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-   -   Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f445/water-hot-water-2018-classic-170926.html)

uncle_bob 11-16-2017 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2035130)
Hi Bud, my test run showed a 30 minute timer, like the Alde manual describes, and all the Boost function does is turn off the heat circulating pump for 30 mins, so all the heat from electric elements or gas stays in the boiler to heat shower water. Still cycles the heating water 165 - 155, preference to electric.

But that is for 2017, 3010 boiler, without Alde Flow, and Firefly interface. Since no manual for 2018 Alde 3020 or Alde Flow, who knows what is their settings.

Hi

Since the firmware is "in development", the settings this week may not be the settings next week. Consider that you have somebody like me poking at the code .... yikes !!! ..... :)

I would suggest testing things once this latest round of boards / updates / fixes / changes gets done. That way you will see what the (maybe) final configuration looks like.

Bob

ajwbarnard 11-16-2017 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2035130)
Hi Bud, my test run showed a 30 minute timer, like the Alde manual describes, and all the Boost function does is turn off the heat circulating pump for 30 mins, so all the heat from electric elements or gas stays in the boiler to heat shower water. Still cycles the heating water 165 - 155, preference to electric.

But that is for 2017, 3010 boiler, without Alde Flow, and Firefly interface. Since no manual for 2018 Alde 3020 or Alde Flow, who knows what is their settings.



According to the 2018 AS Classic Parts Book, all of the 2018ís are listed with a 3010 heater w/pump. P. 1V-2 So is this parts list incorrect? And if it is correct, why would it function different than 2017? The Alde flow an additional part specifically for the hot water, right? According to Aldeís website the flow is paired with the 3020 at first glance.

james.mileur 11-16-2017 01:51 PM

Right. If you can look for name plate data on the Alde unit, perhaps youy can narrow the field of possibilities.

paiceman 11-17-2017 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2035130)
Hi Bud, my test run showed a 30 minute timer, like the Alde manual describes, and all the Boost function does is turn off the heat circulating pump for 30 mins, so all the heat from electric elements or gas stays in the boiler to heat shower water. Still cycles the heating water 165 - 155, preference to electric.

But that is for 2017, 3010 boiler, without Alde Flow, and Firefly interface. Since no manual for 2018 Alde 3020 or Alde Flow, who knows what is their settings.


Mine turns back on after 20 minutes, I have not tested it in a while, probably the last time was February, but will once we get it out of storage in late December.

Bud

kendrick.l.j 11-18-2017 03:30 AM

James, Bud...mine tests exactly as James’s unit did. It has been holding steady at those readings since last March. Actually, I have been getting those readings since last December but until the mixing valve in mine was replaced I wasn’t getting the proper Hot:cold ratio to take an acceptable shower.
I swear I read somewhere that the 2018’s with Alde’s 3120 unit was touted to provide superior hot water over the 2017 model. Wasn’t it supposed to have a larger tank? Better output? Essentially unlimited hot water? From what I am reading here in the forum the 2018 Classics don’t appear to be any better readings than the previous model.
I do understand that all the owners who are absolutely thrilled with their units are not likely to find the forum and the forum only represents a small fraction of Airstream owners.

paiceman 11-18-2017 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j (Post 2035889)
James, Bud...mine tests exactly as Jamesís unit did. It has been holding steady at those readings since last March. Actually, I have been getting those readings since last December but until the mixing valve in mine was replaced I wasnít getting the proper Hot:cold ratio to take an acceptable shower.
I swear I read somewhere that the 2018ís with Aldeís 3120 unit was touted to provide superior hot water over the 2017 model. Wasnít it supposed to have a larger tank? Better output? Essentially unlimited hot water? From what I am reading here in the forum the 2018 Classics donít appear to be any better readings than the previous model.
I do understand that all the owners who are absolutely thrilled with their units are not likely to find the forum and the forum only represents a small fraction of Airstream owners.

The 2018's have a "pre-heat" device that warms the water and or heats the water prior to entering the boiler hot water jacket and thereby offers "continuous" hot water. CanAm in Ontario when virtually none of us with 2017s could get hot water beyond a couple of minutes and they could not with the units they sold on their own installed the old six gallon Atwood hot water heater. I believe they put it under the bathroom sink. I got a quote prior to our heading to FL and was going to take our trailer up to get it done by them, but fortunately got the system figured out and now have sufficient hot water for both of us. So, Airstream and Alde basically took CanAm's approach and either made something up or Alde already had something and started putting it in the 2018s. It appears the problems are not with the Alde, but with the communication between the Alde and the Firefly.

Bud

kendrick.l.j 11-18-2017 11:34 AM

Ok, got it. Thanksgiving

kendrick.l.j 11-18-2017 11:36 AM

Dang I hate autocorrect.

paiceman 11-18-2017 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j (Post 2036061)
Ok, got it. Thanksgiving

Well, Happy Thanksgiving to you and all.

Bud

uncle_bob 11-18-2017 04:22 PM

Hi

To spool back through the whole issue - the boost heat stuff "officially" is part of the Alde 3020 system. The AS guys use a 3010 system. Many of us have wondered just how well the boost and the 3010 would get along. To me that's still an open question. It's one of several things that an un-supervised hour or two crawling around in a 2018 Classic might answer :)

Bob

Airhead2018 11-19-2017 06:28 AM

CRAP, Did a DIY update on the Firefly panel and performed all the step-by-step instructions on the phone to install the GUI ver 3.3 and Logic Control ver 3.3 I thought no big deal. But now the Firefly panel no longer communicates with the Alde panel when calling for heat. Well called Firefly to confirm and they did plus added that the three or four wire connector going to the Firefly panel may be pinned incorrectly. So much for trying to save a trip to the dealer. CRAP!

cbburke 11-19-2017 02:06 PM

New Service Bulletin 173
 
While at my local dealership today they received a new SB on the 2018 Classic.

Subject Alde Connector.

"It has come to our attention that there may be an opportunity for a 3 pin connector to be wired incorrectly on the G6 panel in certain 2018 Classic Travel Trailers. This may cause the Alde heating system to cycle incorrectly."
Affected units were built between 1/31/2017 and 11/02/2017 with a serial number range of 538263-542982.

Charlie
2018 30' Classic (AS #4)

cbburke 11-19-2017 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman (Post 1989865)
The Alde fluid is not poisonous and tastes awful, don't ask.

Bud

There is some confusion regarding the heating fluid used in the Alde.
If you only read the online manual from Alde they talk about using ethylene glycol. In fact they talk about the new G13 which is good for 5 years between change outs. EG is the same basic fluid used in automotive applications. It is sweet tasting and is POISONOUS to man and beast.

Airstream by choice or law does not use Ethylene Glycol in the Alde. They use propylene glycol. This is the same stuff used to winterize fresh water systems in RV's. It is nontoxic and tastes bad.

Charlie

uncle_bob 11-19-2017 03:21 PM

Hi

If you read the UK / Europe versions of the Alde documentation, they *do* use the "bad stuff" in the systems over there. In both the US and Canada, they use the less bothersome (but still yucky) stuff. Alde systems go into a lot of RV's, not just Airstreams. The North America / Europe divide seems to apply to more than just the AS installs.

Bob

cbburke 11-19-2017 04:29 PM

2018 Alde Model
 
Since I have the convenience of having our coach next to the house I went out and did some crawling around my Alde.
My coach is a Sept 2017 build. It has an Alde 3010 with no evidence of a preheater in the space with it.

uncle_bob 11-20-2017 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbburke (Post 2036605)
Since I have the convenience of having our coach next to the house I went out and did some crawling around my Alde.
My coach is a Sept 2017 build. It has an Alde 3010 with no evidence of a preheater in the space with it.

Hi

Well, digging around in the 2018 manual, there is no mention of a hot water booster. The language in the brochure is a bit vague and does not mention "continuous hot water".

However if you dig into the every popular 2018 parts manual and read the whole thing (not !!) :).... back about 40 pages from the end it shows the Alde. The diagram shows the 3010 system and the Alde Flow gizmo. The drawing looks a lot like an install drawing. If so, the flow device should be under the dinette seat, and between the trailer wall and the 3010. It's on page IV-4 if you want to take a look at it. I would not be at all surprised if all labeling on the Alde flow is hidden on a surface you can't see when it's in place. :)

Bob

JimskyD 11-25-2017 10:02 AM

Changing Alde Mixing Valve Max Temp Limit
 
1 Attachment(s)
We have the same limited hot water problem on our 2018 Classic 30. Thanks for the info on how to improve the duration of the water.

A WORD OF CAUTION: I pulled off the adjustment knob on the mixing valve and rotated the stem in the direction of hotter water. I read somewhere that I needed to back the control all the way. This I did and was VERY SURPRISED when the stem unscrewed completely and water was spewing everywhere. I yelled for Sharon to turn off the pump. We mopped up the water and then I was left with the stem, a thermal element, a spring and a white plastic part with an O-ring rolling around on the floor. OK, I get it now. The instructions elsewhere said to back the stem out a maximum of 1/2 turn, not "until it stops", which it never does.

Now, how do I put this all back together again? After some googling, I found the attached exploded parts diagram for the mixing valve. I re-assembled it according to the diagram and now am back in business.

Lessons learned:

1. NEVER change the Max temp limit by more than 1/2 turn.
2. Use the attached LK550 Mixing Valve Assembly info if you ever need to put the valve back together again.

kendrick.l.j 11-26-2017 06:26 AM

Jim, somewhere back about 100 or so posts you will find examples of another Classic owner who did the very same thing about a year ago. Actually I did it twice, then it was determined that the mixing valve was faulty *did I brake it or was it broken prior to me messing with it, don’t know*. I do know of two others that also had faulty mixing valves. Airstream overnighted a new valve, easy to install, and all was good from that point on.

Kyet 12-27-2017 04:42 PM

So... Can the 2018 Classic be used for Camping???
 
Everyone speaks of being connected to power throughout except for a handful of posts. My ALDE in my previous trailer of 4 years provided plenty of hot water when boon docking. Is this a Firefly issue or is the Classic 2018 not really a camper? I am still trying to get hot water in my shower. Please, no suggestions as it has spent much time at a dealer and at JC (plus early on all of the suggestions). The first 2 weeks I owned it (on electric and before it went to the dealer to repair the AC and get heat) I had wicked hot showers. Never since.
If this unit is not set up to camp, folks looking to buy an AS unit might want to know ahead of time so they can pick a different model. I only ask because it was suggested on Airstream Addicts to a buyer who was unsatisfied and also to me by JC that "they" suggest having a generator with this model. I had never heard this or seen this in advertising for the unit and I was very transparent about my intended use. Just looking for input here as I will ask AS to take back this unit (6-7 months of still no regular ability to use my full time home) and try a different model. I prefer to boondock more than not and the style and size for full time is magnificent. I will happily follow weather because much of my work is done remotely. Can this thing Camp?

kendrick.l.j 12-27-2017 05:58 PM

Since I don’t have the 2018 Classic (I do have the 2017 Classic) I can't offer much except to say that once I got the Alde system working I haven’t had a lick of trouble. I have had mine for 1 year this month, full-timing and have even boondocked for a few days although that was never my intention with nothing to complain about. It has fully lived up to my expectations. It sad to hear that you are not thrilled with your decision. Maybe the 2018’s are significantly different, don’t know. If I ever intend to boondock for more than one day I do expect that I would need to purchase a generator, even with the solar I have, I know it wouldn’t be enough to power my AS. With all the information on the forum regarding generators I am a tad surprised that you weren’t aware that you might need one.


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