'70 Caravanner restoration

[Jeremy9107]

Way back when frame was suspended from gantry, a wind storm during the night destroyed the gantry and allowed frame to drop to ground. Casulties included the hand crank A frame jack. Was going to fix, but decided to upgrade to this F2C 3500# jack. Seemed to have good reviews on Amazon. Ran wires through same opening as electric brake controller (along with wires for auto drain valves) and wil attach directly to trailer battery.

[dbj216]

Good progress 9107: Fitting the waste water tanks under our trailers with drains in, drains out, and vent lines can get a bit complicated.

Electric tongue jacks are worth the money in my view. My son's 69 globetrotter still has its hand crank tongue jack. I think it is a PITA to use, especially with the weight distributing hitch we installed.

David

[Jeremy9107]

Dan. Enjoyed cranking that thing in the past and kids were always impressed by my "muscles". Would have considered replacing but couldn't find one similar that looked sturdy.

[Jeremy9107]

Have a dilemma with space needed to run 3" waste valve pipe from black tank. Thought had planned enough space for this between ladder rails but can't make it work.

As can see in picture, black tank has depression where drain opening is. Plan was to use 90 degree elbow and run street side where waste valve will be. There just isn't enough space between tank and ladder rail for that elbow though.


Would cutting the bottom out of one section of one of the ladder rails to make room for this drain pipe compromise its structure too much?

[steinVT]

You definitely will compromise that cross member. That part of the beam is in tension.

If you cut it out and then attach a steel strap across the bottom, you should get most of the strength back. You could either weld, bolt or buck rivet it on. I've not seen that rail in person, but it looks like it's maybe an inch wide probably made out of 1/8" steel. A 1" x 1/8" strap should do nicely. That's what I would do.

Mark

[dbj216]

stienVT is right on. I had a similar problem. I had to run my gray water drain pipe through a cross channel that was used as part of the old water tank support. I strengthened it by welding a strap to the top and bottom of it. My drain pipe runs through the square hole.

I can verify the cross members do see some load. I had one that had fractured at the attachment point to the frame rail. I butt welded it back together, and then welded a scab piece over that (not shown in photo). I was surprise to find a broken frame cross member. Keep in mind my trailer had a mild case of rear end separation which allows more frame flexing that there ought to be.

I think opening up a cross member for a drain pipe, and then welding a strap to the bottom of it to regain strength is okay.

David

[Jeremy9107]

OK Mark and David, will table idea of cutting cross member for now.

Any suggestions on what can be done? This photo shows shape of tank and the pan it sits in. That pan is exactly the same width as the bay and the tank has no wiggle room in the pan.


Original plan was to 90 elbow out of black tank towards street side and run 3" pipe through the opening shown in photo.


Had welded tabs and had angle iron cut thinking could easily install this. There is exactly 3" of height in that opening. Didn't take into account that 3" pipe is actually 3.5" OD. So it will hang lower than frame and belly skin will be altered.

-Dumb thought but probably even worse to consider cutting partial hole in side rail of frame.
-Thought about welding some iron on to extend side rails lower (something like you did David only on the side instead of the ladder rail)

[steinVT]

Sorry Jeremy, I'm having a hard time visualizing exactly what you are trying to do.

If cutting the cross frame rail will solve your problem, I would do that. If you don't have access to a welder, just use a couple of grade 5 bolts on either side of the patch.

Mark

[rugjenkins]

Jeremy,

David's plan will work. Cut only what you need the weld up a reinforcement. Adjust you belly pan in that area. If you have to make a small aluminum box to cover I think it will still look great. Rebuilding these at times will require new upgrades and new solutions. I'd rather have bigger tanks without a completely flat bellypan any day. All my tanks extended below the frame rails. Each a different size. My belly pan is not flat anymore and the drain for the tanks extends below the belly pan too. No big deal for me. I believe the new airstreams do the same now. I'd consider yours an improvement over the original. And would welcome the drain extension, small as it will be. Not sure most will ever notice. Rock on.[emoji106][emoji1] it's looking amazing

[dbj216]

Hi: I visited a fellow Airstreamer who has a very, very nicely renovated 70 Caravanner rear bath. He is a class A craftsman with all the skills and tools. Impressive guy. His trailer is a "bumper storage" rear drain through the frame rail like my Overlander. The last foot of our trailer's frames does nothing but carry the rear bumper, so a 4" hole in it is no sweat. He has some rotted floor under the bath fixtures and some frame droop. We dropped the tank pan and the black tank last Tuesday. He is thinking about a gray tank install "while he is at it". You know the rest of the story. How to drain it. See photo of his trailer below (I may have posted it once in your thread early on.)

So I mention this thinking you can rig the drain manifold for your black tank just below the frame rail and after the axle mounting plate in that area that you planned. Yep, you will have ABS plastic pipe hanging below the the 8" of frame steel (5" frame rail, 3" skid rail). I think you can fabricate adequate belly aluminum to cover it up.

Another thought is a rubber flex coupling. I use one in the Overlander drain manifold, see photo. If it was in the area under the frame rail, it might very well compress that 1/2", becoming oval, not round, and allow the belly aluminum to lay flat. These rubber couplings are designed to take some "mismatch" in alignment of the two pipes you are connecting. I do not know about different lengths of these couplings.

I suspect others will have better ideas...

David

[rugjenkins]

Jeremy

David may be on to something here. If you have space get a rubber flex coupling. It should do the trick. It should compress the 1/2 in the cross member and still connect to the rest of the pipes

[Jeremy9107]

steinVT. hopefully these pics will help. plan was to use 90 street elbow out of the black tank and run towards street side of trailer.


had cut section of skid rail from rear of trailer and welded it at this location to use as support for angle iron that holds tank pan box.


that skid plate is 3" in height. tank drain pipe was to go through that, but didn't account for its OD.


so was wondering if could cut into frame rail to make bigger opening that was 1/2" higher up so drain pipe didn't hang below skid plate. would have to cut through the flange (not sure if correct terminology...it has 1.5" extending inward on top and bottom) of the frame rail though.

David. like the idea of rubber coupling. going to measure this out tomorrow and see if can make it work. only bummer is had purchased threaded 3" aluminum pipe nipples that were going to attach to the ABS drain pipe before it exited the frame rail. thought it would be cool look to have aluminum on the visible side.

Will consider rugjenkins idea too and allow all to hang lower and just mold belly skin around it.

Really appreciate the suggestions. Had run out of ideas and now am reinvigorated.

[Jeremy9107]

Did manage to fill fresh water tank and test for leaks. Had very small trickle from fill fitting, but otherwise all water tight. Applied some teflon to fitting and no further leak.

Drained tank via solenoid valve. Took 90 minutes to drain completely. Pumped about that as for past 5 years had a busted hand operated drain valve so could only drain via pumping water out. Don't believe it ever emptied completely that way.


A bit nervous about location of sensors. This tank had a very odd shape. Kind of like the world of Minecraft. So not many edges flush from top to bottom. Ideally, should place sensors on same surface but had to place around a corner. Manufacturer said can do this but water is supposed to be on the inside bend of corner. This is on outside. Will see how it works.


Recall it was very difficult getting wood support out from under tank. It was just as difficult getting back in. Nailed some bubble foil insulation to help it slide easier. The belly skin was under this wood within its support rails but thinking will rivet to outside instead.

[steinVT]

Jeremy, that does help a lot. That is not all what I thought was the problem.

David's idea of the rubber coupling is a good one. Or as rugjenkins said a small box or bump out work work fine. I had to add quite a "power bulge" to the belly pan to get around the auto-valve. I used a shot bag and plastic hammer.

Just thought of another possibility, ABS is mold-able with heat. How about you "ovalize" a section of pipe? To soften it without melting it you can dip it into boiling water.

[rugjenkins]

To mold the abs plastic you can use a heat gun also. I like the boiling water method better. I had to use the heat gun ovalize my vent pipes that I put inside the wall between exterior and interior skins.

[rmkrum]

In a serious pinch I managed to use a gas stove burner to soften a piece of ABS to bend it to fit in a bad spot. Same trick works with PVC. Just need to keep it moving constantly so as not to ‘toast’ it excessively. Work slow and carefully to get it just hot enough to do what you need to do. And use tools. Bare hands or leather gloves are not a good idea. Don’t ask why I know this.

[Jeremy9107]

Reminded about how great this forum is and how helpful you all are. Thanks. Thought was going to have to start over and move the tank, but now have several options.

Now that drain pipe is figured out, need to think about auto drain valve (another oversight). It will fit to street elbow that exits tank.


Want to place this within belly as opposed to oustide. Dimensions are 10" x 5" x 4.5". Height of bay that tank sits in is 7.75". Believe there to be 2 options.

1) place vertically and cut hole in floor to allow space for it to fit and operate.
2) place horizontally opening towards rear.

If go with option 2, it would be here :



Would it be feasible to cut a section of the bottom of the ladder rail out to make space? Then weld something like David did for his drain pipe? It would be slightly different as am trying to expand the entire openig.

[dbj216]

The frame cross members Airstream uses are light weight and not the strongest joist in the book. I believe you can cut into the oval opening of the joist to make room for your valve, and then bridge around the valve with welded steel. I recommend your bridge is not just welded on the bottom, but the end pieces run up the joist on both sides. The bottom piece can be a 1x1 angle iron giving the bridge some strength. The angle leg would be up and not in the way of the belly aluminum.

I hope others reply and give this idea a thorough review; especially steinVT.

David

[steinVT]

I agree with David. You might even get away with welding in a 3/16" or 1/4" thick bar shaped like this: ------------\________/------------.
That would minimize any impact of belly pan.

Nice CAD work, don't you think?

[Jeremy9107]

steinVT. trying to mimic your CAD work to better understand. are you agreeing to span entire width of ladder rail?

_______________________
[______l___ ___l________] = ladder rail (middle section is oval cut out)
_______l_______l________ = flat bar or angle iron with scrap welded below oval cut out