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-   -   Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f445/water-hot-water-2018-classic-170926.html)

switz 08-09-2017 12:10 AM

The Truma "AquaGo Comfort" is actually a smaller installed volume that the original 6 gallon Dometic. It is installed under the sink in the 2014 Classic bathroom and behind the curb side rear wheel under the bed where the Dometic was installed on our 2015 23D International Serenity.

When the Federally mandated seven years parts availability time period expires on these new Classics, I wonder what will happen when these extremely limited production computers and displays die that run the entire trailer in the 2017 & 2018 Classics?

ajwbarnard 08-09-2017 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard (Post 1988836)
We took delivery of our 2018 30' Classic yesterday. We are experiencing some issues using water and hot water. It certainly could be a newbie user issue.

We are connected to city water and electric. The trailer had a full tank of fresh water on delivery. We connected to city water and it is showing 40 psi of pressure on the regulator. To get enough pressure, we have the water pump also running. Is this normal/acceptable?

We have turned on the water heater. (The first time, it tripped the breaker at the pole because one of the AC units was running.) This morning we tried water heater again and actually added the shower boost and we are only getting seconds of warmish water in the sink faucet. Is there something we are doing wrong?

All advice welcome!



https://Much Ado About ALDE<br /> <br...d.php?t=162472

uncle_bob 08-09-2017 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz (Post 1990841)
The Truma "AquaGo Comfort" is actually a smaller installed volume that the original 6 gallon Dometic. It is installed under the sink in the 2014 Classic bathroom and behind the curb side rear wheel under the bed where the Dometic was installed on our 2015 23D International Serenity.

When the Federally mandated seven years parts availability time period expires on these new Classics, I wonder what will happen when these extremely limited production computers and displays die that run the entire trailer in the 2017 & 2018 Classics?

Hi

..... you sit down with a $30 single board computer and reprogram the whole thing so it actually works right :)

There's surprisingly little "smart" in the Firefly system. The main thing it does is serial multiplexing of the control panels. There are a bunch of wires and connectors. There is some power distribution. It (struggles) chats with a limited number of other devices. Most of what it talks to, we don't have and don't care about.

Is it an afternoon project to replace one? Not hardly. It'll take a couple months to run down all the information on this and that. Once you have the info, the size of the project can be estimated with some accuracy. As a guess, it's a year from start to finish.

Bob

rmkrum 08-09-2017 11:39 AM

Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic
 
As a person who makes his living with computers, I must admit I'm pleased that the most complicated control system in my current AS is the heater thermostat. The rest of it is controlled by simple toggle switches. I agree a $39 processor and a lot of reverse engineering could cure the Firefly issue, but I have an AS to go camping, not to get frustrated with gratuitous automation.

This is getting a bit complex for the 'ordinary user'. I've reached the point in my life that I no longer have the patience to painstakingly fiddle with yet another badly done automation system.

james.mileur 08-09-2017 12:34 PM

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. Al Einstein

uncle_bob 08-09-2017 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmkrum (Post 1990979)
As a person who makes his living with computers, I must admit I'm pleased that the most complicated control system in my current AS is the heater thermostat. The rest of it is controlled by simple toggle switches. I agree a $39 processor and a lot of reverse engineering could cure the Firefly issue, but I have an AS to go camping, not to get frustrated with gratuitous automation.

This is getting a bit complex for the 'ordinary user'. I've reached the point in my life that I no longer have the patience to painstakingly fiddle with yet another badly done automation system.

Hi

Well, this all *assumes* that the Firefly boards somehow go away. That may well happen in 2 years or it may happen in 30 years. My guess is that it's longer than 2 years. There certainly are similar industrial systems that I can still get parts for decades later.

Bob

paiceman 08-10-2017 05:51 AM

Firefly systems are in a number of different RV products which are assembled by different manufacturers. They are not an Airstream exclusive and I've seen them in more and more different types of RVs. So, just a wild guess, they are not going away.

In the 2017 if it completely "failed", there are a number of items which in time could be connected to bypass the firefly and set as a switch or simply run as is: Inverter, fresh water pump, lights would be the big one, but I still think doable. The gauges I don't care about if it fails. And if I remember that is about it. But, I don't think they are going away and I don't think regardless of federal mandate Airstream will walk away after seven years. The company I was involved in still retains and or has access to parts for products we made back in the early sixties which were discontinued in the late sixties - simply for customer service.

uncle_bob 08-10-2017 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman (Post 1991399)
Firefly systems are in a number of different RV products which are assembled by different manufacturers. They are not an Airstream exclusive and I've seen them in more and more different types of RVs. So, just a wild guess, they are not going away.

In the 2017 if it completely "failed", there are a number of items which in time could be connected to bypass the firefly and set as a switch or simply run as is: Inverter, fresh water pump, lights would be the big one, but I still think doable. The gauges I don't care about if it fails. And if I remember that is about it. But, I don't think they are going away and I don't think regardless of federal mandate Airstream will walk away after seven years. The company I was involved in still retains and or has access to parts for products we made back in the early sixties which were discontinued in the late sixties - simply for customer service.

Hi

The tank info comes out of the SeeLevel panel. (it's under the kitchen sink). As long as you can keep that going, you don't need the Firefly to get the data.

Unfortunately there are a lot of ways around the various government mandated support time limits. I would count more on "good will" than on those laws.

My guess is that ten years from now, you will have much nicer options than the Firefly. Rather than rebuild or replace with same/same, you would pop in the "newer and better" version. Just as you hop on YouTube now to find out all the details, I'm sure you will be able to hop on whatever we all are using then to get it all hooked up.

Bob

Captain Hank 08-10-2017 08:38 AM

AJ,

I would stay in touch with Customer Service at JC. They need to know there is a problem. If you could take your trailer to JC, the Techs. in the shop are good. Most Dealers are not up to speed on the 2017 Alde & Firefly systems. Now there is a new system for 2018. Don't give up, once the issues are solved, you will enjoy your trailer.

uncle_bob 08-10-2017 10:36 AM

Hi

If you talk to the tech's working on the trailers, most of what they have learned about the Alde has been from other RV brands that also use the system. None of the dealers have seen enough of the AS systems for all the techs to have worked on one. I've seen the same thing on cars and trucks. It's hardly unique to this situation.

Bob

ajwbarnard 09-09-2017 07:29 PM

An update: Service guy verified what we were experiencing with hot water. Using the panel under the sink, he could not get any more hot water than we did. We can get the heat more quickly (20 min 10 degree warmup) if we use propane only with all of the heaters even hot to the touch throughout the trailer. To him, this would indicate that you shouldn't need to bleed the system and he wouldn't do it. He looked at the reservoir behind the panel in the bathroom and it said it was at mid level. (We do hear it gurgle in there when the heat is on.) I had him look at the service bulletin that AS had sent me as a potential fix for hot water. He didn't think that it would fix it either. And didn't do it. He thought it needs a new mixing valve. It doesn't make sense to me. If I had lukewarm water consistently, it would make sense that I might need a new mixing valve, but it seems like the system is not calling for hot water or stops immediately after attempting to give hot water. Since the dealer does not expect to get the approval for any warranty work within the month and a half that is left our campground closes, we are looking at renting a truck and driving to Ohio to get it fixed.

paiceman 09-09-2017 09:42 PM

A service rep who advised not to bleed the system (1) really does not understand the system (2) does not wan to spend the extra five minutes it takes to open each valve and bleed the air out and close. Not sure it will fix your issue, but bleeding the system several times after initial purchase or drain and refill after two years is what got our system working.

Bud

james.mileur 09-10-2017 08:42 AM

Ajw, when you say, no key works for the outside shower, do you mean none fit, or can't turn? Some doors like that you have to press in to compress the gasket to turn the lock.

james.mileur 09-10-2017 08:49 AM

Just looked at the UK manual for Alde 3020 boiler. No clues to help. Nothing online says the current draw of the Alde Flow, but I suspect, on 30 amp service, an A/C and Flow will trip the breaker. I'd call AS everyday at 9375966111 until they provide you an Alde Flow and Alde 3020 manual. If not available online, surely, Shirley, AS didn't buy the farm again from Alde this year without documentation, training, etc, and at least got the manuals and/or can get them from Alde US. Call everyday, Daniel, Gretchen, ask for Customer Service Supervisor. Every 2018 Classic Owner should not have to drive to JC to have hot water.

ajwbarnard 09-10-2017 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2006671)
Ajw, when you say, no key works for the outside shower, do you mean none fit, or can't turn? Some doors like that you have to press in to compress the gasket to turn the lock.



That was the other thing on our list that did get fixed. The key would go in the lock but would not turn. The service guy did get that to work as well. I think that is what he did although we had tried that, nut must have been too timid with our pushing.)

Small things taken care of. Big things not...Alde heat and hot water recommended solution new mixing valve, no solution to heat), motor on power awning no longer shutting off (new motor), screen door not latching, main door only latching with normal force 75% of time (new door), short in overhead cabinet (new light). I am not optimistic about the Alde solutions or the prospect of a new door. The screen door clearly is not latching and probably interferes with normal operation of main door. The awning motor, maybe. But the guy didn't even know the name of the awning company.

ajwbarnard 09-10-2017 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2006676)
Just looked at the UK manual for Alde 3020 boiler. No clues to help. Nothing online says the current draw of the Alde Flow, but I suspect, on 30 amp service, an A/C and Flow will trip the breaker. I'd call AS everyday at 9375966111 until they provide you an Alde Flow and Alde 3020 manual. If not available online, surely, Shirley, AS didn't buy the farm again from Alde this year without documentation, training, etc, and at least got the manuals and/or can get them from Alde US. Call everyday, Daniel, Gretchen, ask for Customer Service Supervisor. Every 2018 Classic Owner should not have to drive to JC to have hot water.



Thanks for the contact info. My husband is planning on calling AS this week.

uncle_bob 09-10-2017 10:49 AM

Hi

If you still have a mixing valve on the 2018's - run through the adjustment on it. A *lot* of people seem to think that you just twist the knob and that's it. Unfortunately that's not the whole story. The knob stops way before you get to where you need to be. In the typical "as delivered" setup the water will be safe at any setting. It's not going to scald anybody. It also will be to cold for a proper shower. You need to pull the knob off of the valve. Getting to the right setting may take several full rotations. That can't happen with the knob restricting you to one partial rotation. The final setting likely will be a bit hot by the standard safety guidelines. Only you can decide if that's ok. Some service guys will not go past the "quick twist of the knob" because of the hypothetical safety risk ....

Bob

paiceman 09-10-2017 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2006744)
Hi

If you still have a mixing valve on the 2018's - run through the adjustment on it. A *lot* of people seem to think that you just twist the knob and that's it. Unfortunately that's not the whole story. The knob stops way before you get to where you need to be. In the typical "as delivered" setup the water will be safe at any setting. It's not going to scald anybody. It also will be to cold for a proper shower. You need to pull the knob off of the valve. Getting to the right setting may take several full rotations. That can't happen with the knob restricting you to one partial rotation. The final setting likely will be a bit hot by the standard safety guidelines. Only you can decide if that's ok. Some service guys will not go past the "quick twist of the knob" because of the hypothetical safety risk ....

Bob


To add to Bob's post, be careful, if one turns this knob too hard it will break internally and water will go every place. Happened to someone I was helping on the internet. I also, no longer have a scald device on our shower adjustment, I moved the set screw to fully disengage. This is counter intuitive, especially to engineers, my brother included but it works. By doing the two adjustments we have had and have about 10 minutes of nice warm water for two showers. By doing these adjustments one has an open flow of 140F hot water through the water pipes to the shower, as such one can turn the demand for hot water down at the shower handle and thereby actually conserve on the hot water being produced by the boiler. When we want it super hot for a longer period we adjust the Alde setting to produce more hot water and wait ten minutes, then my wife can wash her hair and I can then take a nice shower. Technicians and the factory will not do these adjustments I am sure for liability reasons as the water is scalding hot, which is why we don't use as much.

Works for us and some others who have adopted this system of adjustments.

Enjoy

GoinStreamin 09-10-2017 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.mileur (Post 2006676)
Just looked at the UK manual for Alde 3020 boiler. No clues to help. Nothing online says the current draw of the Alde Flow, but I suspect, on 30 amp service, an A/C and Flow will trip the breaker. I'd call AS everyday at 9375966111 until they provide you an Alde Flow and Alde 3020 manual. If not available online, surely, Shirley, AS didn't buy the farm again from Alde this year without documentation, training, etc, and at least got the manuals and/or can get them from Alde US. Call everyday, Daniel, Gretchen, ask for Customer Service Supervisor. Every 2018 Classic Owner should not have to drive to JC to have hot water.



We r in the same position. Took possession of our 2018 classic in mid-June and haven't had any hot water past the initial 15 seconds. Already worked the mixing valve knob and checked the glycol. Haven't attempted the scalding settings on the individual faucets. It seems ridiculous we cant get anyone from customer service to help us, even after several phone calls. Probably headed to JC - second visit, ugh!

kendrick.l.j 09-10-2017 02:35 PM

Goin, JC will not make the necessary adjustments as discussed above. JC will tell to you that it isn't possible to achieve 10 minute HOT showers but it is. I did everything that Bud and James suggested including removing the anti-scald set screw and I have lovely hot showers for me and my mom but you are certainly welcome to drive to JC, after all it is yours to do with as you choose. None of the steps were difficult but they were time consuming. None required any special tools. Just saying


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