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-   -   Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f445/water-hot-water-2018-classic-170926.html)

uncle_bob 09-10-2017 03:00 PM

Hi

I believe you will run into the "safety" issue with JC or some dealers. You are running the hot water up into what is termed a hazardous region. It's still way colder than the hot water here in my home, but that's a different story (... long cold run to the shower in the dead of winter ...).

We started at "no hot water at all" in our 2017. Yes, that's an exaggeration, what we had could be called "really warm water". The dealer might have helped, we did the work all ourselves. In our case the magic mix valve did the whole trick. No need to mess with the anti-scald stuff. It is possible that learning a bit about how to operate and monitor the system also made a difference. All of that came from this thread.

Bob

paiceman 09-10-2017 03:11 PM

What Bob said. I do not believe JC will not set the system to give hot water, liability is too great. Settings outlined have worked on the 2017s. The 2018s are supposed to have supplemental booster, but if the controls are not adjusted to allow hot water there will be difference. Personally I would not waste my time going to a dealer or JC, they just won't, IMO, do it. I took mine there two days after getting it. Nice trip, met great people, did what they think works and is liability friendly. After I came back I did lots of research, etc. Talked to other customer service for another manufacturer who told me what to do. Their direction got me going right.

james.mileur 09-11-2017 08:39 AM

At a minimum, the Alde Flow should work to produce the safe hot water continuously, as advertised. And if they have subsumed the Alde control panel into the FireFly, that should control everything without spelunking the kitchen sink.

Call daily, if you go there, stand in front of Customer Service as long as it takes, make them call the Sheriff to remove you until you get satisfaction.

It just ain't right to pay for cold showers in a glamping rig.

GoinStreamin 09-11-2017 11:42 AM

Update...got wonderful technical support from customer service, this morning. After a couple of emails with pictures and a few turns of valves/knobs, we have hot water. Thanks to everyone for sharing their wisdom, from a set of Newbies. Now onto more discoveries! Happy trails everyone.

uncle_bob 09-11-2017 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinStreamin (Post 2007237)
Update...got wonderful technical support from customer service, this morning. After a couple of emails with pictures and a few turns of valves/knobs, we have hot water. Thanks to everyone for sharing their wisdom, from a set of Newbies. Now onto more discoveries! Happy trails everyone.

Hi

For the sake of others who are *very* likely to be in the exact same situation: Can you give a brief summary of which knobs and what valves?

Bob

GoinStreamin 09-11-2017 02:11 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Our 2018 Classic Alde Layout - firstly, you need to be connected to shore water. Perform this if your Alde system is configured as photos display.

Anyone referencing this post, patiently work your way through the photos. The first photo shows the view under the dinette bench, facing the door, with the 3 following photos being sectional closeups of photo 1. The AS technician asked us to locate 4 black knobs/valves. Viewing closely, there are only 3 from this angle.

Photo 5 is the view from under the dinette, opening the panel facing the rear of the trailer/bathroom. The 4th valve is hidden on this side of the unit, behind the small black hose closest to the floor, NOT the larger accordion style hose. You may need to zoom the photo for some clarity.

Picture 6 shows a view from above the hoses, closest to the unit (silver box), but it does not show the valve, which is flushed against he unit. You have to stick your hand back there and feel for it. At the point where the smaller black hose winds behind the silver, metal round piece (at the top of the elongated black s shaped hose) you will find the valve. Picture 7 shows the top of the valve. You will need to be on the floor, on your side with a flashlight. This valve needs to be turned to your left. You should hear a soft swoosh of water. It took some force. 30 minutes after shower boost initiated, we had plenty of hot water.

Hoping this helps others!

Attachment 294630Attachment 294631Attachment 294632Attachment 294633Attachment 294634Attachment 294635
Attachment 294637

GoinStreamin 09-11-2017 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinStreamin (Post 2007292)
Our 2018 Classic Alde Layout - firstly, you need to be connected to shore water. Perform this if your Alde system is configured as photos display.

Anyone referencing this post, patiently work your way through the photos. The first photo shows the view under the dinette bench, facing the door, with the 3 following photos being sectional closeups of photo 1. The AS technician asked us to locate 4 black knobs/valves. Viewing closely, there are only 3 from this angle.

Photo 5 is the view from under the dinette, opening the panel facing the rear of the trailer/bathroom. The 4th valve is hidden on this side of the unit, behind the small black hose closest to the floor, NOT the larger accordion style hose. You may need to zoom the photo for some clarity.

Picture 6 shows a view from above the hoses, closest to the unit (silver box), but it does not show the valve, which is flushed against he unit. You have to stick your hand back there and feel for it. At the point where the smaller black hose winds behind the silver, metal round piece (at the top of the elongated black s shaped hose) you will find the valve. Picture 7 shows the top of the valve. You will need to be on the floor, on your side with a flashlight. This valve needs to be turned to your left. You should hear a soft swoosh of water. It took some force. 30 minutes after shower boost initiated, we had plenty of hot water.

Hoping this helps others!

Attachment 294630Attachment 294631Attachment 294632Attachment 294633Attachment 294634Attachment 294635
Attachment 294637



Sorry, photos posted twice.

paiceman 09-11-2017 02:48 PM

Very interesting, different from 2017, but also pretty similar. Enjoy.

ajwbarnard 09-12-2017 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinStreamin (Post 2007237)
Update...got wonderful technical support from customer service, this morning. After a couple of emails with pictures and a few turns of valves/knobs, we have hot water. Thanks to everyone for sharing their wisdom, from a set of Newbies. Now onto more discoveries! Happy trails everyone.



You are the first person that had my same system that got it to work. I am not opposed to manipulating the mixing valve and have directions from AS with pictures, but somehow it didn't seem logical that the mixing valve was not giving only 15 seconds of tepid hot water and then nothing. But if what fixed yours was adjusting the mixing valve, it gives me hope that it will work. I get all the other ideas about getting the temperature up once I have continuous not hot enough water. If I get into trouble, do you know the name of the person you talked with?

james.mileur 09-12-2017 05:28 AM

Ajw, the mixing valve is a temp sensor mechanical de-vice, so anything is possible. Have you tried turning on hot water flow, then cycle mixing valve from high stop to low stop to flush and exercise the valve? The valve manipulation discussed by Going Streaming is entirely possible, given the bypass and winter drains. Did you check outdoor shower valves shut? Btw, that door traps water and the box fills up in rain on mine. Need to cut slots in the foam gasket on lower corners.

Keep after them for that Alde Flow and Fire Fly operation.

ajwbarnard 09-12-2017 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2007513)
Ajw, the mixing valve is a temp sensor mechanical de-vice, so anything is possible. Have you tried turning on hot water flow, then cycle mixing valve from high stop to low stop to flush and exercise the valve? The valve manipulation discussed by Going Streaming is entirely possible, given the bypass and winter drains. Did you check outdoor shower valves shut? Btw, that door traps water and the box fills up in rain on mine. Need to cut slots in the foam gasket on lower corners.

Keep after them for that Alde Flow and Fire Fly operation.



We did get the outdoor shower door open. It appeared to be fine. If the only alternative for us is renting a truck and taking it to get fixed, (despite paying for a warranty that included on-site service to prevent having to do this), it is probably worth the effort. Although, I would rather not break it and have no water at all.

graysailor 09-12-2017 06:19 AM

At the International Rally is MI this year I did speak to several who have the 2017,18 Classic and many did have issues with the hot water system. All problems were resolved as apparently the trailers left the factory without being set up properly and some of the dealers were not quite sure what to do about it. Eventually everything was brought up to working order.

james.mileur 09-12-2017 06:24 AM

Only, another -ly word like obviously. Never, for either, IMO.

Ajw, you may do better PM-ing Going Streaming and get on the phone and let him walk you through the valve line up. Send him a $25 gift card if it works and save several hundred bucks.

james.mileur 09-12-2017 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graysailor (Post 2007533)
At the International Rally is MI this year I did speak to several who have the 2017,18 Classic and many did have issues with the hot water system. All problems were resolved as apparently the trailers left the factory without being set up properly and some of the dealers were not quite sure what to do about it. Eventually everything was brought up to working order.

Any '18 Classic streamers there that were full up round operational? Fire Fly, Flow, and consistent heat?

Paratus 09-12-2017 07:31 AM

Going Streaming,
A bit of clarity please; are you advocating (after instruction from AS) that in addition to the mixing valve adjustment that use the "hidden" valve with a counter clockwise action to full stop? Did AS provide any detail as to what this valve functions?

How long, measured as minutes is your hot water?

Thank you

james.mileur 09-12-2017 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinStreamin (Post 2007292)
Our 2018 Classic Alde Layout - firstly, you need to be connected to shore water.

Picture 7 shows the top of the valve. You will need to be on the floor, on your side with a flashlight. This valve needs to be turned to your left. You should hear a soft swoosh of water. It took some force.
Attachment 294637

So, you repositioned one valve in picture 7? Or do all the other valves need to be repositioned to match the photos.

I found in '17 Classic plumbing, some quarter throw valves opened to the left, some to the right. They use both kinds. Did you shut the valve in picture 7, (handle perpendicular to the tubing) or open (handle in line with tubing)?

And does the system work using the water pump or only on shore water?

paiceman 09-12-2017 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paratus (Post 2007557)
Going Streaming,
A bit of clarity please; are you advocating (after instruction from AS) that in addition to the mixing valve adjustment that use the "hidden" valve with a counter clockwise action to full stop? Did AS provide any detail as to what this valve functions?

How long, measured as minutes is your hot water?

Thank you

After AS worked on our trailer, filled the Alde which was not full and dealer did not do prep on the trailer, we still had limited heat and virtually no hot water. So, I did some digging, found a trailer mfg which had been using the system, I called their CS department and the rep graciously worked me thru the process to secure heat, by bleeding the system and how to do it along with hot water and how to make the necessary adjustments which Airstream, I am sure for liability reasons, will not publish nor will they do for you. Go to the Alde thread in this Classic area and there you will find complete details on how to do it and based on our situation as well as others who have done same, it works and works fine.

Bud

uncle_bob 09-12-2017 12:52 PM

Hi

I've had the same "hot water safety" debate on several homes we have bought. It's not at all unique to RV's or to AS. I've seen people advocate numbers below 110F as the "maximum safe" hot water temperature in mid summer. Sorry, but in mid winter in snow country .... not going to work. 105 F at the bathroom sink in the basement with no anti-scald gizmo may well be 75 F in the shower.

Depending on who you talk to and what lecture they got, coming up with info about how to twist this or that setting knob may be trivial or impossible. I've run into it with plumbers, contractors, and RV guys.

At least on our trailer, the max temperature out of any faucet without pulling the knob on the mixing valve was below 100F. Yes, that's safe. Maybe not as safe as 90F, but it's safe. (you could still get heat stroke I suppose ...).

I think it's wonderful that we are protected if we let straight hot water run on us for more than five hours. I can't say I've ever seen a hot water system anywhere that will run full bore for five hours, but we're safe. Even for me, enough beer to pass out under the hot water faucet for five hours is a lot of beer.

Simple solution: "Please be careful with our hot water, it's set to be very hot".

Be aware that over 130F you *do* get into a region where burns are a very legitimate issue. Above 140F there may not be enough time to react to a wide open valve, beer or no beer. Of course if you can get continuous 140+F hot water out of your Alde with any settings, I'd love to hear how you did it. :)

I've spent enough time with a good dose of third degree burns to know not to make light of any sort of burns. This is *not* a suggestion that getting burned is in any way fun. If nothing else wandering around bandaged up like the mummy gets you a lot of odd stares .... I have empirical data ....

Chart with all the disclaimers concerning kids and the elderly:

https://www.legionellaprevention.org/burn.html

Bob

paiceman 09-12-2017 01:07 PM

If one reads back thru most of my posts on the hot water I do advise if one travels with children or grandchildren do not make the adjustments OR make sure you or someone is there to moderate what comes out of the shower. Yes, at 145F the water is hot enough to burn, although I doubt our facet temp is that hot, the Alde boiler is. I have been able to get it higher just for fun, but don't need it. Right about 130F gives us as I've mentioned sufficient hot water, hot nor warm, for two showers.

Bud

kendrick.l.j 09-16-2017 05:15 AM

Paramus, you asked "how long of a hot shower measured in minutes." My answer is 12.
That is after I reset the mixing valve and did all the other adjustments previously described in the Much Ado Alde thread. As seen in my brief bio, I have a '17 Classic. I can tell you that JC and probably most dealers will tell you that it is not possible to have 12 minutes of hot water for showers but it is. After making all the adjustments I now need to turn the handle on the shower down just a tad at the beginning of the shower to bring in a bit of cold water.


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