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Old 10-21-2017, 10:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by guskmg View Post
A couple of "rules of thumb" for hitching. Choose spring bars that require about 5" (five inches) of spring bar bend to cause the hitch weight to move about a third of the weight to the front axle and a third to the rear axle of the TV. Leaving a third to be distributed to the TT axles. This is about the same bar weight specs as the hitch weight loaded ready to travel. This combination will give you a good spring action to relieve road pounding on the front of the TT. In 47 years of travel I have only seen one spring bar fail from overload. On my rig, I have used the Hensley 1,400# bars with a hitch weight as high as 1,750# to Alaska and back with no bar problems. Early on, I had problems with the TV hitch receiver twisting (flexing) too much when the bars were draw up. A Curt Class V took care of that problem. That was a problem with GM for a while. It has been corrected now GM says.
guskmg
A third of what weight?

With a level TV & AS we move 660# to the frt axle.

And 160# to the AS axles.

The WD bars move nothing to the TV rear axle.

Bob
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:28 AM   #22
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Thanks; one just about 45 minutes up the road from us so I'll have to try it out!
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:16 AM   #23
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Pardon my interruption, we're 9mos into our new FC25 so I'm still a newbie, wading through all the hitch WD/ trailer sway debates and find this thread, a similar setup to ours in that our tongue wt. too, about 900 lbs. our TV, an F150 w/tow pkg. and our dealer set us up with a Blueox, 1500 lb. bars. I haven't been to the scales but as is, everything is level, I don't have any sway to speak of BUT I do get noticeable bucking or bounce at the hitch going over bridges, pavement dips, etc. Is that somewhat common/ normal? Might the bars be too tight? Or too stiff? Or is it time to do the scales? The only thing I've tried was a link less tension on the bars but that didn't feel any better. Thanks in advance...
RF
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:09 AM   #24
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Kind'a guessing......

......but. Without more detailed weight info.

You should be able to transfer the weight needed with 800-1000lb bars.


Assuming....your tires are properly inflated, TV shocks are good, trailer & TV are dead level when hitched and we're discounting the harmonic road conditions that can cause proposing.

Sweet Streams

Bob
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:28 AM   #25
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Well, it's probably time to go to the scales & see what's what..
I was thinking 1500 lb bars might be too much, the ball is on the bottom hole & the bars flexed pretty hard. Maybe raising the ball a notch & using a lighter bar..
It's all part of the adventure..
Thanks!
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:28 AM   #26
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Hi

Ok, you *can* drop tongue weight by putting the gold bar collection in the rear bumper. That's not a great idea for a couple of reasons. One of them is sway. The closer the weight is to the front of the trailer, the less tendency there is to sway.

The same thing is true of weight that is high up in the trailer. The lower the weight (lower center of gravity) the more stable the trailer will be. One of the most basic differences you see between an AS and "others" is they are a lot lower to the ground.

What you *can* do is watch how you load things into the various storage compartments in the trailer. Heavy stuff low, light stuff high is a really good idea. Heavy stuff in the rear of the trailer is not a good idea. You don't always have a choice. When you do, think about weight as you store stuff.

=====

Trailer stability is not a single axis sort of thing. Sway gets talked about as if it's a single "death spiral" event isolated from everything else. That's not really how it works. Trailers can be unstable in a lot of ways and each of them can create issues. Bad roads / high winds (welcome to PA, pavement ends ..) will accentuate stability issues.

If you want to see sway, watch the trailer in front of you. I guarantee you won't have to watch for long to see it sway a bit. For those into science experiments, recruit a chase car and some walkie talkies. Maybe even toss in a camera. At least around here you will not have to go very long before they record you having a bit of sway.

The big issue is to understand what is going on and to react properly to it. Often this is a matter of reducing the speed you choose to drive at. In specific cases a combination of acceleration and trailer brakes is the answer. Knowing what and when takes some practice. Fortunately it's not a death spiral unless you ignore it ....

Step one: Learn where the trailer brake actuator is on your TV. Learn how to find it without looking at what you are doing. Give it a *gentle* squeeze and see what happens. Repeat this (when it's safe to do) a few times over a few days to build confidence in the process. For added credit, watch the 18 wheelers for a while, after a bit you will figure out what it looks like when they are doing the same thing ....

Bob
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rfriebele View Post
Pardon my interruption, we're 9mos into our new FC25 so I'm still a newbie, wading through all the hitch WD/ trailer sway debates and find this thread, a similar setup to ours in that our tongue wt. too, about 900 lbs. our TV, an F150 w/tow pkg. and our dealer set us up with a Blueox, 1500 lb. bars. I haven't been to the scales but as is, everything is level, I don't have any sway to speak of BUT I do get noticeable bucking or bounce at the hitch going over bridges, pavement dips, etc. Is that somewhat common/ normal? Might the bars be too tight? Or too stiff? Or is it time to do the scales? The only thing I've tried was a link less tension on the bars but that didn't feel any better. Thanks in advance...
RF
I think 1500 lb bars for a Blue OX and a 25 Flying Cloud is a bit much. My 26U has a scaled tongue weight of 940 lb loaded for travel (full propane, full fresh, empty waste) I selected 1000-lb bars per Blue Ox's recommendation, their bar sizes are "Up to X" (e.g. up to 750 lb, use the 750 lb bars... between 750 and 1000, use the 1000-lb bars, etc.) Their rep explained that their sway control relies on having quite a bit of deflection on the bars to start with.

Since I'm close to the 1000-lb rating and my truck isn't sprung like a buckboard, I found that one link up from the "starting point" recommendation works well for me (also at Blue Ox's recommendation). That's putting the 10th link from the loose end into the notch before rotating the latches. It brings the truck's front axle back to within 20 lb of unladen weight and behaves well going down the road.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:40 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
I think 1500 lb bars for a Blue OX and a 25 Flying Cloud is a bit much. My 26U has a scaled tongue weight of 940 lb loaded for travel (full propane, full fresh, empty waste) I selected 1000-lb bars per Blue Ox's recommendation, their bar sizes are "Up to X" (e.g. up to 750 lb, use the 750 lb bars... between 750 and 1000, use the 1000-lb bars, etc.) Their rep explained that their sway control relies on having quite a bit of deflection on the bars to start with.

Since I'm close to the 1000-lb rating and my truck isn't sprung like a buckboard, I found that one link up from the "starting point" recommendation works well for me (also at Blue Ox's recommendation). That's putting the 10th link from the loose end into the notch before rotating the latches. It brings the truck's front axle back to within 20 lb of unladen weight and behaves well going down the road.
Thanks...i might have neglected to say my concern is not sway. I've learned the ins & outs of that with our first trailer, especially the loading aspects. That said, as I'm set up now, there's really no sway at all BUT, I don't want to create it by trying to reduce this bouncy bounce and I like your thoughts on a lighter bar..In retrospect, I think maybe our dealer set us up for 'overkill' maybe anticipating we'd load the truck bed with generator, etc. which I've never done. My initial hypothesis was too much weight transfer to the front of the TV and after weeks of reading on this subject, I see the importance of weighing everything. I live 4 miles from a CAT Scales so, no more procrastinating!
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:08 PM   #29
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We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with factory solar (52 lb. Lifeline batteries). The tongue weight is 1252 lbs. loaded for a three week trip and with an Andersen hitch (less than 60 lbs.), and about 75% propane and 50% water. Add about 7 lbs. for the missing propane. Add 150 lbs. for the missing water, but most of that would be on the axles.

My first TV was a 2013 F-150: Steer GAWR 3,900, Drive GAWR 4,050, GVWR 7,700, Max Trailer WR 11,300, GCWR 16,900, and Cargo WR 2,000. I know these numbers don’t exactly “add up”, but they are what Ford quoted.

My first hitch was an Andersen that I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. Certified scale weights are shown here:

Unhitched: Steer 3,500, Drive 3,340
Andersen Hitch: Steer 3,120, Drive 4,900, Trailer 5,600
Blue Ox Hitch, 1,500 lb. bars, zero links showing: Steer 3,500, Drive 4,140, Trailer 5,860

As can be seen the drive axle was over loaded with either hitch. I could have lived with 100 lbs. over with the Blue Ox however the trailer ride was apparently smooth with the Andersen but I think the Blue Ox setup would have shaken it apart.

The Ford was a great truck but there just wasn’t enough of it. I traded for a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax and reinstalled my Andersen hitch. Nothing is over loaded.

We have been to Alaska and back and throughout Newfoundland (the worst roads in Canada in my opinion) with this rig with no interior damage and minimal cargo rearrangement.

I have a very slightly used Blue Ox for sale and I’m motivated to get it out of the garage.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:35 PM   #30
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[FONT="Arial"]We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with factory solar (52 lb. Lifeline batteries). The tongue weight is 1252 lbs. loaded for a three week trip and with an Andersen hitch (less than 60 lbs.), and about 75% propane and 50% water. Add about 7 lbs. for the missing propane. Add 150 lbs. for the missing water, but most of that would be on the axles.

~~
WOW! 420 lb above Airstream's listed tongue weight... I know they have a reputation for understimating tongue weight, but thought they might be mending their ways (I'm only about 40 lb over with full water and propane.)

I'm surprised about the "0 links showing" comment on the Blue Ox.I wouldn't expect it to perform well that way, with almost no freedom of movement for the bar ends. Did you have crazy curvature of the bars at that setting? Mine are a bit more curved than this now, since I'm using the 10th link from the loose end (this photo was day one, at 9 links in)
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:56 PM   #31
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Waveman, I will answer your question. I have a '06 25FB and I have weighed my TW via the scale method I found on the forum. Both times it came in very close to 910 lbs. I have two propane tanks that are usually fullish, two group 24 lead acid batteries and a spare tire too. Almost always travel with empty gray and black tanks and as much as a half tank of fresh water. I am not familiar with your type of hitch. I have an Equalizer and use the 1000 lb bars. This set up works for me and I don't have to crank things down to get the trailer level. Happy with my set up.

Guskmg offered up some interesting ideas but then he was talking about towing a 34 Classic with a slide out. Not sure if this would help you. Finding spring bars with "at least 5 inches of bend" really got me to thinking. Again, don't know your hitch but I don't think it would ever be possible to bend an Equalizer bar 5 inches.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
WOW! 420 lb above Airstream's listed tongue weight... I know they have a reputation for understimating tongue weight, but thought they might be mending their ways (I'm only about 40 lb over with full water and propane.)

I'm surprised about the "0 links showing" comment on the Blue Ox.I wouldn't expect it to perform well that way, with almost no freedom of movement for the bar ends. Did you have crazy curvature of the bars at that setting? Mine are a bit more curved than this now, since I'm using the 10th link from the loose end (this photo was day one, at 9 links in)
DKB_SATX
Your hitch setup looks identical to mine with one exception, my hitch ball is set at the lowest holes. Like I said, sway is not an issue and my rig is level so do you ever get bounce? Such as, encountering a dip and the tongue bounces more than two or three times? I may be overthinking this and it's never dragged chain or anything like that but I'd feel better knowing it's something AS'ers live with or it's something I need to address.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:43 PM   #33
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One bump doesn't give me multiple bounces, but a wavy road or undulating bridge surface can sometimes hit a harmonic that gives more movement on the nth iteration of the road imperfection than on the first.

Overall I'm quite happy with the way the trailer tows with the Blue Ox SwayPro. It had too much vertical motion at the 9th link from the loose end, but tightening up to the 10th settled it down nicely (and results in near-ideal weight returned to the steer-axle in my setup.)

Where you are on the drawbar would depend on the height of your truck and the specific drawbar, but if you have that drawbar and a 2015+ 4x4 F150, I think mine is set right. The Airstream runs level, I get good weight transfer to the steer axle and the compression of the rear suspension means the truck runs more level than when it's unloaded (the F150 having that rake that people spend so much money to hide with "level kits" and such.)
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:31 PM   #34
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One bump doesn't give me multiple bounces, but a wavy road or undulating bridge surface can sometimes hit a harmonic that gives more movement on the nth iteration of the road imperfection than on the first.

Overall I'm quite happy with the way the trailer tows with the Blue Ox SwayPro. It had too much vertical motion at the 9th link from the loose end, but tightening up to the 10th settled it down nicely (and results in near-ideal weight returned to the steer-axle in my setup.)

Where you are on the drawbar would depend on the height of your truck and the specific drawbar, but if you have that drawbar and a 2015+ 4x4 F150, I think mine is set right. The Airstream runs level, I get good weight transfer to the steer axle and the compression of the rear suspension means the truck runs more level than when it's unloaded (the F150 having that rake that people spend so much money to hide with "level kits" and such.)
Thats reassuring...thanks..I'm still on the learning curve. I had no idea the volume of opinions, theories, debates and preferences surrounding hitch setups till getting our AS & joining this forum. It made me question what our dealer sold us cause they put it on & that was that. However, I am happy with it, just seeking other testamonials for peace of mind.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:18 PM   #35
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Waveman, I will answer your question. I have a '06 25FB and I have weighed my TW via the scale method I found on the forum. Both times it came in very close to 910 lbs. I have two propane tanks that are usually fullish, two group 24 lead acid batteries and a spare tire too. Almost always travel with empty gray and black tanks and as much as a half tank of fresh water. I am not familiar with your type of hitch. I have an Equalizer and use the 1000 lb bars. This set up works for me and I don't have to crank things down to get the trailer level. Happy with my set up.

Guskmg offered up some interesting ideas but then he was talking about towing a 34 Classic with a slide out. Not sure if this would help you. Finding spring bars with "at least 5 inches of bend" really got me to thinking. Again, don't know your hitch but I don't think it would ever be possible to bend an Equalizer bar 5 inches.


Thanks friend, thinking I'm gonna be blazing my own road like most folks do hahah. I kinda think I'll be runnin light for a bit but full timing it will likely exert its own influence on my desires. But I don't collect stuff generally so there's hope!
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:20 PM   #36
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Thats reassuring...thanks..I'm still on the learning curve. I had no idea the volume of opinions, theories, debates and preferences surrounding hitch setups till getting our AS & joining this forum. It made me question what our dealer sold us cause they put it on & that was that. However, I am happy with it, just seeking other testamonials for peace of mind.


I hear ya, kinda drives me to drink... all the back and forth , to and fro , my brain huts from reading so much contradictory stuff for the past few months lol
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:11 AM   #37
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I'm surprised about the "0 links showing" comment on the Blue Ox.I wouldn't expect it to perform well that way, with almost no freedom of movement for the bar ends. Did you have crazy curvature of the bars at that setting?
I don't recall how much curvature the bars had. I was trying to get within the Ford's weight ratings and the "zero links" setup was the final attempt, achieved with an unorthodox hitching procedure that I will not describe. I don't recommend using "zero links" nor do I think Blue Ox would. I stated it in the interest of full disclosure.

My nearest CAT scale is only 20 minutes away. I visited it several times through this odyssey.

BTW the 1252 tongue weight is from the Airstream production line scale. I asked them to weigh it after some warranty work. When we got home the same day I weighed it with a Sherline scale without unloading anything. The Sherline indicated 1150 lbs. Apparently 102 lbs. or 8.1% light.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:47 PM   #38
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Some of these actually measured tongue weights are pretty frightening. Is there much of a difference between the FC 25 FB and RB models?
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:06 AM   #39
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Finding spring bars with "at least 5 inches of bend" really got me to thinking. Again, don't know your hitch but I don't think it would ever be possible to bend an Equalizer bar 5 inches.
I just wanted to point out that the blue ox bars are round and the Equalizer bars are square. The former are therefore meant to bend and are able to do so but the latter not so much!
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:42 AM   #40
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The 25FB's are generally quite heavy on the front, because of that configuration and that most compartment storage is in the front, so heavy stuff like jacks, leveling boards, etc. are there, unless you put them in the TV.

Another data point: my tongue weight is 925 lbs.
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