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-   -   Lincoln Navigator towing International 27FB? (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/lincoln-navigator-towing-international-27fb-222085.html)

dukecome 04-25-2021 04:47 PM

Lincoln Navigator towing International 27FB?
 
I am a totally fresh newbie camper, and my International 27FB will be delivered next month or two. My plan is to tow it with Lincoln Navigator (8300lbs towing, 1677lbs payload), and also to seat 3 toddlers and 3 adults in the SUV.

I was totally sold by the rep at the dealership that the Lincoln Navigator would tow the trailer easily, until I read about payload, tongue weight calculations. With GVWR of 7600lbs, and hitch weight of 800lbs on the trailer, is it a safe towing combination?
Happy weekend!

Pappy3393 04-25-2021 04:52 PM

Did you get the payload weights from the sticker on your door or from the sales brochure?

az-streamer 04-25-2021 05:13 PM

You might also want to check out the Ford expedition with HD tow package. The capacity is 9300 lbs. On some forums, users say the Ford gas a nicer ride. I pull our 25' FC with a 2020 Ford expedition and it's great.

Daquenzer 04-25-2021 06:11 PM

You are undersized. The tongue weight on a 27FB will easily hit 1000lbs when you start loading things up. That’s because most of the storage is under the bed. Some have said it will get to 1200lbs. My rear bedroom 28’ has a tongue weight of about 960lbs. But when I load things up it doesn’t change because my bedroom takes up most of the storage.

If you have a family, etc. I would get a 3/4 ton of some type at minium. It’s just my wife and me, and we get by just fine with a 1/2 ton. But we pack light, and you are going to take far more things along with that many people. You won’t need a diesel. But a 3/4 ton gas would have nearly double the payload, and would easily pull your 27FB. You might also consider a 1 ton van, like the Chevy express van, with that family of yours. The downside of the van is you can’t get 4WD

Dennis C 04-25-2021 07:05 PM

Youíve got to run the numbers and see what works for you, but it sounds like youíre going to exceed some important limits with that combination.

dukecome 04-26-2021 02:12 AM

Thanks for Pappy’s reminding, just check the door sticker.
Looks like the actual payload is only 1427lbs(combined weight of occupant and cargo)

Wayne&Sam 04-26-2021 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az-streamer (Post 2487382)
You might also want to check out the Ford expedition with HD tow package. The capacity is 9300 lbs. On some forums, users say the Ford gas a nicer ride. I pull our 25' FC with a 2020 Ford expedition and it's great.

Ditto.

Shiny16 04-26-2021 05:40 AM

Are there 3/4 tons that can seat 3 adults and 3 toddlers? Considering car seats for the toddlers.

WhatNext 04-26-2021 06:14 AM

I have a RAM 2500 crew cab, seats 6 but one of the kid's seats will have to go in the front/middle. Not the desirable.

s1000pre 04-26-2021 06:19 AM

I see you on a future path similar to ours... we had our 2020 International for eight months. On the way back home from our last big trip we traded it in on a 2021 Flying Cloud Bunk. Breaking the dinette down at bedtime gets old! It isn’t necessarily the process, it loss of space... where do you go when the kids go to bed?

DCPAS 04-26-2021 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukecome (Post 2487370)
I am a totally fresh newbie camper, and my International 27FB will be delivered next month or two. My plan is to tow it with Lincoln Navigator (8300lbs towing, 1677lbs payload), and also to seat 3 toddlers and 3 adults in the SUV.

I was totally sold by the rep at the dealership that the Lincoln Navigator would tow the trailer easily, until I read about payload, tongue weight calculations. With GVWR of 7600lbs, and hitch weight of 800lbs on the trailer, is it a safe towing combination?
Happy weekend!

I tow a FC 25RB with a 2018 Navigator that has 1,552 payload. It works well, but we are empty nesters with only a couple of smaller dogs as passengers. I am careful about what we put in the truck. I have weighed where we came out and am happy to send you my weigh spreadsheet. Bottom line is that I would get a bigger truck if I were you.

XCountry 04-26-2021 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukecome (Post 2487370)
I was totally sold by the rep at the dealership that the Lincoln Navigator would tow the trailer easily, until I read about payload, tongue weight calculations. With GVWR of 7600lbs, and hitch weight of 800lbs on the trailer, is it a safe towing combination?

Sadly, you have run afoul of the fact that most car dealers are both incompetent and liars. They will say whatever they need to to make a sale.

Thatís not going to be a safe combination, I wouldíve concerned with two adults, much less three and everything kids need.

Did you buy the SUV? If so I would attempt to return it by having a serious discussion with the manager, and if necessary contacting Ford about the conduct of the dealership and your salesperson.

You *might* be able to do with with the Ford Expedition (not Max) with the max tow package.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/20Towing_Ford_Expedition_Oct15.pdf

kscherzi 04-26-2021 08:06 AM

I'm not prepared to write the Navigator off quite yet. But some weight checking is in order.

I suggest hitching the trailer up to the Navigator with a proper weight distribution hitch, load everyone into the Navigator and head to a CAT scale. Google it. Maybe place about 40lbs of weight under the bed to simulate camping. What's most important is that the Navigator's rear and front axle loads are below the max rating as listed on the other drivers side door jam sticker. If you are concerned, have the family follow you in another car until you know the facts of the situation.

I towed a 27FB with a 2003 Expedition for years and kept it under its axle ratings. Yes, you'll have to watch your luggage placement. Avoid putting much stuff behind the rear seat of the Navigator and avoid loading too much heavy stuff under the bed.

kdfulsome54 04-26-2021 09:41 AM

We have a 28ft rear bed. Tongue weight 1060. We have a 2018 Silverado 1500 4x4 crewcab with the max tow package. Payload capacity is 2040. With a camper shell, two adults and a small dog, I am at about 1700lbs of that 2040lbs. Have to be very careful about any extras.

uncle_bob 04-26-2021 10:58 AM

Hi

Assuming you are not going to "hot rod" the Lincoln, you are pretty much stuck with the numbers on the door post. First step (as noted above) is to verify those numbers. Often people grab numbers from sales brochures. Those numbers often are high.

Next understand that "will not break the vehicle" is not the same as safe, comfortable, or "reasonable performance". There are issues like sway and stability that get into the mix. They are not covered by all these magic numbers.

A reasonable starting point is to assume the trailer will be fully loaded. With an AS and a family, that's often how it works out. Also assume the tongue weight will be in the 1,000 to 1,200 pound range. Indeed the numbers might be a little less. You only will know after you have been camping a while and really see what you have along.

Next up toss in the weight of the weight distributing / anti-sway hitch of your choice. That could easily add several hundred pounds. Some of that weight adds to tongue weight.

Read up on what the "payload" number on your sticker actually includes and/or does not include. Are passengers in that number? Are those passengers all supposed to weigh 125 pounds? This only impacts the "payload" and does not impact the axle weights.

You need to stay under several numbers:

1) Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating. This is the combined weight of trailer plus TV and everything that is in both of them.

2) Front and rear max axle loads.

3) Receiver (what the hitch goes into) max load.

4) Vehicle payload. (both on trailer and TV).

Ideally you would like to hit a target at least 20% below most of these numbers. That allows you some "room" to load a bit differently on this or that trip. It also allows you to adjust loading to improve stability on the road ( = kill sway).

Yes, there is more to it that this. Are you traveling a lot in the mountains? If so at what altitude? Running above 10,000 feet means operation with significantly less horsepower out of a normal engine. There are lots of other little corner cases like that ....

As you have already found out, most (but not all) vehicle salesmen really do not understand all this stuff. They are paid to close a deal and close it quickly. Digging into all this numbers stuff is not "quick" .... You will have to do the research on your own.

My thinking is that you are right at the divide between an F-150 and an F-250 ....

Bob

brick1 04-26-2021 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daquenzer (Post 2487403)
You are undersized. The tongue weight on a 27FB will easily hit 1000lbs when you start loading things up. Thatís because most of the storage is under the bed. Some have said it will get to 1200lbs. My rear bedroom 28í has a tongue weight of about 960lbs. But when I load things up it doesnít change because my bedroom takes up most of the storage.

If you have a family, etc. I would get a 3/4 ton of some type at minium. Itís just my wife and me, and we get by just fine with a 1/2 ton. But we pack light, and you are going to take far more things along with that many people. You wonít need a diesel. But a 3/4 ton gas would have nearly double the payload, and would easily pull your 27FB. You might also consider a 1 ton van, like the Chevy express van, with that family of yours. The downside of the van is you canít get 4WD


My 2018 Serenity 28 has a verified tongue weight of 963 lbs. my previous TV, a 2016 Expedition SWB only had 1319 lbs of payload, which combined with factory 22 inch wheels was a poor TV. It quickly became an F250 diesel.

DCPAS 04-26-2021 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2487634)
Are you traveling a lot in the mountains? If so at what altitude? Running above 10,000 feet means operation with significantly less horsepower out of a normal engine.

This is not a factor with the Navigator engine. Turbos. It makes more hp and torque than Ford's Godzilla engine.

I believe that hitch weight might not count as payload (essentially it is factored in in calculating payload), at least if you believe eTrailer.

The receiver on the Navigator is only rated for 950lbs. Need to take that into account.

pteck 04-26-2021 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukecome (Post 2487370)
I am a totally fresh newbie camper, and my International 27FB will be delivered next month or two. My plan is to tow it with Lincoln Navigator (8300lbs towing, 1677lbs payload), and also to seat 3 toddlers and 3 adults in the SUV.

I was totally sold by the rep at the dealership that the Lincoln Navigator would tow the trailer easily, until I read about payload, tongue weight calculations. With GVWR of 7600lbs, and hitch weight of 800lbs on the trailer, is it a safe towing combination?
Happy weekend!

Mind taking a picture of the door sticker that lists the various specs? Your navi likely has a GAWR Front: 3625lbs and Rear: 4380lbs

I wouldn't be so quick as other to judge this a not a good pairing. If anything, I expect it to perform rather steller once dialed in based on friend that has the same rig towing a larger SOB.

I likewise tow a 27FB with a full size SUV that has very very similar numbers. I'm an SUV guy. I don't care for trucks as I sometimes travel with 6 and like the interior space and luxury of a larger SUV.

LNBright 04-26-2021 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukecome (Post 2487487)
Thanks for Pappyís reminding, just check the door sticker.
Looks like the actual payload is only 1427lbs(combined weight of occupant and cargo)

There's your real limiting factor. Passengers plus tongue weight of a 27' will easily exceed that.

You'll need something w/ more payload, IMHO.

mefly2 04-26-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukecome (Post 2487370)
I am a totally fresh newbie camper, and my International 27FB will be delivered next month or two. My plan is to tow it with Lincoln Navigator (8300lbs towing, 1677lbs payload), and also to seat 3 toddlers and 3 adults in the SUV.

I was totally sold by the rep at the dealership that the Lincoln Navigator would tow the trailer easily, until I read about payload, tongue weight calculations. With GVWR of 7600lbs, and hitch weight of 800lbs on the trailer, is it a safe towing combination?
Happy weekend!

We have a 25' FBQ that scared the poo out of us on mountainous wet roads when we pulled it with a Yukon ... 2017 NO tow pkg. Now we are confident with either our 2019 1/2 Ton Chev 1500 Silverado with tow pkg - or our 2020 Expedition (cheaper than the Navi)... non max AND with HD tow. We commute in our vehicles more than we tow; hence, the 1/2 Ton capacity ... and, we are glad that we no longer have a diesel 3/4 ton - although the argument can be made for a 3/4 T capacity / safety and diesel exhaust braking.

Something not mentioned so far is the exposed frontal area of the trailer behind your Navi (or, an F150)...
- check your owner's manual ... another whole thread !


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