total overhaul need advice

[74Argosy24MH]

I'm against the airbag concept, and the heavy motorized lift system. I think both will be super-expensive and heavy to drag around, and in the latter will make one side hundreds of pounds heavier than the other.

Go pneumatic, forget the heavy motors (although a high speed gear reduction motor isn't very heavy; the jack screw would probably weigh more than the motor but a mechanical system would require more maintenance). I have a couple of Bimba cylinders I am using for another lift project, 2 1/2" bore, 24" stroke that will lift 1000 lbs. with 100 lbs of air. They are 8 lbs each with mounts. A 12v Thomas compressor and a 3 gallon air tank, another 15 lbs. If you use steel for the lift and bracing that will probably add another 20 lbs over the weight you remove when you pull the old step well. Control switches, plumbing, wiring and valves another 5 lbs. The compressor, valves, and tank can be on the street side, what you end up with curb side would be like a spare tire laying in front of the door.

I paid $150 each for the cylinders (over kill for the weight and stroke needed plus these have stainless rods, what is needed would be closer to $100), compressor $100, air tank $35, 1 valve (gravity will take it down) $50, flow controls/mufflers, tube, fittings, wiring, switches solenoid, etc. $75, steel $50.

About $500 and 75 lbs.

John

[nevisstudio]

hey guys! thanks for the reply! rich will be on the computer later and will probably post back to your comments, but the coincidental thing is that we were talking about the "medieval bridge" idea last night with friends over dinner. we were calling it the "spaceship door"! we were thinking of those sci-fi spaceship doors from those tv shows from the 60's. it seems like it is going to be raining here for the next 2 weeks in oregon so we will have time to draw some ideas up. he is way more technical than me and has been dealing with all sorts of ramps for about 11 years, so he will have a good grasp of these concepts.
thanks
cheryl

[74Argosy24MH]

I used 2 hinges like this on the panel across the front of my mh. When the pins are out it is a hinge, squeeze the handles together and it separates. A couple of sets of these large enough and the door could swing normally or down for a ramp.

John

[59toaster]

I'm against the airbag concept, and the heavy motorized lift system. I think both will be super-expensive and heavy to drag around, and in the latter will make one side hundreds of pounds heavier than the other. You could call it the leaning trailer of Pisa, though.

I agree that the weght of a lift is to much. I doubt the air suspension will ad 100lb to the coach.

As for reliability........How many 60,000 lb trucks do you see dragging their bumpers on the ground? They almost all have air suspension these days as do most caddies, high end SUV's. Air Bags are very reliable now. Compressor fails or power issue...$10 bicycle pump can inflate them no problem.

The coach may well already have a air supply. My 59 does. It's the Air over water potable water system that all the older vintage units had. I think 63 had it as well. One two way valve and a 12v swtich mounted just inside the door will make it operable.

Drop axle was standard on airstreams till right around 63. This coach may be more ready for bags then you think if it's still a leafe spring model like ours is. I just put one of these oaches together. You can get the tires a good way up into the wheel wells. Smaller diameter tire is what would be needed at worst if it as close.

Rubber bumpstops are no big deal for a unexpeded failure of the air system. It would also be no big deal to add a simple warning system to give notice of a loss of air pressure. Nice bright $5 red light from auto zone in the front window hooked to a 30psi low pressure switch that goes for about $10 and you got it.

Like I said, I wish you were closer. I'd build it just for the fun of it.

My idea is to make it look as factory as possible. None of the modifications noticable. Everything within Rich's means to operate. Only thing I don't have worked out is how to get the top of the ramp up the last couple inches to meet with the floor hight. Pulling it out is no biggie but it will be 5 inches below floor hight. Getting the top of the ramp that last coule inches with minimal effort is all I haven't had a idea on. Bet Rich does though.

I seriously think this could be done for around $600 or less in materials and the labor. If it already has the leaf spring suspension then under $400.

[Streamsaver]

What does everyone think about the type of ramp moving trucks have? You could remove the flip down step, and have a ramp slide out from the well. The ramp could be almost 8 feet long. It could either be under the frame or maybe even through the frame to be totally concealed.
With the frame reinforced, the ramp could slide into slots cut into the frame. Inside the belly pan. All you would see is the end of the ramp under the door. An aluminum ramp would be very light. With it mounted on rollers it could be pulled out with one hand. It would be about 2'' below the floor when extended. So a little flip down ramp on the door threshold would bridge the gap. Just a thought. I might make a sketch to explain the engineering a little.

[nevisstudio]

Hey all……

This is starting to be a creative and exciting post for us..

I have added a picture in this post and one on the next of the axel on out AS….as we can see there is not a lot of space as we see it…we are looking into possibly creating a channel in belly of the trailer so the axel can fit up into the belly for maximum travel….don’t know if this is possible but solution….

Onto the ramp-door…..this is funny because we were having a roundtable discussion on alternative ramp entrances and the ramp-door was our final decision for the trailer…we are looking at a pulley system that can lower the door with it hinged at the bottom….as for the ramp, as the door is lowered the ramp would slide-out/deploy giving maximum length…but we have some issues-
-the door is curved…so when using a straight ramp, when the door is closed the ramp will be intruding into the space….aesthetically ugly…
-pulley system…how can we hide it in the structure of the AS..
-re-enforcement of the door
-strength of hinge

thanks for the exciting replies….we know this is a big task but if we aren’t creative about it who will..

rich

[nevisstudio]

next

[bredlo]

Originally posted by nevisstudio
we have some issues-
-the door is curved…so when using a straight ramp, when the door is closed the ramp will be intruding into the space….aesthetically ugly…
-pulley system…how can we hide it in the structure of the AS..
-re-enforcement of the door
-strength of hinge

Hey Rich!

I haven't thought about all the items on your list, but here's a possible solution to the first one: aesthetics.

Using a U-channel type ramp, you'd create a 2-piece ramp. One half would be attached to the inside of the door, while the second would fold out from the top of the door. Both would be slightly bowed, creating the gentle "S" curve when opened in the second sketch. I think the use of a U-channel ramp (with minimum cross-bracing) may not only be very lightweight and non-offensive aesthetically, but also leave enough space open in the middle to still allow use of the screen door-within-a-door - for those nice evening breezes once you've closed up for the night!

Here are a couple quickly sketched, crude closed and open drawings...

[59toaster]

Ok it's a Torsen style axle and it's shot! So hay you needed to caugh up about $500 anyway.

Looking at the picture, as long as there is not a cross member in the way, I think this will be easier then I had first thought. The torsen cross beam is not inline with the centerline of the axle hub. By making a bar that would step up and bolt onto the existing monting flanges you will create a bolt on mount for the air bags to make the coach hight adustable. Add a cross bar forward of the current cross bar about 12 inches as a point to anchor some pivot points. With a drop axle that would have the potential to drop the bottm of the trailer down to 10 inches with a door sill hight of 14. normal coach is around 20 inches.

[overlander63]

Well, here would ba a way to get into the trailer, made of aluminum, of course. It is installed on a Frankenstream currently for sale on Ebay. The ramp should only weigh around 30 pounds or so, at least you would be able to get the chair into the trailer.
Terry

[markdoane]

If you decide to go the air bag route, you could also add an automatic tire inflation system. If you deflate the tires when parked and re-inflate them for travel, you could lower the chassis another 4 or 5 inches. You would need to add some axle skids to keep the tires from deflating totally and crushing the sidewalls.

[nevisstudio]

Hello all…

Hey bredelo…thanks for the sketches..those were great but there are a couple of issues we would have to look at-
-curving c-channel on an arc
-the width of the channel would have to b wide enough to allow front and back tires on

hey toaster…I am not understanding a couple of things-
-u say my axel is bad….y…..i had it looked at in AZ and they said it was ok, then we towed it all the way to OR with no problems…
-have u ever installed drop axel on a trailer….does it put more wear on the tires..

thanks for the feedback and could use more

rich

[Streamsaver]

I agree with toaster about the axle. Our 63 Tradewind has a shot axle. Bad axles cause much more vibration and shock to the trailer. The axle is the suspension system also. This is all explained at Inland Rv's web site.
http://www.inlandrv.com/axles/
it is very informative.
Since the axle needs to be replace how about this idea.
Longer swing arms on the axle. Then have airbags installed like the original shocks. With deeper fender wells you could deflate the bags and lower the trailer very low. The longer arms allow much more travel. The amount you lower it depends on the airbags. Or hydraulics like on low rider trucks.

[59toaster]

Originally posted by nevisstudio
Hello all…

Hey bredelo…thanks for the sketches..those were great but there are a couple of issues we would have to look at-
-curving c-channel on an arc
-the width of the channel would have to b wide enough to allow front and back tires on

hey toaster…I am not understanding a couple of things-
-u say my axel is bad….y…..i had it looked at in AZ and they said it was ok, then we towed it all the way to OR with no problems…
-have u ever installed drop axel on a trailer….does it put more wear on the tires..

thanks for the feedback and could use more

rich

My 59 is drop axle factory. I was hoping yours was also. It would have made this even easier. I guess 62 is the last year of the drop axle.

Check out the info on InlandRV.com about checkign the style axle you coach has. One thing Andy points out is the arms should have a little downward angle. Yours don't have any sitting and I asume that unless your storing items in the coach then it is actually lighter right now then packed travel weight.

Also look at one of your earlier posts about the floor digram you were asking for. I linked a air bag suspension on a 71 Chevy truck that is very simular to what I am suggesting as a way to do this. I also had a link of a drop axle to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

I'll try to get a clear shot of how our 59 is set up and maybe that will clear up what I'm talking about. It's hard to explain but one of those once you see it deals "Ohhh now I get it".

[bredlo]

Originally posted by nevisstudio
Hello all…

Hey bredelo…thanks for the sketches..those were great but there are a couple of issues we would have to look at-
-curving c-channel on an arc
-the width of the channel would have to b wide enough to allow front and back tires on

rich

Hey Rich,

A good place to start then would be to know the total width between the innermost point of the front wheel, and the outermost point of the rear wheel. (I'm assuming that the front wheels are closer together since hips are wider than knees.)

At that point, you'd know the minimum width of the track you'd need. C-channel is what I was thinking of (my imagination tends to use off-the-shelf pieces) but it certainly could be done custom. If custom - I'd think the curve would be even easier to get right, since a proficient metal worker would likely build the bottom of the channels, and then weld on the sides.

Let's get a measurement on that width when you get a chance. I'm not a metalworker by any means, but it would help us further visualize what would be reasonable to create. I think this could be a pretty exciting part of the project, since it would make your trailer exceptionally personal.
Brad

Edit: Just typed in "bending c-channel" into google and got this company:
http://tauringroupusa.com/

On one of their pages they have this neat picture of what looks like bent c-channel:
Enjoy!

[nevisstudio]

ok guys
here is a pic of our ramps we purchased at a metal shop
they were cheap and work great at this incline, so we know if this works good, whatever we design will work better
with this, rich needs a little boost into the airstream, which makes it hard for him to be independent
going down is no problem........
unless he has had a litlle too much to drink (ha ha)

[gotair]

just a thought ...instead of trying to reinvent the wheel what about the wheelchair ramps used everyday on the road ford vans have'm and i've seen them on a dodge caravan... those are small vans that generaly are rated as half ton or less so the isue is not weight... what objections would you have that...

[JanP]

How about a frame mounted under the belly pan full width of the coach. Put your ramps in this frame, pull the ramps out just enough to get the wheel chair on the ramp. place an air bag under the ramp and inflate this pivots the ramp up meet the floor height with a ramp angle that can be negotiated by the wheel chair. I visualize a pan (wheelchair size) that is pivot mounted on a pair of arms so that when the air bag is inflated, the pan tilts as it is raised on the arms that are pivoted about the centerline of the coach. Simple and does not interfere with the door or affect the looks of the interior decor. I am retired Mech P.E. Call me at 503 628 1387 and I will arrange for sketches if you want. Ernie Preedy Hillsboro OR. Right in your neighborhood.

[bredlo]

I really like that one, JanP. It's like the lift system on the back of panel trucks, or the larger UHaul vans. It would come out from under the trailer like a cash register drawer, then lift up to become flush with the trailer floor.

It makes so much more sense than lowering the whole trailer on airbags that I can't believe I didn't think of it before. It may actually require removing a section of belly pan, or raising the whole trailer (giving it a bit of a 4x4 Jeep look,) but in the long run I think it'll be a much cheaper and more sensible option. As long as it stores under the very center of the trailer when fully retracted, it will stay balanced side to side. As for when it's extended, it won't have Rich's full weight on it for extended periods of time.

I'd guess as long as the whole system was bolted, welded or otherwise conntected directly to the frame from underneath, it could be the least intrusive and least visible solution of all, and making nearly no difference aesthetically to the trailer.

Now, it ain't as much fun as my amusement park S-curve ramp, but you can't have it all.

[Katt]

Just my two cents. My boyfriend Brian is in a wheelchair (power) too. One of the main reasons for buying the AS was to have an accessible home away from home too. We were going to use an aluminum folding ramp similar to the one you have. However the design we were looking at is more similar to the ones used for loading quads into trailers, they fold. It seems to me the problem is rise and run longer ramps are needed for easy entry and exit (must be independent). Unfortunatly thats where I see the challange, the longer it is the more convoluted it must be to fold, limited space with the door and existing entry. If any of you watch moster garage an example would be the Mercedes they made wheelchair accessible (didn't quite work well enough). Our van has a kneel system, which is basically a winch that compresses the rear shock, since AS's don't have that system I don't see how it would work.

For us the most important thing right now is being able to go where we want. We are both in our 20's. If I have to fold and unfold a ramp until I figure something else out, it will be ok for a while