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-   -   Water/Hot Water 2018 Classic (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f445/water-hot-water-2018-classic-170926.html)

paiceman 08-07-2017 10:39 AM

The Alde fluid is not poisonous and tastes awful, don't ask.

Bud

uncle_bob 08-07-2017 07:30 PM

Hi

We use the "shower boost" at dishwashing time ... ok, so we're weird. You already knew than didn't you? :)

====

My guess is that the firmware updates to make the Alde and Firefly "compatible" don't quite work yet. I'd be less than honest if I claimed that *none* of my firmware projects ever came in over-schedule. It's a common problem, even in companies that know way more about it than Airstream (obviously) does.

Bob

ajwbarnard 08-07-2017 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojoe7009 (Post 1989200)
According to the Alde manual if you are hooked to shore power and turn on the gas as well, the system will prioritize the electric and not use the gas. That has been my experience. We had major hot water issues after delivery like many others with 2017's. We tried everything including having the electric and gas on at the same time. It will use the electric and not the gas...at least in our unit.
Kudos go to Jon at Airstream and the service team at JC. They stuck with me and went out of there way to get the system working correctly. We now have plenty of hot water when hooked to shore power.



So what did JC do? Is this something you did over the phone?

ajwbarnard 08-07-2017 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1989637)
After reading a number of issues about the OEM pressure regulator, I continue to use my Valtera regulator which is set for 50-55 P.S.I.
It not only ensures that the supplied regulator is working in a safer pressure zone; it also protects the hose from bursting due to campground overpressures.
My main sink was not giving much flow, so I removed the aeriator from the faucet. Much better flow.:wally:

Another thing to check, is that the outside shower taps are fully closed. They can bypass hot and cold water, giving warm.



Right now, we can't get to our outdoor shower. None of the keys we have open the door. Working on that issue, too, but not as crucial as hot water.

ajwbarnard 08-07-2017 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy-rver (Post 1989658)
So, we picked up our 2018 Classic on Jun 20/17. Since then we have spent 18 nights at the dealer and now most things on the trailer work. Hot water and heating is not one of them, at least by using the Firefly Panel. We have developed a work around that makes the trailer at least live able. The Firefly (GUI Version 2.4, Logic Controller Version 2.4) panel and the Alde panel do not seem to work together. We found the Alde panel kept turning off, no heat no hot water. So here are the steps we have taken.
1/ Open the 20 breaker on the trailers panel that supplies 120 v power to the Alde (we are at a park the only has 30 A service).
2/ On the Firefly panel insure that gas, electric, Water Heater, Heater and Shower Boost are all off.
3/ On the Alde panel (after turning it back on after attempts to use Firefly panel) hit the menu button and set the temp to desired setting, ours is at 71 F.
4/ Hit the the gas on button.
5/ Hit the button that looks like a wrench.
6/ Hit upper left button (looks like a clock) and set the time and day.
7/ Hit ok and then hit upper center button the looks like a half moon and set the night time temp. Our is set to start at 22:00 and stop at 05:00 at 68 F.
8/ At 20 min before shower time hit Menu, then second plus sign from top (turns on shower boast).

Now, all you have to do is shower quickly and if you keep moving you can just make it before you run out of hot water. As for Alde Flow it seems to be a red box that does nothing at all. Anyway, keep messing with it and be sure to let Daniel R. Snider at dsnider@airstream.com how you are making out now that you are part of the research and development team.

Attachment 291503



We found the Alde panel under the sink. Played with it, but have not tried this yet. I will be sure and email Daniel Snider!

ajwbarnard 08-07-2017 08:00 PM

We are still working on the water issues. We have gotten rid of the pressure regulator and I have pressure that I can live with. The Alde heating system is working well. It warmed the trailer up on the past couple of mornings. And it is not as if there is no hot water being produced. I had about 20 seconds from each of the faucets today, but it continues to go cold. We do our the dealer involved, but hope they know what they are doing or know where/who to talk to about it. I will read back through the older Alde post. I didn't know if 2017 and 2018's would have similar issues with hot water since this is supposedly a 2018 feature. We did find the mixing valve and the hot water that we are now getting intermittently is hotter than it was. The Alde panel under the sink was reading 48 degrees. I like hot water, so I will be upping that number. But what controls the temperature, the mixing valve or the software? And I will look at the anti-scald. I don't think right now that is a problem except from the hot water I am boiling to wash dishes.

mojoe7009 08-07-2017 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard (Post 1990191)
So what did JC do? Is this something you did over the phone?



They took the trailer to JC and kept it for 10 weeks to fix all my issues, the major one being the hot water. Honestly, I have yet to get the specifics of what they did to fix it, but we just got back from a 3 week trip and had plenty of hot water the whole time. I will say that Airstream and Alde are in complete and total denial that Bud (paiceman) and Lauri are getting 10+ minutes of hot water. I suggested that they reach out to them and find out what they did, specifically, to fix the issue. That has never happened. They just don't believe it no matter what you say to them. They monitor this forum and they have seen their posts but refuse to reach to the real "field testers". At this point I am not concerned with that because I, thankfully, have sufficient hot water.

paiceman 08-08-2017 05:15 AM

I have as I've stated a number of times on here and to others sufficient hot water on a 2017 Alde system for two nice showers of up to 10-14 minutes total before the water starts to cool down. Like mojoe7009 I am no concerned with what is the proper procedure as prescribed by Alde and JC as I tried the procedures and had limited success at best.

My Alde mixing valve is set to max, not simply turned to max, but taken off, put back on at minimum, the rotated to max and done again until it can turn no more. Then on the Kohler shower anti-scald I've basically put it out of service. If there are young children using the shower on their own I would not advise this second action be taken as our hot water is in excess of 140 degrees F.

That finished the adjustments made to the Alde Hot Water system and we, as I've stated, have sufficient hot water for whatever we need to do.

ajwbarnard are you certain that the Alde panel is what is under your kitchen sink? I ask because in our unit, the 2017 Classic the panel under the sink is the AS battery and tank monitor panel. Seems like an odd place to put a panel one needs to access, read and push buttons on.

Bud

ajwbarnard 08-08-2017 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman (Post 1990336)
I have as I've stated a number of times on here and to others sufficient hot water on a 2017 Alde system for two nice showers of up to 10-14 minutes total before the water starts to cool down. Like mojoe7009 I am no concerned with what is the proper procedure as prescribed by Alde and JC as I tried the procedures and had limited success at best.

My Alde mixing valve is set to max, not simply turned to max, but taken off, put back on at minimum, the rotated to max and done again until it can turn no more. Then on the Kohler shower anti-scald I've basically put it out of service. If there are young children using the shower on their own I would not advise this second action be taken as our hot water is in excess of 140 degrees F.

That finished the adjustments made to the Alde Hot Water system and we, as I've stated, have sufficient hot water for whatever we need to do.

ajwbarnard are you certain that the Alde panel is what is under your kitchen sink? I ask because in our unit, the 2017 Classic the panel under the sink is the AS battery and tank monitor panel. Seems like an odd place to put a panel one needs to access, read and push buttons on.

Bud



I don't think you are supposed to use it. I think your are supposed to use the main panel. This is on the back wall behind the water hoses for the kitchen faucet and has all the options another person talked about and match the Alde manual we found on line (plus an EXT option). I think it is what the main panel above the dinette is talking to when you push the options for the Alde system. If the whole thing didn't work, no heat or hot water ever, I would say the mechanical aspect of the system had a problem. I am more inclined to believe we have a software issue.

james.mileur 08-08-2017 06:30 AM

Just a couple of random dots to connect, the 48 under the sink is probably your cold water feed to the Alde Flow pre heater? The short burst of hot water then to cold, I'll bet a liquid confectionary, is a run of hot water in the tubing that is quickly followed by the mixed colder water from your outdoor shower valves open with the handheld button stopping flow out of the nozzle. You supposedly have a 3.5 gallon Sanitary water jacket, at about the same temp as your heating water and a pre heater, gas and/or electric? Try see if any Alde model numbers or names in any of your literature, including the Window Sticker.

Have you run through the Alde panel menus to find your Heat and Sanitary Temps?

switz 08-08-2017 10:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
We retrofitted the Truma "AquaGo comfort" model (German made) propane fueled instant on water heater in both our 2014 31' Classic and 2015 23D International Serenity. There is unlimited hot water with the only constraint the size of the gray water tank. If the drain valve of the gray water tank were left open, one could take as long of a shower as desired!

The only control inside the trailer is the on/off switch and the only control in the unit accessed from outside is the switch that selects "eco" - off - "comfort" modes. It requires a little 12Vdc for the control circuit board. The unit, if powered on, will keep itself from freezing. Newer models can do that with 12Vdc.

We covered the white door with Airstream aluminum skin riveted to the door and painted the frame silver. We also installed a screen against mud daubers building a nest inside the unit.

james.mileur 08-08-2017 10:15 AM

Is that under the bathroom sink on the classic?

Happy-rver 08-08-2017 10:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard (Post 1990342)
I don't think you are supposed to use it. I think your are supposed to use the main panel. This is on the back wall behind the water hoses for the kitchen faucet and has all the options another person talked about and match the Alde manual we found on line (plus an EXT option). I think it is what the main panel above the dinette is talking to when you push the options for the Alde system. If the whole thing didn't work, no heat or hot water ever, I would say the mechanical aspect of the system had a problem. I am more inclined to believe we have a software issue.



It seem to me that the 18 is different enough from the 17 that at least some of the issues with 17ís do not apply. I cannot see how removing the anti scalding device would increase the volume of hot water. I have found the water is more than hot enough at the start of the shower, you just have to keep turning the valve from 8:00 to the top 12:00 as you shower and by final rinse off the water is at tap temperature. I am now experimenting with partly closing the shut off valve on the shower handle to slow down the flow, less flow less hot water used in the mix.

As for air in the system, JC and the dealers are all over that one. I keep checking the reservoir and the level is good. I find you just have to keep draining the hot water tank to keep the air pocket, l have been doing it every weekend. The big issue is the Fireflyís inability to operate the Alde panel. There is a definite programming problem. I have found it results in three problems, it turns Alde off, it changes the temperature set point to something like 48F if you turn shower boost on or 84F if you turn on heat. I have e-mailed Firefly with what I think is an easy question to answer. Roughly, how long is it going to take to reprogram? If it's months than I am ok with managing by going straight to the Alde panel and ignoring the Firefly to manage heat and hot water. If it's many months or years than I feel Airstream is on the hook to relocate the Alde panel to a user friendly location.

Now, the Alde Flow, looks great on their web page, just doesn't do what it's supposed to. Could it be that it's hooked to a 3010 and their page says it works well with a 3020? I know I have lots of water and propane so by their statements I should not run out of hot water. Q



Attachment 291653

Happy-rver 08-08-2017 10:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by happy-rver (Post 1990475)
it seem to me that the 18 is different enough from the 17 that at least some of the issues with 17ís do not apply. I cannot see how removing the anti scalding device would increase the volume of hot water. I have found the water is more than hot enough at the start of the shower, you just have to keep turning the valve from 8:00 to the top 12:00 as you shower and by final rinse off the water is at tap temperature. I am now experimenting with partly closing the shut off valve on the shower handle to slow down the flow, less flow less hot water used in the mix.

As for air in the system, jc and the dealers are all over that one. I keep checking the reservoir and the level is good. I find you just have to keep draining the hot water tank to keep the air pocket, l have been doing it every weekend. The big issue is the fireflyís inability to operate the alde panel. There is a definite programming problem. I have found it results in three problems, it turns alde off, it changes the temperature set point to something like 48f if you turn shower boost on or 84f if you turn on heat. I have e-mailed firefly with what i think is an easy question to answer. Roughly, how long is it going to take to reprogram? If it's months than i am ok with managing by going straight to the alde panel and ignoring the firefly to manage heat and hot water. If it's many months or years than i feel airstream is on the hook to relocate the alde panel to a user friendly location.

Now, the alde flow, looks great on their web page, just doesn't do what it's supposed to. Could it be that it's hooked to a 3010 and their page says it works well with a 3020? I know i have lots of water and propane so by their statements i should not run out of hot water. Q



Attachment 291653



Attachment 291654

paiceman 08-08-2017 01:19 PM

A number of people including an Airstream tech out west told me that by adjusting the Kohler anti-scald to basically non function status would use up more hot water faster. I've tried explaining to the tech and others, the tech finally got it, that the opposite is true as when much hotter hot water is available, much less is needed for a comfortable shower. Both adjustments need to be done for this to work. That said, I do suspect you have as you stated a glitch in software between the Alde and Firefly. Sounds like a trip to the factory is going to be in your future.

kendrick.l.j 08-08-2017 02:16 PM

SsWITZ.....I love your set up. I have heard about a system like yours and it sure sounds like heaven. Maybe some day after I have used up the warranty but for right now I am very happy with my 14 minutes of steamy shower.

uncle_bob 08-08-2017 06:00 PM

Hi

If it *is* a firmware update at some future point, that's going to involve (re)programming hardware. I'd bet a case of beer that there are zero dealers in the world set up with that hardware. Then there's the need for training in it's use .... so much fun !!!!

The details for the bored:

We get used to things like iPhones and PC's. They come with an upgrade / update package already built in. That's not the case with a little device like an Alde panel or the Firefly. Upgrading them is more like redoing the ECU in your car. Maybe they re-shoot it in the field. Maybe they swap it out and send the old one back to the factory. Either way, a major pain.

Bob

ajwbarnard 08-08-2017 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 1990688)
Hi

If it *is* a firmware update at some future point, that's going to involve (re)programming hardware. I'd bet a case of beer that there are zero dealers in the world set up with that hardware. Then there's the need for training in it's use .... so much fun !!!!

The details for the bored:

We get used to things like iPhones and PC's. They come with an upgrade / update package already built in. That's not the case with a little device like an Alde panel or the Firefly. Upgrading them is more like redoing the ECU in your car. Maybe they re-shoot it in the field. Maybe they swap it out and send the old one back to the factory. Either way, a major pain.

Bob


Especially for someone like me who are using the trailer on a seasonal site as a "second" home without a tow vehicle to get a jump on retirement plans. Actually moving it anywhere would be difficult.

uncle_bob 08-08-2017 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard (Post 1990694)
Especially for someone like me who are using the trailer on a seasonal site as a "second" home without a tow vehicle to get a jump on retirement plans. Actually moving it anywhere would be difficult.

Hi

Keep in mind that the whole "firmware upgrade" thing is just a crazy theory at this point. There are other possibilities.

Bob

Bougeois 08-08-2017 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1989639)
GLYCOL??? in Water system????:confused:

DEADLY COMBO! :angry:

REALLY, REALLY FLUSH IT OUT!!

OR PAY THE FUNERAL COSTS!!:mad:



It's a heat exchanger. They don't mix. Plus it makes the water sweet!!!


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