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2012FB 01-25-2014 07:54 PM

2014 Grand Cherokee Eco Diesel
 
Just test towed my 25' with a Grand Cherokee Eco Diesel and was greatly disappointed with potential over heating. Starting in Denver, with very little wind at 55 degrees, and driving west on I70 to Silverthorne and back each grade would send the temp to near limit. From Silverthorne east bound to the Eisenhower tunnel I started with the cruise at 60 and engine normal temp, as it had cooled on the way down, then the temp quickly started rising till just a half tick into the red half way to the top while my speed dropped to 45. The outside temp during the pull was only 36.

I found that I could not down shift into a higher rpm when I felt it should have allowed it. It will also not hold a gear going down hill. It would up shift around 3200 rpm. Hit the brakes really hard drop the speed to 45 and then it would go back to 4th but would pop out shortly after that.

Returned to the dealer with sales manager ready to close the deal until I went over the pictures taken of the temp gage and we discussed the lack of power pulling less than 6,000 pounds.

On the bright side I got 15mpg with the 155 mile round trip.

It is a very nice vehicle but disappointed with the heat issues.

Wait and see what the dealer/regional rep has to say on Monday.

kscherzi 01-25-2014 08:06 PM

Odd that such a basic thing is cropping up. Modern vehicles are assumed to have this stuff down.

hazelgreen 01-25-2014 08:47 PM

I've been waiting for someone to actually post a review of the new Eco diesel grand cherokee as we were set on purchasing one for towing. I'm disappointed in its performance and hopefully it is some kind of computer glitch, etc. Were you using tow/haul mode? Not being able to downshift would not be good and getting it to hold especially on the passes. Thanks for giving this review. I hope that this can be corrected as we really wanted to buy one of these. Although we have a 1991 25' AS we had not really planned to use it to pull this but getting a smaller one with less weight as our classic is heavier than we
would want to use the GC to pull with. I look forward to hearing what you find out.

2012FB 01-25-2014 10:54 PM

Unfortunately there is no tow mode. I tried normal, manual and sport modes thinking maybe sport would allow higher rpm shift points but they seemed to be the same. One of the sales guys was telling me that the new diesel and 8 speed trans are very conservatively programmed. I think I read where they were sitting in limbo at the factory production lots while they were trying to finalize the software prior to hitting the dealer lots. They still have a ways to go. The indicated red line is somewhere close to 5k but I donít think it ever got much over 4. Low end slow rolling torque is just incredible but it is horse power that gets you up the hill and there it is lacking.

If the dealer comes back with a fix for the overheating I may try it again, but I really hate to have no power reserve at all going up the grades. Would just need to get behind the big rigs and settle in at 40. If we lived in CA or FL it might be much more tolerable.

JFScheck 01-25-2014 11:42 PM

Very odd, I towed a heavier 2009 Classic 25FB coast to coast with multiple stops at SteamBoat Springs - my TDI Touareg had zero issues, plenty of power with no heat issues, once was in late spring while other was in late summer x2....

Denver up 70 right through Silverthorne 3 times....

Few pounds less torque than the Grand Cherokee too, btw, curious how my 2014 SRT Grand Cherokee would do with 470lbs torque and 470 horses... ;)

Any Hoots, Odd on the GC oil burner, something has got to be off..... :(

hazelgreen 01-25-2014 11:57 PM

With the price of the GC and it's supposed towing capacity, something isn't right. It's hard to believe that it is running so hot. That's scary in itself. Unfortunately we may have to rethink our purchase unless I start reading positive results. We go camping in Colorado almost every summer and pull a lot of passes and surely don't want to spend that kind of money on something that overheats and doesn't have enough power. It will be interesting to see what the dealer comes back and says on Monday.

2012FB 01-26-2014 12:14 AM

John, What speed were you able to maintain pulling east to the Eisenhower Tunnel! What about coming out of SteamBoat Springs back toward Silverthorne?


Quote:

Originally Posted by JFScheck (Post 1408160)
Very odd, I towed a heavier 2009 Classic 25FB coast to coast with multiple stops at SteamBoat Springs - my TDI Touareg had zero issues, plenty of power with no heat issues, once was in late spring while other was in late summer x2....

Denver up 70 right through Silverthorne 3 times....

Few pounds less torque than the Grand Cherokee too, btw, curious how my 2014 SRT Grand Cherokee would do with 470lbs torque and 470 horses... ;)

Any Hoots, Odd on the GC oil burner, something has got to be off..... :(


jmcarter 01-26-2014 05:19 AM

Seems there was another thread along these lines, there are some grades (and certainly ambient temps) that will test it more than I-70. Since the Fiat diesel is a $4500 option in the Jeep I'd be darn sure of its capability before pulling the trigger. Was really hoping the Jeep would succeed as a TV but if you need a good diesel SUV then Mercedes ML or GL might be options for you. The ML is not much more than a loaded jeep (diesels are a no-cost option with M-B).

Not Jeep bashing though, seems like a software change should address how the 8 speed trans handles grades. The RAM 1500 is the same power train and they have to get it right for that segment, else Ford EcoBoost 150 will steal all their thunder.

2012FB 01-26-2014 10:36 AM

The Ram 1500 Eco Diesel does have a tow mode, integrated brake controller and will obviously have better cooling systems but it will also be 1,000 - 1,500 pounds heavier.

Starting to research the German models but really did not want to go that way again. Last MB wagon we had cost us a small fortune in service and maintenance. Finally through the towel in around 100k miles (traded in for a Toyota) and said we would never buy another MB. My daughter still drives the Toyota with over 150k miles and we have spent a 1/10 on it as compared to the MB.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 1408175)
Seems there was another thread along these lines, there are some grades (and certainly ambient temps) that will test it more than I-70. Since the Fiat diesel is a $4500 option in the Jeep I'd be darn sure of its capability before pulling the trigger. Was really hoping the Jeep would succeed as a TV but if you need a good diesel SUV then Mercedes ML or GL might be options for you. The ML is not much more than a loaded jeep (diesels are a no-cost option with M-B).

Not Jeep bashing though, seems like a software change should address how the 8 speed trans handles grades. The RAM 1500 is the same power train and they have to get it right for that segment, else Ford EcoBoost 150 will steal all their thunder.


handn 01-26-2014 11:07 AM

I am considering a Grand Cherokee with a 5.7 Hemi. I hunt and need the 4 wheel drive capability. Now we tow with an old Powerstroke and hunt with a smaller size 4x4. I would like to go with one vehicle. I like the idea of a moderate sized vehicle for city driving and the reviews for driving and handling are good, better than some of the bigger 4x4's with a frame on body such as a Nissan Armada or Toyota Sequoia. The Hemi might get 15-17 solo, but nothing like that towing.
On the downside, frequency of repair according to consumer reports is well above average for the V8. A new diesel made by Fiat does not inspire confidence.
Chrysler has a history of introducing diesel vehicles and then orphaning them. If I buy a Grand Cherokee, it will be with the old iron.

Lance M 01-26-2014 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handn (Post 1408258)
A new diesel made by Fiat does not inspire confidence.

VM Motori makes the 3.0 Eco Diesel. VM has been around a very long time. It was once owned by Detroit Diesel, Penske, GM and now Fiat Powertrain. It is not a Fiat engine, as a RAM is not a Fiat truck and Jeep is not a Fiat SUV. They just share the same Corporate owners.

Hopefully Jeep and RAM will get their issues sorted out.
I sure would like a nice 1/2T pickup that can tow #9,000 and get over 20 MPG solo.

Denis4x4 01-26-2014 01:10 PM

My '13 Grand Cherokee with the hemi, 6 speed and tow/haul mode has proven to be an excellent tow vehicle for my car trailer as well as my 25 FB. Went from Durango to Georgetown pulling my car trailer over much the same route with no issues at all. No knock on the diesel, but I can buy quite a few gallons of gas that's cheaper than diesel for a $4500 difference. For the record, I also own a diesel Sprinter motorhome.

JFScheck 01-26-2014 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1408164)
John, What speed were you able to maintain pulling east to the Eisenhower Tunnel! What about coming out of SteamBoat Springs back toward Silverthorne?

Volkswagen 2010 Touareg TDI with V-6 towing a 2009 25FB Classic with Pro Pride Hitch - heading from Denver up to the Tunnel, steady 60-65 (70 was average) with no problems, from Silverthrone to SteamBoat Springs it's pretty flat until the very end, but I was nervous as this was 2010 and Ultra Low Diesel as not quite everywhere at that point, the power was never an issue....

Rabbit Ears pass too (Tunnel was all backed up) and because of the roads max average was 60.

The final pull up into and past Catamount Lake (or pulling out of Steamboat and over Rabbit Ears pass) was 60-65. That was a pull!

2012FB 01-27-2014 08:50 AM

John, Thank you for the feedback. On paper the Jeep should do every bit as good, but I am not going to risk it at this point. I am leaning toward the Touareg TDI and need to now find a used 2013 or hopefully 2014 that I can do the same test with. Warm regards, Howard



Quote:

Originally Posted by JFScheck (Post 1408363)
Volkswagen 2010 Touareg TDI with V-6 towing a 2009 25FB Classic with Pro Pride Hitch - heading from Denver up to the Tunnel, steady 60-65 (70 was average) with no problems, from Silverthrone to SteamBoat Springs it's pretty flat until the very end, but I was nervous as this was 2010 and Ultra Low Diesel as not quite everywhere at that point, the power was never an issue....

Rabbit Ears pass too (Tunnel was all backed up) and because of the roads max average was 60.

The final pull up into and past Catamount Lake (or pulling out of Steamboat and over Rabbit Ears pass) was 60-65. That was a pull!


Mcdenny 01-27-2014 09:19 AM

Did dealer ever get back to you about poor performance?

I have a 2014 gas V6 - love it! Very luxurious and better mpg both towing and not than I expected.

jeep garage forum is a great resource for info, you might post your experience and see what you get back. There are many happy diesel owners towing big trailers there.

I think there was definitely something abnormal about the jeep you tested. With manual shifting my 8 spd trans will hold the gear almost as if it were a stick shift. It will only shift if you go so slow as to cause the engine to really bog down, like 8th gear at 25 mph. I tow a smaller trailer but driving down i75 in Kentucky the temp gage never moved. The trans temp stayed the same too.

I looked at Touareg diesels too - while less than a Benz or BMW, feature for feature they are still a good bit more than the Jeep and there are many more jeep dealers around if you need service.

2012FB 01-27-2014 10:09 AM

It is early and I have not heard anything back from the dealer yet.

The trans issue was very frustrating and my guess why I could not hold a better speed. It would simply lug down and I could not get it to down shift. The ratios on the 8 are fairly narrow and I should have been able to down shift to a higher RPM. I do not see how that could be anything other than programming.

The overheating was the biggest concern and will wait to hear from the dealer, but I would need to be convinced that both issues are resolved with documented explanations and actual test drive before re-considering it.

It was a 2014 trade in with only 600 miles on it. It was flawless as a daily driver, with maybe the exception of the turbo kick in, which reminded me of my wife's last A3, but a different beast altogether when pulling heavy.

Why would you buy the diesel other than to tow? It really makes no sense to me. Maybe it was stuck in regen, the fans were not coming on or Jeep still has teething issues with the software? With no tow mode I think it is setup to maximize fuel mileage causing it just to lug way too much! The software should be able to detect the increased load and adjust from there.

Just disappointed!



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcdenny (Post 1408535)
Did dealer ever get back to you about poor performance?

I have a 2014 gas V6 - love it! Very luxurious and better mpg both towing and not than I expected.

jeep garage forum is a great resource for info, you might post your experience and see what you get back. There are many happy diesel owners towing big trailers there.

I think there was definitely something abnormal about the jeep you tested. With manual shifting my 8 spd trans will hold the gear almost as if it were a stick shift. It will only shift if you go so slow as to cause the engine to really bog down, like 8th gear at 25 mph. I tow a smaller trailer but driving down i75 in Kentucky the temp gage never moved. The trans temp stayed the same too.

I looked at Touareg diesels too - while less than a Benz or BMW, feature for feature they are still a good bit more than the Jeep and there are many more jeep dealers around if you need service.


JFScheck 01-27-2014 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1408522)
John, Thank you for the feedback. On paper the Jeep should do every bit as good.

Or it should do a bit better - I really wonder if you didn't have an oddball Jeep oil burner because things just don't add up. :(

Now remember, if you read all my posts, I was always a bit nervous about my payload and the reason why I eventually went with a 3/4 ton truck with cap vice SUV. :brows:

hazelgreen 01-30-2014 02:05 PM

Did you ever get any answers from the dealership regarding the problems you encountered with the Eco diesel GC?

JamuJoe 01-31-2014 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1408548)
It is early and I have not heard anything back from the dealer yet.

The trans issue was very frustrating and my guess why I could not hold a better speed. It would simply lug down and I could not get it to down shift. The ratios on the 8 are fairly narrow and I should have been able to down shift to a higher RPM. I do not see how that could be anything other than programming.

The overheating was the biggest concern and will wait to hear from the dealer, but I would need to be convinced that both issues are resolved with documented explanations and actual test drive before re-considering it.

It was a 2014 trade in with only 600 miles on it. It was flawless as a daily driver, with maybe the exception of the turbo kick in, which reminded me of my wife's last A3, but a different beast altogether when pulling heavy.

Why would you buy the diesel other than to tow? It really makes no sense to me. Maybe it was stuck in regen, the fans were not coming on or Jeep still has teething issues with the software? With no tow mode I think it is setup to maximize fuel mileage causing it just to lug way too much! The software should be able to detect the increased load and adjust from there.

Just disappointed!


I hope that you get resolution on the overheating issue. I haven't towed with my GC Overland EcoDiesel yet, but have been delighted with performance thus far. No shifting or other issues, and I use the paddles extensively on the mountain grades here around Durango. Mine was delivered in November, and did have a software update before delivery.

Safe Travels,
JamuJoe

2012FB 01-31-2014 03:26 PM

This is direct from the sales manager:

"I just got word. They checked everything out and there is nothing wrong with the car. They determined that the fuel that was put in there was not good. Talking with my Chrysler rep I found out there are 2 kinds of diesel fuel 1&2. The standard diesel you get at King Soopers or Velaro etc has many additives. Which cut down the performance and increase temp. The diesel #2 is recommended for the vehicle from Chrysler and you can get it at any truck stop. He said the diesel #1 is almost half as efficient. This was a learning experience for me. I have been getting 25mpg in my diesel and the Chrysler rep said that I would get 4-5 mpg better by using that fuel. I am in process of getting the car down to the truck stop to put the #2 diesel fuel in it and see the difference. Maybe we could try it again next week when the weather gets better to see the difference."

I am 20 plus years with diesel tow vehicles and fuel was not the problem. I don't even know of a station in the Denver metro area that sells #1. I filled it up with Shell #2 which is what I always try to buy. I tend to stay away from truck stop fuel. At this point I would not purchase the Jeep based on my experience, their response and am not interested in trying it again.

I would recommend that anyone interested in the GC tow your trailer under max conditions before committing. Perhaps they did find something wrong and simply want to blame the fuel, but I am not going to risk it even though I liked it and the advanced features (air suspension, adaptive cruise etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelgreen (Post 1409880)
Did you ever get any answers from the dealership regarding the problems you encountered with the Eco diesel GC?


dznf0g 01-31-2014 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1410199)
This is direct from the sales manager:

"I just got word. They checked everything out and there is nothing wrong with the car. They determined that the fuel that was put in there was not good. Talking with my Chrysler rep I found out there are 2 kinds of diesel fuel 1&2. The standard diesel you get at King Soopers or Velaro etc has many additives. Which cut down the performance and increase temp. The diesel #2 is recommended for the vehicle from Chrysler and you can get it at any truck stop. He said the diesel #1 is almost half as efficient. This was a learning experience for me. I have been getting 25mpg in my diesel and the Chrysler rep said that I would get 4-5 mpg better by using that fuel. I am in process of getting the car down to the truck stop to put the #2 diesel fuel in it and see the difference. Maybe we could try it again next week when the weather gets better to see the difference."

I am 20 plus years with diesel tow vehicles and fuel was not the problem. I don't even know of a station in the Denver metro area that sells #1. I filled it up with Shell #2 which is what I always try to buy. I tend to stay away from truck stop fuel. At this point I would not purchase the Jeep based on my experience, their response and am not interested in trying it again.

I would recommend that anyone interested in the GC tow your trailer under max conditions before committing. Perhaps they did find something wrong and simply want to blame the fuel, but I am not going to risk it even though I liked it and the advanced features (air suspension, adaptive cruise etc.).

Yeah, I don't think so either! #1 vs #2 would have no affect on coolant temp. It might have some affect on longevity of the high pressure pump and maybe injectors ans SOME affect on mileage, but not as much as they say above.
I can't see it affecting the shift pattern either.

subfan1 01-31-2014 03:37 PM

I'm confused, is your Jeep a rental? To see if you liked it? Can you just give it back and say it didn't work for you? Or are you stuck with it?

2012FB 01-31-2014 03:49 PM

I was very interested in purchasing the unit and told the dealer I would not without first towing my trailer from Denver to Silverthorne. The dealer balked and told me I could not tow with a new unit and then called back to say they had a 2014 trade in with 600 miles and I could take that for the test whichI did. I am also waiting for better weather to do the same with the Touareg TDI and ML350 BlueTec before deciding between the two.


Quote:

Originally Posted by subfan1 (Post 1410202)
I'm confused, is your Jeep a rental? To see if you liked it? Can you just give it back and say it didn't work for you? Or are you stuck with it?


subfan1 01-31-2014 03:51 PM

Oh... Very generous dealer. Sounds like you lucked out, good for you. Good luck with your other choices.

DKB_SATX 01-31-2014 04:39 PM

I wonder why someone traded in a vehicle with 600 miles. Hopefully the particular unit has problems and it's not a general capability problem with the platform.

subfan1 01-31-2014 04:42 PM

I was wondering the same thing... Perhaps it was a demo?

dznf0g 01-31-2014 04:48 PM

Or a buyback....but that should come with a disclosure. Wonder what the warranty history shows in the system?????

dkottum 01-31-2014 06:18 PM

Kinda like a mystery show here, each post reveals a few more clues but the truth is yet to be known.

rostam 01-31-2014 06:24 PM

I thought you were supposed to let the
Engine break in before the first tow? May be have 1000 miles on it?

JFScheck 01-31-2014 07:26 PM

Yes, 1000 miles before first tow, still - why is this Jeep GC Oil Burner available for sale after only 600 miles on the clock?

I have talked with two folks who both have the Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel, one tows a 23FB Airstream (2012 model) while the other tows his Viper in a car hauler.

Both have been in my Touareg TDI diesel back when I owned it (and have driven it when towing a motorcycle trailer on trips), one owned a Touareg diesel herself and they both say they LOVE the Grand Cherokee diesels and have towed through mountains, etc. with zero issues....

The number 1 diesel over number 2 diesel is boulder dash...

Go try a new one, this one has an issue (like someone ran some odd diesel additive, non ultra low sulfur diesel, perhaps filled tank with some gas, etc.) with damage to injectors or something and with said issue only surfacing when the GC needs to use the torque of the engine....

jmcarter 02-01-2014 05:05 AM

Admit I'm biased but if you try the ML there won't be any need for further comparisons.

rostam 02-01-2014 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 1410382)
Admit I'm biased but if you try the ML there won't be any need for further comparisons.


I second that. It produces 455 ft-lb of torque at 1600 RPM -- more than any other SUV or half ton pickup. I have also never heard of a MB diesel overheating.

dznf0g 02-01-2014 08:37 AM

Um....2014 Silverado gasser 6.2l MaxTow has 460 torque.

mojo 02-01-2014 08:41 AM

Touareg V10 Diesel = 553 lb-ft @2000 rpm

rostam 02-01-2014 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1410420)
Um....2014 Silverado gasser 6.2l MaxTow has 460 torque.


At what rpm? :)

rostam 02-01-2014 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo (Post 1410422)
Touareg V10 Diesel = 553 lb-ft @2000 rpm


That vehicle is not being produced anymore :)

mojo 02-01-2014 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam (Post 1410424)
That vehicle is not being produced anymore :)

Yes but you can still buy them.

dznf0g 02-01-2014 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam (Post 1410423)
At what rpm? :)

4100 rpm. But, I'm just picking on you due to the broad statement. We all know the pros and cons of gas vs. diesel. But Mojo kind of superseded that statement more accurately anyway.

JamuJoe 02-01-2014 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1410199)
This is direct from the sales manager:

"I just got word. They checked everything out and there is nothing wrong with the car. They determined that the fuel that was put in there was not good. Talking with my Chrysler rep I found out there are 2 kinds of diesel fuel 1&2. The standard diesel you get at King Soopers or Velaro etc has many additives. Which cut down the performance and increase temp. The diesel #2 is recommended for the vehicle from Chrysler and you can get it at any truck stop. He said the diesel #1 is almost half as efficient. This was a learning experience for me. I have been getting 25mpg in my diesel and the Chrysler rep said that I would get 4-5 mpg better by using that fuel. I am in process of getting the car down to the truck stop to put the #2 diesel fuel in it and see the difference. Maybe we could try it again next week when the weather gets better to see the difference."

I am 20 plus years with diesel tow vehicles and fuel was not the problem. I don't even know of a station in the Denver metro area that sells #1. I filled it up with Shell #2 which is what I always try to buy. I tend to stay away from truck stop fuel. At this point I would not purchase the Jeep based on my experience, their response and am not interested in trying it again.

I would recommend that anyone interested in the GC tow your trailer under max conditions before committing. Perhaps they did find something wrong and simply want to blame the fuel, but I am not going to risk it even though I liked it and the advanced features (air suspension, adaptive cruise etc.).


What nonsense from the sales manager! I would speak with the service manager or find another dealer. The additives in ultra low sulphur #2 diesel, which is the fuel required for this vehicle, are not the problem. Yes, you might get some bad stale fuel from some low volume outlet. Truck stops are high volume, not a problem. Some outlets in very cold climates do switch to a diesel blend to minimize gelling. I wouldn't use either a blend or biodiesel in my GC. Stick with known brands in stations that pump a lot of fuel.

The dealer should dump the 'bad' fuel, change the fuel filter and then test the vehicle with good fuel. The real cause of your overheating has not been found.

Safe Travels,
JamuJoe

JamuJoe 02-01-2014 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 1410382)
Admit I'm biased but if you try the ML there won't be any need for further comparisons.


Well, that's one opinion. I did test the ML, and then purchased the GC for it's more capable features and equal if not better refinements. Different strokes for different folks.

JamuJoe

rostam 02-01-2014 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1410427)
4100 rpm. But, I'm just picking on you due to the broad statement. We all know the pros and cons of gas vs. diesel. But Mojo kind of superseded that statement more accurately anyway.


I was picking on you and mojo as well. I will not share my opinion on buying a used v10 tdi, as it's super bowel weekend and I don't want to start a war here ;) I do believe that MB makes the best Diesel engines though, they are powerful, efficient, reliable, and very quiet. Only if they offered the v8 diesel they offered in Europe...

drboyd 02-01-2014 03:13 PM

I would buy a Fiat / Jeep diesel with - and only with - a lifetime warranty. I'm thinking it's likely to make the MB diesel maintenance look cheap by comparison.

Just my ever-so-humble opinion.

JamuJoe 02-01-2014 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam (Post 1410497)
I was picking on you and mojo as well. I will not share my opinion on buying a used v10 tdi, as it's super bowel weekend and I don't want to start a war here ;) I do believe that MB makes the best Diesel engines though, they are powerful, efficient, reliable, and very quiet. Only if they offered the v8 diesel they offered in Europe...


Good engines, but not without failures. I drove my MB 3.0L CRD engine for 106,000 mi. and had three failures. First the alternator at 48,000 mi., then the common rail fuel pressure sensor at 84,000 mi., then the glo plug control module at 98,000 mi. None were inexpensive repairs.

Anyway, this WAS a thread about the GC EcoDiesel. I'm glad that others love their vehicles.

Safe Travels,
JamuJoe

2012FB 02-01-2014 04:58 PM

If it was really bad fuel I don't think I would have gotten 15mpg on the round trip. Fuel does not fix the issues with shift points or holding gear down hill when towing. Nor the overheating. Why not just tell the truth. Never ceases to amaze me how stupid they think you are.

handn 02-01-2014 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX (Post 1410223)
I wonder why someone traded in a vehicle with 600 miles. Hopefully the particular unit has problems and it's not a general capability problem with the platform.

X2, I am also suspicious of the dealer's explanation for the malfunction being #1 diesel. I have owned a diesel vehicle for 14 years and 225 k miles. #1 diesel is rarely available and always labeled as such. The diesel you buy at King Soopers is almost certainly the same diesel as at a truck stop. #1 diesel would not stop a properly functioning transmission from down shifting or cause overheating problems.
Let Chrysler get the bugs out of the engine and transmission combo before purchase.

rostam 02-01-2014 06:55 PM

May be its worth to wait a year or two till all the glitches are fixed. I personally never buy a first model year car; I prefer last model years as they are the most reliable.

Bigventure 02-01-2014 08:23 PM

I own a 2014 Jeep GC diesel. These units are basically all drive by wire. It is most definately a software issue. Mine has had two updates already. It sounds like some of the issue is the adaptive cruise control. You never said if it was engage or not? Do yourself a favor and try it again after they update the software. There is NO way that truck will overheat. It has extra cooling capacity with the tow package. The fans are controled by the software.

2012FB 02-04-2014 10:07 AM

We test drove the 2014 ML350 BlueTec and the 2014 Touareg TDI and am surprised, no shocked, to discover the following:

Touareg tongue limit is 616 pounds. The Touareg owners manual expressly prohibits the use of a weight distributing hitch. Would you tow 7,700 with the full 616 on the hitch with out a WDH? Really??

ML350 tongue limit is 576 pounds. The ML350 owners manual does not mention the use of a WDH but it does state: "The maximum permissible trailer drawbar nose weight is the maximum weight with which the trailer drawbar can be loaded. Limit for Mercedes-Benz-approved trailer couplings." There is a mechanical illustration of the specifications and limits of locating the ball, which does not reference a WDH.

The Grand Cherokee has a tongue limit of 740 pounds and recommends the use of a properly installed WDH for over 5,000.

Both MB and VW dealers stated unequivocally that their employees and other customers tow up to 32 foot Airstreams without issue and not to worry.

Exactly what are you guys with Touareg and ML350 doing to get around the specific limits of the manufacture's?

My 2012 25FB has a tongue weight of 837 pounds. I have considered removing the spare/hanger assy, one battery and one LP tank but still will be over. I could move both batteries.

I would not consider towing with either without using a WDH.

I am bewildered at the statements and images of Airstreams being towed by all kinds of vehicles that are obviously over the manufactures specifications.

Guess I will be forced to say with my Sierra HD2500. My wife and I really wanted to get a more comfortable and economical SUV.


Denis4x4 02-04-2014 10:47 AM

2 Attachment(s)
2012FB...did you actually put the trailer on a Shurline scale or is that the factory number? Interestingly enough, I traded in a 2012 Sierra HD2500 4x4 crew cab for the 2013 Grand Cherokee hemi with the factory tow package. The tongue with a Propride hitch is 1050# and the only disadvantage is that I can't take a lot of extra crap I really didn't need or use! The 2006 25FB weighs 6280 ready to use.

dkottum 02-04-2014 11:08 AM

Good job Denis, a ProPride install properly weighed to know weight on the receiver before w.d. is applied.

Is the Jeep GC factory receiver strong enough for your use, no reinforcement needed?

2012FB 02-04-2014 11:20 AM

Trailer Build/MSRP Sticker Number. So your ok with being 310 over?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis4x4 (Post 1411599)
2012FB...did you actually put the trailer on a Shurline scale or is that the factory number? Interestingly enough, I traded in a 2012 Sierra HD2500 4x4 crew cab for the 2013 Grand Cherokee hemi with the factory tow package. The tongue with a Propride hitch is 1050# and the only disadvantage is that I can't take a lot of extra crap I really didn't need or use! The 2006 25FB weighs 6280 ready to use.


dznf0g 02-04-2014 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411622)
Trailer Build/MSRP Sticker Number. So your ok with being 310 over?

Dennis is showing receiver weight...not TW

2012FB 02-04-2014 12:00 PM

The 740 pound limit is the weight placed on the TV hitch. Would it not include the receiver weight?


Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1411630)
Dennis is showing receiver weight...not TW


rostam 02-04-2014 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1411630)
Dennis is showing receiver weight...not TW

If I may ask, what is the difference between the two?

johnhh 02-04-2014 12:41 PM

I have a 2014 JGC V6 gas. I tow a 25 ft. Tradewind. Tows great. 12 mpg pulling a fully loaded Airstream, 21 mpg around town, 24/25 mpg on the highway.

The manual does state a tongue wieght limit of 740 pounds, no mention of WD. In the sales literature it also states a tongue weight of 1200 pounds when using WD.

I have had trouble with the tranny shift points in the first few months of driving. Mostly an irratant, not a real problem. I found out, the tranny software adapts over time to your driving. The shift points have all smoothed out over the last few months. Now it's real smooth.

I did have CanAm reinforce the hitch. They welded on a simple square tube to the front cross bracket The shop guy said his brother in-law had a new GC and the hitch had bent maybe 1/4" after a trip to the Rockies and back. So for WD the reinforcement is a good idea.

John H

dznf0g 02-04-2014 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411662)
The 740 pound limit is the weight placed on the TV hitch. Would it not include the receiver weight?

Yes, I see that now. Sorry. at 1200 using WD, he's fine though.

Rostam, Receiver weight includes all that you see in the picture. TW basically includes all from the ball coupler back, including the PP jacks and a PORTION of the bar weight....but not any of the PP head nor stinger.

dznf0g 02-04-2014 12:54 PM

TW is a trailer a-frame/coupler spec, and receiver weight is a vehicle/receiver spec.

2012FB 02-04-2014 02:15 PM

Here is what I find amusing. NOT! In continuing to look for a nicer smaller TV I thought how about a Land Rover LR4 and yes you guessed it, 7,716 capacity but only 550 tongue limit. What do they show at the top of the page just above the towing limits. A LR4 towing what looks like at least a 25' Airstream.

https://www.roverguide.com/8599/land-...ng-capacities/

I just heard back from VW and they said to contact Airstream for their specific recommendation for towing my Airstream with the Touareg. If it wasn't for the specific warning about not using a WD this would be my first choice.

I also just heard back from MB and they instructed me to take the trailer to an Airstream dealer to remove weight from the tongue to less than 576. They had no idea either way about the WD. I don't see getting to under 600 pounds on mine. Relocate both batteries to the mid closet, both LP tanks, spare tire and hanger, put air mattresses in. Is one of the holding tanks far enough back to add balance? Kidding.

Stupid me has my wife besides herself after driving both the Touareg and ML350, as it was to be her daily driver instead of me in the truck.

jcl 02-04-2014 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411581)
Touareg tongue limit is 616 pounds. The Touareg owners manual expressly prohibits the use of a weight distributing hitch.

This may deserve a separate thread not focused on the Grand Cherokee.

There is lots of background on the ClubTouareg forum as well as this board on the various Touareg weight limits. The owner's manual has been updated more than once in recent years, although I am not sure specifically about the 2014 model. VW was sending updates out to those who wanted to reconcile the 770 lb hitch maximum label with the 616 lb maximum reference in the owner's manual. The hitch also had a label saying 770 lbs when using weight distribution, inconsistent with the owner's manual warning.

Personally, and this is just me, I would use weight distribution, and have the hitch reinforced or at least inspected as to its ability to handle typical weight distribution loads at the vehicle/hitch interface. The VW limits on tongue weight and WD appear to be about the hitch and its attachment, not the vehicle itself.

The 770 lbs figure is 10% of the 7700 lb (3500 kg) tow rating.
The 616 lbs figure is 8%.
The Landrover number you reference appears to be 7%.

The above leads some of us to believe that there is not a lot of engineering going into the published tongue weight limits, that they are somewhat arbitrary.

Everyone has to do what is right for them. I would consider the published maximum axle weights and tire load limits to be hard limits, and the published maximum tongue weight to be a reference to the stock VW hitch, not the vehicle.

SSquared 02-04-2014 03:11 PM

Euro Airstreams are lighter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411698)
Here is what I find amusing. NOT! In continuing to look for a nicer smaller TV I thought how about a Land Rover LR4 and yes you guessed it, 7,716 capacity but only 550 tongue limit. What do they show at the top of the page just above the towing limits. A LR4 towing what looks like at least a 25' Airstream.

https://www.roverguide.com/8599/land-...ng-capacities/

I just heard back from VW and they said to contact Airstream for their specific recommendation for towing my Airstream with the Touareg. If it wasn't for the specific warning about not using a WD this would be my first choice.

I also just heard back from MB and they instructed me to take the trailer to an Airstream dealer to remove weight from the tongue to less than 576. They had no idea either way about the WD. I don't see getting to under 600 pounds on mine. Relocate both batteries to the mid closet, both LP tanks, spare tire and hanger, put air mattresses in. Is one of the holding tanks far enough back to add balance? Kidding.

Stupid me has my wife besides herself after driving both the Touareg and ML350, as it was to be her daily driver instead of me in the truck.

I looked at the picture on the LR web site. The Airstream looks to be a European model 684 or 685. Max trailer weight under 6000 pounds, max "nose" weight 330 pounds. So the LR4 specs align with the AS specs....but you can't get that AS in the US.

rostam 02-04-2014 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhh (Post 1411675)
I have a 2014 JGC V6 gas. I tow a 25 ft. Tradewind. Tows great. 12 mpg pulling a fully loaded Airstream, 21 mpg around town, 24/25 mpg on the highway.

The manual does state a tongue wieght limit of 740 pounds, no mention of WD. In the sales literature it also states a tongue weight of 1200 pounds when using WD.

I have had trouble with the tranny shift points in the first few months of driving. Mostly an irratant, not a real problem. I found out, the tranny software adapts over time to your driving. The shift points have all smoothed out over the last few months. Now it's real smooth.

I did have CanAm reinforce the hitch. They welded on a simple square tube to the front cross bracket The shop guy said his brother in-law had a new GC and the hitch had bent maybe 1/4" after a trip to the Rockies and back. So for WD the reinforcement is a good idea.

John H

Just wondering, where did you get that 1200# figure? The manual states 740# for 4X2 and 720# for 4X4.

2012FB 02-04-2014 04:41 PM

I just sent he Jeep sales manager another email asking to be put in touch with the regional rep.. I also asked about the tongue limit with WDH. I can not find anything other than the 740 in the manual. I do remember seeing it referred to as a Class IV hitch which would support the 1200 but that's not what the manual states.

dznf0g 02-04-2014 05:07 PM

I looked up the owner manual online...and I can't find any other reference either. It seems quite incomplete in it's towing info.

DKB_SATX 02-04-2014 05:15 PM

The Jeep Towing Guide online shows the Hemi with a Class IV, EcoDiesel with a Class III.

andreasduess 02-04-2014 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411581)
I am bewildered at the statements and images of Airstreams being towed by all kinds of vehicles that are obviously over the manufactures specifications.

Personally, I would have zero problems fitting both the VW and/or the Mercedes with the appropriate WD hitch and tow away.

The hitch would most probably need reinforcement, but once that's done both vehicles appear to serve their owners extremely well.

2012FB 02-04-2014 05:46 PM

I was building the GC with the Hemi and tow but at the end when I was looking at dealer inventory the top match turned out to be a Eco Diesel with the Trailer Tow Group IV:

Rear Load Leveling Suspension
Engine Oil Cooler
Delete Rear Tow Hook
Heavy Duty Engine Cooling
7 and 4 pin wiring harness
Class IV Receiver Hitch

On paper this looks like the real deal (Class IV Receiver Hitch) I just need to test another unit to determine if the overheating and shifting issues were real or problems they don't want to admit. I would also want someone to confirm that the full Class IV hitch ratings are applied to the vehicle.

There is not much price difference between the Hemi and the EcoDiesel but there sure is with fuel economy.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX (Post 1411765)
The Jeep Towing Guide online shows the Hemi with a Class IV, EcoDiesel with a Class III.


rostam 02-04-2014 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam (Post 1411730)
Just wondering, where did you get that 1200# figure? The manual states 740# for 4X2 and 720# for 4X4.


Given the link DKB_SATX just sent, I doubt the 1200# hitch weight be correct as most GC's seem to have a payload less than 1100#. I don't think reinforcing the hitch would solve the problem, as most likely the payload would be exceeded anyway.

dkottum 02-04-2014 06:41 PM

When you compare Hemi to EcoDiesel economy consider the difference in fuel cost, and purchase cost with it's associated expenses (taxes, interest), as well as any higher diesel servicing costs.

Jim Flower 02-04-2014 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX (Post 1411765)
The Jeep Towing Guide online shows the Hemi with a Class IV, EcoDiesel with a Class III.


You may want to dig a bit deeper on the web site. The only hitch available on a GC is a Class 1V. You may also wish to read the Motor Trend article on the SUV comparison. Jim

DKB_SATX 02-04-2014 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower (Post 1411803)
You may want to dig a bit deeper on the web site. The only hitch available on a GC is a Class 1V. You may also wish to read the Motor Trend article on the SUV comparison. Jim

Perhaps you meant to say "Jeep may want to correct their website"? I did not create the Jeep web page on which it lists Class III for several configs of the Grand Cherokee.

Jim Flower 02-04-2014 07:28 PM

Yes. That would be a good start. My reference was to the listings for the individual models found on the same web site that correctly identifies the Class1V hitch availability when a hitch is specified. Jim

gmw photos 02-04-2014 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411783)
.....snip.......

I would also want someone to confirm that the full Class IV hitch ratings are applied to the vehicle.

There is not much price difference between the Hemi and the EcoDiesel but there sure is with fuel economy.

If I remember, class four limits are 10,000 pounds. Just because a car company puts a class four hitch on doesn't mean the rest of the vehicle is rated for that ?

Example: Nissan fits a class four hitch to my truck, but the truck is only rated to 6200 pounds.

hazelgreen 02-04-2014 08:26 PM

Class IV hitch is available option for limited but is standard on the Overland. It can be selected with the Hemi V8 or the Eco diesel. I have been looking into the Eco diesel jeep for months but waiting to see what real towing capabilities it can really do. I'm hoping we can get more input from users in real life towing situations with JGC Eco diesel especially. I personally would not consider towing our 1991 AS 25' Excella Classic as it is heavy and too close to top of the towing weight capacity. If we go the JGC we will have to get a smaller trailer.

Jim Flower 02-04-2014 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelgreen (Post 1411836)
Class IV hitch is available option for limited but is standard on the Overland. It can be selected with the Hemi V8 or the Eco diesel. I have been looking into the Eco diesel jeep for months but waiting to see what real towing capabilities it can really do. I'm hoping we can get more input from users in real life towing situations with JGC Eco diesel especially. I personally would not consider towing our 1991 AS 25' Excella Classic as it is heavy and too close to top of the towing weight capacity. If we go the JGC we will have to get a smaller trailer.

Hi hazelgreen,
I towed my 97 25' Safari 100,000 k with my 2008 Jeep GC 3L CRD diesel. I have towed my 2012 30' International 50,000 k with the same Jeep that now has 330,000k on it. My new one will be in next week. This one goes to my son who will put on 2 or 300,000 k before it turns into a piece of junk. I believe the 2014 Jeeps are better than the 2008 Jeeps. You do not have to get a smaller Airstream if you buy a Jeep. Jim

hazelgreen 02-04-2014 09:32 PM

Jim,
What kind of mileage did you get towing your Airstreams and did you do any towing in the mountains. I'm not concerned about the regular flat highways but know the mountain roads can really be quite a pull. We tow now with a 1990 Ford Supercab 4WD with a 460 but a 3:55 rear end. It has plenty of power all thought the 3:55 is not great in the mountains with this AS and our previous 31' AS. We want to get away from pulling with truck to have a smaller vehicle for site seeing after trailer is parked as well as better gas mileage. We get a whopping 7.5-8.5 mpg but we are also travel the highways at posted speeds. I'm glad that you had the previous GC and hope you like your new one as well. I hope that we are able to get one in the near future. We rented the GC Hemi last summer in Colorado to use for four wheeling as it was cheaper than buying to see if we liked the vehicle and it's off-road capabilities. It was great on the trail.

2012FB 02-05-2014 12:07 AM

155 miles round trip Denver to Silverthorne and averaged 15mpg.


Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelgreen (Post 1411860)
Jim,
What kind of mileage did you get towing your Airstreams and did you do any towing in the mountains.


Jim Flower 02-05-2014 05:58 AM

Hi hazelgreen,
I average 14.7 mpg on my trips south which include the hills of WV & V. I travel @ 62 mph when there is nobody around and I go with the flow when it gets busy. Sometimes that means 70 mph. Some times getting diesel fuel is a pain because the nozzle for cars is on the inside of the pump and getting maintenance from a Jeep dealer is almost impossible. I expect that may change a bit since they will now be obliged to train their mechanics. The best part happens all the rest of the time when you are not towing, 28 mpg approx, and it fits every where. Jim

rostam 02-05-2014 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower (Post 1411858)
Hi hazelgreen,
I towed my 97 25' Safari 100,000 k with my 2008 Jeep GC 3L CRD diesel. I have towed my 2012 30' International 50,000 k with the same Jeep that now has 330,000k on it. My new one will be in next week. This one goes to my son who will put on 2 or 300,000 k before it turns into a piece of junk. I believe the 2014 Jeeps are better than the 2008 Jeeps. You do not have to get a smaller Airstream if you buy a Jeep. Jim

Just wondering, has your jeep been modified? and are you within the specified payload and front/rear axle ratings?

Thanks

Jim Flower 02-05-2014 08:22 AM

Yes. Hitch mods by Can Am. I also put heavy duty Bilstein shocks on it in Sept when the originals no longer did their job. As for the rest of your question, sometimes. Jim

hazelgreen 02-05-2014 09:04 AM

Thanks Jim for your information. You are right that it would be nice to have the high mpg when not towing.

rostam 02-05-2014 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower (Post 1411957)
Yes. Hitch mods by Can Am. I also put heavy duty Bilstein shocks on it in Sept when the originals no longer did their job. As for the rest of your question, sometimes. Jim

Thanks for the update Jim. These metrics are critical for deciding what size Airstream others want to tow with their GC.

2012FB 02-06-2014 10:32 AM

I never heard back from the Jeep sales manager and would never consider contacting them again or any Jeep dealer for that matter. I am blown away that fuel is there one and only response to the tow issues knowing that I was reporting my experience/problems on the forums.

After talking with Andy at Can-Am for a considerable amount of time I decided on the ML350 and will be driving it up to have the hitch reinforced, brake control installed and have the receiver completely setup per his recommendations. When discussing all the options he was not keen on the Jeep air suspension. His first choice was the Cayenne, Touareg, ML350 and then the Jeep. I was leaning toward the Touareg but my wife liked the ML350 and she will be driving it 95% of the time. The other issue with the Touareg was the adamant response from both corporate and the dealer prohibiting the use of an WDH/Equalizer. The MB does not. I know with the same reinforcement from Can-Am on the Touareg it would work well but just not comfortable with liability when it is in writing not to use the WDH.

I got the ML350 for 11.7% off list at 3.49% interest. So this puts the MB within a few thousand dollars of the Jeep in Overland trim. So an easy decision for me other than the drive from Denver to Can-Am and back.

Best of wishes!!

DKB_SATX 02-06-2014 10:50 AM

I'm sure you'll be happy with the ML in general. When it comes time to buy another tow vehicle years down the road, I wouldn't write off every Jeep dealer because one dealership has a bad sales manager, though.

JamuJoe 02-06-2014 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower (Post 1411858)
Hi hazelgreen,
I towed my 97 25' Safari 100,000 k with my 2008 Jeep GC 3L CRD diesel. I have towed my 2012 30' International 50,000 k with the same Jeep that now has 330,000k on it. My new one will be in next week. This one goes to my son who will put on 2 or 300,000 k before it turns into a piece of junk. I believe the 2014 Jeeps are better than the 2008 Jeeps. You do not have to get a smaller Airstream if you buy a Jeep. Jim


Jim,
I agree, the 08 GC CRD is a fine tow vehicle, I was reluctant to part with mine until my son decided to buy it. Now I won't have to loan him my new GC when he borrows the Airstream:)

I expect that you will be as happy as I am with the new diesel. The vehicle is superior in so many ways!

BTW: I negotiated the order based upon cash purchase, and when it came time for delivery, the salesman said "would you like to take the 0% financing?" Icing on the cake!

Safe Travels,
Joe

Jim Flower 02-06-2014 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamuJoe (Post 1412497)
Jim,
I agree, the 08 GC CRD is a fine tow vehicle, I was reluctant to part with mine until my son decided to buy it. Now I won't have to loan him my new GC when he borrows the Airstream:)

I expect that you will be as happy as I am with the new diesel. The vehicle is superior in so many ways!

BTW: I negotiated the order based upon cash purchase, and when it came time for delivery, the salesman said "would you like to take the 0% financing?" Icing on the cake!

Safe Travels,
Joe


My son in Fort Lauderdale will also end up with the 2008 GC but in my case, it is a gift given the 330,000 k it has on it and his allowing us to camp in his front yard. All my previous Jeeps (6) have been passed down to family members and last about 500,000k (20 years) before turning into to a pile of rust in the driveway. They are all mechanically sound but their bodies rust away due to the impact of salt on the roads during our winter. Lend your Airstream? You are a special Dad! My son that lives a little closer has his own Globetrotter. Tows it with my old 2003 GC (495,000k).
I have attached photos of us somewhere on a previous post.
I hope the new diesel is as good as the old CRD that Jeep inherited from Mercedes . I am optimistic given the tryouts that the Jeep has had for a few years in other countries. Jim

2012FB 02-20-2014 09:32 PM

To date and several more emails still no reply from the Jeep sales manager.

I just got back from a 3,000 mile round trip in 4 days from Denver to Can-Am RV Centre to have the new ML350 hitch re-enforced, brake controller installed, shank reset and friction brake added to the Dual Cam (Andy's insistence). I only wish Andy and his crew were located here in Denver. What a great experience/service!! Everything is now set up and I can't wait for the first trip Denver to Phoenix next month.

kellykellyi 02-20-2014 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1418138)
To date and several more emails still no reply from the Jeep sales manager.

I just got back from a 3,000 mile round trip in 4 days from Denver to Can-Am RV Centre to have the new ML350 hitch re-enforced, brake controller installed, shank reset and friction brake added to the Dual Cam (Andy's insistence). I only wish Andy and his crew were located here in Denver. What a great experience/service!! Everything is now set up and I can't wait for the first trip Denver to Phoenix next month.


I can't wait to hear if your towing experience. I am just about to pull the trigger on a GL350 BlueTec. Keep us updated

StokerDoc 02-21-2014 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1418138)
To date and several more emails still no reply from the Jeep sales manager.

I just got back from a 3,000 mile round trip in 4 days from Denver to Can-Am RV Centre to have the new ML350 hitch re-enforced, brake controller installed, shank reset and friction brake added to the Dual Cam (Andy's insistence). I only wish Andy and his crew were located here in Denver. What a great experience/service!! Everything is now set up and I can't wait for the first trip Denver to Phoenix next month.

We have a GL 350 on order. Production date of Feb 26. Hoping for a mid March delivery. I'm very excited about towing with the torque of the diesel and the smooth comfortable car like handling the ML and GL have.

r carl 02-21-2014 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1411698)
I also just heard back from MB and they instructed me to take the trailer to an Airstream dealer to remove weight from the tongue to less than 576. They had no idea either way about the WD. I don't see getting to under 600 pounds on mine. Relocate both batteries to the mid closet, both LP tanks, spare tire and hanger, put air mattresses in. Is one of the holding tanks far enough back to add balance? Kidding.

Stupid me has my wife besides herself after driving both the Touareg and ML350, as it was to be her daily driver instead of me in the truck.

Wont happen, airstream wont modify a trailer so that it will sway like crazy. :eek:

r carl 02-21-2014 06:35 AM

Why does a GL 350 have a 50k powertrain warranty and a GC have a 100k warranty?

xrvr 02-21-2014 06:39 AM

I thought tis was a jeep thread. Jim

Airstreamer67 02-21-2014 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r carl (Post 1418201)
Wont happen, airstream wont modify a trailer so that it will sway like crazy. :eek:

Doesn't Airstream offer units in Europe? There must be a way to do it, for a price.

johnhh 02-21-2014 08:24 AM

Hey, 2012FB,

A question - why did Andy insist on using a friction brake with the dual cam?

John H

2012FB 02-21-2014 08:45 AM

This was a consideration when comparing the ML350 to the Touareg as the GC is completely out of the picture.

This is about the least costly marketing incentive for the manufacture. The limited 100k warranty is "limited" to inside the covers of the primary components (engine, trans, differentials). These are not items that routinely fail, so not much risk. It is usually all the other little items that keeps the vehicle repeatedly in the shop for extended stretches of time. I am very confident that the ML350 will in that respect be better than the rest based on past experiences with both MB and domestic brands.

Why did Hyundai start the trend? Poor quality history and buyer fear. All manufactures continue to increase the warranty periods out of competition. This is a good thing for all, but I would prefer the vehicle that is least likely to need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by r carl (Post 1418202)
Why does a GL 350 have a 50k powertrain warranty and a GC have a 100k warranty?


dznf0g 02-21-2014 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012FB (Post 1418240)
This was a consideration when comparing the ML350 to the Touareg as the GC is completely out of the picture.

This is about the least costly marketing incentive for the manufacture. The limited 100k warranty is "limited" to inside the covers of the primary components (engine, trans, differentials). These are not items that routinely fail, so not much risk. It is usually all the other little items that keeps the vehicle repeatedly in the shop for extended stretches of time. I am very confident that the ML350 will in that respect be better than the rest based on past experiences with both MB and domestic brands.

Why did Hyundai start the trend? Poor quality history and buyer fear. All manufactures continue to increase the warranty periods out of competition. This is a good thing for all, but I would prefer the vehicle that is least likely to need it.

Not necessarily, there are some long warranty vehicles which equal or exceed MB durability.

Top Rated SUVs - 2014 Vehicle Dependability Study

2012FB 02-21-2014 08:56 AM

As he explained it:

Long sweeping onramp with a dip in the middle. As the TV and Trailer compress in the dip the dual cam by design will unload and there can be a moment of instability. He is an extremely knowledgeable, experienced and conservative fellow. I trust his recommendation and it is cheap and easy!

I personally love the dual cam. It has been amazing with two different trucks losing rear traction swinging out with the dual cam bringing it back in without hitting the trailer brakes. In the past when running dual friction brakes on a 32' you would have to be very quick to the trailer brakes.

This is a hazard of driving in and out of Denver throughout the winter months.

I am really looking forward to the full time 4 wheel drive on the ML.


Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhh (Post 1418235)
Hey, 2012FB,

A question - why did Andy insist on using a friction brake with the dual cam?

John H


johnhh 02-21-2014 09:22 AM

I too have used a dual cam for many years. On our last year trip to Banff and back I noticed some trailer sway. Actually i never could see any actual sway occur but I could feel it, kind of a jittery feeling thru my seat. It just kept me kind of nervous during the trip. Maybe it was the JGC tires (18" Michelin) or air pressure, I don't know. But for $1,000 I bought a used ProPride and the jitters went away.

I should have just added a friction brake and saved the money.....

dznf0g 02-21-2014 09:38 AM

I still own my dual cam as a backup system. The jitters with a dual cam are due to the saddles not riding fully with both edges of the bar "ramps" on the cams.

Any relatively significant weight change in tv or trailer which changes the vertical angle between the TT and TV (at the ball) will cause the cams to ride up on either the front or rear bar ramps. When the cams are not seated, the bar tension wants to force the cam into its bar socket.
This causes a twitchy on center feel. I found that as little as .020" clearance between bar ramp and cam caused this feeling. Simply loosening the cam length nut and adjusting on the road, and using a feeler gauge, kept things right.

Keep in mind, it's not like you have to do this every day....only when load changes by a few hundred pounds.

2012FB 02-21-2014 09:50 AM

Andy spent nearly a hour going over the instructions for setting up/adjusting the twin cam and the importance of checking it and re-adjusting it periodically. There are also points in the whole head assembly that can wear/work loose contributing to the subtle sway you were feeling. He actually recommended a welded shank assembly but my twin cam head was cast iron so he could not do it. He also changed out my original shank with one that pulled the ball in as close as possible. Nearly 4" closer than the other Airstream dealer setup when I bought it. I'll repeat the drive up there was well worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhh (Post 1418263)
I too have used a dual cam for many years. On our last year trip to Banff and back I noticed some trailer sway. Actually i never could see any actual sway occur but I could feel it, kind of a jittery feeling thru my seat. It just kept me kind of nervous during the trip. Maybe it was the JGC tires (18" Michelin) or air pressure, I don't know. But for $1,000 I bought a used ProPride and the jitters went away.

I should have just added a friction brake and saved the money.....


johnhh 02-21-2014 02:31 PM

Thanks for the information. I have the older style dual cam units that do not have the screw adjustability. To Rich's point, I suspect i was not exact enough in positioning. Tho wear may also factor in (they are old units).

I'll keep the ProPride on my '78 Tradewind but will use the dual cam on my '67 Safari and dial it in more closely. - Everybody needs two Airstreams, right?

John H


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