Airstream Forums

Airstream Forums (https://www.airforums.com/forums/)
-   2016 - Current Classic (all lengths) (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f540/)
-   -   Victron Multiplus in Classic 30RB (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f540/victron-multiplus-in-classic-30rb-212091.html)

Njg 08-01-2020 08:15 AM

Victron Multiplus in Classic 30RB
 
Hello! Iím moving up from my 25í International to a 2021 30 Classic RB. Iíve installed solar and the Victron MPPT and BMV 702 in the existing trailer and am really pleased with how it works. Iíve always wanted to make the jump to just 2 Battleborns and the Victron Multiplus 3000 mostly for the hybrid function when working off of a small generator. Iíve learned that the Airstream PowerPlus option includes 2 100ah Battleborns, a heater for the battery box, and a change to the WFCO lithium converter as well as adjustments to the included Victron Bluesolar 150/35 for lithium. Because the option is ďdealer installedĒ, Airstream said it is up to the dealer if I want to modify the package. I was hoping to have them install the 3000w Multiplus with BT dongle and delete the WFCO converter and the included PD 1000W inverter. Was also going to add soft starts and the BMV 712 as well as a BT dongle for the bluesolar. The big question I have is, for those who have put the Multiplus in a recent model Classic 30 RB, does the Multiplus fit??? And if so, where? Do you have any pics of the install you could share? Do you see any problems with the plan I have laid out? Was not planning on buying a GX or other control panel because my understanding is that the Multiplus can be controlled by the bluetoooth dongle. I realize I will lose functionality of the inverter button on the Czone. Thank you all so much in advance for your help.

Also, totally unrelated, but does anyone have trouble sleeping two adults and 2 kids in the Classic 30, esp as kids get bigger?

fran&frank 08-01-2020 08:39 AM

Hellow Njg. We are just 15 miles south of you in Hartsburg MO. We have a 27' FB Flying Cloud that we installed lithium and solar in including a Multiplus 3000. I am not familiar with the layout of your Classic but we installed the battery and multiplus under the front queen bed. You can check out our installation on the following posts:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...de-163971.html

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-a-164507.html

Or just search Frank's lithium and inverter upgrade or Frank's solar upgrade. One quick note the Multiplus is both a charger and a inverter so there is no need for a seperate inverter. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss further--Frank

wulfraat 08-01-2020 09:52 AM

Victron Multiplus in Classic 30RB
 
1 Attachment(s)
Swapping an inverter and dropping in two battleborn is a low tech / rudimentary install that dealers can do using existing system wiring. The job takes maybe an hour, max two if they want to cover some of their overhead.

I would not have a dealer try to install a multiplus. This requires a new main split panel, rewiring of the main panel, new 50A 120v and 12v wire runs, software programming of the multi, additional Victron ve.Bus components including a digital control panel and optionally a cerbo or CC GX interface, etc. (btw - I personally find the GX and digital control panel very convenient if you are using the system when off grid / hybrid modes - I use both in combination with the apps on my my phone / local 100Mb wireless network in my trailer)

Itís a sophisticated system that should be left to Victron trained specialists to install and configure properly, unless you are personally tech, electrical and mechanical savvy (like Frank!) in which case your better off installing yourself with a pre programmed unit shipped from AM solar.

On the classic, like the 30í international, under the rear bed is a good location.

Iím not sure there is enough room under the front couch in the classic due to the mechanics of the classic couch foot rests to locate everything. The multi needs to be located at the batteries, within a foot or two, so the batteries need to be moved inside the trailer for a 3000 install. BTW the 3000 is oversized for two battleborns, you will need to limit its Inverter output so as not to overload your 2 batteries with high amperage draw. The 3000 is capable of spiking at 6000w. Iíve melted a high amperage blue sea switch running my AC for hours and days of batteries :) it can pull some juice!

Here you can see the install in my 30RB. Multi is in the corner of the bed on the right hand side.

More details on my install here:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f53...um-182406.html

This was about 80+ man hours by a progressional Lew Farber who installs these units every week. GMFL on this forum and AM Solar are also great installer options.

Hope that helps.

Njg 08-01-2020 12:36 PM

Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. I was planning on ordering the multi preprogrammed from Battleborn, but your point about the draw is a good one. I was thinking ďwhy not get the 3k because it is only approx $100 more than the compact 2k, but I donít plan on even attempting to run the AC or other large loads off of battery alone, I just want to augment compressor start to allow the small genset to run the AC. It does beg the question of why not simply buy a bigger generator.. itís not lost on me. Maybe skipping the multi is the better plan for my planned use.. still would love input and feedback from the group.

fran&frank 08-01-2020 02:39 PM

Even if you just want to take advanatge of the hybrid function of the multiplus to help start your air conditioner it still will require a new split breaker panel or at least a second mini panel and some re-wiring. So if your goal is to run your AC on a modest size generator and you are happy with the rest of your system it will be much simpler to get an easy start and suitable sized generator. However the multiplus would provide a programable charger for whatever batteries you have, an inverter to power you 110 V AC circuits from your batteries, and the hybrid function to use the batteries to help power things when you have inadequate AC power coming in. But if you are going to go to the trouple to install it I'd add at least a third battleborn battery to fully take advanatge of its features.--Frank

Njg 08-02-2020 07:59 AM

Frank and Wulf,

In doing a little more digging I discovered this:


https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1

A ďsmart phase selectorĒ from AM Solar. Seems like this takes a considerable amount of effort out of the Multiplus install. Do either of you (or anyone else) use this? Itís not cheap, and it is another largish box to find space for, but it does seem to make the Multiplus a bit more plug and play on a 50a trailer. Curious to have your thoughts. May pay for itself in labor savings...

wulfraat 08-02-2020 08:10 AM

Victron Multiplus in Classic 30RB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Njg (Post 2391941)
Frank and Wulf,

In doing a little more digging I discovered this:


https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1

A ďsmart phase selectorĒ from AM Solar. Seems like this takes a considerable amount of effort out of the Multiplus install. Do either of you (or anyone else) use this? Itís not cheap, and it is another largish box to find space for, but it does seem to make the Multiplus a bit more plug and play on a 50a trailer. Curious to have your thoughts. May pay for itself in labor savings...



Yes it sure does simplify the install... No experience but GMFL on the forum has one (or is in the process of installing one) on his 30í globetrotter.

RosenBob 08-02-2020 12:23 PM

We have a FC 30' RB with a similar layout to the classic. We installed two 300Ah lithium LifeBlue batteries along with the Victron Multiplus 3000 charger/inverter under the right bench seat of the dinette (the seat closest to the couch at the front of the AS). We installed 700 Watts of solar (7 100 watt panels) on the roof and could add another 180 Watts if we want. By putting the batteries and inverter under the dinette we could bring cabling down from the roof through the closet under the floor to where the load center is under the fridge and then around to batteries and charger/inverter under the table against the outside wall. We installed the Smart Phase Selector (SPS) under the fridge replacing/removing the converter there. Also installed a Victron Complete Charge Controller (85amp I think) under our L-shaped couch which butts into the dinette bench seat in the FC. We did this ourselves with consultation from AM Solar where we bought the system and had help in design and fine-tuning. It works great and can run one of the ACs off batteries and solar for an hour or two. If I was doing alot of boon docking in heat I would probably also bring a generator because the AC won't run all day off the batteries/solar setup. We did not install the easy starts to the ACs but may in the future. I have pictures of most of the system if you want to see them. Just let me know.

RosenBob 08-02-2020 02:03 PM

Here are some pictures of our install. I will also add that on hot days when doing alot of electrical use/charging the batteries and inverter under the bench seat heat up. I've added one vent and will probably add another vent and a fan to keep the battery/inverter compartment cooler. Lithium batteries don't like getting too hot so they have a way to automatically shut down if they overheat.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...T-YsVDfNevSGd-
The control panel, similar to ones I saw at AM Solar. That's where I got the idea for this layout. Not that it is on a plywood panel just inside the door opening to what was storage under the dinette bench before I added the batteries and inverter.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...W-EtRZO8JAwC_i
The color monitor in the cabinet above the dinette.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...WrxMA7CBalzk5r
These are the solar panel cables under the table. I haven't covered these yet but have a plan for doing that.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...1A5ok7An4zZ7Yv
And here are the solar panels on the roof. https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...9hiedC8X_IGF1n
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...1ZGhIU2lwUE7HG

GotTaGo 08-02-2020 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RosenBob (Post 2392144)
Here are some pictures of our install. I will also add that on hot days when doing alot of electrical use/charging the batteries and inverter under the bench seat heat up. I've added one vent and will probably add another vent and a fan to keep the battery/inverter compartment cooler. Lithium batteries don't like getting too hot so they have a way to automatically shut down if they overheat.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...T-YsVDfNevSGd-
The control panel, similar to ones I saw at AM Solar. That's where I got the idea for this layout. Not that it is on a plywood panel just inside the door opening to what was storage under the dinette bench before I added the batteries and inverter.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...W-EtRZO8JAwC_i
The color monitor in the cabinet above the dinette.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...WrxMA7CBalzk5r
These are the solar panel cables under the table. I haven't covered these yet but have a plan for doing that.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...1A5ok7An4zZ7Yv
And here are the solar panels on the roof. https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...9hiedC8X_IGF1n
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...1ZGhIU2lwUE7HG



Your photo links are returning a ď404 URL not found on serverĒ error

Gulliver72 08-02-2020 05:14 PM

Everything inside. WFCO converter not needed. Victron is an inverter/charger. 3 or 4 batteries with 3000w inverter. Batteries and inverter very near each other. (Short cable runs). Mine is under the twin bed.

GMFL 08-02-2020 05:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat (Post 2391945)
Yes it sure does simplify the install... No experience but GMFL on the forum has one (or is in the process of installing one) on his 30í globetrotter.

Iíve installed 9 of these. They work very well. 2 lock out relays and a small relay allow you to power a split phase 50A panel via a single phase source.

RosenBob 08-03-2020 07:12 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Photos of my solar/inverter/LifeBlue Lithium batteries were generating errors before. Trying it again.

The pictures below are 1) two 300Ah LifeBlue Lithium Batteries with Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger, 2) the control panel which still needs labels; main switch with breaker, inverter switch with breaker, cabin 12v DC switch with breaker, 3) the color monitor for batteries, inverter, charger gives great live diagram of how power is flowing, 4) cables from the solar panels going to charge controller and inverter, still need to cover them - I have a plan for that, 5) solar panels on the roof.

Njg 08-04-2020 09:15 AM

So, by my estimation, the converter, AC in lines and fuse box on the Classic is somewhere below the dinette seat or refrigerator. If I am insistent on keeping the lithiums in the battery box, which I really want to do, my guess (I donít have the trailer yet, itís ordered so I canít go and look...) is that I should install the victron Multiplus below the middle seat of the sofa at the front of the trailer with the grey DC box, and the AM Solar device near the breaker box below the refrigerator. This will allow short 4/0 DC runs from battery to inverter and there will need to be an AC run from the AM Solar device to the multiplus and back again.

Please poke holes in this (other than telling me to bring the batteries inside) anything I am missing? Surely someone has done this on a recent model classic 30?

Also, any issues with me using the metal shroud at the baseboard as a wire chase for those 2 AC runs from AM Solar box to Multiplus?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.