freeloaders with "We can no longer accommodate latecomers"
3) Ignore the defenders of freeloaders below
4) Save a space for me at one of your rallies!

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut
I would hope someone in that circumstance would let the planners know ahead of time so they would know what to expect and plan accordingly.

This is NOT a Denver Unit issue, it's any rally...WBCCI, VAC, Forum, ???


Shari :flowers:

well shari i did let the planners know i had a reservation....
BECAUSE i wanted them to know i would be in the park...
not to mooch food.

any time some one declares.......
"this is not a (insert chapter) issue".....

it is exactly a "insert chapter" issue......

come on, you brought it up, it's your unit, so just own up to the issue.
that's not a bad thing really...and it's honest.
you folks aren't stupid...
did you really need a poll?
if so, the unit leadership is in trouble...

now looking at it from another POSITIVE perspective.....

if ya know people are coming who aren't 'official' why not...
-contact them and offer the rally package
-contact them and encourage vac affiliate membership
-contact them and explain the rally cost issues
-contact them and explain what they can or cannot attend?
-contact them period!

i completely understand the limited number of sites given to VAC,

so why not ENCOURAGE folks who are on the waiting list to get their own spots and EXPAND the rally? wouldn't that mean more total airstreamers?

well.....here's why.

the dcvac is on the hook for slots,
they know cancellations will happen,
they want a waiting list to fill the cancellations
so they aren't on the hook for slots anymore...

so who are the REAL DEADBEATS?
the >10% who cancelled?
or the folks who want to come so much, they secure their own site?

now that i think of it,
why isn't your poll about what to do with the "PEOPLE WHO CANCEL"

perhaps they should STILL pay the rally fee...22$ ???
i'll bet it is much easier to spot someone who "cancels" habitually...

i can assure you that had ANYONE with dcvac contacted me and asked...

would you like the 'rally package'....meals, drinks, prizes...for XXamount.

i would have paid for it gladly just to support the local unit...

and i don't even WANT your catered food!

cheers
2air'

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
2air--what kind of wine do you serve ??? I hope not the cheap stuff!!What a great disortation !!!!!!!!----------------pieman

hi pieman.....

when the wine is free,
it is already cheap stuff, right?

cheers
2air'

2airishuman 08-07-2006 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klevan

Since when did the friends we haven't met yet become freeloaders?

I am going to Creede because my wife and I felt more welcome at last year's Rocky Mountain VAC Rally than we ever felt before or since.

I've been bragging about the friendly folks there who really know how to organize a rally.

I would personally like to see the RV park full of Airstreamers just coming to take a peek at the wonderful old Airstreams and the nice people who own them.

Sure they can't join us for the catered dinner, but I'd love to see them at the less structured events where the could throw some money in the kitty and join the party.

well klevan....
you nailed it, this is my view too.

but there may be bigger issues at stake....like CONTROL!

cheers
2air'

Pahaska 08-07-2006 10:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman
how does one start out with the intent to watch who is eating and how much?

interesting really......

2air'

Believe me, if you are responsible for feeding a group, whether it be a potluck, a host-prepared meal, or a catered meal, you notice. Lots of other folks will notice as well.

Personally, I like the idea of bracelets, just like a music festival. Pre-registered attendees get non-removable bracelets. If food supplies warrent, non-pre-registered guests can pay for a bracelet on the spot. If food supplies are limited, late comers are simply out of luck.

I am going to suggest the bracelet idea for the 2007 Texas Vintage Rally. With an expected 100 rigs and at lest one catered meal, we will have to set up some controls. We certainly will not recognize everyone by sight. I fully expect that some non-pre-registered folks will appear.

2airishuman 08-07-2006 11:03 PM

i'm still laughing at the poll options...
seems you need a 'rally sheriff-bad guy'

hey instead of the meal fee,
how about just hire me,
i saw great examples

so i'm trained now...
2 be a great bad guy...
it's easy with the wbcci training program
offered at this years international !
treating people badly was an art form.
and i'm a quick learner.

cheers
2air'

InsideOut 08-07-2006 11:15 PM

the CORRECT answer is "D"
 
Long before I started this thread, the planning committee discussed the scenarios that have played out at past rallies and potential for new situations to arise. Many of the comments that have surfaced here are the same ones that have been discussed.

It was decided after much discussion, just as polarized as we've seen here over the last 26 hours, that the best way to handle it is to offer meal ticket name badges on a first come, first served basis to those wanting to join in and participate fully. They are limited to the number of "extra" catered meals we are willing and our budget is able to handle.

Thank you all for your input.

Shari :flowers:


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.