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-   -   Scam? (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f348/scam-152799.html)

sarasafari 06-25-2016 03:52 PM

Scam?
 
I just listed my Airstream on the classifieds here. I got a very quick offer by text. He said he wanted to buy it and said he would pay by pay pal. Asked for my email and pay pal name. Said he would send a truck/freighter to pick it up.
Sounds way weird. How can I be scammed if I get the $$ in my pay pal account before releasing the trailer?

AWCHIEF 06-25-2016 03:58 PM

Run, run away. Anyone that claims they will buy sight unseen is a crook, stupid or crazy.

CRH 06-25-2016 03:59 PM

They can make a claim that they didn't get the item and PayPal will reimburse them and debit your bank account.

NWGetaways 06-25-2016 04:01 PM

So many ways.
https://craigslistpostingsecrets.wor.../pay-pal-scam/

rmkrum 06-25-2016 04:02 PM

He simply files a paypal protest, doesn't pay you, and you are out a trailer....


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums

OTRA15 06-25-2016 04:33 PM

Is it possible that the offer is from a legitimate buyer? Sara has a rare trailer for sale:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f534...ml#post1810908

https://www.airstreamclassifieds.com/...ri-23-georgia/

Sara, have you replied to the offer within the classifieds system and asked for similar background info. on the buyer? Like PayPal ID, email address, phone numbers, eBay ID if any, and so forth? If you keep it confidential within the Air classified's system, you might find out whether the buyer is legit IMO.

If they did not reply in the Air class. system, text them back and ask them to do so. They already have your cell number I guess. They will have to create a user ID etc. to do so. If they refuse, probably best to let this fish go IMO.

It would be a shame to lose a fish on the line, but without further assurances, the risks might be excessive.

Will research more later when I am back home.

Good,luck!

Peter

HowieE 06-25-2016 04:34 PM

E Bay and now it looks like Craigslist only protect the BUYER even when he is a crook.

When E Bay went to a Pay Pay requirement and some of my buyers did not have an account I would note in my discretion "If I can spend it you can send it". Never had any problem with the Green stuff.

SteveSueMac 06-25-2016 04:35 PM

Rate or not, no reasonable person drops $30k sight unseen!

Run!

OTRA15 06-25-2016 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac (Post 1811391)
Rate or not, no reasonable person drops $30k sight unseen!

Run!

"no" as in 100%?

Have you seen the ad and photos? What's the harm in Sara checking up on the buyer per my recent post? If it is a scam, she will have the reassurance that she gave a possible good deal a chance, before running away at the first inkling of trouble.

If the buyer jumps through the hoops Sara sets up, why not find out if the offer could pan out?

We're talking about taking control of this negotiation, and being in charge, instead of slamming on the brakes at the first sign of "trailer sway" !

:bb:

:angel:

rmkrum 06-25-2016 05:10 PM

It's hard to be sure. All I know is that the hair on the back of my neck rose up. It's too easy.

Sight unseen offer is what triggered my paranoia. Add sending someone else to pick it up is another.

I made a very good living being s paid paranoid for many years. I trust my instincts, double check everything, and still worry. Nature of the business of a computer security guy, unfortunately.

Just be double darn careful. PayPal is not, and never will be as good as a real bank, or real cash.

Just saying...


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Bob662 06-25-2016 05:14 PM

...and Sara should not forget the Paypal fee she'll have to disburse. Is it 5%? That's a pretty big discount.

OTRA15 06-25-2016 05:15 PM

rmkrum, if the buyer jumps through the suggested hoops, including registering on Air Classifieds etc., why not proceed within the communication framework provided?

If they balk, they're out!

OTRA15 06-25-2016 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmkrum (Post 1811411)
. . .
I made a very good living being s paid paranoid for many years.
. . .

Where does one apply for such a position?

:angel:

Isuzusweet 06-25-2016 05:28 PM

Be careful if they send you a link to Paypal to which they ask you to log on for account info. The link will be generated by them leading to a false Paypal login page. If you login using their link, they will have your account number, password and access to any and all accounts you have linked to Paypal. They will drain your accounts in short order.

Cheers
Tony

Lily&Me 06-25-2016 05:37 PM

I got an email the other day, purportedly from PayPal, something about bypassing login information or something of that sort. It had a link.

I thought it was spam and just deleted it.


Maggie

SteveSueMac 06-25-2016 05:52 PM

Scam?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 1811409)
"no" as in 100%?

Have you seen the ad and photos? What's the harm in Sara checking up on the buyer per my recent post? If it is a scam, she will have the reassurance that she gave a possible good deal a chance, before running away at the first inkling of trouble.

If the buyer jumps through the hoops Sara sets up, why not find out if the offer could pan out?

We're talking about taking control of this negotiation, and being in charge, instead of slamming on the brakes at the first sign of "trailer sway" !

:bb:

:angel:


First - I meant "rare" not "rate" and you *may* be right but I can't imagine someone buying any $30K purchase sight unseen unless they're in the 1% Bernie has made famous. So think about that...maybe 1% of the population can afford to drop $30K without knowing what they're getting. So what are the odds you're dealing with that person? Just 1%!

If it's too good to be true, run. But do whatever you want - we're all adults 😀

nrgtrakr 06-25-2016 06:20 PM

I got a similar offer for mine. I told them cash or cashier check in person only. Never heard from again. Google the email address. My "buyer" had multiple complaints.

rmkrum 06-25-2016 06:21 PM

Scam?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 1811422)
Where does one apply for such a position?

:angel:


Spend about 40 years in the computer business, be a very fast learner, understand multiple computer operating systems intimately, have a supportive boss, and be in the right place at the right time. Then spend ten years herding cats (programmers) into doing it within the rules.

Having a CISSP certification is also helpful.

And add in a degree in electronics, computer science, and management of information systems.

Modesty, charm, and good writing skills help, plus the ability to tell management "not only no, but hell no!" and make it stick when it came to enforcing security.

No, it wasn't ever easy. But it was a hell of a fun ride, and even in retirement I've still got my fingers in it.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums

NWGetaways 06-25-2016 06:21 PM

Tell them you will do it through an online escrow service, like escrow.com.

OTRA15 06-25-2016 06:25 PM

SSM, I was factoring in the rareness of the 1969 trailer, and Sara's apparent honesty and dedication in renovating the beauty.

Priceless!

And yes, if the chance of this buyer being legitimate is only 1%, isn't this better than -- ZERO -- percent chance if she dumps him (or her) now?

Again, why not take charge of the negotiation and put the buyer through the hoops suggested?

It's part of the FUN -- to turn the tables, like when you get a cold caller on the phone line and you immediately raise your voice, interrupt them, and ask for their home phone number and residential street address.

Fun while minimizing risk using the Air Classifieds communication system as the safety net.

Of course some people don't have the time or patience . . . No prob . . .

:wally:

PS recent suggestions of cash or certified check in person, or an escrow service, make sense also.

ahoyhere 06-25-2016 07:27 PM

DON'T TAKE MONEY VIA PAYPAL.

As previously mentioned, it is fairly trivial for a buyer to claim the item was not as described, or never delivered, etc., and get the money back and you're left with no trailer and no money.

PayPal also sometimes will freeze an account for months when you receive an unusual amount of money.

It's entirely possible that somebody is ready to buy sight unseen. But PayPal is too risky a medium to take that money.

If it were me, I'd push back on the PayPal but not otherwise assume it's scammy. If they'll use escrow.com (like somebody else mentioned!) then they could be totally legit.

goobscoob 06-25-2016 08:58 PM

Agree
 
Too many red flags here. Run.

sarasafari 06-26-2016 08:15 AM

Thanks
 
Thanks for all the responses. I figured out the scam, and told him to scram!
He billed me $1900 for freight, lol! Said the purchase price would go into my paypal account once he received the shipping money:lol:
I knew it was fishy, just couldn't figure out how. Didn't know it was going to be so transparent. Thanks AS community! Trailer still for sale!

LEWBAY500 06-26-2016 08:46 AM

It's JUNE 2016 & "THEY'RE BACK".

I have had my 1978 Ambassador International on AirClassifieds 6 weeks.

I have been "hit" by the Paypal scammers 2 TIMES THUS FAR.

They depend on the desperate,greedy, or naive ----- WATCH OUT! BE SMART

_Eugene Dubay, Beautiful Pigeon Forge, TN

Northerngirl 06-26-2016 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac (Post 1811437)
First -I can't imagine someone buying any $30K purchase sight unseen unless they're in the 1% Bernie has made famous. So think about that...maybe 1% of the population can afford to drop $30K without knowing what they're getting. So what are the odds you're dealing with that person? Just 1%!

Actually I have purchased two trailers sight unseen and I am not in the 1% you refer to. :)

I simple live in an area where few of the trailer make/type I wished to purchase come up for sale that are within a 2-3 day drive. I know plenty of other folks who have done the same. Its usually a higher risk to such a buyer than it is to the seller. I know more than one buyer that has been burned badly in such a deal - usually in regards to the condition of the trailer. In one case the seller got the deposit but then sold the trailer to someone else.

Legitimate out of town &/or country buyers should and do tend to ask lots of questions and ask for lots of additional photos prior to making making an offer. Funny enough I have found some sellers will not send additional info or answer the questions via email first. Legitimate purchasers will also want to speak directly to the seller over the phone before making an offer in an attempt to get a feel for whether or not the seller is trust worthy :D But I have had sellers refuse to even provide their phone info when they hear I do not live in the USA. Will only talk to you if you come to see the trailer in person. Sorry but I am not going to spend 4-5 days driving time to look at a trailer if I am not convinced its the right trailer. :roll eyes:

The concerns over scammers by some sellers can be just a bit over the top. For example there was a trailer for sale that I was VERY interested in - right model, year etc. been waiting for several months for one to come on the market. Seller had posted very few photos and what they wad posted where poor. I asked via email (after failing to be able to get through to them on phone number provided) if they could provide a clearer photo of the outside of the trailer showing the transportation compliance sticker (needed to export the trailer to Canada). Response was No. I had to come see the trailer and talk directly to them before they would send it and it was irrelevant if it had the sticker or not. It was a harmless question to ask & questionable as to why they would not give an answer if their concern was in fact scammers. The tone of their response left me feeling that they did not sound like someone I would want to deal with & wonder what other info they may be reluctant to be forthcoming on, so I did not bother to try calling them again. Funny enough I noticed that trailer sat on the market for a few weeks longer. There is a very good chance the seller could have sold that trailer a lot faster had they been a bit less paranoid and more open in answering the original simple question asked.

The odds are also high that a legitimate sight unseen purchaser will also want to talk with the shop that has been servicing the trailer &/or send a third party ahead to take a look at the trailer for them. Again I have had sellers refuse to provide such info or allow a 3rd party to look at the trailer unless I was present at the same time.

For the most part I have found that most sellers will be pretty open with their communications & willing to work with you, once you explain to them you are outside the US, a legitimate buyer & not out to scam anyone and are asking the questions to protect yourself as well.

Yes its high risk to be a sight unseen purchaser. But there are a number of other steps a legitiamate purchaser can and will mostly likely take to make sure the seller is legitimate. Such as having your bank contact their bank to confirm that they are indeed a customer with the same address etc that they have given you the purchaser & they did not just open the account yesterday. Online directories are also a good way to confirm the party lives where they say they do. Using Google Earth you can also take a look at where they live and if the trailer is kept outside at their home the odds are high the trailer will be visible.

If I do make an offer on a sight unseen trailer I do offer to send the seller at least 50% of the offer price via a direct bank wire transfer (which is much safer for both the seller and buyer) and will deal with only major international banks & it only takes a day for the sellers bank to confirm its a good clean transfer. At least that is the case when dealing with National banks and transfers between Canada and the USA. Personally would not deal with a seller using a one off local bank. Using a national bank for a direct wire transfer provides the purchaser with legitimate documentation as to the payment giving to the seller that in least in part gives them with some documentation of the transaction & some legal recourse should the seller not in fact have the trailer when you get there.

I do pick the trailer up personally & as fastest I can drive to the location of the trailer before handing over the balance owing to make sure it is as the seller described.

I do know a party who did purchase their A/S off of EBay (best offer posting) without any kind of communications prior with the seller and they did use the EBay payment system - in that case though the trailer was being sold by a well known seller of used A/S who know enough about legitimate out of the country buyers to include LOTS of info & photos of the trailer including the various stickers on the trailer that are needed to export/import it. Lots of trailers change hands through EBay.

I do agree a seller should run fast from anyone who asks few questions about the trailer prior to making an offer &/or only offers to pay via Paypal or Ebay &/or is having someone other than themselves pick up the trailer without the purchaser having seen it themselves &/or does not make direct voice contact with the seller.

BUT I would not assume that all who make an offer on a trailer sight unseen are scammers &/or in the 1% group you refer to - anymore than I assume that all sellers are scammers in regards to the condition of their trailers! ;)

SteveSueMac 06-26-2016 02:21 PM

Helpful to have your view, Northerngirl. While the OP has identified this was a scam offer, you raise good points. Thanks.

OTRA15 06-26-2016 02:43 PM

Glad you avoided the scammer Sara, and thanks for your comments Northerngirl, and for taking the time to detail some of the nuances . . .

:innocent:


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