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Old 06-09-2021, 11:26 AM   #1
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Dinette for two teens?

Hi all,

We are looking at a 22FB Caravel to use on week long trips for a family of four (One trip is three weeks this August). We don't intend to stay in the trailer all nights, but do want the girls to be comfortable. One is 5'4" and the other is 5'7". Are the dinettes comfortable for two to sleep comfortably? Given our tow vehicle we are limited by tongue weight which limits are options with Airstream to the 22FB or smaller. Any guidance is appreciated.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:44 AM   #2
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I doubt it. My kids lasted until the novelty wore off, then they were crowded and one slept on the floor thereafter.
After all, they are teens.
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:15 PM   #3
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The 22í caravel actually sleeps 3 comfortably...not 4. That dinette is a wide twin or a very narrow double at best. Airstream exaggerates the sleeping numbers just like all of the tent manufacturers. I think itís all based on if you are sleeping standing up. We had a 2020 Int. 25FB which we used for a 1 & 2 month long trip. We tried to get our 9 & 5 yr old children to share the dinette which turned out to be too narrow for both. We then attempted sharing the lounge, then ended up with one on each...my kids are both tiny. In the 22í, one will be sleeping on the floor. Also, within 4 days my 9 yr old was complaining about discomfort sleeping on the dinette cushions. We purchased two 3Ē thick memory foam toppers from BB&B which helped solve that. Personally, you are going to need at least a 25í with a lounge. We now have a 30í bunk.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:21 AM   #4
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Thank you - this is what I was afraid of.

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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
I doubt it. My kids lasted until the novelty wore off, then they were crowded and one slept on the floor thereafter.
After all, they are teens.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:27 AM   #5
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Thank you.

I really want to avoid a large TT for a few reasons (e.g. not intending to be full time , no interest in full size pickups or oversized SUV's). It's frustrating that Airstream has the quality and design we are looking for, but are intended for couples unless choosing the 30' bunk. Back to the drawing board.


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Originally Posted by s1000pre View Post
The 22í caravel actually sleeps 3 comfortably...not 4. That dinette is a wide twin or a very narrow double at best. Airstream exaggerates the sleeping numbers just like all of the tent manufacturers. I think itís all based on if you are sleeping standing up. We had a 2020 Int. 25FB which we used for a 1 & 2 month long trip. We tried to get our 9 & 5 yr old children to share the dinette which turned out to be too narrow for both. We then attempted sharing the lounge, then ended up with one on each...my kids are both tiny. In the 22í, one will be sleeping on the floor. Also, within 4 days my 9 yr old was complaining about discomfort sleeping on the dinette cushions. We purchased two 3Ē thick memory foam toppers from BB&B which helped solve that. Personally, you are going to need at least a 25í with a lounge. We now have a 30í bunk.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:06 AM   #6
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I agree with the comments above. The dinette bed is really a twin.

Have you considered the 23CB Bunk model?
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:28 PM   #7
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Flying Cloud line? If so, I have not. I was attempting to stay around 60K list price. However, the hitch weight for the FC23CB Bunk will likely exceed 750 pounds when loaded as Airstream specs say it's 654 with tanks and batteries empty. Our TV has a rating of 7,200 pounds for towing, but limited to 552 on the tongue. It's an odd combination and didn't realize it until we took delivery. I assumed (yes, I know...) that 7,200 trailer weight would provide 720 pound tongue limit. Payload for the TV is 1800 pounds. The tongue limit is infuriating.

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I agree with the comments above. The dinette bed is really a twin.

Have you considered the 23CB Bunk model?
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:20 PM   #8
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Have you checked your tow vehicle specs with and without a weight distribution hitch? I assume you have a small or mid sized SUV, so I'm not sure what limitations you may have with weight distribution hitches.

For example, my GMC Denali 1500 has a maximum tongue weight of 700 lbs. on the ball, but it increases to 1,250 lbs. when using a weight distribution hitch.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:34 PM   #9
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It's a 2020 X5. I have spent several months speaking with BMW as the trailer rating and tongue rating are not making sense. They are staying firm on the numbers and do not permit the use of weight distribution hitches. CanAm said they haven't seen any issues with the X5 towing with 750 or so tongue weight. My hesitation is staying legal. I may be overthinking this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
Have you checked your tow vehicle specs with and without a weight distribution hitch? I assume you have a small or mid sized SUV, so I'm not sure what limitations you may have with weight distribution hitches.

For example, my GMC Denali 1500 has a maximum tongue weight of 700 lbs. on the ball, but it increases to 1,250 lbs. when using a weight distribution hitch.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereItsAt View Post
Flying Cloud line? If so, I have not. I was attempting to stay around 60K list price. However, the hitch weight for the FC23CB Bunk will likely exceed 750 pounds when loaded as Airstream specs say it's 654 with tanks and batteries empty. Our TV has a rating of 7,200 pounds for towing, but limited to 552 on the tongue. It's an odd combination and didn't realize it until we took delivery. I assumed (yes, I know...) that 7,200 trailer weight would provide 720 pound tongue limit. Payload for the TV is 1800 pounds. The tongue limit is infuriating.
My Old Cayenne S was a great tow vehicle, it pulled my 6,700lb. boat as if it weighed half that. Anyway, you are correct.

BMW X5 (E70) Trailer Hitch Guidelines and Cautions Page 1 of 2
These Guideline Sheets should be left in the vehicle (for customer reference) after installation of the Trailer Hitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------
 The BMW X5 Trailer Hitch is rated Class 3 (gross trailer weight 6000 lbs., maximum
tongue weight 600 lbs.). Never exceed these specifications. This rating is based on a standard equipped vehicle with driver. Additional passengers and/or cargo will reduce maximum vehicle/trailer ratings.
 Do not exceed gross vehicle weight or front/rear axel weights as specified in the vehicles Owners Manual and displayed on the Safety Certification Label located on the drivers door jam.
 Do not use weight distribution equipment.[/b]
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereItsAt View Post
It's a 2020 X5. I have spent several months speaking with BMW as the trailer rating and tongue rating are not making sense. They are staying firm on the numbers and do not permit the use of weight distribution hitches. CanAm said they haven't seen any issues with the X5 towing with 750 or so tongue weight. My hesitation is staying legal. I may be overthinking this.
Makes sense. I understand your concerns. I don't know enough about towing an Airstream with an SUV to give you any meaningful input. The limit that causes me the most concern for my tow vehicle is cargo & occupant capacity.

As a data point, my 23FB when loaded has a tongue weight around 535 lbs. according to my Sherline scale. I'm headed up into the mountains to camp and fly fish this weekend, and I'll be rolling on the heavy side. I'll have a full fresh water tank, my generator in the truck bed, a cooler full of ice, bottled water and beer, etc. I'm thinking about stopping at the CAT Scale on my way out of town to get another measurement.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:04 PM   #12
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The G05 2019 and beyond X5's with the factory tow package is rated at 7,200 and 550 on the tongue. They increased the trailer max and decreased the tongue max and state not to use a WD hitch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s1000pre View Post
My Old Cayenne S was a great tow vehicle, it pulled my 6,700lb. boat as if it weighed half that. Anyway, you are correct.

BMW X5 (E70) Trailer Hitch Guidelines and Cautions Page 1 of 2
These Guideline Sheets should be left in the vehicle (for customer reference) after installation of the Trailer Hitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------
 The BMW X5 Trailer Hitch is rated Class 3 (gross trailer weight 6000 lbs., maximum
tongue weight 600 lbs.). Never exceed these specifications. This rating is based on a standard equipped vehicle with driver. Additional passengers and/or cargo will reduce maximum vehicle/trailer ratings.
 Do not exceed gross vehicle weight or front/rear axel weights as specified in the vehicles Owners Manual and displayed on the Safety Certification Label located on the drivers door jam.
 Do not use weight distribution equipment.[/b]
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:11 PM   #13
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Payload is 1800 pounds due to the air suspension for our particular X5. If your tongue weight for the FC23FB is 535lbs, I'm in. If you don't mind, I would be grateful if you can get the setup scaled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
Makes sense. I understand your concerns. I don't know enough about towing an Airstream with an SUV to give you any meaningful input. The limit that causes me the most concern for my tow vehicle is cargo & occupant capacity.

As a data point, my 23FB when loaded has a tongue weight around 535 lbs. according to my Sherline scale. I'm headed up into the mountains to camp and fly fish this weekend, and I'll be rolling on the heavy side. I'll have a full fresh water tank, my generator in the truck bed, a cooler full of ice, bottled water and beer, etc. I'm thinking about stopping at the CAT Scale on my way out of town to get another measurement.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:19 PM   #14
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I’ve had it on the CAT scale, and I’ve used a Sherline scale for tongue weight.

The first pass is my truck alone. You can see front and rear axle weights. The second pass is my truck and trailer without weight distribution. The third pass is my truck and trailer with weight distribution. The final image is my tongue weight measured by the Sherline scale.

My apologies if the order of the pics got jumbled in the upload. In this particular weight measurement, the tongue weight was closer to 525 lbs.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:04 AM   #15
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The tongue weight on your trailer is perfect for us. Thank you. Iíll start hunting for the 23CB Bunk.

Again, very gracious of you - Thank you.

Quote:
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Iíve had it on the CAT scale, and Iíve used a Sherline scale for tongue weight.
Ö
My apologies if the order of the pics got jumbled in the upload. In this particular weight measurement, the tongue weight was closer to 525 lbs.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:12 AM   #16
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Assuming that I read those CAT tickets correctly, I would probably trust the CAT #s more than the Sherline, if I were calculating my tongue weight.
Of course... this may just be opening a can of gummy worms. Personally, I would think of that tonge weight as 620#. FWIW
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoublTrouble View Post
Assuming that I read those CAT tickets correctly, I would probably trust the CAT #s more than the Sherline, if I were calculating my tongue weight.
Of course... this may just be opening a can of gummy worms. Personally, I would think of that tonge weight as 620#. FWIW
Thatís certainly the conclusion from the CAT scales. Not sure why thereís such a discrepancy between the two weights. Maybe the added weight of the weight distribution hitch? I would expect that to show up more as cargo weight than tongue weight.
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:25 AM   #18
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yes, perhaps, but "payload" nonetheless.
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:33 AM   #19
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Many a thread/debate on this subject. I also notice that after the WD is "engaged" 60# appears to go back to the trailer. That 10% or so, is what I see on our rig and others frequently too.
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