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-   -   bypass engine oil filtration (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/bypass-engine-oil-filtration-204269.html)

drgene 01-06-2020 08:45 AM

bypass engine oil filtration
 
Any suggestions on systems/instillation, etc. 3.0 MB diesel. 2013 AS ext 24 feet

thewarden 01-06-2020 10:29 AM

Amsoil makes a good oil bypass filter system. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...?code=BMK21-EA

Lafitte 01-06-2020 04:04 PM

Frantz
 
Frantz Bypass oil filter
Use one in my Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins
Keeps oil squeaky clean !
https://www.frantzfilters.com

white laker 01-06-2020 06:35 PM

some items to think about...
The suppliers of these filters sell them on an extended oil interval, not cleaner oil. They only filter about 10% of the oil. 90% just cycles through the main filter.
Oil in an engine flows primarily within protected passages within the engine block. With the bypass filter installed, oil is routed through external hoses and lines and is subject to leakage and failure of clamps, hoses, fittings and the actual filter.
If you really want to know what the value of these filters is, go to a Cat or Cummins dealer and pick up a couple of Oil Sample kits to see what shape the oil is in. You will be surprised what happens to oil in these situations as intervals are stretched out to save a few bucks on oil.
There is no substitute for good engine maintenance and these bypass filters really are not part of the program.
The above is from a retired, old, Cat Guy!

Halford1 01-06-2020 07:30 PM

a 18 wheeler went 400,000 miles using the Amsoil bypass oil filter system and the engine was taken apart and it was found very little wear on most parts.

I use Amsoil myself on lawnmower and could see the difference in power with Amsoil and regular oil.

there will always be some who disagree but I have gone though with Amsoil for over 15 years. It is up to you.

Alumineer 01-06-2020 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgene (Post 2321250)
Any suggestions on systems/instillation, etc. 3.0 MB diesel. 2013 AS ext 24 feet

The other posters gave some options. If youíre interested in keeping small iron and steel particles out of circulation then just place a 1/2 inch rare earth magnet on the outside of your engine oil drain plug. Youíll be amazed at the sludge that ends up stuck to the drain plug. You can also put that magnet on the inside of the drain plug, depending on its diameter. The magnet will pick up more junk on the inside and not attract road debris.

dznf0g 01-06-2020 09:04 PM

https://www.shopfiltermag.com/

Been using these for many years on my small engines an vehicles. Cut open one old filter and you will be a believer.

Titus 01-07-2020 08:15 AM

The big unknown in the 400,000 mile story is 'what would the engine have looked like without the bypass filter?'

I am a bit skeptical about MB increasing oil change intervals from 10k to 15k and now 20k miles. I suspect it was done based upon acceptable failure levels being noted first at 10k and then at 15k miles. I doubt there have been any engine changes that allow the change interval to be extended. I'd be tempted to use a 10k (or less) oil change interval instead of a bypass filter - but to each his own.

Lafitte 01-07-2020 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white laker (Post 2321408)
some items to think about...
The suppliers of these filters sell them on an extended oil interval, not cleaner oil. They only filter about 10% of the oil. 90% just cycles through the main filter.
Oil in an engine flows primarily within protected passages within the engine block. With the bypass filter installed, oil is routed through external hoses and lines and is subject to leakage and failure of clamps, hoses, fittings and the actual filter.
If you really want to know what the value of these filters is, go to a Cat or Cummins dealer and pick up a couple of Oil Sample kits to see what shape the oil is in. You will be surprised what happens to oil in these situations as intervals are stretched out to save a few bucks on oil.
There is no substitute for good engine maintenance and these bypass filters really are not part of the program.
The above is from a retired, old, Cat Guy!

All true.
Except I change oil every 5000 miles. Oil seems clean.

primepower 01-07-2020 09:00 AM

I have been running an Amsoil bypass setup on my vehicles since 2005. Currently there is one on my 12 F250 Diesel. I conduct oil analysis every year on it. I'm averaging changing the oil every three years. Saves me a ton as I have a deeper sump than factory so it has a lot of oil. Plus it is cleaner than just a normal filter. We placed this on a friend's truck without changing the oil, ran it for thirty minutes and then checked his oil. Looked way cleaner. I'm a big fan of the system. By the way I am a Marine Engineering Officer in the Army and hold a valid coast guard license. I'm well versed in engines, electrical, etc.

Halford1 01-07-2020 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus (Post 2321507)
The big unknown in the 400,000 mile story is 'what would the engine have looked like without the bypass filter?'

I am a bit skeptical about MB increasing oil change intervals from 10k to 15k and now 20k miles. I suspect it was done based upon acceptable failure levels being noted first at 10k and then at 15k miles. I doubt there have been any engine changes that allow the change interval to be extended. I'd be tempted to use a 10k (or less) oil change interval instead of a bypass filter - but to each his own.

with the bypass oil filter system, you change oil filter regularly but the bypass filter at different interval. maybe primepower can give you more accurate info.

primepower 01-07-2020 01:56 PM

I actually don't change the filters or oil until the oil analysis says so. The great thing about doing it this way is not only I save money but I also see exactly what's going on in my oil and can possibly fix an issue before it is a major problem. I also have the extra fuel water separator from dieselsite on my truck. I do quite a bit of things to over maintenance the vehicle but I'm in it for the Long haul.

thewarden 01-07-2020 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white laker (Post 2321408)
some items to think about...
The suppliers of these filters sell them on an extended oil interval, not cleaner oil. They only filter about 10% of the oil. 90% just cycles through the main filter.

This is inaccurate. Bypass filters operate by filtering oil on a "partial-flow" basis. They draw approximately 10 percent of the oil pump's capacity at any one time and trap the extremely small, wear-causing contaminants that full-flow filters can't remove. Bypass filters have a high pressure differential, causing the oil to flow through them very slowly and allowing for the removal of smaller contaminants. It is called bypass filtration because the oil flows from the bypass filter back to the sump and bypasses the engine. This continual process eventually cleans all the oil in the system, not just 10%.

primepower 01-07-2020 02:37 PM

Correct the Amsoil oil bypass system takes about 30 minutes I believe to filter all of the oil in the engine.

I do want to add on my extended service intervals I do not get to drive my truck as often as I would like so if you put a lot of mileage on your truck I firmly believe you will have extended service intervals but probably not to the extent that I have of three years.

thewarden 01-07-2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white laker (Post 2321408)
If you really want to know what the value of these filters is, go to a Cat or Cummins dealer and pick up a couple of Oil Sample kits to see what shape the oil is in. You will be surprised what happens to oil in these situations as intervals are stretched out to save a few bucks on oil.
There is no substitute for good engine maintenance and these bypass filters really are not part of the program.

What is the surprise you are referring to? I have used independent oil analysis for years and have never had a "surprise". What I did get was useful information on the condition of my oil at the time of analysis and when it was time to change it, which was usually a very significant higher number of miles and period of time from the vehicle manufacturers recommended change intervals.

Unlike yesteryears conventional dino oils, today's high quality synthetic oils and their additive packages take a very long time to break down, but they do get contaminates in them just the same. A very good filtering system will filter these out and a bypass filter will filter much smaller particles, (read cleaner oil here) allowing the oil to keep doing its job for a long time.

primepower 01-07-2020 02:49 PM

I agree and also the Caterpillar and Cummins engines that we use on our vessels in the Army all come with bypass filters and we also conduct oil analysis on them.

primepower 01-07-2020 03:17 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is my latest independent report. Completed last August on two year old old. Instead of doing another analysis I'm just going to change it this August. The last report was a "0" in the range.

ITSNO60 01-07-2020 04:29 PM

I am not sure why more manufacturers don't just make spin on bypass filters to replace the factory filter. I use a Fleetguard LF9027 bypass filter on my 7.3, just spin it on. No kit or system to install or worry about a hose leaking.

thewarden 01-07-2020 08:11 PM

Typically a bypass filter is much finer and consequently it has a much lower flow than regular filters, making them unsuitable for use in place of a regular filter. I would suspect engine damage would occur at some point due to the restricted flow.

ITSNO60 01-08-2020 06:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarden (Post 2321717)
Typically a bypass filter is much finer and consequently it has a much lower flow than regular filters, making them unsuitable for use in place of a regular filter. I would suspect engine damage would occur at some point due to the restricted flow.

What I am referring to is a spin on filter that has both full flow filtration and bypass filtration, just like an externally mounted bypass setup but all contained in one throwaway unit. This is the one I use on my Powerstroke.

thewarden 01-08-2020 09:42 AM

Thanks for the clarification. This looks like a very good compromise filter to a full out bypass system in addition to the normal engine oil filter.

davidz71 01-12-2020 09:18 AM

Another Amsoil bypass user here. I used one on my '92 Z71 4x4 and have one on my '01 2500hd. The Amsoil full flow filter was much bigger than the OEM filter so more filter area for the oil to go through. The bypass filter was huge and you can get 3 sizes for the remote mount. I would change oil one time per year so times it to change during the summer. I would go 6 k, change the full flow filter, go another 6 k and change both filters. Amsoil says you can go 25,000 miles using the 12,500 and 12,500 schedule like above. I actually did that on my Z71 and the engine was perfect until the truck was rolled by one of my sons.

silverhio 01-12-2020 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITSNO60 (Post 2321655)
I am not sure why more manufacturers don't just make spin on bypass filters to replace the factory filter. I use a Fleetguard LF9027 bypass filter on my 7.3, just spin it on. No kit or system to install or worry about a hose leaking.

Keep in mind that oil filters do not work 100% of the time, they have a spring so that if there is too much pressure on the supply side the spring compresses and lets the oil bypass the filter element (this is by-pass in a bad way). This is a safety feature so if the filter is clogged the oil still moves.
The oil needs to move through the filter fast, so the external bypass filter being talked about works because oil runs through a finer filter more slowly and filters out the oil better.

I am not against these, but I had an engine with a tiny filter and decided on a "remote oil filter" attachment. Mainly because it was so hard to get to the filter. By using this I could use one of the largest automotive oil filters on the shelf instead of the tiny one. The theory being that a bigger filter will filter more, and the oil will move slower through a big filter than a small one (think of putting your thumb on the end of the garden hose and making the water move faster because the orifice is smaller).

The long hose maybe dropped the oil pressure a small amount (not good), but the hose also maybe let the oil cool off outside the engine too, so that is a good thing.

Magnets: YES.

The quality of the filter you choose makes a big difference too.

jrolls 01-12-2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarden (Post 2321815)
Thanks for the clarification. This looks like a very good compromise filter to a full out bypass system in addition to the normal engine oil filter.

I agree and did not know this 'solution' existed. I will check with Fleetgard to see if they have a fitment for my two diesels.

tjdonahoe 01-12-2020 09:57 AM

The lumber finer by pass systems went away 30 yrs ago..cat engines donít recommend them..mt last e model cat has 1.4 million miles and the head never been off..500 hp and 100,000 gross...just change oil..

Life is a Highway 01-12-2020 01:41 PM

A Ford 6.7 oil and filter change within 10 minutes will be black. The soot from direct injection with modern EGR systems is a constant battle. Soot can polish cylinder liners however it really can’t wear parts unless oil is in a saturated depleted additive state

There is not a filter made I know of that can trap soot and return new looking oil. If there was it would plug fast. Amsoil bypass filters polish oil from metal particles and chunks of carbon.

Short piston skirts redesigned compression rings closer to the top of the piston for emissions and power allow for this. A gas car guy like me hates to see this , is what it is. Oil samples are good for the facts! My truck I change at 5000-7500 and the oil is black within 10 minutes. You diesel guys get it us old gas guys are not so much liking it.

M and R 01-12-2020 02:46 PM

We had an Amsoil bypass system and Amsoil diesel synthetic oil in a 300 hp Cummins, on a 1996 Newmar Londonaire. The bypass was installed at 25,000 miles. When sold it had just over 130,000 miles. After installing the bypass I took an oil sample every 5,000 miles. I changed the filter at Cummins recommended intervals and added oil when the filter was changed. I changed the Amsoil bypass filter when dictated by oil sample results. After installing the bypass system, I did not change oil. When sold, I gave the new owner the oil sample test results, and explained the bypass system.

Military and commercial aircraft have been on oil sample condition oil change protocols for decades. I believe motor vehicles can do the same.

ITSNO60 01-13-2020 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrolls (Post 2322899)
I agree and did not know this 'solution' existed. I will check with Fleetgard to see if they have a fitment for my two diesels.

I do not think there are many made for light trucks, Fleetguard makes filters for Cat and for International and it just so happens that my engine was made by IH. (Navistar)

jrolls 01-13-2020 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITSNO60 (Post 2323136)
I do not think there are many made for light trucks, Fleetguard makes filters for Cat and for International and it just so happens that my engine was made by IH. (Navistar)

Cummins, which owns Fleetgard, does make this filter for some of the Dodge Cummins motors, but my research indicates not for Ford or GM. Nothing for my Collie which has a filter from 40 years ago. This Venturi Combo bypass filter is standard on the Coach's Cummins L9. I didn't even realize it until this thread's comments, so THX!


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