New Flying Cloud bugs

[jondrew55]

We did our first trip in our new 2024 FC bunkhouse. We moved to this from a 2021 30’ Globetrotter. Primarily, the GT layout was nice, but having to make the bed up for our daughter every day was a bit of a pain. The long couch/table and wrap around rear couch was interesting, but not necessarily super comfortable for lounging. Anyway, here’s what we’ve found after 1-2 day trip:

First, things that need fixing

1) Stairs will not lock correctly in place when down. They always will fold in on one side or another. I know airstream steps can be finicky. This is our 3rd trailer and the steps are the worst so far.

2) Dent in fridge door. We saw this before delivery and dealer has promised replacement.

3) torn bunk mattress - we did not see this till we got home and went to make up the lower bunk. The mattress is torn at the hinge and also ripped on the side. Requested replacement.

4) There does not seem to be any caulk under the kitchen sink. Water gets trapped under the lip between the sink and the counter. I could fix this myself, but I’ll have them do it.

5) The light by the sewer dumpskeeps coming on by itself. It’s a little push button light that seems to have a life of its own.

6) Whenever I flushed the macerator toilet, fresh water would shoot out a drain tube under the trailer. Turns out there is a valve burried under the cabinets next to the bathroom that was left open by someone, probably part of winterizing. Easy fix and I posted about this in the plumbing forum.

7) The striker plate for the bathroom door popped off. Turns out they used screws smaller than the holes when they installed it. I always have a collection of screws on hand from a kit I bought on Amazon (English, metric and wood screws). Very handy.

So for a new unit, I’d say Airstream gets a B- . Nothing major, but things that should have been caught.

I’ll post
More about the differences between the FC and the GT as we use it more. But for now, I’d say we like it. The bunk is really an essential if you have a couple of kids or bring their friends along. The bottom bed is almost a full queen size and would be fine for two adults. We had a queen in our GT and so far we really like the twins in the FC. Much more standing room in the bedroom.

The bathroom is nice. A single toilet/shower area unlike the separate areas in the GT. The FC shower is big enough. I don’t know if I really care for the sliding plastic shower curtain. Seems kind of flimsy and can be a bit difficult to latch properly. The counter space in the FC is much smaller than the GT. Really not much at all. And other than under the sink, there are no storage cabinets. The macerator toilet gave me pause. We had a vac-u-flush toilet on one of our motor homes and I hated it. This one is not quite as noisy, but it’s just one of those things that can break and put a real dent in your trip. The macerator pump lists for around $500 for the part, so not a. Cheap fox if one goes.

The kitchen counter seemed a bit smaller to me, but my wife things it’s about the same as the GT. I did a bit of cooking and like any trailer, it’s tight quarters, especially when other people are moving around. The 3-burner stove seems about the same as the GT. The convection microwave now bills itself as having an “air fryer” function. Not sure how well that works. The cabinets and overheads are not as deep as the GT, but we still got all our stuff in. Keurig, instapit, Magma cookware set, toaster and all our utensils. Overall, I think there is more storage in the FC than the GT, just not all centrally located. There are several exterior storage areas on the FC, but none of them are as deep as the GT queen was. And two of the areas in the rear have exposed plumbing, so you have to be careful about putting heavy items in there.

The Flying Cloud is a “lower trim level” than the GT. The cabinetry is not as fancy, but actually is quite nice and has slow close hinges. The cushions are not as heavy or firm as the GT, but still very nice and comfortable. The audio system is as annoying to figure out as the one in the GT. There are two zones of sound you can control. Zone one was “off” for some reason and it took 10 minutes of fumbling around to figure out how to turn it on. And once we did get it working the sound was disappointing. And that’s being charitable. We’re just going to add a couple of iPod minis and not even bother wot the built in system.

The two “Connex” brand tvs are absolute garbage. They are smart RVs with a very limited app set. Luckily we had our old Roku boxes. The sound on these tvs is so bad Airstream should be embarrassed. Literally sounds like you’re listening thru a tin can. The bedroom tv has an articulated arm which is good. The living room tv has no arm. Eventually, we’ll replace both TVs. Not really a priority for me since I pretty much watch everything on an iPad.

Anyway, that’s first impressions. We’ve had lots of RVs over the years, some new, some used. This one seems pretty decent so far for brand new. We like the layout a lot. Still miss some features of the GT. Especially the Barcelona Blue interior.

[Hans627]

Thanks for the thorough report. It helps existing owners and perspective owners as well.

Be careful with the steps if they don't latch correctly. Certainly don't want anyone to fall. Would a "Step Stick" help?

[Bearstream01]

Yup. #5 is a well known issue. Over in this thread, posts#34 and 37, markuscis shares his fix…
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-237118-2.html

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Thanks for the thorough report. It helps existing owners and perspective owners as well.

Be careful with the steps if they don't latch correctly. Certainly don't want anyone to fall. Would a "Step Stick" help?

It might help, but since this is brand new I’m going to give Airstream an opportunity to fix it.

Oh, I forgot to mention what a wonder it is to have windows that just open without having to run a credit card thru the gaskets to unstick them. There is an updated bathroom exhaust fan too. I’ll have to see how long the foam gasket lasts on this one.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by Bearstream01

Yup. #5 is a well known issue. Over in this thread, posts#34 and 37, markuscis shares his fix…
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-237118-2.html

Looks like a cut the wire and add a separate switch fix.

[Saluda372]

Enjoy the unit.

[SpikePoet]

It's always baffling that new units can get out of the factory for delivery to a customer with such obvious flaws. We had a few on our 2021 FC RBT as well. JC was good with repairs if you can be patient with the advance time to get in. For a very ignorant new owner as I was, I'm a little glad I had a few things to motivate me to learn and read the Forums. (I'm still largely ignorant but I've learned to hide it more effectively.) I trust you'll get satisfactory results from JC service. Safe Travels.
Spike

[Rusty B]

What the factory misses, the dealer is supposed to catch, that is the reason for the weeks between signing and delivery -- also the walk thru is supposed to catch things and get fixed right there. -- Dealers need to step up, and then if they are flooded with pickups, they need to complain to the factory for passing on the QA function to the dealers
This happens in many assy lines, -- the line keeps moving with the attitude of "it will be picked up later" -- but do NOT stop the line -- especially when they are "pumping them out" to meet demand --

[superChop]

I remember hearing from a former tech at AS HQ at the Int’l Rally in Doswell, that AS pays a third party company to monitor these forums and provide input to the factory.

Anyone think we will ever receive a response from AS to these regular posts on poor quality of the delivered AS products? Seems like a semi-annual report from VP of Mfg, on problems and their corrective actions and the % of trailers impacted by these defects would be a welcome change in behavior. Let’s call this idea, “Voice of the Customer”!

What is most surprising is poor TV’s and poor sound since these products are so numerous and inexpensive these days! AS VP of Supply Chain ought to find a better supplier to impress rather than depress customers. Does anyone have a friend that has another brand with a great TV from the manufacturer? This issue is not rocket science. Find the best product and put it in AS’s!

Ripped mattress - please tell me that could not be detected during assembly of the trailer?

I have watched videos on the AS assembly line and they have a final inspection before signing off on it and then placing in transportation cycle to the dealer. Seems like ripped mattresses would be something I would check as a final inspector?

Just watched a KYD YouTube video on front end separation repair at Vinnie’s near Sacramento. IF the factory had provided a better, stronger connection to the frame, this problem could be avoided. It looked like a multi-thousand dollar repair for Marc & Trish’s newer AS (Globe Trotter?)!

Most people that spend big bucks for a new AS, expect as close to perfection as possible. Perhaps we all just force the issue by demanding 30% off MSRP (due to perceived quality defects), vice the current 20% off that is being offered by many dealers. Another idea - Include a contingency fee of $2,000 payable to the dealer if everything works OK on the new trailer. Or have the fee cover ALL defects at $500 each and FREE repair.

Reading reports like this on defects on new AS’s discourage me from selling our 1964 Overlander and purchasing/ordering a new 30’ RBT, Lift Kit, International, with an MSRP at about $142K, before 20% discount. IF we go this route, does anyone know of a dealer in the southeast that offers a refundable deposit when ordering new AS’s?

Thank you for this post! Writing this response was therapeutic!

[Life is a Highway]

Get a 6 month out appointment at JC make your list and get it all serviced
Maybe not a good idea to use the steps as the inside hidden frame bolt may be coming loose.
Suggest you get a sturdy folding step stool until the repair

[gypsydad]

Thanks for the update on your new model. We appreciated the extra space and storage including storage access inside, moving from Queen to Twins also. We were lucky our last 2 new AS's did not have any major issues...we have gone to Jackson couple times, and installed a window/porthole in the bathroom door, had a big dent taken out, among other enhancements...long drive for you to get up there to Jackson from FL; same for us. Seems your pretty handy and have taken care of the other start up issues which is great.

As for the TV sound system; we upgraded to a 38" Samsung up front and I recently installed a BoseII soundbar which is amazing. They are on sale a few places now for $175ish. Installing the new larger TV was not that difficult, and was able to use existing mounts; just had to do some minor adjustments, including moving the mounting block on the wall above the lounge over a bit. Sounds like your going to be fine!

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

It might help, but since this is brand new I’m going to give Airstream an opportunity to fix it.

Oh, I forgot to mention what a wonder it is to have windows that just open without having to run a credit card thru the gaskets to unstick them. There is an updated bathroom exhaust fan too. I’ll have to see how long the foam gasket lasts on this one.

Has the seal changed to eliminate the credit card routine for the windows? Tell me more!

Thx.

[jondrew55]

I’m guess it has not, Mine just has not had time to properly age. I’ll bet it starts sticking after a summer in floridas heat

Originally Posted by Hans627

Has the seal changed to eliminate the credit card routine for the windows? Tell me more!

Thx.

[ndfan77]

We have a 2024 FC 27FBT bought in Dec that we still haven't been out in yet (hoping to do that next week). Hopefully we've had our last freezing temps (in WV) last week.

Originally Posted by jondrew55

1) Stairs will not lock correctly in place when down. They always will fold in on one side or another. I know airstream steps can be finicky. This is our 3rd trailer and the steps are the worst so far.

Our stairs have this problem too. When I searched this subject a couple months ago I couldn't find much, so I wasn't thinking it was a systemic issue. It is something I'd rather let the dealer handle, but the dealer we purchased from is a five hour drive. We're currently working around it by using a couple of small wood clamps on both support braces to keep them locked in the retaining notches. (I wish I'd taken a picture.)

I'd very much love to hear how you progress with this (including part numbers if your dealer has to replace something)

Originally Posted by jondrew55

5) The light by the sewer dumpskeeps coming on by itself. It’s a little push button light that seems to have a life of its own.

Have this problem too. The fix that someone else posted a link for includes a reference to a replacement light that (by my measurement), isn't an exact fit. When I pulled the OEM light out and measured the hole with digital calipers I got .77", and the light assembly they linked to (which I bought and also measured with digital calipers) has an O.D. of .71" around the rubber grommet that needs to seat snuggly in the hole. So I'm still scratching my head as to the best way to fix it... (Some have just decided they don't need the light and cut the power lead -- but that's not me.)

Originally Posted by jondrew55

6) Whenever I flushed the macerator toilet, fresh water would shoot out a drain tube under the trailer. Turns out there is a valve burried under the cabinets next to the bathroom that was left open by someone, probably part of winterizing. Easy fix and I posted about this in the plumbing forum.

I think I have this problem too. Couldn't find your plumbing post with more info. Can you share a link?

Originally Posted by jondrew55

The two “Connex” brand tvs are absolute garbage. They are smart RVs with a very limited app set. Luckily we had our old Roku boxes. The sound on these tvs is so bad Airstream should be embarrassed. Literally sounds like you’re listening thru a tin can. The bedroom tv has an articulated arm which is good. The living room tv has no arm. Eventually, we’ll replace both TVs. Not really a priority for me since I pretty much watch everything on an iPad.

Absolutely agree. Bought this articulating arm to replace the stationary mount. Also cut a bigger piece of 3/4" plywood (7" x 7") to use in place of the 6" x 7" x 3/4" particle board that the original mount was fastened too (drilled the same for mounting so I wouldn't need to drill more holes in the refrigerator cabinet wall). I wanted to be able to restore the original mount down the road, if needed.

This is still a work in progress. I'm currently trying to figure out how to get a soundbar cleanly mounted below the TV.

Originally Posted by jondrew55

So for a new unit, I’d say Airstream gets a B- . Nothing major, but things that should have been caught.

Yeah, I've been pretty disgusted with the quality of workmanship I've found pretty much every time I get into an area that isn't in "plain view". When I took the wardrobe closet apart (in order to install a built-in Hughes Power Watchdog), I found the wooden cross member had split (and hardly functional for support) that the back panel screws into. It looked like it split because they hadn't drilled pilot holes.

Under the trailer there were hose clamps just dangling because the screw head had sheared off (and I'm guess the tech just said "screw it", the LPG line will be fine without one support clamp).

Behind the load center I noticed a white wire just dangling (that's part of a multi-wire harness). I'm guessing it's an unneeded ground, but just letting it dangle...? And, one of the four screws in the cover for the load center was missing a retaining clip (so the screw could fall out and get lost if you weren't being careful). Fotunately WFCO was willing to ship me one gratis.

The overhead light for the table flickers after it's been on for a bit. My dealer was good enough to order a new one and is shipping it to me.

And speaking of the Connex TV's being garbage. The main (27") unit had a couple (entire) columns of pixels go dead. My dealer was also good enough to get a replacement ordered (after I sent pictures with the dead pixel columns).

And, one of the wardrobe closet doors was badly warped (stuck out at the top "seam" about an inch from the other door). My dealer had already ordered a replacement when we picked up the trailer, but it hadn't arrived yet. So they shipped it to me when they got it and I had to install it myself. The handle holes had to be drilled, and the center hinge didn't line up so it had to be moved, redrilled (very nerve wracking!) and the old holes filled. Still haven't got the paint matched exactly...

There's probably one or two more things I'm not remembering.

[BGClassic]

Originally Posted by ndfan77

We have a 2024 FC 27FBT bought in Dec that we still haven't been out in yet (hoping to do that next week). Hopefully we've had our last freezing temps (in WV) last week.

Under the trailer there were hose clamps just dangling because the screw head had sheared off (and I'm guess the tech just said "screw it", the LPG line will be fine without one support clamp).

There's probably one or two more things I'm not remembering.

Sorry you have had this experience. We went through our own list of problems. Take lots of pics, and document everything by time and date. Make an appointment at JC and let them repair it. Watch them like a hawk.

I agree on the LP hose clamps. I made our dealer in NJ add two clamps to ours before we departed.

Good luck!

[kb0zke]

"the line keeps moving with the attitude of "it will be picked up later" -- but do NOT stop the line". More than 10 years ago we toured the Airstream factory and the DRV factory. Each had some good ideas and some not-so-good ideas. The person who took us on the DRV tour made a point of telling us that any worker could order the line stopped to fix a problem if he felt it needed to be done right then. Otherwise he put a big red X on the trailer and a note saying what the problem was. That was before Thor, so not sure how it goes now.


Our new-to-us 2021 FC 30 RBQ has surprisingly few issues. Yes, there are still hidden spots with sawdust, metal shavings, etc. but that isn't a big deal for me. As I do stuff I can clean up their mess along with my mess. We're going to be at the factory in August to have the 3" lift installed and I have a very short list of other things for them to take care of.

[ndfan77]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

5) The light by the sewer dumpskeeps coming on by itself. It’s a little push button light that seems to have a life of its own.

I posted my remedy for the "sewer light with a mind of it's own" problem on one of the threads that discusses it specifically.

Another thread (here) also talks about the same problem, but suggests using a different light and switch.

[sfranklin]

As an owner of a 2024, i question why anyone would try to fix a light/switch that is covered under warranty. It's not that I'm not able to fix things, maybe I'm just old and jaded, but if I pay for something that comes with a warranty, I'd expect the manufacturer to repair or replace it. If it fell outside the warranty, I'd gladly deal with it then.

Stairs are kinda wonky, but I've had these dual folding stairs now for 3 years, 2 on my 21 and nearly 1 on my 24. I do plan on buying the NOX brace.

https://www.nolox.shop/product/stepb...=false&q=false

As for sound, I completely agree. It pretty bad, however I use the bluetooth to connect to the built in trailer audio and though it's nowhere near home theater or high end audio quality as I have in my house, I find it to be pretty good all things considered, but from the TV directly, nope and yes, I too use a Roku. I hate integrated apps on a TV. Not sure why, just do.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by sfranklin

Stairs are kinda wonky, but I've had these dual folding stairs now for 3 years, 2 on my 21 and nearly 1 on my 24. I do plan on buying the NOX brace.

https://www.nolox.shop/product/stepb...=false&q=false

A 28 inch water key from any hardware store does exactly the same thing for about $15. Here is one on Amazon for about $30. The water key is what I use.

https://www.amazon.com/HOMESTEAD-28-...hlbWF0aWM&th=1

[ndfan77]

Originally Posted by sfranklin

As an owner of a 2024, i question why anyone would try to fix a light/switch that is covered under warranty. It's not that I'm not able to fix things, maybe I'm just old and jaded, but if I pay for something that comes with a warranty, I'd expect the manufacturer to repair or replace it. If it fell outside the warranty, I'd gladly deal with it then.

Stairs are kinda wonky, but I've had these dual folding stairs now for 3 years, 2 on my 21 and nearly 1 on my 24. I do plan on buying the NOX brace.

https://www.nolox.shop/product/stepb...=false&q=false

As for sound, I completely agree. It pretty bad, however I use the bluetooth to connect to the built in trailer audio and though it's nowhere near home theater or high end audio quality as I have in my house, I find it to be pretty good all things considered, but from the TV directly, nope and yes, I too use a Roku. I hate integrated apps on a TV. Not sure why, just do.

Thanks for the link for the LOX brace and sound suggestions.

TV/sound
Whenever I've tried to use bluetooth audio with video I've had sync issues (due to latency in the bluetooth stream). I'll have to try using the JBL with bluetooth, but suspect it may not sit well to have the sound coming from behind me instead of the video source. I believe the Connex/Furion TV's are running a variation of Android TV with a 3rd party app store. They have a woefully underpowered CPU (which contributes to an extremely poor UX) -- but, amazingly, they actually are capable of direct playing AV1 content. Most of the content we watch was purchased on DVD (e.g. entire series of X, Y, Z) and then scraped/transcoded to MKV files and stored on a NAS at home. Our total TV show library is ~3TB. So my solution is to put a high-powered (12V) Android TV in the BYOD cabinet with a 4TB SSD attached that contains a synchronized copy of the TV show media library, running the Android TV version of Emby Server. The same unit in the BYOD cabinet also runs the Emby client for Android TV, so we have the choice of watching video directly from the BYOD Android TV device through the HDMI splitter, or watching it locally through the Emby client available in the App store for the Connex TV's (this lets each TV play content independently). A 3rd choice (with a better UX) would be to hang another Google TV dongle from the back of either TV on the 2nd or 3rd HDMI ports. I also have Roku, but use it far less than Google TV. There are rumors that Roku is about to get heavy handed with advertising. (Google TV has their own issues with advertising, but you can disable most of it in settings.) Roku also doesn't direct play AV1 content very well (and as I mentioned, most of my video library is AV1).

DIY electrical work
In a previous life (before getting into advanced IT data center infrastructure) I did some pretty technical (flight test) avionics work for ten years. When it comes to wiring/electrical issues, I trust my skills and my desire to do a job right far more than the dealer (or manufacturer)! And I know other contributors on this forum have similar skills and/or points of view.

This aspect alone is usually sufficient for me (unless there's an overriding cost component) -- but if it wasn't, my dealer is five hours one way. Towing a trailer ten hours total to have something fixed that I can do myself in one or two hours, with a total parts cost of < $20 -- wouldn't seem to characterize a smart person (but might characterize someone who liked to spend time towing).

And if either of those reasons weren't enough, this particular light has a pretty convincing bill of indictment that would lead the willing to believe it has a design problem. Taking it back to the dealer to have it replaced with the same model seems like it comes close to what most would consider insanity...

Unstable Stairs
Attached are pictures of my "quick-n-dirty" workaround. I happened to already have these clamps ($19/pair), but wasn't particularly fond of them so they were an appealing candidate for this use case.