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-   -   Setting Up 30 Amp etc (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f240/setting-up-30-amp-etc-195318.html)

carpenc 05-06-2019 03:41 PM

Setting Up 30 Amp etc
 
Hi there, I am “building” my own campsite which means I need the usual 30 amp post with 2-3 “regular “ plug ins. That’s what Iv’e told the contractor but I think he needs to hear it in contractor or Electrician-ease. There is an old house on the property so electricity is available ( and has been shut off). Any translations welcome:)

Al and Missy 05-06-2019 03:50 PM

If you mean you want 2 or 3 30A plugins, that will take 90 amps of service. Either a large gauge feeder run to a distribution panel near the plugins, or separate runs from the house to each. The electrician should know how to size the wire depending on the length and the current.

The receptacles you want are:
https://www.zoro.com/hubbell-wiring-...yABEgLrAvD_BwE

or similar. Your electrician should be able to select a box for mounting them. You'll want one suitable for use in wet areas when the trailer is plugged in.

Al

carpenc 05-06-2019 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al and Missy (Post 2238705)
If you mean you want 2 or 3 30A plugins, that will take 90 amps of service. Either a large gauge feeder run to a distribution panel near the plugins, or separate runs from the house to each. The electrician should know how to size the wire depending on the length and the current.

The receptacles you want are:
https://www.zoro.com/hubbell-wiring-...yABEgLrAvD_BwE

or similar. Your electrician should be able to select a box for mounting them. You'll want one suitable for use in wet areas when the trailer is plugged in.

Al



Thank you Al, I want one 30 amp plug and a few 220 (?) to run various appliances lije fans, laptops, small heaters etc outside. Thank you for the info and the link. Embarrassed I don’t know the verbiage for the other plug ins—too accustomed to just mindlessly plugging in at State Parks.

pdavitt 05-06-2019 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpenc (Post 2238720)
Thank you Al, I want one 30 amp plug and a few 220 (?) to run various appliances lije fans, laptops, small heaters etc outside. Thank you for the info and the link. Embarrassed I don’t know the verbiage for the other plug ins—too accustomed to just mindlessly plugging in at State Parks.

Whoa. Be "sure" the electrician understands that you want a 30A 120V service, plus some 15A 120V receptacles. Many home electricians assume that a 30A circuit should be at 240V. If you plug 240V into your airstream you will probably fry a lot of stuff.


Pat

TN Princess 05-06-2019 04:44 PM

the "others" for outside computer, fans, etc is 120v 20amp duplex receptacle (also called a outlet).

Titus 05-07-2019 06:34 AM

Show him the end of your power cord and the 120/125V, 60HZ, 30A sticker on the Interstate where the power cord plugs in. That should be all he needs to know.

Not sure that you'd need separate power for computer or fan - you could just use the inside or outside outlets on the Interstate. But an extra circuit (separate from the Interstate power) would be good for a portable heater. That would let you run the microwave and/or electric water heat in the Interstate and have the heater going outside.

Bill M. 05-07-2019 06:53 AM

I think if I was going to put in an outlet for a camper and was hiring an electrician I would go ahead and put in the 50 amp service. Maybe both a 30 and a 50 or use the 50 to 30 adaptor that one has to carry now anyway. And at least 1 gfi 120 outlet. It will cost more for the wire and parts but not likely to have to do it again in the near future.

A W Warn 05-07-2019 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpenc (Post 2238700)
Hi there, I am “building” my own campsite which means I need the usual 30 amp post with 2-3 “regular “ plug ins. That’s what Iv’e told the contractor but I think he needs to hear it in contractor or Electrician-ease. There is an old house on the property so electricity is available ( and has been shut off). Any translations welcome:)


You could order one of these then run over and pickup the panel for the contractor.
This is the type found in a campground. This could be mounted on the side of the old house or on a pole at your campsite.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-125...nel/1000044297

or go a cheaper route:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-30-Am...-Panel/3027569
and
https://www.lowes.com/pd/REDDOT-Meta...ver/1000405007

Mollysdad 05-07-2019 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M. (Post 2238900)
I think if I was going to put in an outlet for a camper and was hiring an electrician I would go ahead and put in the 50 amp service. Maybe both a 30 and a 50 or use the 50 to 30 adaptor that one has to carry now anyway. And at least 1 gfi 120 outlet. It will cost more for the wire and parts but not likely to have to do it again in the near future.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al and Missy (Post 2238705)
If you mean you want 2 or 3 30A plugins, that will take 90 amps of service.

One would think so, on paper, but if you look at campgrounds, they don't do that.

I was staying at a park while they rewired it. Big commercial electrician with distro boxes etc. All the sites were 50 amp, but they didn't have 50 amp x the number of sites. Maybe half of that. They claimed that there's a formula for how much power is needed for x number of sites at 50 amp each. Eventually, I was told to butt out.:blush:

They also used direct burial cable, and I would have put it in conduit.

Al and Missy 05-07-2019 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollysdad (Post 2238916)
This.


One would think so, on paper, but if you look at campgrounds, they don't do that.

I was staying at a park while they rewired it. Big commercial electrician with distro boxes etc. All the sites were 50 amp, but they didn't have 50 amp x the number of sites. Maybe half of that. They claimed that there's a formula for how much power is needed for x number of sites at 50 amp each. Eventually, I was told to butt out.:blush:

They also used direct burial cable, and I would have put it in conduit.

Actually the code allows for that. The assumption is the more outlets you have the lower the probability is that they would all be running at the full 30A rating at the same time. The derating starts at five, if I recall correctly. For just 3 there is no derating. But a box with multiple outlets, like 50 and 30 or 30 and 15 or 20 only needs to provide capacity for the higher rated receptacle.

A 30A outlet for an RV and other outlets in the same box can be fed by one 30A feeder but other outlets at other locations would have to be on a separate branch circuit, per code anyway.

Al

TG Twinkie 05-07-2019 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al and Missy (Post 2238705)
If you mean you want 2 or 3 30A plugins, that will take 90 amps of service. Either a large gauge feeder run to a distribution panel near the plugins, or separate runs from the house to each. The electrician should know how to size the wire depending on the length and the current.

The receptacles you want are:
https://www.zoro.com/hubbell-wiring-...yABEgLrAvD_BwE

or similar. Your electrician should be able to select a box for mounting them. You'll want one suitable for use in wet areas when the trailer is plugged in.

Al

Not true.
Look at the distribution panel in your home.
If you were to add up the total of each circuit breaker in the panel and compare that total to the main breaker size. There would be a significant difference.

gklott 05-07-2019 09:50 AM

Go GFCI
 
Recommend having your electrician install an Eaton CHU1N7N4NS, available via Home Depot.

Tell your electrician that this is for a recreational vehicle (NEC Article 551), and you feeder panel will provide receptacles shown in Figure 551.46(C)(1) of the 2017 NEC Handbook. Recommend that your electrician also installs a new grounding electrode (ground rod) at your outlet panel.

Strongly recommend that you provide GFCI protection for each circuit in your feeder panel. This means replacing the 30A panel breaker with:
Eaton BR 30-Amp 1-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker Model GFTCB130
and replacing the 50A breaker with:
Eaton BR 50-Amp 2-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker Model GFTCB250CS
Believe the panel above uses Eaton BR type breakers, but have your electrician verify it first. The Eaton panel above has a GFCI protected 20A receptacle.

While not yet specified in the NEC, we are sure glad we replaced our 30A and 50A breakers with GFCI. At least twice, they identified a problem with our trailer.

73/gus

cazual6 05-07-2019 09:52 AM

If the electrician doesn't know what a 30A 120v RV plug is, I am concerned for your safety.

Al and Missy 05-07-2019 09:54 AM

Is True, for his case.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie (Post 2238946)
Not true.
Look at the distribution panel in your home.
If you were to add up the total of each circuit breaker in the panel and compare that total to the main breaker size. There would be a significant difference.

See Post#10. NFPA 70 is complex. Certain services can be de-rated, each with a different formula; others cannot. 15/20A duplex receptacles are a good example. When many are combined on a branch circuit one must only account for 150VA for each while they can provide over 10 times that. Your home breaker panel is another. There are rules for what service you need to support a series of loads. You can't make general assumptions by counting breakers. You have to consider what the combination of loads are on each branch circuit fed by a breaker.

Al

TG Twinkie 05-07-2019 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al and Missy (Post 2238969)
See Post#10. NFPA 70 is complex. Certain services can be de-rated, each with a different formula; others cannot. 15/20A duplex receptacles are a good example. When many are combined on a branch circuit one must only account for 150VA for each while they can provide over 10 times that. Your home breaker panel is another. There are rules for what service you need to support a series of loads. You can't make general assumptions by counting breakers. You have to consider what the combination of loads are on each branch circuit fed by a breaker.

Al

Seems to me you were doing that when you called for 90 amps for 3 30amp receptacles.
That was my point. You don't need 90 amps for this.

PirateChris 05-07-2019 12:52 PM

Sounds like you want a standard RV power panel.

Try this link to Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-TL137...32207842&psc=1

or just google "30 Amp RV Power Panel"

this is an easy and straight forward install for a licensed electrician.

good luck

PirateChris

Al and Missy 05-07-2019 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie (Post 2238984)
Seems to me you were doing that when you called for 90 amps for 3 30amp receptacles.
That was my point. You don't need 90 amps for this.

You didn't read post 10. My information comes straight from NFPA 70. What is your source?

EOM

Al

markdoane 05-07-2019 02:09 PM

One thing your electrician will need to consider is what type of feeder you are using.

If you are on rocky soil with lots of tree roots you should use rigid galvanized pipe. You can use UF (underground feeder cable) buried 12" deep if you are only using 120v 20a service and have GFCI protection. Otherwise UF needs to be 24" deep.

If you are on sandy or loose soil you can use plastic PVC conduit buried 18" deep.

Which you choose depends on the type of soil, how long the run, and your electrician's willingness to dig a trench. He will also know if any local rules override the general conditions above.

sthrngary 05-07-2019 03:13 PM

Just My Two Cents
 
You have gotten some very good information on this topic. I actually did this to my home in Florida. The key for me was to have a on/off switch both at the 30 amp pole breaker and at the main breaker on the wall of my home. The reason for this is you never want to plug your power to your RV in while current is going through it. You plug in first, then turn on breaker.

The other issue I had was how deep to put the cord coming from the home to the 30 amp pole. We settled on three feet of a continuous line. I hope this is helpful.

Pahaska 05-07-2019 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthrngary (Post 2239073)
The key for me was to have a on/off switch both at the 30 amp pole breaker and at the main breaker on the wall of my home. The reason for this is you never want to plug your power to your RV in while current is going through it. You plug in first, then turn on breaker.

I have a 30a outlet at home. No switch. I simply plug in my surge suppressor first without the umbilical plugged in. That gives me 2 1/2 minutes to plug in the umbilical from the AI before the surge suppressor passes 120v through to its outlet. I always hear the microwave beep when the line goes hot as confirmation that I have power to the AI. I do the same at the storage yard.


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