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-   -   A/C replacement photos (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f427/a-c-replacement-photos-20568.html)

Zeppelinium 02-01-2006 02:00 PM

A/C replacement photos
 
10 Attachment(s)
Did a total replacement last summer. To start, the "scaffold" consists of two 14' extenable ladders and an 8' long 2x10 with cleats at each end to ensure it won't walk off the ladders. This rig allows the 2x10 to be adjusted to almost any height above the trailer. The boards you can see under the ladders have 1" foam on the trailer side, which has prevented any scratches and absolutely no oil can dents.

The AC had previously been dinged and removed, leaving the old support plate and a new vent to close the hole temporarily. The old flanges on the support plate can be sawed off with moderate effort, but it is effective and easy to bend them over with a hammer. Bending them provides some additional strength to the plate.

Once the vent was removed, you can see the very simple and weak aluminum channels around the periphery. When you remove the channels, you can see that the wiring runs close and thick on the curb side of the opening. You have to enlarge the opening about 1/2" to comply with the new standard vent/AC opening. A hack saw does a good job, but you need to install short pieces of wood rib (just outside of the cut line) and clamp them in order to get a clean cut.

Putting in the 2x4 wooden ribs is amazing! Suddenly the roof is extremely strong--I felt like I could do a pullup on the edge, should I be so inclined. You have to make a decision on whether or not you want to pull the old drain through the rib and make it available as a drain for the plate. You'll also have the old 4-wire themostat connection--I coiled up the wires and stored them behind the ribs. The only connection you have to make is the 110 volt.

Photo 9 you can see the interior plate with the air divertors and the thermostat. The cover fit on perfectly and the roof in my Caravel is essentially flat at this point, so no trimming was required.

The outside view of the installation, totally normal except that the side flanges of the old installation only had to be cut down slightly, so they are still visible, but I can stand it. Taking the old support plate off would have been a real nightmare and probably would have caused major skin damage.

Zeppelinium 02-01-2006 02:05 PM

I have to add that I thought I could get the A/C unit up on the roof by myself. Don't try it. I recognized my stupidity early and called a very strong friend, but it was still a struggle to safely control it.

The real problem is that the horizontal 2x10 can't be directly over the vent hole, so you have a real cantilever problem in keeping the unit off the roof until you have it in a position where it won't damage nearby skin. Once you get the unit up on the 2x10, each of you will be up on a ladder so you can handle it from both sides. This was the only painful part of the whole operation.

Thinking back, this was a two-day job.

Mike76251 02-06-2006 01:58 PM

Here's how I did it........don't try this at home kids!
I pulled the new Coleman Mach something up a ladder and layed it in the hole.
To climb a ladder you need one hand free and that leaves only one hand to lift the A/C with!!!!
I did this by myself and was sore for several days.
The next time I do it........I will rent a helocopter or hire some alien craft to lift it!
Mike

wayner1239 02-06-2006 04:05 PM

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really like the idea of using a ladder on each side of the unit to make a scaffold. That appears to be a good way to do anything on top of the a/s.
Wayne

lewster 03-17-2006 06:23 AM

Air conditioner jack
 
I applaud your feats of strength and perserverence. There IS a simpler method. I rent an air conditioner jack from a local equipment rental place. It is like a big manual fork lift that will completely roll under the trail. It extends 18' high and is the best device to remove/replace air units with. I use one about every other week and would be lost without it. If I keep replacing air units at this pace....I might just have to but one!:D

Cracker 03-17-2006 05:02 PM

Interestingly enough, I observed the replacement of my A/C unit at the factory in Jackson Center and the Techs didn't use any sort of scaffolding over the roof. Apparently there's a trick to only stepping in the right place!

TomW 03-17-2006 05:37 PM

No smoke, no mirrors
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cracker
... Apparently there's a trick to only stepping in the right place!

Not according to Inland Andy. Feeling comfortable with his advice of [paraphrased] "Walk anywhere except the endcaps preferably with soft soled shoes", I have been all over the top of my American Classic.

The only trick in AC replacement is getting the new unit up there.

Andy rocks. :cool:

Tom

SafeHarbor 03-18-2006 01:53 PM

To my neighbors' amazement, I simply left the replacement Courier A/C in the box and PUSHED it up the ladder to get it on top of the Argosy. It almost killed me. :lol:

Airconditioners never need replacing when it's 70 degrees out there. It was 100+ on top of the trailer. This turned into a crash course in "getting it running NOW - worry about finishing installing it later."

I also made a 2x2 wooden frame for it to rest on. Unfortunately, I didn't hook up a new drain - I bought into the idea that most of the runoff would be slung onto the coils. Bad idea. Runoff gets slung THROUGH the coils, and then it runs off the side of the trailer. I need to correct that one of these days. :)

Lamar

Sneakinup 03-18-2006 02:27 PM

Piece of cake.

Maybe it was the spinach I had that morning, but the Carrier AirV was really manageable. 2 people and it was done in no time.

Here is my installation... AC INSTALL

bsshrink 08-10-2006 08:05 AM

I need some basic instruction in removing an Armstrong on my 69 Overlander. Any info would be appreciated

Zeppelinium 08-10-2006 08:11 AM

1. take down the inside baffle

2. make sure AC power is disconnected from trailer

3. open the airconditioner power box and disconnect AC leads

4. disconnect the thermstat leads, 3 or 4 smaller wires

5. undo the holdown bolts--the airconditioner is now free (if memory serves)

6. Now you have to get on top--don't press down on skin or you'll oil can it and put in a crease

7. drill out the rivets around the equator of the cover and take the top off

8. undo the bottom shroud piece from the metal flange that runs around the perimeter and is attached to the shell--remove

9. now you have to pick up the airconditioner. it's probably too heavy for one person unless you dissassemble it in place, eg, cut the copper and take off the compressor separately.

10. remove the remainder.

after you tackle it, please note any steps I missed and document them here. Thanks.

bsshrink 08-21-2006 09:42 PM

mea culpa
 
:blush: I have since learned that there is little wrong with the Armstrong but that my outbuilding electrical service leaves much to be desired. I did replace the 120V >24 V transformer, might need a relay but the unit works if it's fed good juice. Electician on the way to correct that, thanks, all, I'll save the thread for when I really need it

IndyAnne 08-19-2007 01:26 PM

Indianapolis, IN -- A/C install and Castleton sightings
 
Thank you for your post back in February of '06. I am having a Dometic Arctic Breeze installed in my 24' 1968 Trade Wind, built in Jackson Center, OH. There has never been an air conditioner installed on my Trade Wind, to my knowledge, although the opening they are using is a 14" vent opening. There is a vent in the front, this opening in the center, and a vent in the back. The guys at the place I took it to said they cannot find 110 wiring in the ceiling, nor a drip tube ready for installation. Andy at Inland RV said he could not help with wiring schematics for my model of trailer, either.

I called the factory while I still lived in Dayton, OH, and they did not want the job. No reason, except they were not making those kinds of appointments. Maybe if I were the original owner... who knows?

So, now I am living in Indianapolis, and I have been searching everywhere, looking for a repair center to do not only the A/C, but to check out and overhaul/repair/replace the gas services. After I took the Trade Wind to a repair center (Indianapolis RV Tech), I heard about Edmundson, down in Edinbugh. If I ever get the Trade Wind back (she's been gone all summer, ironically: having the A/C installed), I'll have a talk with the man in Edinburgh.

I found your post and pictures today. I'll take them over the IRVT tomorrow, and if they have not done what you did, I'll throw a tarp over it and take it somewhere else.

I'll take some pictures the next time I go to IRVT to visit my Trade Wind. :-)

Is there any good news for me about service near Indianapolis? I rode my scooter up to a party in Castleton and saw a couple of Airstreams in a storage facilty. Are these owners on the forum?

Thanks,
Anne

Inland RV Center, In 08-19-2007 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyAnne
Thank you for your post back in February of '06. I am having a Dometic Arctic Breeze installed in my 24' 1968 Trade Wind, built in Jackson Center, OH. There has never been an air conditioner installed on my Trade Wind, to my knowledge, although the opening they are using is a 14" vent opening. There is a vent in the front, this opening in the center, and a vent in the back. The guys at the place I took it to said they cannot find 110 wiring in the ceiling, nor a drip tube ready for installation. Andy at Inland RV said he could not help with wiring schematics for my model of trailer, either.

I called the factory while I still lived in Dayton, OH, and they did not want the job. No reason, except they were not making those kinds of appointments. Maybe if I were the original owner... who knows?

So, now I am living in Indianapolis, and I have been searching everywhere, looking for a repair center to do not only the A/C, but to check out and overhaul/repair/replace the gas services. After I took the Trade Wind to a repair center (Indianapolis RV Tech), I heard about Edmundson, down in Edinbugh. If I ever get the Trade Wind back (she's been gone all summer, ironically: having the A/C installed), I'll have a talk with the man in Edinburgh.

I found your post and pictures today. I'll take them over the IRVT tomorrow, and if they have not done what you did, I'll throw a tarp over it and take it somewhere else.

I'll take some pictures the next time I go to IRVT to visit my Trade Wind. :-)

Is there any good news for me about service near Indianapolis? I rode my scooter up to a party in Castleton and saw a couple of Airstreams in a storage facilty. Are these owners on the forum?

Thanks,
Anne

Anne.

Do not let then install the AC in a vent opening. That is not where they are mounted.

I will check tomorrow and try to find the location of the wires for you.

Andy

goransons 08-21-2007 11:56 PM

Andy was able to give me a measurement and was within 6 inches on my 69 tradewind (ehh I'll give it to him). On mine it was 101 inches back from the first rib, about a foot behind the rear vent, but not sure on a 68 since I think there was a body style change. I cut the hole myself, reinforced it, installed the AC all in a couple hours. If you have access to a couple sturdy ladders and some basic tools like tin snips and something to cut some aluminum stock to add bracing (sawzall or hack saw) then you should be able to do it. I'm a total rookie and when I got into it I realized how easy it was. I posted pics of it on the thread https://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...day-35176.html

IndyAnne 08-22-2007 07:09 AM

Thanks so much, goransons! I am going to print out this message and your pictures and take to the service people.
Anne

JW84345 06-22-2009 10:14 PM

Why wood framing and not aluminum?

Zeppelinium 06-23-2009 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW84345 (Post 712980)
Why wood framing and not aluminum?

Fabrication, in a word. The transverse pieces need to be curved, about 3/4" arch across 20". It's possible to shrink and stretch two complimentary "L" extrusions, then rivet their webs together to form an aluminum beam, but a nice piece of 2X lumber on a bandsaw is so much easier.

In addition, riveting aluminum braces in place would require the flanges to face toward the inside of the opening (bucked rivets, of course), which would result in a recess space all the way around.

Although not elegant, the wood works fine and should be dry if the A/C is installed correctly, so no rot.

Zep

eubank 06-23-2009 07:58 AM

Zep, I've been doing mental rehearsal on this in prep for installing one in our rig. One question I have is this: On the two wooden ribs running fore to aft, are they attached to the two aluminum traverse stringers fore and aft of the hole? Or do the four wooden ribs just attach only immediately around the hole?
:)
Lynn

Inland RV Center, In 06-23-2009 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank (Post 713084)
Zep, I've been doing mental rehearsal on this in prep for installing one in our rig. One question I have is this: On the two wooden ribs running fore to aft, are they attached to the two aluminum traverse stringers fore and aft of the hole? Or do the four wooden ribs just attach only immediately around the hole?
:)
Lynn

Aluminum is far better than wood.

The stringers, for proper and adequate support, should be fastened to the fore and aft of the square hole, main bows.

Then 2 small stiffners should be added between the stringers, creating a 14" X 14" square hole.

Andy

eubank 06-23-2009 08:39 AM

Thanks, Andy, that's the fore-aft attachment info I was needing!

I probably will go with wood, though, given the bow in the roof on the older AS. Maybe I'll ante up for a big chunk of more rot-proof stuff for ribs.
:)
Lynn

reggiemon 06-23-2009 08:54 AM

Interesting, I just added an A/C to my "59.
I found that I already had alum C channel running for & aft between the bows but about 1 1/2" away from each side of the 14" vent hole so I got 1 1/2" square alum tube (wall thickness 1/4") and used this to frame all sides of the 14" hole. There was not enough curve in the cross wise 14" to make a difference and this gave me solid framework where the A/C gasket is being compressed. Cut 1" holes for wiring with a hole saw.

Jkemp72 06-24-2009 10:55 AM

I am abou to replace my unit in my 72 ambassador. the carrier unit seems to be the best? any suggestions?

Zeppelinium 06-28-2009 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank (Post 713084)
...One question I have is this: On the two wooden ribs running fore to aft, are they attached to the two aluminum traverse stringers fore and aft of the hole? Or do the four wooden ribs just attach only immediately around the hole?...

Andy may be right about using aluminum and attaching the ribs that run fore and aft to the cross ribs, but I think the gain is marginal. If you do a good job installing the wood, tight screws and all, plus ensure that water can't get on the wood, it will last longer than you will. I think you'll find that if you merely bracket the 14" vent hole all around with 1-1/2 thick by 1-3/4" (the shell thickness), that after you screw the inner and outer skins to the wood you'll be able to do a pullup on the edge. It will easily support the a/c.

Besides, tell me how you're going to attach the longitudinal braces to the cross pieces (the ribs)? If you don't put some flanges in, then just running the braces up to them won't add substantial rigidity to the roof.

I have seen the same thing REGGIEMON has seen, eg, not much curve in some of the roofs. Don't have a clue why, as all the ribs should be the same curve. We just did Richard's a/c at the Albuquerque rally and I cut his cross pieces to have 5/8" or so arch across 18" and it wasn't enough--we had a very slight wrinkle in the outer skin because it wanted more arch. I think you need to trial fit the arch, but I recommend 3/4" of curve

Zep.

Inland RV Center, In 06-28-2009 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium (Post 715136)
Andy may be right about using aluminum and attaching the ribs that run fore and aft to the cross ribs, but I think the gain is marginal. If you do a good job installing the wood, tight screws and all, plus ensure that water can't get on the wood, it will last longer than you will. I think you'll find that if you merely bracket the 14" vent hole all around with 1-1/2 thick by 1-3/4" (the shell thickness), that after you screw the inner and outer skins to the wood you'll be able to do a pullup on the edge. It will easily support the a/c.

Besides, tell me how you're going to attach the longitudinal braces to the cross pieces (the ribs)? If you don't put some flanges in, then just running the braces up to them won't add substantial rigidity to the roof.

I have seen the same thing REGGIEMON has seen, eg, not much curve in some of the roofs. Don't have a clue why, as all the ribs should be the same curve. We just did Richard's a/c at the Albuquerque rally and I cut his cross pieces to have 5/8" or so arch across 18" and it wasn't enough--we had a very slight wrinkle in the outer skin because it wanted more arch. I think you need to trial fit the arch, but I recommend 3/4" of curve

Zep.

Zep.

I agree that using the aluminum, does not offer far out benefits.

But, it does off a singular benefit that wood cannot possible give.

That wood, in a hidden area, can, because of moisture, gather mold. That mold then would, however slight, be in the exhaust air from the AC.

I don't think, anyone, would want to take the risk of having mold in the AC exhaust. There is no guarantee that it won't happen.

Bottom line, the aluminum is the only choice, especially for health reasons.

We have seen mold in that area in a few cases. To me, one case is more than I wish have to deal with.

Andy

reggiemon 06-30-2009 07:36 AM

3 Attachment(s)
One clue to this is not all AS trailers are the same shape.
One of the things we like about our 18 footer is the headroom and spacious feel to the interior.
I am going to show pictures of my 14" vent cut out but I am sure this will not apply to everyones trailer.
I agree with Andy on the mold. Living in South Texas on the coast with our constant humidity, it is a valid concern. (thanks for the new axle installation, Andy. This is one sweet towing trailer!)

First picture is looking aft. The bow is about 15" away & you see a flat "C " channel rivited in place by someone before me.
2nd & 3rd picture are side views showing "C" channel also installed by someone else with interior & exterior rivits
When I tightened down the A/C bolts the exterior surface would start to curve down ward.

reggiemon 06-30-2009 07:40 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture looking forward. In this direction the bow is only 2 " away from the vent cut out. You can see the bow roof curve here.

reggiemon 06-30-2009 07:50 AM

3 Attachment(s)
View to the front bow.
Next is the alum square tube installed. sorry about the focus!
You can get an idea of the curvature here also.

reggiemon 06-30-2009 07:55 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Exterior shots.
Vintage Airstream blasphemy........Damn A/C sitting on roof.

I did something to put it in stelth mode........more to come!

Anyway, hope this helps clear up some of what we are discussing & cussing.
Cheers!

Melody Ranch 06-30-2009 08:02 AM

nice!!
 
Your set for the summer now! How about a profile picture from the side....? I liked my Carrier low profile.

reggiemon 06-30-2009 09:17 AM

Back to the original thread topic......I was lucky to have a inside office with ply top covered ceiling. (see the picture above) We took the A/C up a ladder to the roof & then carefully set a 15' 4x6 length wise on the trailer, off center across the bows. Then we slid the A/C on its bottom foam packing across a 3/4' ply ramp that was transversing the roof & board on the trailer. Once on the trailer it was easy to manuver the A/C off the foam base & into place.
If I did not have the building available, Zep's solution is what I would have tried.

MR, this trailer is so tall that you have to really get back to get a good pic of the A/C. BUT I still didn't like the look untill I painted the A/C Titanium Silver to make it less of an eyesore.

tinsltootsie 07-14-2010 04:26 PM

couldn't find the install site
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneakinup (Post 217460)
Piece of cake.

Maybe it was the spinach I had that morning, but the Carrier AirV was really manageable. 2 people and it was done in no time.

Here is my installation... AC INSTALL

Couldn't find the install site. please repost. Thanks.

Tazameir 02-26-2011 04:33 AM

I have not done this yet, but I will have to down the road. So I have a question. Has anyone tried to make a quad-pad sort of rig, and lift the AC unit via pullies up in the air, tie it off at the AC unit which would be a foot higher then the trailer roof height, then back the trailer under that location, and lower it safely into place? Think of the quad pad as 4 long poles, like 12'-16' long, 2 pairs attatched at the top, and spead at the bottom. Then a pole that spans between the 2 sets wide enough for the trailer to fit under, then some rop attaching the bottoms to each across the span that can be run over, but will hold them in place. Also some "support" at the top joints so it does not rock over and fall. I can not really explain that well whats in my head, but the old BSA lashings come to mind to make it stable. All this is probably more work then a couple of people and a few ladders.. Just random thinking I suppose. I'll probably use real construction scaffolding when I get to mine.
C.

Zeppelinium 02-26-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazameir (Post 956589)
...Has anyone tried to make a quad-pad sort of rig, ...

You will spend more time doing the quad-pad than it's worth, IMHO. A/C's aren't really that heavy. The two ladders and a cross-plank is more stable than you think. Two people can easily get an a/c up the ladder and onto the plank. Even one person, if they're a little nutty and ignore risk...

Zep

eubank 02-26-2011 05:48 PM

I wouldn't advise the one-person approach, though. Even with a big scaffold, getting the new AC up on top was a MAJOR task.
:)
Lynn

r.swanson 05-06-2012 11:29 AM

my son has got a boom truck going to replace mine with that.

Tazameir 05-07-2012 10:34 AM

Duuu.... I never even thought of that. I have a 60' bucket truck... That would be beyond easy to use as a crane to lift it into place. Getting any form of help where I am is impossible. So I think of ways to do most things solo.

C.


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