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-   -   Base Curb Weight, Tongue Weight, Etc. F150 Limited (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f463/base-curb-weight-tongue-weight-etc-f150-limited-220514.html)

s1000pre 03-18-2021 10:09 AM

Base Curb Weight, Tongue Weight, Etc. F150 Limited
 
Please don't assume the question: Read in it's entirety before responding (please)

Vehicle: F150 Limited
Let me start with... It's a lease...Im potentially stuck with the truck for another year.
Door sticker reads: Combined weight should never exceed (576 kg or 1271 lbs.)

Supposedly, the tires are responsible for the lower payload rating.
My Pirelli Scorpion Zero 275/50R22 All season's sidewall reads: 2,469 lbs. max load. They are 100 or so pounds less than the typical tire you find on an F150.
Let's pretend the vehicle is magically balanced perfectly 50/50. The tires should be able to carry a total of 9,876 (lbs.2,469x4=9,876 lbs.) Correct?

My question: When comparing a fully loaded F150 Platinum, 5.5 bed, 3.5 ecoboost, Panoramic... mirror image of my Limited other than wheels/tires. Why is the Platinum's payload 200-250 lbs. greater than the Limited.
Both of the trucks curb weight is in the 5k-5.6k range. Well below the 9,876lbs. the Pirelli's can support. We are talking about a difference of 4,276 lbs....almost two trucks. Even if the payload was 2k lbs., your still 2,276lbs away from the tire's maximum. So why are the tires the culprit? Is someone being ultra conservative?

kscherzi 03-18-2021 10:30 AM

Maybe the tires and wheels on the limited are 200 hundred pounds heavier than those used on the other models?

SSquared 03-18-2021 11:32 AM

I doubt the tires are the reason. Maybe the wheels?


1271 pounds of payload is not surprising on a high trim level F-150. Have you actually seen a door sticker on a Platinum that is a lot higher, and where you have seen the window sticker/build sheet list of options?

djb75 03-18-2021 12:39 PM

I don't know what year(s) you're comparing, but based on the Ford web site, the 2021 Limited's curb weight is about 250 to 270 lbs heavier than the 2021 Platinum. So if the axles and tires have the same ratings, I would not be surprised to see the difference come off of the Limited's payload rating.

jcanavera 03-18-2021 12:57 PM

I've often contacted the corporate office of manufacturers and asked for a copy of their trailering guides for their trucks. Those go into much more detail regarding the trucks that zero in on axle ratios, engines, hitch ratings etc. In many cases the auto dealers may not have a copy of the guides or know anything about them. I got some from GM and from Ford when I was initially comparing tow vehicles that I was planning on buying. Some dealers never heard of these which is why I call the corporate entities and got those mailed to me. Got me educated really quick and helped greatly in ordering the best vehicle for my trailer.

Jack

GammaDog 03-19-2021 10:48 AM

You are trying to account for a 200 lb difference in payload, but as you say, there is up to a 600 pound difference (5k-5.6k) in base (curb) weight.

I’m not a Ford guy, but among Tundras, higher trim levels have higher curb weights and lower payload. Maybe the same for F150?

If you get precise curb weights I’m guessing the GVWR for the two trims is the same and the payload difference is because the goodies on the Limited weigh more.

emelaich01 03-19-2021 11:32 AM

Higher Trim Levels = Lower Payload
 
Hi-end seats, consoles, carpeting, suspension components and especially, the sound-deadening materials used on cars and trucks translate to reduced payload.

Sorta OT: I'm surprised that AS doesn't supply 'real world' numbers for their weights. I read in these and other forums that with batteries and a couple of full LP tanks, the tongue weights come in a 150+ lbs more than that published.

So if tongue weight shouldn't exceed 10 - 15% of the trailer weight--industry standards--then the only thing you can do to lighten the load at the hitch is to dump a load of stuff in the rear, behind the axles. Or do we count the reduction with a proper WD setup?

Just curious...

Baron 8TB 03-19-2021 11:43 AM

F150 payload
 
Good morning; first post.

We are getting closer to being Airstreamers, and I've got a spreadsheet that we use as we're looking. Our TV is a 2017 F150 Platinum with the Max Tow package and virtually every option available. From my door sticker, payload is 1549 pounds. Fully loaded (TV only) for a trip, we weighed in at 6100 pounds total, against a 7000 pound total weight rating for the F150.

When shopping, I noticed that the Platinums consistently had higher payloads than the Limited; not sure why that was, but in our case we're limited to 900 pounds of additional payload based on the CAT scale readings. YMMV.

Hope that helps in the comparison,

Greg

s1000pre 03-19-2021 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron 8TB (Post 2473515)
Good morning; first post.

We are getting closer to being Airstreamers, and I've got a spreadsheet that we use as we're looking. Our TV is a 2017 F150 Platinum with the Max Tow package and virtually every option available. From my door sticker, payload is 1549 pounds. Fully loaded (TV only) for a trip, we weighed in at 6100 pounds total, against a 7000 pound total weight rating for the F150.

When shopping, I noticed that the Platinums consistently had higher payloads than the Limited; not sure why that was, but in our case we're limited to 900 pounds of additional payload based on the CAT scale readings. YMMV.

Hope that helps in the comparison,

Greg

Greg,

My limited is 6750lbs not 7,000. Max trailer tow isnt even an option for the Limited. Max trailer tow includes the Heavy-Duty Payload Package which gives you an additional 250lbs. For what its worth, I inadvertently drove 7,000 miles all over the country towing my 25FB. 837 on the tongue (they musty have increased this, my notes from this past fall reflect 765lbs.) After reading Fords payload calculator, I thought I was within spec. I typically drive at a minimum the speed limit. I had horrible 20-35mph crosswinds most of it. I could feel the wind, which is why I invested in a Hensley. Other than looking at my door sticker, I never would have known I was over. in additon to 415 lbs. of occupants, I had 100lbs. in the box as well. Im just going to chalk that one up to Oops! and find a new tow vehicle.

dnsapp 03-19-2021 03:20 PM

There is a difference in the 2 wheel drive and the 4 wheel drive on the payload numbers of about the amount you are talking about due to the weight of the tranfer case. The two wheel drive truck can carry a greater payload in this case.

Bill M. 03-19-2021 06:18 PM

If I read the question correctly: It does not sound like the Ford engineers believe the load is likely to be equally distributed to each tire. If you just dump weight into the cab and bed more of the weight is carried on the rear axle.

I doubt if the Ford engineers want the vehicle loaded to the full payload limit to approach the maximum load rating of the tires. They probably understand and use reserve capacity in their ratings.

On my Dodge 2500 even the recommended pressures for the tires when at full load are well below the max pressure/max load shown on the tire.

sterlinghick 03-19-2021 07:34 PM

I’ve been stuck in this particular rabbit hole so long I may never get out. 2014 F150 4x4. GVWR is 7350 per door sticker. Max payload is 1,830, curb weight 5,561. Conventional tow max trailer weight is 7,600. Max tongue is 760 without weight distribution hitch and some other larger number (maybe 1,100) with one. Still no clue what we can safely tow. Ford’s documentation sucks.

Fair_Enough 03-19-2021 08:13 PM

Welcome to the overcomplicated world of Ford trucks. The only thing I know about Limited and Platinum is I have not seen one that can carry the payload that I need.

I actually didn't realize how heavy a loaded F-150 could be. Based on your information at 6750 GVW and a sticker of 1271#, your truck weighed 5479# according to Ford.

The limiting factor is far more complicated that tires or wheels, it is the entire package. However, if you replace tires they must be of equal or greater capability / rating. Some think if they upgrade to higher capacity wheels or tires their truck can do more, which might be true, but officially nothing you can do will change the sticker. It is what it is.

Most don't know it, but there is also a maximum frontal area of the trailer, depending on options. Typically this is 55 to 60 square feet for a "properly" equipped F-150.

In 2018 F-150s could be had with GVW from 6100 to 7050 lbs. Then comes HDPP which pushes GVWR up to 7850# for XL and XLT, for this year. Max payload for a stripped down XL can be as high as 3325# in 2021. Max Trailer Towing, by the way, doesn't include HDPP, but HDPP includes Max Trailering.

Code 627, is as rare as hen's teeth. Think of it as "Camper Special" for slide in campers. I haven't found a Ford truck sales person who has a clue how GVWR and payloads are calculated for the vehicles they sell when HDPP comes into play. Ford normally calculates payload with a 150#driver and passenger. Used to be with a half full fuel tank, not sure what it is now. But with HDPP it includes a 150# human in every position equipped with a seatbelt.

Someone said the maximum TWR is 10% (conventional towing), that isn't correct. 10% is the minimum not the maximum. I tow another trailer with a TWR of 25% and it tows likes it's a gooseneck or fifthwheel.

I'll go back to sleep now. Have a good one.
FE

Fair_Enough 03-19-2021 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlinghick (Post 2473710)
I’ve been stuck in this particular rabbit hole so long I may never get out. 2014 F150 4x4. GVWR is 7350 per door sticker. Max payload is 1,830, curb weight 5,561. Conventional tow max trailer weight is 7,600. Max tongue is 760 without weight distribution hitch and some other larger number (maybe 1,100) with one. Still no clue what we can safely tow. Ford’s documentation sucks.

I think your '14 can only tow 5K# without WDH, so max tongue weight would be 500#. 7600# towing requires WDH and TW should be at least 760#. This 7600 would also mean your truck didn't come with a trailer package, if it did look at this again.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...VTTowGuide.pdf

FE

sterlinghick 03-20-2021 08:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fair_Enough (Post 2473746)
I think your '14 can only tow 5K# without WDH, so max tongue weight would be 500#. 7600# towing requires WDH and TW should be at least 760#. This 7600 would also mean your truck didn't come with a trailer package, if it did look at this again.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...VTTowGuide.pdf

FE

So here is where I’m confused. You are correct about the 500, but that appears to be the limit for the hitch, not for the truck. I’m attaching a photo of the hitch sticker. The truck has a tow package, but not max tow. Where I am confused...Ford apparently used this same hitch on multiple trucks. So the tongue weight rating has to be limited by more than just the hitch. How do I find the real rating for this truck?

s1000pre 03-20-2021 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron 8TB (Post 2473515)
Good morning; first post.

We are getting closer to being Airstreamers, and I've got a spreadsheet that we use as we're looking. Our TV is a 2017 F150 Platinum with the Max Tow package and virtually every option available. From my door sticker, payload is 1549 pounds. Fully loaded (TV only) for a trip, we weighed in at 6100 pounds total, against a 7000 pound total weight rating for the F150.

When shopping, I noticed that the Platinums consistently had higher payloads than the Limited; not sure why that was, but in our case we're limited to 900 pounds of additional payload based on the CAT scale readings. YMMV.

Hope that helps in the comparison,

Greg

Baron,

Comparing your numbers, you might be thinking you only have 900lbs left for your trailer. When I read this yesterday, I didn’t consider your wheels & tires. You weighed in at 6,100...I’m guessing 250-300lbs is wheels & tires which get added to the 900 as available payload. The wheels don’t count toward GVWR. You probably have 1,100-1,200 available.

sterlinghick 03-20-2021 08:49 AM

For the OP, I believe that the difference of 200 pounds is that the payload on the door has already included the driver and maybe gasoline.

B. Cole 03-20-2021 08:50 AM

Ok guys.Heres the deal.Tip toeing around maximum allowed weights is a potentially dangerous game.
Any make / model of 1/2 Ton truck, when it comes to "Bumper pull " of large trailers,( 25 + foot range) is probably too small.
Move up to a F-250 3/4 Ton, if you're a Ford fan.Or, better yet, a F-350.
Bigger tow vehicles, especially in the bumper pull division, are ALWAYS better.It just is what it is.
Towing with too small of a tow vehicle, results in "Everything is fine, until suddenly it isnt .."

JEB 03-20-2021 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlinghick (Post 2473845)
For the OP, I believe that the difference of 200 pounds is that the payload on the door has already included the driver and maybe gasoline.

Yes as to gasoline and other required fluids. No as to driver. This myth that payload includes an allowance for a driver has to stop. Ford is emphatic that the full weight of the driver counts as cargo/payload. There is no “allowance.” The driver contributes to payload the same as any other passenger. Ford is so emphatic about this issue that it devotes three whole pages of the F-150 owner’s manual to providing examples showing how to calculate payload, all of which use the full weight of the driver in calculating how much the truck can carry. See 2021 F-150 Owner’s Manual pp. 363-65.

sterlinghick 03-20-2021 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEB (Post 2473861)
Yes as to gasoline and other required fluids. No as to driver. This myth that payload includes an allowance for a driver has to stop. Ford is emphatic that the full weight of the driver counts as cargo/payload. There is no “allowance.” The driver contributes to payload the same as any other passenger. Ford is so emphatic about this issue that it devotes three whole pages of the F-150 owner’s manual to providing examples showing how to calculate payload, all of which use the full weight of the driver in calculating how much the truck can carry. See 2021 F-150 Owner’s Manual pp. 363-65.

Thanks for the input. I’ve see the exact opposite answer on this forum. You might think Ford would understand that if they put a hitch and 7 pin connector on a truck that people might actually want to tow something and do it safely. It’s ridiculous that it should be this complex.


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