Nest floor adhesive issue

[Inspired_MJ]

Just got the Nest back from the dealer down in Scottsdale Arizona. Minor repairs (step arm bolt and led awning strip light). Today went out to add my mod side splash to the galley and notice bubbling in the flooring.

After inspecting further I noticed the top floor plate is not stapled and both floors have the problem (bottom floor plate slightly). More on the top floor in the seating area in more then one spot. No water issues and moisture tested at 2%. Examining the adhesive in the edge that was also lifted in the compartment the adhesive looks very close to 3M commercial grade rolled. Still tac I add the good old heat and roller and no go. (Added flat board and weight for 1hr - no good). It is obvious this is an issue in extreme heat.

As you can imagine not thrilled with this and I really don't think AS is going to rip out everything to correct this matter and would just do a standard vinyl repair to those areas. Obviously I can see this being an on going issue.

Therefore, anyone's thoughts on an adhesive for injection application would be appriciated?

Not interested in an old school slicing option. Hens the reason I am not taking it in. I will just get more annoyed if they mess it up. (I had to fix the clip end of the led strip they just did. Not my first time of having to go back over warranty repair items. It is always a hit and miss with good techs)

Thank you in advance for your feedback and time!

[BeSerious]

You probably already know this, but maybe it will help others.

While reinstalling the pedestal table base, I learned a lot about the NEST’s construction.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...se-198667.html

The lower floor level (i.e. the entrance, galley, etc.) extends under all the cabinets and seating and is covered with the same vinyl flooring throughout. The raised dinette floor and vinyl flooring extends several inches under the seating. So replacing/repairing the flooring is a non-trivial project which requires removing a lot of cabinetry/seating OR a seam at the cabinets/seating.

As a result, we added a long floor runner to protect the vinyl flooring from damage.

BeSerious

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by Inspired_MJ

Just got the Nest back from the dealer down in Scottsdale Arizona. Minor repairs (step arm bolt and led awning strip light). Today went out to add my mod side splash to the galley and notice bubbling in the flooring.

After inspecting further I noticed the top floor plate is not stapled and both floors have the problem (bottom floor plate slightly). More on the top floor in the seating area in more then one spot. No water issues and moisture tested at 2%. Examining the adhesive in the edge that was also lifted in the compartment the adhesive looks very close to 3M commercial grade rolled. Still tac I add the good old heat and roller and no go. (Added flat board and weight for 1hr - no good). It is obvious this is an issue in extreme heat.

As you can imagine not thrilled with this and I really don't think AS is going to rip out everything to correct this matter and would just do a standard vinyl repair to those areas. Obviously I can see this being an on going issue.

Therefore, anyone's thoughts on an adhesive for injection application would be appriciated?

Not interested in an old school slicing option. Hens the reason I am not taking it in. I will just get more annoyed if they mess it up. (I had to fix the clip end of the led strip they just did. Not my first time of having to go back over warranty repair items. It is always a hit and miss with good techs)

Thank you in advance for your feedback and time!

Hi Inspired_MJ,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issue you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information, email and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can learn more and share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

Thank you.*

[Inspired_MJ]

Originally Posted by AirstreamInc

Hi Inspired_MJ,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issue you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information, email and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can learn more and share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

Thank you.*

Would love to can you post an email address because I get the following error when trying to send message through this (sorry): "Due to abuse by spammers, new members are not allowed to send links in their private messages until they have become trusted members." The other option would be a direct number.

Thank you in advance for your time and assistance. Happy to send photos and do a video walk through if you like for your QC team.

[Inspired_MJ]

Originally Posted by BeSerious

You probably already know this, but maybe it will help others.

While reinstalling the pedestal table base, I learned a lot about the NEST’s construction.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...se-198667.html

The lower floor level (i.e. the entrance, galley, etc.) extends under all the cabinets and seating and is covered with the same vinyl flooring throughout. The raised dinette floor and vinyl flooring extends several inches under the seating. So replacing/repairing the flooring is a non-trivial project which requires removing a lot of cabinetry/seating OR a seam at the cabinets/seating.

As a result, we added a long floor runner to protect the vinyl flooring from damage.

BeSerious

Thank you for the heads up and info, much appreciated. Totally agree with your tips.

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by Inspired_MJ

Would love to can you post an email address because I get the following error when trying to send message through this (sorry): "Due to abuse by spammers, new members are not allowed to send links in their private messages until they have become trusted members." The other option would be a direct number.

Thank you in advance for your time and assistance. Happy to send photos and do a video walk through if you like for your QC team.

Please send to Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customersupport@airstream.com

Thank you.*

[prairieschooner]

Amazing! With the respect for quality that Airstream had gained over the years for the company to go down this path, sad!!


Considering that Wally would try hard to use what would have been the best materials available and give a Lifetime Warranty. The company is NOT following his lead....happy to have what we have.

[Inspired_MJ]

Originally Posted by AirstreamInc

Please send to Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customersupport@airstream.com

Thank you.*

Spoke with JPuckett this morning and sent him the photos and info. Thanks again for the help.

[Inspired_MJ]

Updated --- Do Not go with my brain fart! Here is why!

(AS did not get back to me today but maybe they will come back this week with a solution.)

While I was waiting (somewhat), I went all around town talking to everyone I knew and could find on the issue. Then I run into a 25+ year floor guy who is also a 20+ year RV owner, along with the owner of the store who dose noting but sell flooring tools and supplies to our local floor guys. Finally, some people that know their stuff. The floor guys say’s STOP WHAT YOUR DOING and explains all the following to me….

1. Apparently, this is a well know issues and is a problem throughout the industry of RV’s and Airstream is no exception. (I did a search when I got home and sure enough this is a hot topic (punt intended)).

2. He stated you should never ever use a permanent bond adhesive on the floor in a RV as it can cause damage to subfloor when needing to remove. Hen’s is why floors are floated with a perimeter tack bond or staples and that further causes issues he explains.

3. All vinyl sheets need to expand and contract. (That I knew)

4. Do not do a floating interlock floor either and stay off YouTube…. (LOL…check)

I showed him the photos and he goes on with this statement starting out with, this is why flooring companies will not do RV’s and if a floor guy in his pickup comes with adhesive understand your going to have even further issues down the road and more than likely that guy will be out a business when it happens….

5. In a home (“controlled environment”) suitable for temperatures 60-85F. When you add the additional variances and humidity to the mix the product will expand and contract more than normal.

6. When the product is laid at the factories it is in a controlled environment (Room temperature) therefore you will see this happen when temperatures reach over 85. It might be 85 outside but the inside temperature of the unit can exceed that. So even if the unit is cooled down now you have the issue where can the air escape.

7. When the temperature drops below then if you have a bond that is not flexible this is where you see cracking.

8. It is highly important to follow manufacture specs, as they have tested the product for their long warranty period. However, if not installed per their specs it voids the warranty.

9. Most floor manufacturers will have requirements for install under cabinets and more times than not a 2’ adhesive maybe needed (mind you this is a controlled environment not a RV).

10. I was told to go pull any manufacturer flooring specs and you will see each are different there is not a one size fits all and if not installed correctly it voids any warranty. Also, good luck finding any that will clearly provide instruction for uncontrolled environments. They claim it will uphold to lower and high temperatures but do not say it will under what conditions of install. (I did and I was shock at the differences and lack of detail on uncontrolled environments).

So, I asked him the ultimate question what I should do then….

He said, you should have the manufacture rip it all out and do it right base on the flooring manufacturers specifications and have them lay into their flooring manufacturers if not specified and request the flooring spec sheets.

Further stating if you notice they give you all the other manufacturer sheets with your rig, but he has yet to see one included for the flooring insulation spec sheet. (My mouth dropped open to the floor and the deer in the headlight look came on. I came back home and went through the documents and sure enough no spec sheet, WOW! That last statement said a lot.)

I guess I will get a copy of the spec sheet first and go from their and see what AS has to say. Not looking to rip it all out because everyone knows you asking for more work down the road.

Learn something new every day no matter how old you get. I will for sure be using this floor guy for all my future flooring needs.

I can see how this is has been a long-time issue. What flooring manufacture wants to back up a uncontrolled environment install, make sense if you think about it.

Thought this was very good info and insightful to share. So next time you buy a rig or buy flooring for your rig ask to see the floor spec sheet and look for uncontrolled environment install info and cross verify.

[BayouBiker]

Great summary. I have not had an issue with our flooring yet and I have not had occasion to do any research like you have. I very vaguely understood floor expansion and contraction was an issue given the short distances and fixed cabinetry, but your details of the issue and how it is addressed is fantastic.

It sounds like the flooring expert suspects the floor was not installed correctly, but maybe I got the wrong impression. If it was not installed correctly, what in the experts opinion, was not done properly? Was it improper adhesive? or not allowing he edges to expand out?

I wonder, assuming the floor was correctly installed but this happened anyway. did the expert address that situation?

[Inspired_MJ]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

It sounds like the flooring expert suspects the floor was not installed correctly, but maybe I got the wrong impression. If it was not installed correctly, what in the experts opinion, was not done properly? Was it improper adhesive? or not allowing he edges to expand out?

I wonder, assuming the floor was correctly installed but this happened anyway. did the expert address that situation?

No, I believe he was being facetious because of it being a new unit. He was making the point that the RV industry has this problem no matter what and going under a cabinet does not help the exact matter BUT THERE IS A GOOD REASON along with other matters. The idea of doing a full sheet under the cabinets from a RV manufacturer point is to protect the sub-floor from damage above all else and we should want the same thing (pipes in a home are run through a wall not over a floor system). Then I had this question, I am sorry but would coating the sub-floor separate make more sense? Then I thought about this dumb question again and said, yes but the sub-floor dose the same and any material added would have the same issue (not sure).

In the summery post #9 point 2 (I should have further explained, I was just trying to keep it short why my initial idea was not a good idea). I guess the material itself has a basic expansion and contraction point. However, in vinyl a sheet it may have different variances throughout out a role (I understand this is also as an issue with different runs of other materials as well). This is why they recommend allowing a piece to lay in a space for 24 hrs before trimming (in a house). Then when you add in the array of variance changes in an uncontrolled environment. Humidity, 32F- to 120F+, air circulation, pressure changes, etc. It is very difficult to determine the expansion/contraction needed for that piece. Totally make sense from a manufacture point and I can understand how cost and inflation would go up and a business would not last long because people want things cheap (need to be competitive).

For the RV industry you need the product to stay in place however how do you get a product to stay in place, float and breath at the same time and deal with moisture, humidity, etc.. How do you solve for all these variables?

As soon as I get the spec sheet, I was going to call him ask him if we consider at least consulting on it and calling the flooring manufacture for their recommendations as well before I do anything.

I love my Nest! Airstream did the floor right IMHO there was just trad offs and they made the right call. I guess, I am just one of the lucky ones that got that special section of the role? Not their fault. It is just how do you really solve for this to were both of us will be satisfied, probably why I have not received any information back yet and why I did not get the spec sheet I requested today. I am very grateful to have found someone that said wait a minute and educated me.

Both him and BeSeriours post #2 saved me a lot of future headaches and I am forever grateful! Maybe after speaking with the floor manufacture and floor guy I might just do an overlay with a felt back for added protection. First is how to get the trapped air out and getting it sealed properly and will that work? So hopefully AS will get back to me soon and get me the specs and we can start working toward a solution.

I will be sure to post updates while we work through this and add any other helpful information I learn along the way.

[jenorth]

Hello Inspired_MJ, I just bought a used 2020 Nest and have noticed the same bubbling/rippling -- not only on the vinyl floor but also on the MDF and the paper laminate on my storage facades.

AS told me I simply "need to have both replaced" and of course, outside of warranty.

Did you have any luck finding a solution? Can you tell me if it's gotten worse or if you found ways to prevent further damage? Not terribly excited to have all the finishing materials peeling off my $40K+ trailer.

[Tamarack]

Originally Posted by Jen Orth

Hello Inspired_MJ, I just bought a used 2020 Nest and have noticed the same bubbling/rippling -- not only on the vinyl floor but also on the MDF and the paper laminate on my storage facades.

AS told me I simply "need to have both replaced" and of course, outside of warranty.

Did you have any luck finding a solution? Can you tell me if it's gotten worse or if you found ways to prevent further damage? Not terribly excited to have all the finishing materials peeling off my $40K+ trailer.

I haven't had this problem with ours, but I saw some posts and information on the Nest Facebook group. You might take a look there - https://www.facebook.com/groups/372975559973384

[jenorth]

Originally Posted by Tamarack

I haven't had this problem with ours, but I saw some posts and information on the Nest Facebook group. You might take a look there - https://www.facebook.com/groups/372975559973384

Thank you!