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Old 11-12-2020, 12:42 PM   #441
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Fredericksburg , Texas
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186 Flying Clouds Now Identified

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinderbitzen View Post
New the Forum and Airstreams, we purchased a 1954 Flying Cloud, 7709, we are in Parker, CO.
Congratulations on your purchase! You have been added to the list: CaptainJones Flying Cloud Registry 11-12-2020.pdf

If you get a chance, let us know how you came to find her and/or upload photos?

Thanks,
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:48 AM   #442
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1963 22' Flying Cloud
New Harbor , Maine
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Hi, Frank here on MidCoast Maine with a 1963 Flying Cloud s/n 223F143

has a fading Wally Number 7213. may I reuse that, or do I re-register?
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Old 12-12-2020, 03:43 PM   #443
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1966 22' Safari
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187 Flying Clouds

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Originally Posted by fruffing View Post
Hi, Frank here on MidCoast Maine with a 1963 Flying Cloud s/n 223F143

has a fading Wally Number 7213. may I reuse that, or do I re-register?
Hi Frank and welcome; you are the last Flying Cloud in the Registry: CaptainJones Flying Cloud Registry 12-12-2020.pdf

Concerning the faded WBCCI number on your trailer, you can ask 66Overlander (Joe); he is the WBCCI Historian. People ask him to research numbers on THIS THREAD.

I believe if the number is currently unassigned you can request it when you join the club.
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Old 12-12-2020, 06:50 PM   #444
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1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Southeast , Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fruffing View Post
Hi, Frank here on MidCoast Maine with a 1963 Flying Cloud s/n 223F143

has a fading Wally Number 7213. may I reuse that, or do I re-register?
Fruffing,
Your Flying Cloud is one of the last ones built, just four from the end of Flying Cloud production in Ohio as the last one built there was 223F147.

We don't know the build date of your Ohio FC, but the last California built 1963 FC was SN 22SS1110 completed in June 1963, so we might guess yours was completed in May or June 1963.

And since I am in a writing mood, Ohio 1963 FC's received their own sequence numbers from "002" ("001" was cancelled and never built) thru "147".

California 1963 FCs were intermixed with Safari's using the same serial number sequences, that ran from "0876" thru "1116". Early in the 1963 model year a "T" in the 3rd position indicated either a Safari Twin or a Flying Cloud, while a "D" was used for a Safari Double, which was the same as was used in 1962. Later in the 1963 model year, California FCs used an "S" in the 3rd position to differentiate them from Safari Twins that still used a "T". The first FC to use an "S" in the 3rd position was "0982" built in December 1962.

Finally, since I am writing, I might as well answer your inquiry about WBCCI big red number 7213. It is very appropriate that #7213 was first assigned in 1963 (thus first appearing in the 1964 Membership Directory), suggesting the original assignees might have been the original owners of your 1963 FC. Here is how #7213 has been assigned according to WBCCI Membership Directories thru the years:
  • 1964-67: Bockewitz (last name only, no additional information).
  • 1968: Airstream
  • 1969-2000: William H. & Madelyn Machen, East Springfield, OH (1969), Mesa, AZ (2000), caravans 121 - Yucatan Winter 1979, N15B - Maple Leaf Trail 1986, N16D - Maple Leaf Trail 1987, & N20B - Nor' by Nor' East 1991
  • 2001: Unassigned, did not check further.
What can we guess from this? I will guess that the Bockewitz's were the original owners, but cannot tell you anything else about them. I have occasionally see a last name only listed in the numerical listings, with no accompanying detailed listing in the alphabetical listings, but I have never before seen this continue for 4 years. I can only guess that the Bockewitz's either requested that their full names and address not be listed, or perhaps they did not renew for 1964 and the office staff failed to remove their number for the numerical listings for a few years.

In the 1960s, it was common for Airstream to "acquire" and "release" unused numbers for use by company staff, so the fact that #7213 was assigned to Airstream for one year does not really indicate that Airstream would have owned your 1963 FC in 1968.

And is seems unlikely that the Machens who lived not far from the Ohio Airstream factory in 1969 would have owned your California built FC, but I guess that possibility cannot be 100% ruled out.

Sorry I cannot provide anything more definitive regarding the history on #7213

#7213 is currently assigned in 2020, so you unfortunately cannot currently be assigned that number, but the office staff can hopefully help you find something similar. For example 17213 might be available.

Enjoy your Flying Cloud!
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Old 12-12-2020, 10:59 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba L View Post
Hi Frank and welcome; you are the last Flying Cloud in the Registry: Attachment 384798
I reviewed this file and have some corrections to note as follows:
  • Ohio 1952 was only O-0001 to O-0002 (not O-0001 to O-0004). You are perhaps getting things confused with OO-0001 thru OO-0004 which were Byam Travelers, a "canned ham" precursor to the 1954-55 Wally Byam's Holiday.
  • 1950 thru 1957 California Serial Number breakpoints are all approximate guesses as actual production records do not exist before December 1957 which was already in the 1958 model year. 1953 thru 1956 Ohio breakpoints are also approximate as while production records do exist, Airstream did not record when production changed from one model year to the next until the start of the 1957 model year for Flying Clouds. I hope to work with Airstream's company Achivist/Historian to establish our best "agreed" guess as to these serial number breakpoints in the near future.
  • 1957 Ohio ended at O-3471.
  • 1958 California added the leading "22" at 22-8533 according to production records (8532 had no leading "22"), so the 1958 California SN should be ~8350 to 8532 and 22-8533 to 22-8609.
  • 1958 Ohio is O-3500 to O-3544 (just confirming)
  • 1959 California should be 22D0100 thru 22S0270, but this includes a very few 22' World Travelers and "specials" (code "S" instead of "T" or "D").
  • 1959 Ohio should be 229001 to 229225 and included Caravanners, Falcons, and World Travelers as well as Flying Clouds ("I" prefix for Internationals from 1959 thru 1963 for Ohio only)
  • 1960 California should be 22D0271 to 22DSS0418, no "S" early, then either "S" or "SS" where "SS" indicated fully self contained while single "S" did not, "T" and "D" both still indicate a Flying Cloud.
  • 1960 Ohio built no Flying Clouds according to production records. SNs 220226D to 220408D included Caravanners, Falcons, and Safaris only ("I" still applies)
  • 1961 California should be 22TSS0419 to 22DSS0629 and included Flying Clouds and Spaceliners (Spaceliners had a "TD" instead of "T" or "D") ("S" and "SS" still apply)
  • 1961 Ohio built no Flying Clouds according to production records. SNs 221425T to 221T599 and included Safaris and Falcons only ("I" still applies)
  • 1962 California should be 22TSS0630 to 22TSS0875 and included Flying Clouds and Safaris. "D"= Double Bed Safari, "T" = Flying Cloud or Twin Bed Safari ("S" and "SS" still apply)
  • 1962 Ohio should be 222F101 to 222F128 ("I" still applies)
  • 1963 California should be 22DSS0876 to 22TS1116 and included both Flying Clouds and Safaris, "D" = Double Bed Safari, "T" = Flying Cloud or Twin Bed Safari thru 22TSS0977, the last Flying Cloud to use a "T", "S" in the 3rd position = Flying Cloud from 22SS0982 (the first Flying Cloud to use an "S" rather than a "T" ) to 22SS1110 the last Flying Cloud built in California, ("S" or "SS" applied thru 22TSS0980, then only "S" (unless a Flying Cloud) from 22TS0981 onward when all became fully self contained)
  • 1963 Ohio should be 223F102 (223F101 was canceled and never built) to 223F147 (the last Ohio Flying Cloud built until the 2000s) ("I" still applies)
I hope this text description is clear. IM or email me if you need clarification.
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Old 12-13-2020, 09:14 AM   #446
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1966 22' Safari
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Fredericksburg , Texas
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188 Flying Clouds and SN Updates

jsrodgers' '53 FC has been added to bring the count to 188. Additionally, the serial number data has been updated to reflect 66Overlander's production data; very interesting. Thanks Joe!
CaptainJones Flying Cloud Registry12-13-20.pdf
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Old 12-13-2020, 04:43 PM   #447
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1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba L View Post
jsrodgers' '53 FC has been added to bring the count to 188. Additionally, the serial number data has been updated to reflect 66Overlander's production data; very interesting. Thanks Joe!
Attachment 384814
Hi Bubba,
I have noticed that your file suggests that in actual 1958 California Flying Cloud production the addition of the leading "22" may not have exactly aligned with Airstream production records. This is not unexpected as the staff in the office and on the line may not have received that change order at exactly the same time.

It should also be noted that Airstreams were often not built in exact serial number order, so it could be that there are a few Airstreams built with "non 22" SNs that have SNs higher than the lowest "leading 22" SN, as likely this change was applied in the order on the production line, not by serial number sequence. I would expect this possible intermix to only impact SNs relatively close to 8532/22-8533.
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Old 12-13-2020, 11:44 PM   #448
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
Petaluma , California
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Hi Greg.
Great idea. Nice to know where the flock is.
1956 Flying Cloud
S/N 8123
Petaluma, Ca
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:55 AM   #449
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Fredericksburg , Texas
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Dupe found, back to 187 FC Identified

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
Hi Bubba,
I have noticed that your file suggests that in actual 1958 California Flying Cloud production the addition of the leading "22" may not have exactly aligned with Airstream production records. This is not unexpected as the staff in the office and on the line may not have received that change order at exactly the same time.

It should also be noted that Airstreams were often not built in exact serial number order, so it could be that there are a few Airstreams built with "non 22" SNs that have SNs higher than the lowest "leading 22" SN, as likely this change was applied in the order on the production line, not by serial number sequence. I would expect this possible intermix to only impact SNs relatively close to 8532/22-8533.
Thanks Joe,
I added this additional information into the registry comments just because it is so interesting to understand the workings back then. We did find a dupe entry because 1958 SN 8531 was also entered as 22-8531. The previous owner confirmed it was a dupe.
CaptainJones Flying Cloud Registry 12-14-20.pdf
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:25 AM   #450
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1963 22' Flying Cloud
New Harbor , Maine
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You folks are amazing. Thanks for the dedication. Seeing as I rolled off the line May 1963, I’m good with your read on my rig’s build. Hope to see some of you on the other side of this winter. Be safe
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:19 AM   #451
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1954 22' Flying Cloud
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Ojai , CA
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Joe thank you very much for your efforts and fabulous job as the club historian
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Old 04-09-2021, 05:30 PM   #452
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1968 30' Sovereign
Rockford , Michigan
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So this 1954 Flying Cloud serial # O 3617 followed my truck home this week. Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0333.jpg
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ID:	392817 Home is Rockford, MI. About 1 1/2 miles from where this has been parked for 20+ years
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:12 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
So this 1954 Flying Cloud serial # O 3617 followed my truck home this week. Attachment 392817 Home is Rockford, MI. About 1 1/2 miles from where this has been parked for 20+ years
Congratulations! But, there has to be an error with your reported serial number. The last Ohio Flying Cloud built with that serial number format was O3544 in 1958. It does appear to a 1954 Flying Cloud, though. O3217 was built in May 1954, which could be appropriate.
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:12 PM   #454
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1966 22' Safari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
So this 1954 Flying Cloud serial # O 3617 followed my truck home this week. Attachment 392817 Home is Rockford, MI. About 1 1/2 miles from where this has been parked for 20+ years
Could that serial number be O 3217? Thanks
Thanks Joe, it took me awhile to look up the numbers. That makes sense though.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:37 PM   #455
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1968 30' Sovereign
Rockford , Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba L View Post
Could that serial number be O 3217? Thanks

Thanks Joe, it took me awhile to look up the numbers. That makes sense though.


My bad! Click image for larger version

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Old 04-09-2021, 09:24 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
We’ll enter it in the registry. Thanks for confirming.
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:05 AM   #457
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Fredericksburg , Texas
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188 Flying Clouds in the Registry

Registry has been updated with newas4mark's find:
CaptainJones Flying Cloud Registry 4-10-21.pdf
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Old 04-10-2021, 03:09 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
O3167 would make this a 21' Flying Could with a vertical rear end, rather than a 22' Flying Cloud with a sloped rear end that began at approximately Ohio SN O3182. O3167 was built 11/20/1953, which could make it either a late 1953 model or an early 1954 model. Unfortunately, the Airstream Ohio plant did not record model year breakpoints in their production records back then, so we are somewhat left to guess. I can say that Airstream advertising claimed the sloped rear end and extra foot in length was a "new for 1954" change. The question is did this change really occur part way thru the 1954 model year? . . . at least for Ohio. The change likely occurred slightly earlier for California.

It is on my eventual "to do" list to work with the Airstream company Historian to come to our "best guess" agreement as to the approximate model year vs. serial number breakpoints for the years prior to 1958, but we haven't had time to do this yet. Right now, I would tend to call O3167 a 1953, but that could change. It could very well be titled as a 1954 as back then they were often titled according to the year they were first registered and being built in late November 1953, it is quite possible it was not sold, registered, and titled until some time in 1954.

It is a cool trailer none the less.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:14 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
O3167 would make this a 21' Flying Could with a vertical rear end, rather than a 22' Flying Cloud with a sloped rear end that began at approximately Ohio SN O3182. O3167 was built 11/20/1953, which could make it either a late 1953 model or an early 1954 model. Unfortunately, the Airstream Ohio plant did not record model year breakpoints in their production records back then, so we are somewhat left to guess. I can say that Airstream advertising claimed the sloped rear end and extra foot in length was a "new for 1954" change. The question is did this change really occur part way thru the 1954 model year? . . . at least for Ohio. The change likely occurred slightly earlier for California.

It is on my eventual "to do" list to work with the Airstream company Historian to come to our "best guess" agreement as to the approximate model year vs. serial number breakpoints for the years prior to 1958, but we haven't had time to do this yet. Right now, I would tend to call O3167 a 1953, but that could change. It could very well be titled as a 1954 as back then they were often titled according to the year they were first registered and being built in late November 1953, it is quite possible it was not sold, registered, and titled until some time in 1954.

It is a cool trailer none the less.


Here is a street side picture that shows the whole trailer. It seems very restorable. All the wood is redeemable. Original fridge is gone. Heater is gone and hole in roof is patched. I will remove interior and lower panels to assess need for frame work/floor replacement before deciding whether shell needs to be removed. I did a shell off on my ‘68 so can if needed. Click image for larger version

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Old 04-11-2021, 09:23 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newas4mark View Post
Here is a street side picture that shows the whole trailer. It seems very restorable. All the wood is redeemable. Original fridge is gone. Heater is gone and hole in roof is patched. I will remove interior and lower panels to assess need for frame work/floor replacement before deciding whether shell needs to be removed. I did a shell off on my ‘68 so can if needed. Attachment 392956
It looks very "restorable" with such a nice shell. It is interesting to see the C.M. Hoof teardrop side marker lights. I have seen those on 1954 and 1955 Ohio built Airstreams before, but this might be the earliest Airstream I have even seen that style on being built in November 1953 and the only one I have seen so far with a vertical rear end and that lamp style. I am not currently certain if that style was ever used on California Airstreams. This just goes to show that there is always something new to learn about vintage Airstreams.
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