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-   -   Safety Chains: Cross or Not to Cross (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f464/safety-chains-cross-or-not-to-cross-164153.html)

dznf0g 03-20-2017 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennisr (Post 1925233)
You can twist the chain if it is to long as in touching the ground but you do need slack in the chain.

Please Google this for facts. Twisting reduces the breaking strength, which compromises their effectiveness in their intended purpose. Shorten to their proper length is the only answer.

thiel 03-20-2017 09:33 PM

From my youth I seem to remember that there are two types of hooks often put on chains... one type is for hooking onto a metal loop like we have on our tow vehicles and the other type is for hooking onto the CHAIN ITSELF. Seems you could put that second type of hook on, thread the chain through the loop and hook it back on itself.

Is this the difference between a "slip" hook and a "grab" hook?

And thus I have exhausted all of my knowledge of chains. Anybody out there to illuminate or debunk the above?

graysailor 03-20-2017 11:35 PM

They would only serve 1/2 the purpose if not crossed. Always crossX

SteveSueMac 03-21-2017 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1925095)
Not much probably...other than the law in many (all??) states says they gotta be crossed.



Mine's the same way. You really can't cross them from that configuration without sort of twisting them together.

The Colonel 03-21-2017 07:23 AM

I'm late getting in discussion. I've always crossed chains for the reasons explained several times in this thread.

m.hony 03-21-2017 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1925224)
No, a clevis hook is a hook for the TV end of the chain which attaches to the chain with a clevis pin. Yes, you could use a threaded link. Each piece, hook or link, should be rated at or above trailer gvwr for breaking strength.



Is "Grade 8" a term used to describe the strength/weight capacity of chains and hooks?
I really believe the weak link will be where the chains are attached to the trailer tongue/a-frame.

dznf0g 03-21-2017 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony (Post 1925435)
Is "Grade 8" a term used to describe the strength/weight capacity of chains and hooks?
I really believe the weak link will be where the chains are attached to the trailer tongue/a-frame.

Not that I've ever run across. There is a numeric reference to the material used as "43" among other numbers. I really haven't been able to correlate that to their "ratings". This is what I find frustrating with chains and their "accessories"....some listings online and the boxes they come in use terms like "rating" "capacity", etc. These are generic terms and don't tell use if they are referencing working load or breaking strength (tensile strength?).

It is important for us to know both working load and breaking strength in order to comply with the requirement or standard of using a single component or single chain with the breaking strength of at least the gvwr of the trailer. I get nervous when the item is marked, "capacity - 5000 pounds". What does that mean? Is that working load?...if so the breaking strength is between 2 to 3 times that spec, and it would be fine for my 10K trailer....but the package doesn't use proper terminology. I have found bulk boxes of chain which are as vague as the above terminology, as well as some that have working load, breaking strength, as well as the numeric "material coding??" That is where the frustrating hunting and shopping takes place.

This should help with your questions relative to material grading:

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/aboutgrading.htm

Ah ha, this chart denotes working load limits and has a note about correllating breaking strength:

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/WLLchart.htm

Now to just find boxes and links and hooks which warrant the same ratings!?!?!?

dznf0g 03-21-2017 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony (Post 1925435)
Is "Grade 8" a term used to describe the strength/weight capacity of chains and hooks?
I really believe the weak link will be where the chains are attached to the trailer tongue/a-frame.

I'm not sure the tongue loop is a puny as we might think. I'd bet it is a "hard" material and meets the GVWR test, or they couldn't meet DOT and state retention requirements. But, I do wonder about the welding?????

PKI 03-21-2017 02:13 PM

Grade 8 is a bolt strength specification. The link above gives information on chain specifications. Quite interesting. Thanks for posting. Pat

Edit - chain attachment loop strength - a weld to a chassis is only as strong as the chassis material. Also, a high strength material which is heated must be annealed to eliminate stress from the welding process. Doubt very much that the loop is anything other than mild steel. From a positive perspective, the weld is long so it does cover a lot of surface area. Also, the chain does not have to lift the coach. It just needs to keep the coach following the TV if the coupler falls off the ball. There is the potential of shock loading, but less if the tongue is cradled by the chains. There are two chains and that helps with the safety factor up until and if one of the chains fails.

Bill M. 03-21-2017 03:37 PM

In TN if there are 2 chains each one must be rated heavy enough for the trailer. Since chains do not stretch it is assumed that only one will actually be carrying the load. The only reason for having 2 chains seems to be to cross them to hold up the tongue.

dznf0g 03-21-2017 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M. (Post 1925500)
In TN if there are 2 chains each one must be rated heavy enough for the trailer. Since chains do not stretch it is assumed that only one will actually be carrying the load. The only reason for having 2 chains seems to be to cross them to hold up the tongue.

And if they are crossed, and if there is some separation on chain mounts, two will help the disconnected trailer from wagging as much as a single or un- crossed setup.

dznf0g 03-21-2017 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKI (Post 1925454)
Grade 8 is a bolt strength specification. The link above gives information on chain specifications. Quite interesting. Thanks for posting. Pat

Edit - chain attachment loop strength - a weld to a chassis is only as strong as the chassis material. Also, a high strength material which is heated must be annealed to eliminate stress from the welding process. Doubt very much that the loop is anything other than mild steel. From a positive perspective, the weld is long so it does cover a lot of surface area. Also, the chain does not have to lift the coach. It just needs to keep the coach following the TV if the coupler falls off the ball. There is the potential of shock loading, but less if the tongue is cradled by the chains. There are two chains and that helps with the safety factor up until and if one of the chains fails.

True, but I guess we can take comfort with all the YouTube videos showing a lot of still connected (both coupled and uncoupled, but chained) accidents....some with TVs actually suspended in the air.

Llando88 03-21-2017 03:53 PM

I feel like this is a good thread to ask this question.

Last year, we upgraded from a 27' FB FC to a 30' Rear Queen FC. Colonial moved my Propride hitch over in Lakewood from my 27 to the 30. Both were 2016 models.

Now, here is the question.

My chains were not adjusted going to the larger unit. Should they?

My crossed chains hang abou 1" below the main coupler. The ProPride manual says "this is as long as they ever need to be."

I am slow on the logic here: what does that mean? That the chains will drop down when the rig is turned?

Last question: since we got rolling here in 2017, occasionally I will hear a 'thump' from the location of the hitch when making a gradual turn. I am wondering if it is possible for my chains to be binding at the location where I route them (between the bars on the ProPride) and maybe I ought to lengthen them a bit?

Thanks for any guidance.

Rich

dznf0g 03-21-2017 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llando88 (Post 1925506)
I feel like this is a good thread to ask this question.

Last year, we upgraded from a 27' FB FC to a 30' Rear Queen FC. Colonial moved my Propride hitch over in Lakewood from my 27 to the 30. Both were 2016 models.

Now, here is the question.

My chains were not adjusted going to the larger unit. Should they?

My crossed chains hang abou 1" below the main coupler. The ProPride manual says "this is as long as they ever need to be."

I am slow on the logic here: what does that mean? That the chains will drop down when the rig is turned?

Last question: since we got rolling here in 2017, occasionally I will hear a 'thump' from the location of the hitch when making a gradual turn. I am wondering if it is possible for my chains to be binding at the location where I route them (between the bars on the ProPride) and maybe I ought to lengthen them a bit?

Thanks for any guidance.

Rich

A picture would help us answer, but on the PPP setup, as you turn the distance from the coupler to the receiver actually DECREASES, so you have a bit MORE slack than when going straight ahead. As long as there is enough chain length so that they do not interfere with the bottom of the stinger while turning, you're good. Oh, and be sure that the chains are routed BETWEEN the spring bars.

wildhorses 03-21-2017 04:27 PM

Another tidbit someone told me many moons ago about trailers:

"Chains First - Chains Last"

When connecting your TV to the trailer, hook up the chains first. When disconnecting, unhook the chains last. I can vouch that a couple of times the "Chains Last" has saved my butt because the trailer wasn't chocked or the chocks didn't hold.

m.hony 03-21-2017 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1925453)
I'm not sure the tongue loop is a puny as we might think. I'd bet it is a "hard" material and meets the GVWR test, or they couldn't meet DOT and state retention requirements. But, I do wonder about the welding?????



I'm sure the loop itself is as strong as the chain links, but what about the weld?

Llando88 03-21-2017 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1925514)
A picture would help us answer, but on the PPP setup, as you turn the distance from the coupler to the receiver actually DECREASES, so you have a bit MORE slack than when going straight ahead. As long as there is enough chain length so that they do not interfere with the bottom of the stinger while turning, you're good. Oh, and be sure that the chains are routed BETWEEN the spring bars.


Thanks, I'll post a picture of mine connected up 'normally' tomorrow.

jimrosemergy 03-22-2017 11:57 AM

Thanks everyone for your advice. Crossed chains it is. As we enter the Airstream life we realize this is a deep well with much to learn, but we are eager. Thanks again, Jim and Nancy

zapper 03-22-2017 08:05 PM

If you still have low hanging crossed chains subject to grabbing onto anything beneath them try using bungee cords to bring them up a bit just in front of the hitch ball. Does away with possible binding from having them too tight.

Llando88 03-23-2017 09:17 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Llando88 (Post 1925564)
Thanks, I'll post a picture of mine connected up 'normally' tomorrow.


Attachment 281929

Thoughts?


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